McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[The GAA]

well you're a great fella then and the rest of us are good for nothing?

You love that big high horse of yours, don't you?

Would you do it then if you were asked? As for a high horse. If mine's high, one would need to scale Mt Everest to get near yours.

I don't recall ever claiming to be better than the other posters on the board - or maybe you're just a better gael than those posting on this thread?
There's a difference between that and being able to consolidate an opinion with logic, reason and fact.

I most certainly would do any of those jobs if required. it wouldn't be a major leap given the jobs i do currently and those i've done in the past

[The GAA]

I don't for one second believe there will be any problem finding competent people to fill the county board posts

I wonder how many people contested the CCC1 & CCC2 officer positions over the last five years in Cork?

I genuinely don't know, but I'd imagine the answer is zero

If so - do you still believe your comment above?

Heffo -

There is very often - rightly or wrongly - a presumption of closed shop on these posts and good people don't apply for that reason.

If the situation arises in cork and the call goes out amongst the clubs for people to step up, i have not doubt the posts will be filled with ease.
the resolve of clubs to fill posts will only be strengthened by questions that they can't

[dowling]

I got this from rebelgaa, but apparently all of these are confirmed, so I'll ask once again what are some anti-player posters arguing, it's a simple question and should be easy to answer?

Clubs that Voted in Favour of the 08 Players

Nemo,
Dillons,
Netowndhandrum,
Dripsey.
Grenagh (unanimous)
Argideen Rangers
Killbritian
Courcey Rovers
Valley Rovers
Liscarrol (40 to 2)
Lismire
Castlemagner
Dromtariffe (all unanimous)
Youghal 37-13
Clann na nGael voted in favour of the two motions.
Cill na Martra (unanimous)
Naomh Abán 19-1 pro-players
Barryroe (unanimous)
Clann na nGael
Cullen (unanimous)
Aghinagh in favour, only opposed by 1
Na Piarsigh (unanimous)
Castlemartyr pro-08 panel as well
Ballymartle 70 odd to 1 in favour of players.
Banteer 58 - 0 for players.
Lyre 58-0
Freemount
Millstreet 49-1
Macroom
Ballincollig

When you say these clubs have been confirmed do you mean this is the total number of clubs who have voted? At the moment it's not a huge number so I assume there will be some activity between now and Sunday.

Is there any confirmation of clubs who wont be voting or attending Sunday's meeting? As there was almost 100 who didn't attend the last meeting there's a significant number to be considered there also.

[Onlooker]

There does not seem to be much talk about next Sunday's protest march to the Fermanagh game.  Does anyone know if if is still going ahead?.

[theskull1]

"anti players" as you call them is not a very useful term Zulu.

Personally I've argued all along that rather than work towards solutions the players took their ball away knowing full well that the lazy masses would eventually be convinced to start making their voices heard. A well understood tactic to achieve their own self interested goals, but IMO opinion have had no consideration to what the fallout will be as characters get assassinated left right and centre. I have always stated that there are wrongs on both sides, but the militant demeneor and intransigence of the players to get what they want will do no good in the long run. You may say that it needed to be done such was the autocracy that existed, but that doesn't resolve why so many clubs allowed it to become that way (if indeed it is an autocracy). That is the real problem. So will there be the energy and drive to solve it by the new administrators and will they be leaders or will they be lead (by you know who)? After the war is one and VC day is celebrated the releaity will dawn and I don't believe that Cork will be the better for this revolution if the players get their way at the end of it. I'm not even going to bring in what I feel it will do for the rest of the GAA...thats for another day

[The GAA]

If you concur with redandgreensniper's synopsis it can only be difficult to have sympathy for the players' situation and the action they have taken.

[Zulu]

There does not seem to be much talk about next Sunday's protest march to the Fermanagh game.  Does anyone know if if is still going ahead?.

I haven't heard anything to say it has been called off, as far as I know they're expecting a big crowd.

When you say these clubs have been confirmed do you mean this is the total number of clubs who have voted? At the moment it's not a huge number so I assume there will be some activity between now and Sunday.

Is there any confirmation of clubs who wont be voting or attending Sunday's meeting? As there was almost 100 who didn't attend the last meeting there's a significant number to be considered there also.

That lists is of clubs who have held their meetings and whose outcomes are known, some clubs like the Barrs aren't going to vote at all apparently. But as of yet no club has voted against the players and none of the clubs seem to be split with all of them giving a resounding vote of support for the players.

Why aren't any anti-player posters able to say whay their position is anymore? There'll be no clearout of the CB after this, FM might have to go but few if any will need to step down. The outcome of this should be to warn CB men that their role is to serve the GAA not their own agenda's and for that the players deserve the gratitude of all GAA folk.

"anti players" as you call them is not a very useful term Zulu.

I only used that term because some posters were getting pedantic over being labled "pro-CB" or "pro-Gerald", I surely haven't being arguing with "pro-player" posters all this time have I?

Personally I've argued all along that rather than work towards solutions the players took their ball away knowing full well that the lazy masses would eventually be convinced to start making their voices heard. A well understood tactic to achieve their own self interested goals, but IMO opinion have had no consideration to what the fallout will be as characters get assassinated left right and centre.

The CB started this in pursuit of their own self interests, with no regard of what forcing the players back into a corner for the second time in 12 months would result in. If they simply didn't reappoint a man no sensible person would appoint as Cork manager then this would have been avoided. But they didn't and now after all this time and bother they are going to lose because the GAA is built on and for the players.

[theskull1]

Personally I've argued all along that rather than work towards solutions the players took their ball away knowing full well that the lazy masses would eventually be convinced to start making their voices heard. A well understood tactic to achieve their own self interested goals, but IMO opinion have had no consideration to what the fallout will be as characters get assassinated left right and centre.

The CB started this in pursuit of their own self interests, with no regard of what forcing the players back into a corner for the second time in 12 months would result in. If they simply didn't reappoint a man no sensible person would appoint as Cork manager then this would have been avoided. But they didn't and now after all this time and bother they are going to lose because the GAA is built on and for the players.

But not to pander to them. That is what this group of players want. They know what "they" want and everybody better make sure they jump through hoops to deliver for them. Maybe administrators have had enough of that attitude. I know I would.

[dowling]

As a new contributor to this site let me state my knowledge of the 'inner workings' of Cork GAA is little. However there are many facets to what is happening in Cork that are common to all counties. And every county board makes decisions from time to time which don't always have universal support. Sometimes those decisions work out and other times they don't. But if every time a board wanted to take a decision that might be perceived as controversial it had to go round consulting others to get the go ahead there would be no point to that board.
And this is an underlying theme to what people are saying here. Others are arguing the hurlers' actions were the only way to deal with specific problems as they saw them. So does that mean all the rules, procedures and mechanisms of the Association are thrown out the window? This is what worries an element of contributors. And because they are derided for having limited knowledge of the workings in Cork doesn't undermine their case.
If the Clonye club can bring something to the table in an 'official way' why were the players, or one or two of them, not able to bring something through their club some time ago? Or even why didn't one of the posters to this site do it?
No one would deny that boards can be a bit power crazy at times, especially if they've been around some time but maybe there's a similar situation with the players here. Because they've been together for some time could they be thinking they know better than the rest of us as if no one else has ever played hurling or been involved in decision making? And you really have to wonder how far the arm of the GPA reaches into this because of the type of action the players have taken and the upcoming press conference. Very GPA like. Or am I just being foolish to think the GPA are advising the players and that the GPA's concern is not with Cork hurling?
There's  continual reference to this 'power struggle' and no doubt there is one. But while I can go through the constitution and find defined roles for committee members I can find no reference to player power. Or am I missing something? But if players want power, and of course they do as being able to determine who will not be manager is having power, will they take the power of going to mundane meetings that go along with the power of board members? Or is it just power without responsibility and accountability?
Great players have lost some respect of posters here because of bullying tactics used against Teddy Holland last year and Gerald McCarthy this year and it's a pity. We can all be consumed at winning but not at the public humiliation of individuals. And when we lose we can always find someone else to blame and not recognise our own failings.
There's no doubt the Cork team of last year still had something to offer but in all honesty regardless of training techniques or the style of play they weren't the team they were the previous years and no manager would make them so. And that has to be faced up to by posters on here instead of blindly putting all the blame at G MCC's door.
Like them or loathe them committees at different levels are a necessity to the GAA and no individual worth his/her salt is going to go on a committee if the decision making lies somewhere else but they're loaded with the responsibility and accountability for what someone else does. And that's what a large number of people are fearful of and why they'll back the Cork county board on this issue although oppose it on others. 

Here's my first post Zulu. Don't think it's that hard to understand.

[dowling]

You're right to be confused Oman and this is part of the problem and what pro posters are missing. Last year's strike resolution benefited the players at the time in that what they went on strike to achieve they did, irrespective of the 'overall settlement'. This year the 2008 panel obviously thought it wouldn't be too much bother to repeat the feat and so it was we're not playing under Gerald. But the lie of the land has proved different this year and unlike Teddy Holland Gerald decided to have his say. Not only that a new panel was assembled. Whereas last year the players could say that there was nothing personal with Teddy they couldn't this time and when Gerald decided to have a say in all this the 2008 players' remarks had to become more personalised to defend their position. I don't doubt that some of the 2008 panel felt uncomfortable about this though not them all. And then once it wasn't easy to shift Gerald the focus went onto procedures, the county board and primarily onto Frank. Don't forget about the focus of this being for the good of Cork hurling and Cork GAA in particular. And not only has the point of 'attack' changed but so has the intensity. All this has been reflected on this board. Now like last year we're faced with a public demonstration which will no doubt be well attended simply because Cork is split down the middle on this. The difference with this demonstration is that there is an open bitterness because of the prolonged nature which wasn't there last year. Whatever resolution is found, if indeed one is, it's going to be hollow as there's going to be a bitter taste left at the end. Where the 2008 panel has taken this dispute is at loggerheads with their claim to be acting for the good of Cork GAA. Maybe if some of them had thought a bit more about where this could end up and not be influenced by higher profile players which of course some must have been then this situation might not have been allowed to get this far. Even if Gerald were to stand down now or be sacked his personal assasination following on from Teddy Holland's, two honourable men, will not bring a close to this. Only the players now pulling back can set the groundwork for closure.
If a knowledgeable Corkman said to me Gerald shouldn't be manager I don't see why I wouldn't accept that. But neither can I accept players becoming the authority on any issue in any county, that's the committee's job and if the membership think they're doing a bad job but can't make them accountable that's a reflection of a weak membership.
As for Frank Murphy here's a wee quote from Zulu, one of the pro side who didn't give me shit as a newbie.
"...what I'm trying to say is that although many in Cork want to see the back of Frank, he is also a very capable GAA politician and gives Cork great clout on a national level and despite his faults there probably isn't anyone in Cork who would be even close to being able to replace him as secretary at the moment."

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

[Zulu]

Attempting to re-write history are we dowling, first off that isn't your first post evidenced by this...

So I did try to keep my comments measured and diplomatic. And to be fair I've met with a fairly moderate response.

Secondly your original point if I remember correctly was that the GPA were pulling the strings in this debate, afterwards you agreed with Sligeach's post that democracy is always manipulated by those in power but that was just life. Two things that I strongly disagree with so it is maybe yourself who's having problems understanding what you actually think, but to clear things up you could tell us slow learners what exactly you're arguing?

But not to pander to them. That is what this group of players want. They know what "they" want and everybody better make sure they jump through hoops to deliver for them. Maybe administrators have had enough of that attitude. I know I would.

Skull what do the players want, a top class backroom team, someone other than a man they can't get on with as manger? All reasonable requests IMO, especially when it is the players who have to take to the field and perform.

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

And what is your point dowling, of course I can accept FM has done much for Cork GAA but that doesn't lessen his negative influence when dealing with these players and IMO it is best for all concerned if he goes now.

[dowling]

Attempting to re-write history are we dowling, first off that isn't your first post evidenced by this...

So I did try to keep my comments measured and diplomatic. And to be fair I've met with a fairly moderate response.

Secondly your original point if I remember correctly was that the GPA were pulling the strings in this debate, afterwards you agreed with Sligeach's post that democracy is always manipulated by those in power but that was just life. Two things that I strongly disagree with so it is maybe yourself who's having problems understanding what you actually think, but to clear things up you could tell us slow learners what exactly you're arguing?

But not to pander to them. That is what this group of players want. They know what "they" want and everybody better make sure they jump through hoops to deliver for them. Maybe administrators have had enough of that attitude. I know I would.

Skull what do the players want, a top class backroom team, someone other than a man they can't get on with as manger? All reasonable requests IMO, especially when it is the players who have to take to the field and perform.

And here's another one. Notice the bit at the bottom, your bit.

It's amazing what you find when you trawl.

And what is your point dowling, of course I can accept FM has done much for Cork GAA but that doesn't lessen his negative influence when dealing with these players and IMO it is best for all concerned if he goes now.

Zulu I made a slight mistake putting those quotes on in that I quoted a wrong one then had them in the wrong order but hopefully this is rectified and the one on as my first post is indeed my first post. 
And read what I say about the GPA.
I'm beginning to think I was too kind to you in my other post.

[RedandGreenSniper]

If you concur with redandgreensniper's synopsis it can only be difficult to have sympathy for the players' situation and the action they have taken.

I presume you mean its NOT difficult to have sympathy? The players are not without flaw either and I'm still not 100% certain about their motives and I don't agree with the way they have went about things but if their actions improve things, then that mightn't be a bad thing. But everyone will be watching what happens in the future in the massive hope that what has happened in Cork this year was a one off because of a very unique situation and not the opening of a can of worms which may have serious implications for the future of the whole organisation. I hope but I can't say I'm certain.

[The GAA]

I appreciate you are not setting out a justifcation for the route that the playrs took and that the players are blameless - certainly i don't believe that they are.

however, given the circumstances i believe the players had to make the choices they did if they really wanted to get action. eggs and omlettes and all that.

i have great admiration for their resolve in the face of consistent abuse of them personally and as a group

[RedandGreenSniper]

On what do you believe the players were to blame GAA, out of curiousity?