McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[realrebel]

yes 90% of the country are stupid and dont have a clue

[Reillers]

And when that 10% is a lot of Cork fans..

[INDIANA]

Not rehashing Reillers. i've read back through the thread and I've answered them. Most of us learned to read at school, you must have been out sick that day.
thread has really run its course, you have your opinion, other people have theirs. No-one cares anymore Reillers, there is nothing on this thread that hasn't been said before.

[Reillers]

You haven't and the fact that you wont tells me you don't have the answers.

[INDIANA]

As Tatler said many moons ago, those that live in Reillersland will cetainly agree with you!

[Reillers]

I'll ask you again..

"What about the trainers who've been with the players for a good while now in different circumstances, what about them, they are training them now. What's your excuse for them doing that, I've no doubt you have one..isn't it possible that the players aren't as awful like you try to make them out to be?

Or why you believe your source (which most be some hell of a source to trump Allen and O Grady and the trainers) is to believed over O Grady and Allen,
And why is it that everyone who has come out in support of the players are biased and friends with them or whatever but when the "all knowing" media comes out on side with McCarthy they're right and not biased.
The fact that there's always some excuse or reasoning when it comes to backing the players but it's fact and right backing McCarthy.

You say that an article written by one of the most respected men in hurling, never mind Cork, and from Allen as well, isn't enough..what is, for someone to agree with your sources stories?"

If you have answered all of these points I would like you to show me where.

[realrebel]

reillers
might it be the fact that they are the only ones willing to train them

[dowling]

As a new contributor to this site let me state my knowledge of the 'inner workings' of Cork GAA is little. However there are many facets to what is happening in Cork that are common to all counties. And every county board makes decisions from time to time which don't always have universal support. Sometimes those decisions work out and other times they don't. But if every time a board wanted to take a decision that might be perceived as controversial it had to go round consulting others to get the go ahead there would be no point to that board.
And this is an underlying theme to what people are saying here. Others are arguing the hurlers' actions were the only way to deal with specific problems as they saw them. So does that mean all the rules, procedures and mechanisms of the Association are thrown out the window? This is what worries an element of contributors. And because they are derided for having limited knowledge of the workings in Cork doesn't undermine their case.
If the Clonye club can bring something to the table in an 'official way' why were the players, or one or two of them, not able to bring something through their club some time ago? Or even why didn't one of the posters to this site do it?
No one would deny that boards can be a bit power crazy at times, especially if they've been around some time but maybe there's a similar situation with the players here. Because they've been together for some time could they be thinking they know better than the rest of us as if no one else has ever played hurling or been involved in decision making? And you really have to wonder how far the arm of the GPA reaches into this because of the type of action the players have taken and the upcoming press conference. Very GPA like. Or am I just being foolish to think the GPA are advising the players and that the GPA's concern is not with Cork hurling?
There's  continual reference to this 'power struggle' and no doubt there is one. But while I can go through the constitution and find defined roles for committee members I can find no reference to player power. Or am I missing something? But if players want power, and of course they do as being able to determine who will not be manager is having power, will they take the power of going to mundane meetings that go along with the power of board members? Or is it just power without responsibility and accountability?
Great players have lost some respect of posters here because of bullying tactics used against Teddy Holland last year and Gerald McCarthy this year and it's a pity. We can all be consumed at winning but not at the public humiliation of individuals. And when we lose we can always find someone else to blame and not recognise our own failings.
There's no doubt the Cork team of last year still had something to offer but in all honesty regardless of training techniques or the style of play they weren't the team they were the previous years and no manager would make them so. And that has to be faced up to by posters on here instead of blindly putting all the blame at G MCC's door.
Like them or loathe them committees at different levels are a necessity to the GAA and no individual worth his/her salt is going to go on a committee if the decision making lies somewhere else but they're loaded with the responsibility and accountability for what someone else does. And that's what a large number of people are fearful of and why they'll back the Cork county board on this issue although oppose it on others. 

[passedit]

And this is an underlying theme to what people are saying here. Others are arguing the hurlers' actions were the only way to deal with specific problems as they saw them. So does that mean all the rules, procedures and mechanisms of the Association are thrown out the window?

I vaguely recall a rule being brought in to limit the empire building in county boards to five years. The result of this appears to be that the worst offenders now have PAID jobs for life and are even more unassailable in their positions. Don't give me any shit about democracy when this row was fabricated by someone who has been in position since 1972 and is fighting a battle he lost in 2002.

ps Orangeman, good to see even you have rare moments of clarity, pity you ruined it with the use of the royal we.

[Reillers]

reillers
might it be the fact that they are the only ones willing to train them

They wouldn't train them if they wanted to, they wouldn't give up time they had just gotten back if they didn't want to. They've no commitment, no reason at all to train them if they didn't want to. They obviously support the players. They've worked under previous managers and Gerald and with the players, and with them recently. According to Indianna O Grady worked with them a long time ago and they've changed since according to the man with the source, so his view doesn't count and Allen was just a meer selector and not really a manager, so he'd no control over the players and was entirely useless of controlling things so his opinion doesn't count. But these lads have worked with them through the years and they in the end have come out on side with the players it seems. There most be a reason for that, maybe they are not as bad as the likes of Indiana are trying to make out. 

What do you think will happen with the fans.

You've got to know that the likely hood is that this will get very messy, very fast, more so then it is now. I hate being called second best, it's the same for every Cork fan I know. It isn't enough to just have a team for the sake of it. Not for Cork.

There's a long tradition in Cork of winning AI's. Now irrespective of what's happened in the past or whether you think the 08 team could win an AI and such. Though we both know this isn't about not being able to win an AI, it's about being walked on by the board again and we both know it.

What do you think will happen because the fans. If he had as much support as he thinks he had people would have turned up for the WIT game, it was their chance to show him they cared, even if the weather was bad and the attendance was shocking.

The fans will turn on McCarthy, it's only a matter of time. Because like I said being called second best is a bitter pill to swallow for a Cork fan but loosing to a team like Dublin, probably getting trashed by them, how quickly will people change their minds on this.
And after what will probably be a humiliation by Tipp.The thought would make you sick to the stomach.

Don't say people wont care because they're only young lads and they want to wear the jersey and they're doing their best and people will see that, because you know they wont. It's only a matter of time before McCarthy's head is called for.

You are against the players on this one, I respect that. I do. But do you honestly think McCarthy's a good manager, irrespective of the stance of him as a player and in this fight. Facts down on paper, do you think he is good enough to manage Cork, do you think he should have been reappointed?

Because most pro McCarthy people I've met while they may support him against the players, still think he's a bad manager.

What do you think?

[Zulu]

Welcome aboard dowling and a good, fairly reasonable first post but I'd have to take issue with some of your points. You said...

But if players want power, and of course they do as being able to determine who will not be manager is having power, will they take the power of going to mundane meetings that go along with the power of board members? Or is it just power without responsibility and accountability?

Do you not think the CB have done exactly that, they didn't allow club delegates go back to their clubs over Gerald's reappointment or the change to selector issue last year, so what we got was the opinion of delegates who had little time to weigh up the pros and cons of the motions rather than the views of the clubs after a period of retrospection. And if the CB were acting responsibly they wouldn't have reappointed Gerald, I don't think anyone on this board feels the CB did the right thing in reappointing a less than successful manager who the players didn't get on with.

Your post alludes to the fact that this is the democratic process and we must work within it, other posters are saying something similar and by and large I agree. But when there is gross abuse of that process, as I believe there is here, then I don't think amateur athletes have to accept it with a shrug of the shoulders. IMO the players actions might be the catalyst for real change in Cork and a better and fairer way of doing things. In fact it could be the best thing to happen to Cork in a long time, it might wake up clubs to the reality that they must engage in the running of their own affairs more actively.

[Reillers]

As a new contributor to this site let me state my knowledge of the 'inner workings' of Cork GAA is little. However there are many facets to what is happening in Cork that are common to all counties. And every county board makes decisions from time to time which don't always have universal support. Sometimes those decisions work out and other times they don't. But if every time a board wanted to take a decision that might be perceived as controversial it had to go round consulting others to get the go ahead there would be no point to that board.
And this is an underlying theme to what people are saying here. Others are arguing the hurlers' actions were the only way to deal with specific problems as they saw them. So does that mean all the rules, procedures and mechanisms of the Association are thrown out the window? This is what worries an element of contributors. And because they are derided for having limited knowledge of the workings in Cork doesn't undermine their case.
If the Clonye club can bring something to the table in an 'official way' why were the players, or one or two of them, not able to bring something through their club some time ago? Or even why didn't one of the posters to this site do it? The clubs in large are sick of the players, sick of the fixtures..etc. Clubs at times when it comes don't back the players.
No one would deny that boards can be a bit power crazy at times, all the time for 30 years especially if they've been around some time but maybe there's a similar situation with the players here. Because they've been together for some time could they be thinking they know better than the rest of us as if no one else has ever played hurling or been involved in decision making? And you really have to wonder how far the arm of the GPA oh for the love of God this has got nothing what so ever to do with the GPA reaches into this because of the type of action the players have taken and the upcoming press conference. Very GPA like. Or am I just being foolish to think the GPA are advising the players and that the GPA's concern is not with Cork hurling?
There's  continual reference to this 'power struggle' and no doubt there is one. But while I can go through the constitution and find defined roles for committee members I can find no reference to player power. Or am I missing something? But if players want power, and of course they do as being able to determine who will not be manager is having power, will they take the power of going to mundane meetings that go along with the power of board members? Or is it just power without responsibility and accountability? But that's just it, the board don't and haven't for a very long time taken responsiblity or accountability for anything. They have power without the responsibilities of it or accountabilities of it. They didn't leave the club delegates go back to their clubs over his reappointment, and yet people keep on lecturing me anytime I bring it up about this being a democracy.
And this is a matter where the CB want their power back, they lost it all in 02. They were humiliated and since have being trying to get it back.
Great players have lost some respect of posters here because of bullying tactics used against Teddy Holland last year and Gerald McCarthy this year and it's a pity. We can all be consumed at winning but not at the public humiliation of individuals. And when we lose we can always find someone else to blame and not recognise our own failings. As has a great ex player. They, Gerald especially is no innocent vicitm..but that's what the media says so..
There's no doubt the Cork team of last year still had something to offer but in all honesty regardless of training techniques or the style of play they weren't the team they were the previous years and no manager would make them so. And that has to be faced up to by posters on here instead of blindly putting all the blame at G MCC's door. It's not about being able to win an AI, they are not putting the blame of that on McCarthy's door, (even though a lot of it should be there) it is about the fact that after two years, the team has gone backwards, no one has really been brought in except 3 or so players even though there are players there, he has lost the players respect, he's lost the dressing room, the players tell the board all of this and the board reappoint him.That's the problem. This action was done purely in spite of the hurlers, not because they believed that Gerald was the best man for the job but because the players didn't want him. They wanted rid of these players so they can get their power back, and so no one will ever stand up to the dictatorship that is Frank Murphy and co.
Like them or loathe them committees at different levels are a necessity to the GAA and no individual worth his/her salt is going to go on a committee if the decision making lies somewhere else but they're loaded with the responsibility and accountability for what someone else does. And that's what a large number of people are fearful of and why they'll back the Cork county board on this issue although oppose it on others. 

You are painting this situation in black and white and you are making it, breaking it down as simple and easily as possible, but it's not black and white or simple or easy. It's complicated and people outside Cork don't realise just how complicated it is. I understand where you are coming from I do, you have the opinion of a lot of hurling fans out there. And you are trying to make reason here. It's a reasonable response. But the problem is that the board aren't just any board who go on their power trips, they are not reasonable people.

[INDIANA]

its black and white everywhere else except Cork. Cork fall under the umbrella of the Gaa the same as any other county. if you want to apply other rules, form another association, or bring the relevent motions forward To gaa Congress.

[Reillers]

And that's why people struggle to understand it. It's not black and white, never has been and never will be. The reason why all this has happened is simplistic enough but everything else is far from it.

[imtommygunn]

With regard to the board making the club delegates vote on the spot and not go back to get the opinion of their club what would the protocol be in other counties? I was very surprised to hear of this being the case in Cork. I don't know much of the running of county boards but would be surprised if club delegates weren't allowed to go back to their club?