McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[INDIANA]

Its never going to be solved otherwise OM. The whole issue has to go. Its just gone too far now, there is absolutely no way back now. I don't where Cork Gaa is going to end up after this. Shambolic doesn't descibe it. As Breheny said today the fact that the Israelis and Palestinians can sit down and talk doesn't reflect well on any of the parties involved.

[orangeman]

I said it from day one - the players sat out their stall at the start and insisted that they would NEVER play under Mc Carthy leaving themselves no room for negotiation.

I genuinely believe that the 2008 panel did not believe that it would ever come to this and I also believe that they genuinely do want to play hurling and that if they could reset the clock, they would if they could.

As I said last night, Paisley asked for capitulation, photographs, videos of weapons being destroyed etc, then talked about sackcloth and ashes. If the 2008 panel were prepared to accept a little less than complete capitulation, it could have been sorted out a long time ago.

They've now decided to go for broke.

[The GAA]

I said it from day one - the players sat out their stall at the start and insisted that they would NEVER play under Mc Carthy leaving themselves no room for negotiation.

I genuinely believe that the 2008 panel did not believe that it would ever come to this and I also believe that they genuinely do want to play hurling and that if they could reset the clock, they would if they could.

As I said last night, Paisley asked for capitulation, photographs, videos of weapons being destroyed etc, then talked about sackcloth and ashes. If the 2008 panel were prepared to accept a little less than complete capitulation, it could have been sorted out a long time ago.

They've now decided to go for broke.

Is your rehashed and melodramatic commentary on every single development really necessary? seems to be your way of feeling like your contributing when actually all you do is offer ridiculous speculation and hypothetical questions.

[The GAA]

The 2008 have put themselves into a corner now they don't now how to extract themselves

I actually think thats a very valid point. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it on all sides. We now have a number of parties at opposite ends of the debate, none of whom want to be seen giving in and none of them knows what the end game is on this and that includes the players.  It is one unholy shambles.

Have to be honest for the good of Gaa in Cork I think all relevent parties should be taken out of the equation. How about if Frank, Gerald and the 5 main players spokespeople step down as a compromise. This is never going to be solved as long as any one of the three parties remain.
At this stage it doesn't matter who's fault it is, it needs to be sorted. And if that means sacrificing a few egos then so be it.

Once again Indiana....

Why 5? Why not 6 or 11?

[orangeman]

I said it from day one - the players sat out their stall at the start and insisted that they would NEVER play under Mc Carthy leaving themselves no room for negotiation.

I genuinely believe that the 2008 panel did not believe that it would ever come to this and I also believe that they genuinely do want to play hurling and that if they could reset the clock, they would if they could.

As I said last night, Paisley asked for capitulation, photographs, videos of weapons being destroyed etc, then talked about sackcloth and ashes. If the 2008 panel were prepared to accept a little less than complete capitulation, it could have been sorted out a long time ago.

They've now decided to go for broke.

Is your rehashed and melodramatic commentary on every single development really necessary? seems to be your way of feeling like your contributing when actually all you do is offer ridiculous speculation and hypothetical questions.

Excellent analysis.

[orangeman]

The 2008 have put themselves into a corner now they don't now how to extract themselves

I actually think thats a very valid point. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it on all sides. We now have a number of parties at opposite ends of the debate, none of whom want to be seen giving in and none of them knows what the end game is on this and that includes the players.  It is one unholy shambles.

Have to be honest for the good of Gaa in Cork I think all relevent parties should be taken out of the equation. How about if Frank, Gerald and the 5 main players spokespeople step down as a compromise. This is never going to be solved as long as any one of the three parties remain.
At this stage it doesn't matter who's fault it is, it needs to be sorted. And if that means sacrificing a few egos then so be it.

Once again Indiana....

Why 5? Why not 6 or 11?

What rubbish !!! 6 or 11 - how ridiculous.Is this all you can come up with ?? Really you should refrain from such tripe.

[The GAA]

Of course its rubbish. That's why i plucked numbers from the air brains. as is 5 rubbish.

Its a terrible waste of time having to explain that ironic posts are ironic to the likes of you

[dowling]

And by the way Reillers, withdraw your disgusting insinuation about Alan White!!  How dare you!  He was the one who stood up to declare that delegates should have the right to discuss motions with their clubs on Tuesday evening!  So now he is in the co boards pocket is he?? I have spoken to the man twice today as he is a fellow club man  of mine and  and he is of the highest character and has voted against the co board several times in the past!

Ah but if he's not 100% behind the 2008 panel he can be put into a box. And having heard White on the radio I was inclined to think he probably leaned more towards the players but the nastiness he received was typical of the pro-panel posters on this site.

The whole thing is that the players can't compromise. It's GMcC or not GMcC. They can only win or lose because they haven't given themselves room for any middle ground. No doubt Canty's involvement today was a reminder of the footballers' threat although if Sunday night's meeting goes against the 2008 panel you would have thought the footballers don't enter the equation.

"I prefer to take a logical argument OM and take everything I know into account - not just what suits a certain argument. I also prefer to let people who know more speak more.

The players have went about this very badly. It was hard, and is hard, to know whether their objective was to get Gerald or FM out."
imtommy gun

Getting FM out isn't an issue if they can get their own way, because if they get their own way they in fact have power over FM, so it has to be McCarthy. For the likes of GAA that's a logical analysis.

To say the players have gone about this badly is an understatement. But no doubt they will take encouragement from ill-thought out posts from the likes of reillers, indiana and GAA on this board in their destructive action.

[dublinese]

And Dublin was poor game, and Dublin themselves aren't that good, played a lot better against Galway and Galway without the so called new king of hurling and his older brother who's pretty handy to say the least, aren't the same team. Last time I checked when Cork played Galway Canning scored every single Galway point except one.
Obviously they are not going to be the same with out the so called golden child.

You wont find a Tipp fan who thinks they played well against Cork and you wont find a Galway fan, hell you wont find any fan, except you apparently, who doesn't think that a team without the Canning's are a shadow of a team.

And yet Cork still got trashed by both.

That is not an opinion, it's fact. Yet I'm childish for saying, feck off.

Last year's Cork panel played Dublin twice and only managed to beat us by five points on both occasions. Many would argue that they were lucky to beat us in the Championship game.

Now tell me who isn't very good. It's pathetic coming on here and using performances against Dublin to back up your argument when you don't take these into context.

Contrast this to the 2007 championship game where Cork beat us by a cricket score. Dublin are a county on the up and one day we will be better than Cork and its not because of internal rows or politics hampering your county. Sport goes in cycles, get over it

[Reillers]

And by the way Reillers, withdraw your disgusting insinuation about Alan White!!  How dare you!  He was the one who stood up to declare that delegates should have the right to discuss motions with their clubs on Tuesday evening!  So now he is in the co boards pocket is he?? I have spoken to the man twice today as he is a fellow club man  of mine and  and he is of the highest character and has voted against the co board several times in the past!

Ah but if he's not 100% behind the 2008 panel he can be put into a box. And having heard White on the radio I was inclined to think he probably leaned more towards the players but the nastiness he received was typical of the pro-panel posters on this site.

The whole thing is that the players can't compromise. It's GMcC or not GMcC. They can only win or lose because they haven't given themselves room for any middle ground. No doubt Canty's involvement today was a reminder of the footballers' threat although if Sunday night's meeting goes against the 2008 panel you would have thought the footballers don't enter the equation.

"I prefer to take a logical argument OM and take everything I know into account - not just what suits a certain argument. I also prefer to let people who know more speak more.

The players have went about this very badly. It was hard, and is hard, to know whether their objective was to get Gerald or FM out."
imtommy gun

Getting FM out isn't an issue if they can get their own way, because if they get their own way they in fact have power over FM, so it has to be McCarthy. For the likes of GAA that's a logical analysis.

To say the players have gone about this badly is an understatement. But no doubt they will take encouragement from ill-thought out posts from the likes of reillers, indiana and GAA on this board in their destructive action.

The matter of fact that you cannot wrap your brain around the fact that it's how McCarthy was reappointed was the problem, then I really don't know why you're here.
So when it come across that the players comprimise they are given grief by the anti players posters and then when it turns out they didn't, they are given grief again, please we all know why you and the likes of OM who refuses to even respond to posts that he knows he can't answer, we all know why ye come on here, not because of the facts or who did what, it's purely because ye just want to whinge and bitch about the players, no matter what they do. IF they comprimise they're wrong and if they don't, they're still wrong.

You say that you take all facts into account.
You say that the players went about this badly. What about the CB, who have had a PR machine working for them and Gerald from the start.
They reappointed the one man the players said they didn't want purely to get rid of the "ringleaders" from 2002. None of which has been justified by the anti player posters on here.
The players from the start have stuck with the truth all the way. The CB made them look like the bad guys in the press because of that PR machine. Yesterdays version was an excellent example of it at work. The players were taken out of context, for one reason only and to stirr things before the meeting today, something which Croke Park are furious with.
The CB are going to desperate measures to try and make the players look bad. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter how bad you look once your telling the truth and being honest with yourselfs and others. And that despite the grief they've gotten, has what the players have done.

And now here we are with massive momentum building up behind the players and theres serious pressure on the CB now, why, because of one too many dirty tricks and one too many lies.
The tide is turning and if the clubs turn out in force today then who knows what'll happen.

[Reillers]

And Dublin was poor game, and Dublin themselves aren't that good, played a lot better against Galway and Galway without the so called new king of hurling and his older brother who's pretty handy to say the least, aren't the same team. Last time I checked when Cork played Galway Canning scored every single Galway point except one.
Obviously they are not going to be the same with out the so called golden child.

You wont find a Tipp fan who thinks they played well against Cork and you wont find a Galway fan, hell you wont find any fan, except you apparently, who doesn't think that a team without the Canning's are a shadow of a team.

And yet Cork still got trashed by both.

That is not an opinion, it's fact. Yet I'm childish for saying, feck off.

Last year's Cork panel played Dublin twice and only managed to beat us by five points on both occasions. Many would argue that they were lucky to beat us in the Championship game.

Now tell me who isn't very good. It's pathetic coming on here and using performances against Dublin to back up your argument when you don't take these into context.

Contrast this to the 2007 championship game where Cork beat us by a cricket score. Dublin are a county on the up and one day we will be better than Cork and its not because of internal rows or politics hampering your county. Sport goes in cycles, get over it

So if lets say if Derby drew with Man United twice in one season does that make them better then United? Maybe one day they'll be better then Man United as well. Give me a break.

[Zulu]

From the Sunday Tribune

Players accuse Cork board of sabotage
Gaelic Games News, Kieran Shannon, Gaelic Games Editor

Back to the wall: Cork players have rubbished claims they'd be willing to play for manager Gerald McCarthy under a different set of selectors The Cork hurling panel of 2008 has reiterated it will not play under Gerald McCarthy again under any circumstances and claims that speculation to the contrary following Friday night's county board meeting was fuelled by the executive trying to hamper the players' meeting with club chairmen tonight.




There had been some optimism yesterday that a resolution was close at hand after a club delegate and a statement by Gerald McCarthy read by secretary Frank Murphy claimed the players had expressed a willingness to play for the manager under certain conditions. Blarney's Alan White revealed that "what he had been told" by players was they would be favourable to playing for McCarthy if three of his selectors were to be replaced by others agreeable to both McCarthy and the players. The meeting broke up with the consensus that if some selectors "had to be sacrificed" to end the stalemate then it should be explored.




However, yesterday the players said that while their three representatives in the talks with Paraic Duffy and Christy Cooney in Cork Airport may have briefly floated the idea of playing for McCarthy among themselves, they dismissed it soon after. The board, they say, latched onto the very mention of the prospect to scupper the attendance and impact of the players' meeting with club chairmen tonight.




"It [the idea of playing for McCarthy] was briefly mentioned by the three players but it never even went back to the other seven players that were also in the airport for the reps to consult with," says one player. "For the board to put it out that the strike is coming to an end and the players are ready to play for Gerald is totally untrue.




"You'd have to think they spun that to sabotage the meeting with the [club] chairmen. There's been a huge groundswell of support for us in the past week with junior clubs feeling they've been isolated and the board are now afraid the power will be wrestled off them by the clubs. The events of the past day or two and the spin that's been put on them means it is all the more important that we meet the club chairmen."




And so, as the players prepare to meet the club chairmen tonight, the power struggle continues. For that's what it is. Whether you think the dispute is about player power or a power play by the board, everyone can agree it's a power struggle.




In some of the most seminal works on the study of power, political scientists have identified that perhaps the most subtle but telling feature of power is being able to control the agenda of the day. Group A decides what's on the agenda and just as importantly, what's not on it. Furthermore, they're able to define the parameters of the debate. Some areas are simply off-limits because of the preconceived values and practices Group A has been able to establish in the past.




To date in this dispute the Cork executive has wielded the power of 'agenda control' with impressive vigour. Gerald McCarthy is the only candidate in the appointments 'process'. On the night his reappointment is validated, they deny the media access and choose not to inform board delegates how vehemently the players have opposed the appointment.




At county convention they propose negotiations while emphasising McCarthy's future is non-negotiable. A day after the players hold a press conference, the top table blocks a motion from Cloyne calling that any vote on the management impasse be notified in advance so the clubs can duly debate it and mandate their delegates.




The county footballers issue strike notice and 10,000 people take to the streets in support of the 2008 panel and within days the executive gives a few hours' notice that Gerald McCarthy will be speaking at that night's board meeting. After Gerald's speech, a snap vote is taken, and in the ultimate display of agenda control, the chairman rules that there will be no further vote on the matter even though the players are going to be meeting the club chairmen.




This past week the board's power has been evident again. An executive whose secretary during the last strike could go on holidays for a few weeks feels the urgency on Friday to call another board meeting at a few hours' notice. In the Cork Airport discussions Christy Cooney and Paraic Duffy work on the premise that Gerald McCarthy's position for 2009 is not on the agenda. Neither is Frank Murphy's, though he's now presided over three disputes in six years. That would be to go beyond the parameters of this debate yet it's perfectly reasonable to ask the 2008 players to play under McCarthy again when of the 15 players who started against Kilkenny last August, Brian Murphy, Ronan Curran and Patrick Horgan are the only three who haven't publicly disrespected his coaching. As damning as some of their recommendations were of the current regime in Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Duffy and Cooney ultimately chose to ignore the law and practicalities of the dressing room in favour of the law of the board room.




In recent days junior clubs have expressed their disgruntlement with how their delegates voted without or against a mandate. Some are calling for a special convention. Along with Rule 42, this is the biggest issue Cork clubs will probably have encountered for decades. Surely they're entitled to vote about one of them. By secret ballot if they want. Maybe it's time they had that much agenda control, that they finally had some power.


February 22, 2009

[INDIANA]

And Dublin was poor game, and Dublin themselves aren't that good, played a lot better against Galway and Galway without the so called new king of hurling and his older brother who's pretty handy to say the least, aren't the same team. Last time I checked when Cork played Galway Canning scored every single Galway point except one.
Obviously they are not going to be the same with out the so called golden child.

You wont find a Tipp fan who thinks they played well against Cork and you wont find a Galway fan, hell you wont find any fan, except you apparently, who doesn't think that a team without the Canning's are a shadow of a team.

And yet Cork still got trashed by both.

That is not an opinion, it's fact. Yet I'm childish for saying, feck off.

Last year's Cork panel played Dublin twice and only managed to beat us by five points on both occasions. Many would argue that they were lucky to beat us in the Championship game.

Now tell me who isn't very good. It's pathetic coming on here and using performances against Dublin to back up your argument when you don't take these into context.

Contrast this to the 2007 championship game where Cork beat us by a cricket score. Dublin are a county on the up and one day we will be better than Cork and its not because of internal rows or politics hampering your county. Sport goes in cycles, get over it

So if lets say if Derby drew with Man United twice in one season does that make them better then United? Maybe one day they'll be better then Man United as well. Give me a break.

You're so arrogant Reillers. At least Kilkenny and Cody have some dignity about them.  I for one will not shed a tear when Cork are in Div2 and the Christy Ring. I will probably open a bottle a bubbly and a hamlet cigar. No loss in my view. I couldn't care less who's at fault at this stage. Its a shocking endigtment that Israelis and Palestinians can sit down and call a truce and Cork Gaa can't. Disgraceful in my view and nothing to be proud of. Yet the parties down there use it as some sort of a badge of honour.

[The GAA]

The 2008 have put themselves into a corner now they don't now how to extract themselves

I actually think thats a very valid point. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it on all sides. We now have a number of parties at opposite ends of the debate, none of whom want to be seen giving in and none of them knows what the end game is on this and that includes the players.  It is one unholy shambles.

Have to be honest for the good of Gaa in Cork I think all relevent parties should be taken out of the equation. How about if Frank, Gerald and the 5 main players spokespeople step down as a compromise. This is never going to be solved as long as any one of the three parties remain.
At this stage it doesn't matter who's fault it is, it needs to be sorted. And if that means sacrificing a few egos then so be it.

Once again Indiana....

Why 5? Why not 6 or 11?

[INDIANA]

That answer is back in the thread Gaa. its not my fault they don't teach literacy classes in armagh.