McCarthy admits he does not have backing of Cork hurlers

[Reillers]

One of only two things could have happened, either the situation we have now or a bunch of very unhappy hurlers would have grudgingly played for Gerald (with probably a few retirements), so neither of these situations should be acceptable to a CB or Cork GAA supporters. They must have known this to be the case and if you don't accept that you've abandond the concept of logic altogether, besides the players told them they wouldn't play for Gerald and they knew these lads would follow through on that so they probaly did know this is how things would pan out. Either way they didn't execute their responsibilities to the GAA.

Zulu look at it from the other side. Do you really believe that the total 30 players of the 2008 panel all arrived at the same conclusion independently that Gerald wasn't up to scratch? Do you not think some of the players made the issue and influenced others?
Donal og makes it out that issues came up from players and he or/and others relayed those views to the management as if that was the height of their role. I'd like to know which of the young players or more recent ones on the panel brought up the issues.
What do you think?

Great players like Sherlock have walked away and I didn't want to see more do so. Another 2 years of McCarthy would have left to that I'd say, no doubt abou it.
And this bullshit of an offer that oh the players can still come back, they can't, not after everthing and McCarthy wouldn't take them back either, he is making that offer purely to make him look like the big man when we all know it's a joke and that no player would go near him and if they did he wouldn't leave them play.

And you don't think Dowling despite what the likes of Allen, O Grady, Walsh..etc. everyone who has come out backing the players and the players themselves, despite what they may say you still don't believe them.

Now if 30 workers were overworked in high pressure jobs with poor pay for 2 years and no end in sight all because their manager wasn't doing his job propperly. Would it be hard to believe that all 30 had the same opinion and didn't want to work for him? Of course not. They all experienced the same thing.
Why can't the same apply here?
Despite what everyone has said who are backing the players and despite what the players have said themselves you continue to question them all on the word of Gerald McCarthy (and FM who of course is silent in all of this.)
Everything that's been said about him has come from Gerald and his selectors, which we've been told by Martin Walsh that they were all lies basically, which forced him to want to leave.
You'd be surprised Dowling but just because they're 20 year olds doesn't make them idiots, now if anything these lads were as if not more vocal then the older lads and they made their feelings perfectly clear at the press conference.
But hell you don't believe them either.
Tell me what would make you believe what the likes of O Grady, Allen, the players etc are saying, because the minute you are falling for the word of one man and his selectors.

[orangeman]

Why did the players play such hard ball ? Ok some of the CB might have it in for some of the players but I genuinely do NOT believe that all of the CB have it in for ALL of the 2008 panel - Donal Og, Sean Og, Gardiner and a few others , yes but not ALL of the CB and definitely not ALL of the players.


Do you think that the CB are taking any pleasure of of this situation ?  

[Zulu]

One of only two things could have happened, either the situation we have now or a bunch of very unhappy hurlers would have grudgingly played for Gerald (with probably a few retirements), so neither of these situations should be acceptable to a CB or Cork GAA supporters. They must have known this to be the case and if you don't accept that you've abandond the concept of logic altogether, besides the players told them they wouldn't play for Gerald and they knew these lads would follow through on that so they probaly did know this is how things would pan out. Either way they didn't execute their responsibilities to the GAA.

I'll refer you to my above post, you said the CB wouldn't have reappointed Gerald if they had known what would happen, i posted the above in response, so do you now accept they did know what they were doing and if not why?

All the CB may not have it in for all the players but the most senior CB men do have it in for the most senior players and that is all that matters.

[Reillers]

If Martin Walsh was hedging his bets why does he give a big interview to 'da paper'? Maybe there's just a small chance that these are his legimately held views?

Everyone here is using everything to suit their argument. Martin Walsh damns the current set-up and the pro-players group on here say that this irrevocably proves their point. The anti-players element ignore it and say its just a man looking out for his own interests. Opinions are way too polorised on this issue for me to think there's going to be any positive outcome anytime soon.

Do people not appreciate that massive mistakes have been made by Gerald McCarthy, by Frank Murphy, by board delegates and by the 2008 panel? Nobody in this mess has a monopoly on righteousness

How many papers is he supposed to give interviews to?
On your last paragraph, the only person Martin Walsh openly lays any blame with is Gerald.
If his views have always been legitimate and so strong why did he not declare them earlier and avoid involvement with the present panel? Surely integrity would have dictated he be up front and walk away from the present management and panel.
No doubt Gerald McC will be feeling badly betrayed and rather Martin hadn't been there at all than to have behaved in this way.

So the GPA has raised its head! As Orangeman says it probably isn't involved though!

GAA just listened to that interview again and confirmed my earlier views. Haven't a link but you can listen to it on the Marian Finucane podcast on the RTE radio website.

Just heard the news about the GMcC and delegates meeting tonight. This will be interesting.

[/b]


Tonight's meeting will be a back me or sack me appeal from Mc Carthy I reckon.

[/u]


Reillers - everybody KNEW that Mc Carthy was going to address the meeting last night and that it would go to a vote eventually on whether to back him or sack him.


The delegates backed him - do you not accept that ?.

We knew that he would address them, but we were told that no decision would be made. No one knew there was a vote.

"Blarney delegate White said he believed delegates should be allowed go back to the clubs and get their views on McCarthy's appointment and said he had warned last October McCarthy's reappointment would cause the players to walk away."

There's more of it like. They shouldn't have been made vote.

[orangeman]

There's been a vote last night and the night before ?

Don't tell me Cork clubs didn't realise that a vote was going to happen - sure it's the ONLY thing that has dominated every conversation, newspaper, radio or TV sports programme for months.

[Reillers]

Why did the players play such hard ball ? Ok some of the CB might have it in for some of the players but I genuinely do NOT believe that all of the CB have it in for ALL of the 2008 panel - Donal Og, Sean Og, Gardiner and a few others , yes but not ALL of the CB and definitely not ALL of the players.


Do you think that the CB are taking any pleasure of of this situation ?  

All of them no, some of the CB want the so called "ring leaders" left over from 2002, yes very much so, this, all of this, McCarthy's reappointment was for one reason and one reason only, to get rid of the remaining "trouble makers" who had embarased poor old Frank, instead they lost the entire two teams and now look very much like loosing the footballers.

Do I think that the CB are taking any pleasure out of this, some, not all, but ya. I think this is making FM's year.

[orangeman]

But if you were one of the Cork CB executive or FM in particular, you wouldn't feel very comfortable, even with the delegates voting for Mc Carthy.

There's no winners here in spite of what the CB, Mc Carthy might think.

Any perceived "victory" would be quite hollow ones.


I think "pyrrhic" is the term.

[Reillers]

But if you were one of the Cork CB executive or FM in particular, you wouldn't feel very comfortable, even with the delegates voting for Mc Carthy.

There's no winners here in spite of what the CB, Mc Carthy might think.

Any perceived "victory" would be quite hollow ones.


I think "pyrrhic" is the term.

There is always a winner and that man is always Frank Murphy, he always gets his way unless it's the IC hurlers who stand up to the bully that he is. Where are we left without them, when there's no one left to fight our battles for us except the IC players who shouldn't have to. We expect them to fix and win every one of our battles. THe club scenes a joke, what are the hurlers doing about it.
Frank Murphy's a bullying dictator..yet again it's down to the IC players to challenge him.

There are cowards in this but when we call for people to stand up to Frank Murphy, the only ones left standing are these players, hell even the footballers needed their hands held by them.
The clubs are either too scared of the ramifications or couldn't be bother because the players have caused them enough problems over the years.

There is one clear winner and he will still be the clear winner when Cork are relegated into the Christy Ring Cup and that is Frank Murphy.

This is all because of him and his petty little vendetta for revenge. He'll be the only Cork man cheering when we are relegated because he's gotten his revenge.
In two years time it'll be too late.

Tom Humphries said it when talking about Cork's game against Galway last season when Cork were down a man and loosing at half time he said..

"Pause for breath. What was going through the minds of a few county board men as they saw the spikiest team in Cork's turbulent history being ribboned and shredded and their totem, their leader, taking the long walk. A championship defeat, yes, but control, complete control of the hurlers back with the blazers?"

And that's what they've gotten now if nothings done. If nothing changes..He's done it. Complete control and that's all FM has ever wanted..congrats Frank, you've now got complete control, and you couldn't be happier and you've killed Cork GAA in the process. Christy Ring Cup here we come. And honestly he'll smile his way through every humiliating defeat because at the end of the day he will have won, he got revenge and that's all that's ever mattered to him.

And for the rest of us, hurling, GAA itself will slowly die out in Cork and well..rugby it is. All because of the ego of one man. One man and his power play has cause then entire downfall of Cork GAA and I doubt he could be happier.

[orangeman]

Are the delegates who backed Mc Carthy out of touch with reality and on Frank's wavelength  ? Is Mc Carthy out of touch as well ?

[Reillers]

Yes OM. Take a look at this.
It appears that the media were there last night after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMFSU2zAW0

[heffo]

Why did the players play such hard ball ? Ok some of the CB might have it in for some of the players but I genuinely do NOT believe that all of the CB have it in for ALL of the 2008 panel - Donal Og, Sean Og, Gardiner and a few others , yes but not ALL of the CB and definitely not ALL of the players.


Do you think that the CB are taking any pleasure of of this situation ?  

Do I think that the CB are taking any pleasure out of this, some, not all, but ya. I think this is making FM's year.

I don't agree - I think Frank was very upset last night. If you cut him does he not bleed?

[The GAA]

You can call me a liar all you like.

You can continue making an eejit of yourself. You're only annoying yourself.

At least you haven't denied being a liar

[orangeman]

Yes OM. Take a look at this.
It appears that the media were there last night after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMFSU2zAW0

Very good Reillers. 

[dowling]

The younger players came out and said it themselves so I can only take it at face value, however IMO there is no doubt that some of the panel would play for Gerald again and that there are varying opinions within the panel, however, and I'm going back to this again, if even a majority of players or all the senior players don't get on with Gerald then he is a dead man walking as far as coaching this Cork team is concerned. So why reappoint him?

We are all speculating here a bit but if I were one of the 5 CB members and my concern was simply to get the best man for the job then I wouldn't have reappointed Gerald and I haven't spoken to one person who disagrees with me on that, even staunch anti-player people. So it comes back to why those 5 men did what they did and to me the only logical answer is to shove it into the players, not the good of Cork hurling.

The players maybe impossible to please, they may have an inflated sense of their own importance but that still doesn't justify the men who run Cork GAA, one of whom you and I are paying to do so, persuing a vendetta against these players.

I see your argument ok Zulu but you're picking a certain starting point and implying this is where the trouble started. But it's as easy to say the starting point was when a number of players decided GMcC should not be there. There are other aspects people are throwing in like the system is wrong or there is a bigger issue behind it all. At the end of the day people need to attempt to analyse all the information in the public domain, not just take everything at face value. For instance this leaked document, there may have been a third copy or someone may have released it but in spite of no clear cut evidence we can probably safely assume one of two men released it to the press.
And it's the same throughout this mess and while you wouldn't seem to have a closed mind others do.
You even acknowledge you know nothing of GMcC's coaching abilities but you have heard good reports. I would be similar to yourself there but the only people I've heard be critical of his coaching are some of the 2008 panel. And the height of it was a video problem!
So maybe you could look on this that some of the 2008 players contrived to create this present situation without realising where it would go.

[Zulu]

dowling, for me, Geralds coaching abilities are irrelevant, if Brian Cody or Mickey Harte were asked to take the hurling and football teams of your local club and the players said 'no way, we don't want them and we won't play for them' then IMO that should be it you don't appoint Brian or Mickey. Regardless of why the players won't play for those men, the fact is they won't and although both Brian and Mickey would be regarded as two of the best GAA managers of recent times if the players of a particular club won't play for them, then they are the two worst managers in the country for that club.

Likewise, why the players won't play for Gerald is open for debate but they won't, so the CCB shouldn't be reappointing the man who is the worst manager for this particular team. That they did, raises serious questions about their role in running Cork GAA.


You can be great coach but if, for whatever reason, you've lost the dressing room then you're never going to be the right man for the job.