Kerry v Monaghan part 2

[tbrick18]

Unfortunately (and I do mean that) Monaghan proved yesterday what I have suspected for some time....they are an average team. They have IMO 3 excellent players in the Freemans (Damien being my pick of the two) and Paul Finlay...outside of that there are just a set of average players. What they do have going for them is their determination, fitness and organisation. these things only get you so far but without the talented players Monaghan will always be also-rans.

Kerry won yesterday without every really getting out of second gear IMO and I think they'll step it up again.

It is unfair however to judge the current quality of Ulster football based on this match. IMO the top teams in Ulster at the minute are Armagh and Derry (I'll explain Derry in a minute) and I think realisitically the only team in Ulster that ever had any chance of pushing for All-Ireland honours thiss year was and is Armagh (though to be honest I think it will be either Kerry or Dublin).
Derry have arguably one of the strongest panels in the country....the problem in Derry is organisation from County board level down to managament level. If Derry can get this right you will see why I think they are one of the top 2 in Ulster. Derry beat an near full strength Kerry team in the NFL final as evidence of my argument (and I know the league is the league and not championship but the players were the same players).

Fermanagh played above themselves and again their organisation could have won them an Ulster, but ultimately they are lacking in talent as with Monaghan. Tyron are in the early days of rebuiling and until they get their forward line sorted I cant see them contending for AI's but they would still be there or thereabouts in Ulster. So the quality teams in Ulster, Armagh, Derry and Tyrone...no an honest question for the Kerry posters (and not meant to be an arrogant question and purely hypothetical)....do you think Kerry would have beaten Armagh/Tyrone/Derry had you been playing them yesterday? the answer to that might be a better indication of the strength of Ulster football.

[INDIANA]

kerry were not in second gear yesterday. They are a very good side, but they are not unbeatable this year in comparison to other years . With a bit more savvy Monaghan coulld have won. If Corey had played at 3 , they may well have won. You have to match Donaghy for size before anything else. By playing Cooper at 11 , kerry are really giving teams a chance.because they have no pace in the FF line. The right team like Armagh would make hay under the high ball that kerry religiously pump in all the time. It's so predicatble, but monaghan made the stupid mistake of having 2 defenders that were  a foot smaller than their direct opponents. Crazy stuff.
They also weren't clinical enough. Monaghan don't seem to get any credit from their ulster counterparts. The reality is bar Armagh they are better than all the rest of them. With the right defence and a little bit more of a clinical edge up front they can get damn close in the next few years.
Kerry are a good side as ever, but I think they are more beatable this year. They have problems at the back and Dara is on his own at midfield. but they do and always will have class forwards.

[full back]

Kerry proved yesterday that they are a step up from the majority of teams in the country. Cant see any team being able to handle Donaghy.
IMHO the only way to stop Kerry is ensure the ball doesnt go in to him.
Easier said than done when O'Se is doing his job so well. He may not be making as many forward runs - but he is making enough catches, breaks, spoils & in general being a cnut around the middle (no bad thing)
The Gooch had an off day in comparison to his normal performance yet Kerry closed the game out at a canter
It's Kerry's to lose again

[INDIANA]

kerry are still the best team around but not sure its theirs to lose. but they have a nice draw, they will love playing galway because galway will play football with them. and cork can't beat kerry in croke park. so its  a handy run to the final.

[Main Street]

Q/F for the winners after a rest of 6 days
It would have been a hard ask for Monaghan if they had won.

The class and skill of Kerry shone through in the game against a workmanlike Monaghan team.  Thankfully the team with the ability to play a bit of football came through with the result.
Don't think Monaghan are any great shakes (apart from T. Freeman) and I can't see them winning any titles in the near future.  Simply not enough true footballers

Another bitter Derry graceless post which can't get over his beautifull team being beaten twice in a row by a better football team.
Now the bitterness is attempted to be guised by this so called objective analysis.


 

[full back]

Q/F for the winners after a rest of 6 days

If they wanted a bigger break they should have won their Provincial title

[imtommygunn]

I don't think there are many teams better in Ulster than Monaghan - if any. To question if Kerry would have fared worse against a Derry team they'vre beaten twice in 2 years is a bit misguided IMO. Kerry yesterday would have done Derry and Tyrone and to be honest probably Armagh too.

Personally I thought Monaghan tactically made two big mistakes. Tommy Walsh is a big man and needed a big man marking him as stated. Also Darren Hughes should not have been put on at midfield. First ball that came towards him Griffin won and Kerry got a goal. The guy is way too small to be competing in there.

Aside from the 3 players stated Vinny Corey is also an excellent player and Woods is no slouch. Hanratty is a bit raw but could be excellent too. Eoin Lennon can hold his own too. McArdle sollid at the back too and McQuaid isn't bad.

[tbrick18]

When derry played Kerry in the league final donaghy was marked by Nial McCusker, a good foot shorter than Donaghy. Kerry used the same tactics and Donaghy didnt score from play (I think). So I dont necessarily agree with the idea that he is unmarkable. Again only the league but is showed you dont need a 6'5" player to mark him.

I dont agree that Monaghan are better than all in Ulster bar Armagh...but se'll just have to disagree on that one. I personally cant see Monaghan, Fermanagh, Down (all on a par IMO), Cavan, Antrim winning Ulster with the current players they posess....I could see any of Armagh/Tyrone/Derry and to a lesser extent Donegal winning an ulster in the near future...with the implication that only Armagh/Tyron/Derry would be serious contenders outisde of Ulster in the coming years.

[INDIANA]

i agree , i can't understand the negativity towards monaghan here, in the last 2 years only 3 teams have beaten or got close to kerry in the championship. cork,dublin and monaghan.  
and lads forget league, this is championship, kerry don't train for the league.

[imtommygunn]

I would agree with regards to current players and capabilities to win ulster brick.

However in current state Derry , as proven, are not in a fit state to win Ulster.

Niall McCusker is well suited to mark Donaghy. Not many physically could better him. Not many teams have a FB like that though. Francie v Donaghy would make interesting viewing. Dublin haven't a FB capable of it.

Monaghan are a very good team. I've a funny feeling Dublin and Kerry and just a step ahead of the rest. Where Armagh are currently at - time will tell. Them and Monaghan would be a good close game IMO.

I've a funny feeling Monaghan are a wee bit short tactically and while Banty has done a good job if you had a scenario like Kernan / Harte coming into the Armagh / Tyrone setups if they had someone to give them that extra edge they could win ulster and seriously challenge for sam.

[magickingdom]

kerry are still the best team around but not sure its theirs to lose. but they have a nice draw, they will love playing galway because galway will play football with them. and cork can't beat kerry in croke park. so its  a handy run to the final.

oh here we go again, its all luck is it?

When derry played Kerry in the league final donaghy was marked by Nial McCusker, a good foot shorter than Donaghy. Kerry used the same tactics and Donaghy didnt score from play (I think). So I dont necessarily agree with the idea that he is unmarkable. Again only the league but is showed you dont need a 6'5" player to mark him.

I dont agree that Monaghan are better than all in Ulster bar Armagh...but se'll just have to disagree on that one. I personally cant see Monaghan, Fermanagh, Down (all on a par IMO), Cavan, Antrim winning Ulster with the current players they posess....I could see any of Armagh/Tyrone/Derry and to a lesser extent Donegal winning an ulster in the near future...with the implication that only Armagh/Tyron/Derry would be serious contenders outisde of Ulster in the coming years.

think golf and the majors, the league final was forgotton about at 5pm that sunday

Unfortunately (and I do mean that) Monaghan proved yesterday what I have suspected for some time....they are an average team. They have IMO 3 excellent players in the Freemans (Damien being my pick of the two) and Paul Finlay...outside of that there are just a set of average players. What they do have going for them is their determination, fitness and organisation. these things only get you so far but without the talented players Monaghan will always be also-rans.

imo monaghan are one of the top 5 teams in the country well capable of winning an all ireland if the chips fall right. i know most kerry fans feared them yesterday

[Maguire01]

It really is sour grapes, and a great disservice to both Monaghan and Kerry to suggest that Kerry never moved out of second gear yesterday. It was a hard fought game and both teams gave it loads in what was a close contest to the end.

And as for the Freemans and Finlay being the only above average players - i'd like to add McQuaid, Woods and D Mone that list, and give it another few years and i could see Hanratty and McManus stepping up to the next level.

Yes, you can write off Monaghan if you want, and you could have said that 2007 was a fluke, but Monaghan beat Down, Derry and Donegal in the 2007 Championship and really should have taken Tyrone in the Ulster Final. Again this year, after a blip against Fermanagh, Monaghan beat Derry and Donegal again - no fluke. Monaghan should be aiming for an Ulster title next year and it is well within their ability.

2008 was a good year for Monaghan. We arguably got the toughest route of any team in the qualifiers (take Kildare - Cavan, Limerick and Fermanagh as a comparison - no offence to Kildare), but that's the way you want it to be. Roll on 2009 and a big thanks to Banty and all the lads for another good summer.

[Bogball XV]

I know I started most of this, but it wasn't meant to pan out this way, imo Kerry didn't play particularly well yesterday and I think other teams with a bit more to offer up front would have beaten them.  I think the winning of the match was the unbelievable bench that Kerry have, there was some quality on there as opposed to the Monaghan bench.  I have the greatest respect for Kerry football and think their dominance is largely to do with the superb club scene they have (although this doesn't manifest itself in terms of All Ireland clubs, but they're not particularly bothered by that), the current side has many players the equal of any of the immortals of the 70's/80's and is undoubtedly far and away the best team of this millenium, but, I don't think they get tested enough and i want to see good football games, their games with Monaghan and Dublin last year and Monaghan again this year are the challenges I want to see being put down to them, my point was that if this happened them regularly, i feel they would lose a few of those games, but so what, it'd be so much better for football.
Monaghan are most probably in the top eight in the country, and my point was that there is little between them and probably 4 other Ulster teams, I don't think that any of Donegal, Derry, Armagh or maybe Tyrone would have put up a worse performance yesterday. 

[INDIANA]

thats the best kerry ve played all year mate, you're floundering at this stage mate. might be best to quit . Monaghan are a top 5 team, and last year was no flash in the pan. That appears to annoy a lot of people in Ulster , but thats the reality. the rest is just sour grapes.

[Bogball XV]

thats the best kerry ve played all year mate, you're floundering at this stage mate. might be best to quit . Monaghan are a top 5 team, and last year was no flash in the pan. That appears to annoy a lot of people in Ulster , but thats the reality. the rest is just sour grapes.

It may be the best Kerry have played all year, but it was still a below par performance from them, very possibly they're really on the way out this time, we had already seen them ship bad defeats in 2 of their last 3 competitive games, so who knows, but Galway certainly should not be without hope next weekend.
I think Monaghan have a terrific manager who has got the most out of a solid, but ultimately limited squad of players.  I don't think they're top 5, but you're welcome to your opinion, if they're really top 5 though it says a lot for the overall strength of ulster football