Kerry v Monaghan part 2

[imtommygunn]

In all honesty though, and this is not a dig, I do think this post shows up that Derry supporters seem to perceive themselves to be a lot better than they really are. You seem to be of the opinion that Derry would have gave Kerry a game. I find that hard to believe.

Also I do believe that a lack-lustre, but talented, Donegal team would have been demolished by Kerry.

[loughshore lad]

In all honesty though, and this is not a dig, I do think this post shows up that Derry supporters seem to perceive themselves to be a lot better than they really are. You seem to be of the opinion that Derry would have gave Kerry a game. I find that hard to believe.

You hit the nail right on the head there tommygun.  How many times are Derry posters on this board going to trundle out the usual crap - we have one of the best squads in the country, a number of the best players in the country etc etc.  Face reality lads yous are no where near as good as you think you are, too many players have neither the stomach for the battle or that wee bit extra quality that sets aside the good intercounty footballers from the rest.

[tbrick18]

kerry are still the best team around but not sure its theirs to lose. but they have a nice draw, they will love playing galway because galway will play football with them. and cork can't beat kerry in croke park. so its  a handy run to the final.

oh here we go again, its all luck is it?

When derry played Kerry in the league final donaghy was marked by Nial McCusker, a good foot shorter than Donaghy. Kerry used the same tactics and Donaghy didnt score from play (I think). So I dont necessarily agree with the idea that he is unmarkable. Again only the league but is showed you dont need a 6'5" player to mark him.

I dont agree that Monaghan are better than all in Ulster bar Armagh...but se'll just have to disagree on that one. I personally cant see Monaghan, Fermanagh, Down (all on a par IMO), Cavan, Antrim winning Ulster with the current players they posess....I could see any of Armagh/Tyrone/Derry and to a lesser extent Donegal winning an ulster in the near future...with the implication that only Armagh/Tyron/Derry would be serious contenders outisde of Ulster in the coming years.

think golf and the majors, the league final was forgotton about at 5pm that sunday

Unfortunately (and I do mean that) Monaghan proved yesterday what I have suspected for some time....they are an average team. They have IMO 3 excellent players in the Freemans (Damien being my pick of the two) and Paul Finlay...outside of that there are just a set of average players. What they do have going for them is their determination, fitness and organisation. these things only get you so far but without the talented players Monaghan will always be also-rans.

imo monaghan are one of the top 5 teams in the country well capable of winning an all ireland if the chips fall right. i know most kerry fans feared them yesterday

Accroding to Donaghy after the match yesterady the defeat against Derry hurt them a lot...doesnt sound like he's forgotten about it anyway.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but in no way do I see monaghan a top 5 team....Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Derry, Armagh, Tyrone all better teams than Monaghan IMO.
As for Derry giving Kerry a better game, I honestly dont know....as I've said there are serious problems in Derry from County board level down to management level and unless these are sorted out Derry will not achieve as much as they should....whereas it seems the likes of Monaghan and Fermanagh have very good county board support and a good management set up. What I have been attempting to say is that Derry have better players than Monaghan/Fermanagh, but Monaghan/Fermanagh have the better set-up, so Derry are restricted by their county board and management whereas Monaghan/Fermanagh are restricted by their lack of quality players.

I still maintain Kerry were only in 2nd gear yesterday....missed a penalty and quite a few scores you would normally see them taking....I thought thery were at least 6 points the better team.

[INDIANA]

I think Monaghan need to win a few ulster championships to shut a few people up. I've never seen such begrudgery. I thought they were shite against us in the league, but they are a different side in Croker and good to watch. They have a lot of players at the right age, something a lot of people from Ulster have missed and with the right direction and a bit of fine tuning could have a serious tilt at an -ireland in the next couple of seasons. But they need to target an ulster championship and stop leaving themselves minefields in the qualifiers.Ask Pat o shea in the 53rd minute yesterday whetehr he felt they were 6 points a better team. monghan missed 4 good scoring chances in the first half and finlay missed a couple of frees he'd normally expect to get.
Had Hanratty scored the goal or squared it to woods, things could have been very interesting.

[imtommygunn]

Brick Derry have played Monaghan in the championship the last two years running.

Monaghan have won both games.

How you perceive Derry to be better than Monaghan having been beat twice in two years I don't know.

[tbrick18]

Brick Derry have played Monaghan in the championship the last two years running.

Monaghan have won both games.

How you perceive Derry to be better than Monaghan having been beat twice in two years I don't know.

Regardless of these results Derry have better players. The problem in Derry is that the county board tied the hands of an already limited manager....I could go into a hundred and one things that happened within the derry setup between the fermanagh and monaghan game but on hear is not the place. If I was to pick a team from both sets of players I reckon I would only have 3-4 monaghan players starting above Derry players and I dont think there'd be too many people out there who would argue with that.

[Bensars]

Theres your answer.

Derry depend on individuals  whilst monaghan have a much better all round team ethos IMHO.

[imtommygunn]

In all honesty I think you're way off the mark there.

Dessie Mone, Lennon, Woods, McQuaid, two Freemans, Woods, who's to say about the keeper.I'd have Gollogly on in front of your wing forwards, Hanratty to challenge etc.. You have two top players in Doherty and Bradley - the rest are very over-rated.

If you boys get a good manager in and you don't do anything I don't know where you're going to go...

Anyway Monaghan are a good team. Two people on here haven't given them the credit they deserve. Both Derry people.

Kerry, Armagh, Dublin and maybe Cork are IMO the only teams better than Monaghan.(Not Galway, Tyrone or Mayo) That's an objective viewpoint too as I would prefer to see Derry winning things.

[SuperDooperCooper]

Good game overall yesterday, slow first half and a good second half. Better game than last year I feel.
Monaghan gave us one hell of a test physically and hopefully this will bring us on.
Darragh looked in the best shape of the summer yesterday and it was great to see him take control when it was in the melting pot - vintage Darragh.
The full back line was run ragged, Reidy and Marc in trouble all day while Tom didn't fare that well either.
Half back were good, Killian Young looking like the young player of the year again, Tomas is Tomas and I though Mahony came back well from the nasty leg injury early on.
That said Woods won their battle, I must say really impressed by Woods,he doesn't look fit but what a player.
The twin tower approach won ball all day, conversion rate must be upped the next day as we didn't score enough for the possession we had.
We need to get Gooch more involved. The good news is that we are still hanging around for another week at least.........

[tbrick18]

Theres your answer.

Derry depend on individuals  whilst monaghan have a much better all round team ethos IMHO.

You make it sound like the Derry players deliberately set out to play as individuals and not as a team....this simply is not the case.
Any team that plays like a team...i.e. Armagh, Monaghan, Tyrone, Kerry, play that way as it is the way they have been coached to play. Derry have not had that luxury....they dont have a game plan and yet in the past few years have beaten some of the biggest names in chamionship football by pure individual talent alone. this is not the fauld of players. I dont think there are many teams out there that could have won some the matches that Derry did win without a gameplan.
I wouldnt say that Monaghan have a better all round team ethos, I would say that they are better managed and prepared.

I stick to it, Derry have better players.

[imtommygunn]

When have they beaten some of the biggest names in championship football in the last few years - league aside?

You beat Tyrone the other year by a gameplan by the way so I wouldn't count that. 15 behind the ball but gameplan none the less.

[tbrick18]

In all honesty I think you're way off the mark there.

Dessie Mone, Lennon, Woods, McQuaid, two Freemans, Woods, who's to say about the keeper.I'd have Gollogly on in front of your wing forwards, Hanratty to challenge etc.. You have two top players in Doherty and Bradley - the rest are very over-rated.

If you boys get a good manager in and you don't do anything I don't know where you're going to go...

Anyway Monaghan are a good team. Two people on here haven't given them the credit they deserve. Both Derry people.

Kerry, Armagh, Dublin and maybe Cork are IMO the only teams better than Monaghan.(Not Galway, Tyrone or Mayo) That's an objective viewpoint too as I would prefer to see Derry winning things.

Yes sorry, I forgot about McQuaid, but not any of the others.
Look, I dont begrudge Monaghan some success, I'd rather see them win than the likes of Tyron or Armagh but in the same way I would have liked to see Fermanagh win the Ulster after beating us. And when I say I dont see them winning anything that is not meant as a dig or that I dont want them to win (after us that is), I just dont think they have the players....was it the fermanagh gaem Woods was taken off then put back on? Any team that resorts to doing that surely has a weak bench.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the top 5 thing but I stick by what I said.

[tbrick18]

When have they beaten some of the biggest names in championship football in the last few years - league aside?

You beat Tyrone the other year by a gameplan by the way so I wouldn't count that. 15 behind the ball but gameplan none the less.

Last year....Mayo, Armagh, Laois....all championship matches. All 3 have either won provincials or all-irelands or appeared in all-ireland finals in the last few years, so they are some of the biggest names in championship football.

[imtommygunn]

Sorry I did forget about Armagh.

Personally I wouldn't count Mayo as some of the best talent in championship football. Definitely not under O'Mahoney.

Laois got beat by Down this year which based on Down's subsequent performance doesn't say much for Laois either.

[johnpower]

Yes we all get thought it at the age of 10 . So sorry you were offended .Maurice looked most upset

Eh.... want a try that again there John, somebody buy ye a few too many pints today or what?

No i had no points but am concerned that you are upset that a kerry player questioned a decission