An Lú vs Tír Eoghain 19/07/2008

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

OK lads & ladies, time to leave the cracker of the game that was Down vs Tyrone in the weekend that was in it, and just in case To whom it may concern casts any more devastating aspersions on those lads that give so much for the County on that particular thread (entitled to your opinion absolutely, but not to slate on a public forum -- the game itself is only the tip of the iceberg of the time and effort).

'Tis well in advance, but I actually think that that defeat to Down could be a blessing in disguise -- takes us out of the Ulster dogfight and gives time for the injuries and bruises (and bruised egos) to heal.

Thought Fuzzman's post captured it well (in that thread), and just to repeat it:

In recent years Tyrone have often been on the right side of these epic games and the verdict has always been how they will drive on from this and progress

When we won the AI in 2005 the media suddenly we're all praising Tyrone's training methods, underage culture, Club Tyrone etc etc.
None of that would have been mentioned had Kerry got a 3rd goal near the end and won the match

Likewise on Sat night we came very close to STEALING this game but for once we came out on the wrong side of this exciting game
Yeah maybe Down aren't world beaters but for a 1st round match they certainly battled harder than any other team I've saw this year.

Maybe the Tyrone managment do have the stance now of purposely not being TOO fit this time of the year and to try to compensate for the easier runs other teams have to the 1/4 finals such as Kerry, Cork or Dublin.

After the game I too took part in the doom & Gloom outlook that we're a spent force and not a shadow of 2003 or 2005 with hunger, intensity and a great forward line being our main attributes.

So what's the pluses and negatives?

-ves
MF still a huge problem and currently our HF & HB line isn't compensating for this
Forward line is missing a Star forward and I hate to admit it but Sean is wasted in FF and needs to be running facing the goals not with his back to it.
MH seems to have become too loyal to some of his old servants too often and is slow to change them. Is this just stubborness or can't he see it?
Hub looks past it
Dooher was poor Sat but think he's more to give. Not fully fit yet.

+ves
Joey and Justin are two great footballers if they can stay fit
We've some good defenders waiting to break thru
Brian & Tommy McGuigan, Mugsy, McGinley,
I think IF we had a fit team
I would have

Lucky Dip Keeper
PJ
Joey
McCaul/Swift/Carlin/McGee
Ricey
Gormley
Jordan
Cavanagh
Justy
Dooher
B.McGuigan
Mulgrew
Mugsy
Tommy
McGinley

With Penrose, McCullagh. Mellon who played great on Sat all waiting to come in there is a descent enuf team there to get to the 1/4 finals and who knows with a run of matches maybe the final as long as they don't meet Kerry.

People talk about a lot of miles on the clock but with the exception of Holmes & Dooher & maybe Hub who else would U say you would drop from the team. Ricey? No!!

I think we were all hurt by Sat night with Down being so DOWN played for months or years now but I think if you look over the years and teams who went on to win AI's, how often did you leave the 1st round match to hear someone say

"Not much odd's who they meet next, they won't go too far"


Wouldn't disagree too much with that.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

I really think the attitude of the players is going to be crucial in were we go from here. They've trained all year and should continue to show pride in the Tyrone jersey as they have always done. I just hope they stick by Harte ( a change in management now isnt an option) and give it a real go.

It's now you see who the real Tyrone supporters are to because in defeat you'll find a lot of our glory fans will disappear for the qualifiers and say they're not going back because the team or management are crap. I hope we try Justy McMahon in midfield with Cavanagh, as I really think that can solve our problems there. The positives out of the Down games for me were Justy,Tommy McGuigan and Penrose. All 3 have possibly cemented their place in the team and provided some freshness. Colm Cavanagh has also showed he can compete at the level. Mellon could be an option at midfield or even in the half backs as he has pace,good hands and can tackle. Lets just hope that our injury list clears a bit as any team will struggle without 4 decent forwards.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Absolutely TD, it's time to circle the wagons and raise it. This is definitely not the time to be talking of a change of management, rather it's the time for breathing space to reappraise and reformulate -- we owe MH that much at least.

[Rossfan]

I hope Ros arent "foireann eile " 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I hope Ros arent "foireann eile " 

Nah, I think we're nailed on for Meath! 

[ziggysego]

I'm actually feeling quite positive for the Qualifiers. There was a lot of fight in the team on Saturday, something which I felt has been lacking recently, for one reason or another.

I think losing could benefit Tyrone in the long run and they be back in Croke Park before the end of the summer.

[ONeill]

Hard to beat optimism. In my opinion, there's not a sniff of an All-Ireland in this side as attitudes don't change overnight.

However, good enough to beat a few of the qualifier sides. Hopefully not an Ulster side though - been a while since we met a Connaught or Munster side.

Who'll be the side to drive the final nail into the Mickey Harte era though. Kerry? Armagh?

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Lets see if we can beat the 91 page thread for the Down game with this one. 20 pages over the next 4 weeks followed by 15 pages after the game should do the trick. If I thought we'd no chance of doing anything this year then I'd really shake things up for the qualifiers and think of next year. Something like this:
Devine
PJ Quinn
McCarron
Swift
Mellon
Gormley
McCaul
Justy McMahon
C Cavanagh
Mulgrew
McGuigan
McGinley
Penrose
S Cavanagh
T McGuigan

As I said were we go from here will depend greatly on the attitude of the players. I just hope they havent trained from January and give up weekend after weekend to bow out of the championship without a fight.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Hard to beat optimism. In my opinion, there's not a sniff of an All-Ireland in this side as attitudes don't change overnight.

But then ONeill, as you said yourself not a million moons ago:

Crumbs of comfort for Tyrone is that the Derry game in '03 and the Cavan game on '05 were just as pessimistic.

This is now graduation year writ-large for the younger lads. Keep the faith!

[feetofflames]

In my opinion Harte made made a fcuk upo when picking hisa panel this year, and I think he needs to look at who are the current form players in Tyrone.
Harte will probably want to stay on but hes walking no road until he acknowledges his errors
1) Mulligan /  Hughes - thanks and goodbye
2) Analyse the capabilites and potential of the Peter Donnellys, C Gourleys, R Mellons, R Mc Menamins, D Hartes on the paneland ask,  Are they still county standard and better than many club players out there - Surely these guys are now panellists at best.  
3) HArte placed his conviction since 2006 on Raymie Mulgrew and has been proven wrong to the greater extent
4) Mc Cullough had a match saving ball to win and he wouldnt bend for it at the end of extra time.  Bravery should be a prequisite.  
5)  Is Harte picking 2 many small men, old men, yellow men, average men,.
6) He used Gourley in midfield in the championship niot in the league
7) His bizarre on off relationship with Mc Caul - 2 shampionship games - no league football
His bizarre restrictions on Sean Cavanangh
9) The body language of Tyrones gretest ever defender Conor Gormley
10) His continual reference to injuries over the last 3 years in the media qualified by "Ill not use that as an excuse."  In the Independent recently  they talked about Paul Quinn / Aidan Mc Carron / Brian Dooher / and Brian Mc Guigans injuries.  Excuse me but the first two were not Tyrone regulars.  When would you hear about injured Kerry players who had played less than an hour for their counties in the national media.  
11) It was Mickeys risk to take but he pinned Tyrone fortunes this year on Dooher and Mc Guigan coming back to full fitness - this was a high risk strategy and it failled, as much in the fact that it failed to deal with and was never going to deal with many of the other problesm that were obvious.  
12) The loss of talent like Steven O neill, Aidan Mc Carron, Niall mc ginn, Shane Sweeney. Declan Mc Crossan - Could they have been managed better, Can they be got back - thats a huge grey area.  
13) The qualifiers could be his last hurrah for the good of Mickey as a person and for Tyrone football which is more important than any one individual. Theres a nuimber of questions he probably needs to address if he is to achieve in the longer teram again..
Tir Eoghain abu  
 

[clarshack]

would agree with all of what FOF is saying apart from mulligan. he still has plenty to offer if managed right.

[loughshore lad]

Pretty good post from FOF with lots of interesting points.  I think the Tyrone public should get fully behind MH and the panel for the qualifiers with the situation evaluated after that - its the very least the management and panel of players deserve after the years of enjoyment they have given.

[rrhf]

Yip its time for cool heads, we have to put a team out in a month

[snappiered]

Hopefully we can get Mc Ginley, Brian, Mugsy, Mulgrew back fit again and I would be fairly optomistic for the qualifers. We def have to get behind the team right now for the good of Tyrone football. Hopefully we get a decent first round draw and take it from there. The lads showed tremendous fighting spirit on Saturday evening to come from four behind with eight minutes remaining to draw level in normal time and i would base alot of my optimism on this. Does anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is due to be made?

[ONeill]

I'm reliably informed that after Saturday's match there was the mother of all rallying calls from Harte and a senior member of the panel. Braveheart was mentioned. I also believe training has been stepped up including the Sabbath.

The dying kick starts now. Where will it take us?