Princess Anne for Croke Park

[Mike Sheehy]

Some Northerners seem to forget a bloody civil war was fought over the north. Perhaps those in the south of an older generation might take offence at some of the comments by Northerners like winsamsoon.

As for the generations since the civil war, what is it exactly that you would have us do ? What happened in the 1920's happened..its easy now to say that the south should have fought on but people get tired of war and its difficult to keep fighting when you are fighting for something that is, relatively, far away. Even if Ireland had united at that time there probably would have still been a troubles as the protestant "minority" fought on. No matter what way you look at you were going to be stuck in a bitter bloodletting.

The only people that can solve the troubles in the north are the people in the north and there really isnt much real "help" the south, or even the British, can give (if there was a time machine they themeselves would probably go back and shoot William of Orange and those before him that got them into the sorry mess). So no amount of whinging at us is going to help your situation. From my vantage point things have improved a lot in the North. Obviously you, on the ground, can see its not perfect but it would be better if you could clarify what "help" the south can give instead of whinging at us.

[Mike Sheehy]

and, of course, we in kerry have done our bit by letting you win a few handy all-irelands. Some people have no gratitude.

[Zapatista]

Some Northerners seem to forget a bloody civil war was fought over the north. Perhaps those in the south of an older generation might take offence at some of the comments by Northerners like winsamsoon.

As for the generations since the civil war, what is it exactly that you would have us do ? What happened in the 1920's happened..its easy now to say that the south should have fought on but people get tired of war and its difficult to keep fighting when you are fighting for something that is, relatively, far away. Even if Ireland had united at that time there probably would have still been a troubles as the protestant "minority" fought on. No matter what way you look at you were going to be stuck in a bitter bloodletting.

The only people that can solve the troubles in the north are the people in the north and there really isnt much real "help" the south, or even the British, can give (if there was a time machine they themeselves would probably go back and shoot William of Orange and those before him that got them into the sorry mess). So no amount of whinging at us is going to help your situation. From my vantage point things have improved a lot in the North. Obviously you, on the ground, can see its not perfect but it would be better if you could clarify what "help" the south can give instead of whinging at us.

OH my good God.

[Billys Boots]

Once again Billy you have shown that you cannot have an opinion on any subject and you only proceed to analyse every word or full stop i make .

Idiotic and paranoid in equal measures - keep it up lad, you're giving us all a good laugh. 

[lynchbhoy]

I recognise the North is different and that  the free state/free stater is a term of abuse .

the term CAN be a term of 'abuse' but only very infrequent occasions - so you are not wrong...
in general though its just a reference to Ireland south of the border.

To call Ireland 'the republic of Ireland' is in a way, a phrase that states that the six counties are NOT part of Ireland and this will NEVER be uttered by northerners of at least my age (and a wee bit younger I suspect - def never by older folk , though this seems to be softening as 'unification' approaches).

Freestate is used , in the same way you'd say 'munster' if asked where would this years AI football champions most likely hail from.
etc etc

stand down lads, you are fighting over 'regional usage' of words/phrases for no real reason other than lack of understanding Irelands different and strange 'parochia'l phrases

[winsamsoon]

I would tend to agree with you lynchboy. Mikey i do fully realise that a bloody civil war did occur in the south(Is is ok to call it this?) over the decision to partition the north not just over the north as the north had very little to do with it. I like, yourself would never want bloodshed or any other forms of war to be fought and i don't have the answers to what the south could do to help.. However this original debate started over the visit of the Princess to the Rugby game. My overall point was that the political scenario in the north is in total contrast to the south, hence Northern GAA delegates would find this visit a little harder to swallow. As they did with rule 42 and rule 21. By saying this i am not saying there were no members in the south that this would be hard for them to stomach. Some people then began to suggest that we were stuck in the past in the north and i was highlighting certain areas of society in the north that still hasn't moved on. Again some people couldn't acknowledge this and some then began to question the status of our nationality (i think the term was british subjects)which is highly offensive and ignorant to what is really happeniing in the north.The whole debate has now turned on it's head over the use of names.

Ps I liked the wee dig you got in about the All Irelands it kinda lightened the mood

[Maguire01]

Some people then began to suggest that we were stuck in the past in the north and i was highlighting certain areas of society in the north that still hasn't moved on.

Of which you are one?  (<genuine question, not a dig)

[winsamsoon]

Could you rephrase this question maguire? are you looking to know have i moved on??

[Maguire01]

Could you rephrase this question maguire? are you looking to know have i moved on??

Yes, you're saying that certain sections of society in the north still 'haven't moved on'/ are 'stuck in the past'. You're opposition to 'Princess Anne in Croke Park' would suggest you fall into this category, yet you seem to keep suggesting that these 'certain sections' don't necessarily reflect your position.

I was just wondering how you viewed yourself in this respect?  Do you acknowledge that you 'haven't moved on' and are 'stuck in the past'?  If so, fair enough.  If not, i was just interested in how you view your own position.

[red hander]

Some Northerners seem to forget a bloody civil war was fought over the north. Perhaps those in the south of an older generation might take offence at some of the comments by Northerners like winsamsoon.

As for the generations since the civil war, what is it exactly that you would have us do ? What happened in the 1920's happened..its easy now to say that the south should have fought on but people get tired of war and its difficult to keep fighting when you are fighting for something that is, relatively, far away. Even if Ireland had united at that time there probably would have still been a troubles as the protestant "minority" fought on. No matter what way you look at you were going to be stuck in a bitter bloodletting.

The only people that can solve the troubles in the north are the people in the north and there really isnt much real "help" the south, or even the British, can give (if there was a time machine they themeselves would probably go back and shoot William of Orange and those before him that got them into the sorry mess). So no amount of whinging at us is going to help your situation. From my vantage point things have improved a lot in the North. Obviously you, on the ground, can see its not perfect but it would be better if you could clarify what "help" the south can give instead of whinging at us.

Mike, incredibly, unbelievably  simplistic, even by your standards ... how does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by Irish republicans?  We wouldn't know up here...

[winsamsoon]

To be brutally honest maguire i would say i have moved on some issues but there are still some issues that i simply cannot conceed at this moment in time. It simply boils down to a conflict of interests. Unionist want to remain part of Britain and i simply want to secure unification. This conflict of interests in leading two sets of people down two different roads. There is no simple answer to the problem in the north and in all honestly myself personally will probably never move on regarding some aspects but it would be for valid reasons and certainly not based on hatred or war. What seems to come across all the time is that we all wanted a war up here, this was simply untrue. If we could have had peace we would have taken it but it simply wasn't achievable again because of the complexedy of the conflict of interests. So i guess  would say i would be quite liberal and have moved on in some respects but there are just somethings that i hold to sacred to trade in. After all society should be inclusive of all, this means trying to live together. The GAA would be one of these things. Unionists see the GAA as a bigoted organisation and we all know this simply ain't true but it is issues like this that make change that little bit harder.

[Maguire01]

So lets show them we're not bigoted?  Lets not make a fuss when someone like Anne visits?  She (and her family) are irrelevant to most British people, so why should we make any unnecessary fuss over her visit?

[Mike Sheehy]

Mike, incredibly, unbelievably  simplistic, even by your standards

Go on, explain all the complexities to me so red hander. You lads seem to have a very simplistic view of the south and what it should have done, or what it should be doing, in relation to the north. If your not prepared to put yourself in our shoes then dont be surprised if we get tired of hearing what you "expect" of us.

[stevetharlear]

One of the downsides to the opening up of Croke Park (and I say this as someone who was broadly in favour of it) are all these bloody 'firsts'. First match, first match against a British team, first soccer match, first soccer match against a British team, first visit from a Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, first decent attendance from Cork outside an All-Ireland final . . .

And that elusive first AI win this lifetime for the Deise... only kidding, sure that'll never happen.

[stephenite]

Mike, incredibly, unbelievably  simplistic, even by your standards ... how does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by Irish republicans?  We wouldn't know up here...

I'm not trying to stir here, but I know that honestly Red Hander, there are a huge amount of people in the Republic/Free State/Down South that couldn't care that you wouldn't know up there.