Princess Anne for Croke Park

[Zapatista]

Your spot on there stephenite but the previous post from Mike Sheehy shows that not only do some not care but some are so distant from the reality of what is going on that even if they did care it would be more harm than good. I can accept people not caring but to not care for the reason he gave is a bit mad really.

I refer to this -  Posted on: March 02, 2008, 02:07:15 AMPosted by: Mike Sheehy

[feetofflames]

Yip some would call Mike sheehy a sad bastard.  Im not sure if thats a little extreme though.

[Tankie]

I cannot believe that peopel actually got 15 pages out of such a pointless subject!

[winsamsoon]

Well tankie there in lies your ignorance and stupidy. Number 1 it is clearly not pointless as so many people have been commenting on it and number two you are posting on it, so how hypocritical  and silly does that make your last statement.  As regardes that post by Mikey sheehy, i actually think he raises some honest and valid points. It is up the folk in the north to sort it out because it is now our problem. I would have reservations over the causes of the conflict but, ie. it was the south that partitioned Ireland but we won't get into that. Maguire you are correct in what you say also, We should move on and to be honest i wouldn't have made a big fuss over the visit,  because i made my points whilst debating rule 42. I now have to accept that these things have and will happened (whether i like it or not) and i must try and get one with it but by christ it ain't easy. I also acknowledge what stephenite is saying when he says that certain southern folk wouldn't give a damn and this is a general consensus in the north aswell. We know that the South could do without us but this is our culture and identity. To deny someone this would be very very wrong. To totally turn your back on fellow country men in my eyes is an absolute disgrace and kinda like 1921 when we were partitioned. It is clear that the same attitudes still exist in the south ( and i don't mean that in a bad way towards you stephenite). Tankie as this post is pointless you won't be reading this.

[Nally Stand]

Some Northerners seem to forget a bloody civil war was fought over the north. Perhaps those in the south of an older generation might take offence at some of the comments by Northerners like winsamsoon.

As for the generations since the civil war, what is it exactly that you would have us do ? What happened in the 1920's happened..its easy now to say that the south should have fought on but people get tired of war and its difficult to keep fighting when you are fighting for something that is, relatively, far away. Even if Ireland had united at that time there probably would have still been a troubles as the protestant "minority" fought on. No matter what way you look at you were going to be stuck in a bitter bloodletting.

The only people that can solve the troubles in the north are the people in the north and there really isnt much real "help" the south, or even the British, can give (if there was a time machine they themeselves would probably go back and shoot William of Orange and those before him that got them into the sorry mess). So no amount of whinging at us is going to help your situation. From my vantage point things have improved a lot in the North. Obviously you, on the ground, can see its not perfect but it would be better if you could clarify what "help" the south can give instead of whinging at us.

Mike, If you weren't taking your history lessons from the Michael Collins film you would know that the Civil War wasn't fought over the north but was in fact fought over the issue of the oath of allegience. The issue of the north was not the driving force behind the civil war. Furthermore, the attitude in your posting of an "Us and "Them" in reguards to the north and south demonstrates the partitionist attitude rampant in the 26 counties. While I'm not wishing to go into a rant about the past, the issue of this British monarch visiting Croke pPark was still a big problem for many many Irish people given that the British government has yet to come clean about it's dirty role in the war in the 6 counties. Givin the ties between the British monarchy and the British Army, is it any wonder that the sight of a member of the British monarch in Croke Park causes upset? (Especially when we consider such things as how the British monarchy honoured the british paras who murdered 14 civil rights marchers in Derry.) Perhaps when the British government come clean about their role in Ireland and apologise then I suspect such visits would not be a problem.

[Hardy]

Members of the British Government and the British parliament (who would have had a more direct influence on British Army activities in the North than a little ould wan in a scarf), have attended Croke Park for GAA matches and I don't remember sensitive souls having great difficulties coping with that.

[Zapatista]

To be fair I don't believe much of the discussion here is in direct relation to a Royal visit to Croke Park. It is the underlying issues and the reactions to them which has taken this thread to a point where the initial discussion is lost and almost irelevant. Every journey starts with one step.

[winsamsoon]

yeah but it is just not enough to state opposition to the visit the reasons why are the most important part of the argument. Some posters have merly came on and argued with other people who have raised valid points. Thye have given no opinion on the subject but just continued to lambast others for their opinion. So we should all state our view on it and then the issues for thinking the way we do. But the majority of the points actually raised have been relevant.

[zoyler]

And who is to come clean first?  The British Goverment or our local 'heros'.  If there is to an accounting for all the goverment did surely we should also get an accounting for all the fine houses that now dominate border areas and belong to families with little visible means of support.  Its hardly all down to money from America or whatever.  Maybe they will start with that unfortunate murder - sorry killing  in North Monaghan.  Ye - sure.

[Zapatista]

And who is to come clean first?  The British Goverment or our local 'heros'.  If there is to an accounting for all the goverment did surely we should also get an accounting for all the fine houses that now dominate border areas and belong to families with little visible means of support.  Its hardly all down to money from America or whatever.  Maybe they will start with that unfortunate murder - sorry killing  in North Monaghan.  Ye - sure.

That is the worst attempt of an excuse for anyone to not come clean I've ever heard. Everyone must admit the part they played and everyone must do it together.



The people of those areas ( who where amoung the biggest victims) are the people calling the loudest for truth comission. The silence is coming from the Brits, The Dublin Government and most Unionists.

[pintsofguinness]

And who is to come clean first?  The British Goverment or our local 'heros'.  If there is to an accounting for all the goverment did surely we should also get an accounting for all the fine houses that now dominate border areas and belong to families with little visible means of support.  Its hardly all down to money from America or whatever.  Maybe they will start with that unfortunate murder - sorry killing  in North Monaghan.  Ye - sure.

What exactly are you suggesting or indeed how is it relevant?
Do you see a nice house in a border area and assume the person who lives there is a criminal?  Are you aware that if these people are making their money dishonestly they are accountable to the law unlike the British Government and their various terrorist organisations.

[zoyler]

How is it relevant
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[pintsofguinness]

How is it relevant
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It's not relevant to any sort of truth commission because anyone earning money dishonestly is answerable to the law.

[zoyler]

Ye - anserable to the law just like those people who carried out the murder are answerable.  I suppose all those people involved in smugging diesel & petrol and pirating DVDs and making hooch whoich is then bottled in counterfit Vodka bottles are all living in council houses or caravans on the side ofthe road while all the paramilitaries are engaged in peace and reconcilia\tion studies.  The hypocracy of so many fellow northerners who drape themselves in the cloak of republicanism and spout the words while engaging in the most foul sectarian and criminal activity while wallowing in victimhood make me sick.

[pintsofguinness]

The hypocracy of so many fellow northerners who drape themselves in the cloak of republicanism and spout the words while engaging in the most foul sectarian and criminal activity while wallowing in victimhood make me sick.

I agree.

Ye - anserable to the law just like those people who carried out the murder are answerable. I suppose all those people involved in smugging diesel & petrol and pirating DVDs and making hooch whoich is then bottled in counterfit Vodka bottles are all living in council houses or caravans on the side ofthe road while all the paramilitaries are engaged in peace and reconcilia\tion studies.

Yeah, are you suggesting they're not?
I'm sure anyone smuggling etc aren't living in caravans, what's your point?