Author Topic: American Sports Thread  (Read 657674 times)

magpie seanie

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12810 on: November 20, 2019, 12:48:18 PM »
Agreed , OíBrien is hardly in the top tier of NFL coaches. As for Kap ever being regarded in the same league as Watson, Jackson and Mahomes, ah lad wil ya stop. He played 6 seasons in the NFL and only once ( barely at that ) was his QB rating over the league average of 92. His career QB completion % is about 59. He came into a team that were at that time the BEST team in the NFC.  Maybe he was blackballed out of the league l but we are talking about is he good enough  to start for an NFL team . He might be better potentially than a few currently starting, but having been out of the league 3 years , and the circus that would inevitably follow him, would you want him leading your team ?


When he signed his record contract after taking the 49ers to the Superbowl and then the NFC championship game the following year he was a superstar. He has a 4-2 record in the playoff with only one game at home of those 6. I don't know how you can say the 49ers were the best in the NFC when he came into the team. The only time they won the NFC was when he was QB. They had lost the NFC Championship game the previous year. Things didn't go so well after this for many reasons but at that time Kaepernick was thought of very highly. And intersting to see you only judge him on his throwing stats.....clearly that's a bit disingenuous.

Clov

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12811 on: November 20, 2019, 05:05:35 PM »
I'm a 49ers fan and probably watched most of kaepernick's games for the Niners and i would lean towards Seanie's view on Kaep.

The idea that he lost his job to Blaine Gabbert is a bit of false narrative. After starting the first half of the 2015 season with Gabbert as his back-up he went on IR after week 9 to have shoulder surgery. He had more surgery in the off-season and had reportedly lost weight and muscle mass by training camp and so Gabbert started the season. Predictably it went terrible and Kaepernick came in after a 5 or 6 weeks and played the season out. He outperformed Gabbert statistically in all categories bar sacks (a common issue with mobile QBs).

I think the main problem for Kaep in evaluating his worth as a QB is that he has a very odd career trajectory. He won the Niners starting job when Alex Smith went out with a concussion and subsequently outperformed Smith (who was having his best ever season up till that point) the rest of the year, taking the Niners to within one play of a Superbowl win. The following season the Niners went to the NFC championship and came within a Richard Sherman finger tip of reaching the Superbowl again. That NFC championship was an incredible game, one the best i've ever seen. He made some astounding plays in that game - the touchdown to Anquan Boldin over Earl Thomas in particular sticks in the mind. At that point in his career, he and Wilson were neck and neck in terms of their development and i think the comparison with were Jackson and Watson are now is valid.

This is when it starts to go wrong for him. The following season was Harbaugh's final year - Kaep played ok as i recall but that Niners team was starting to unravel with a lot of retirement, not to mention the standoff between harbaugh the front office and ownership. Kaep's final two seasons with niners were not good but as Seanie said there were mitigating circumstances - Tomsula was completely out of his depth as HC and then Chip Kelly was a busted flush by the time he landed in SF - the Niners went 2-14 and everyone got fired.

In my opinion, in footballing terms he is good enough to be in the league. In the right system his ceiling is high. The Panthers should have had a go with him when Newton went down. Tampa is another spot were he would be a significant upgrade over the starter. He'd make an excellent back-up for teams like the Texans or Ravens. If you think he is just 'not worth the hassle of the circus and attention he would bring' to paraphrase a few on here, then i think that says more about your attitude to his political cause than it does about his footballing ability. The NFL is a circus - that's the whole point of it. Decrying Kaep's activism for the unwanted attention it brings just rings hollow when you consider just how much soft power politics the NFL engages in with things like military and veterans support.   

That he is being blackballed is beyond contention - Bill Barnwell had a remarkable stat on this. Kaep was 29 years old when he last started a game. Since 1970 not one single NFL QB that started a game aged 29 failed to subsequently make it onto an NFL roster (barring gambling addiction i think).
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Minder

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12812 on: November 20, 2019, 06:02:59 PM »
Clov I appreciate what you are saying but those last two few seasons were terrible from Kaep, and I was a fan at a stage, and you can talk about the situation he was in there are plenty of shitty situations in the NFL for a QB, it doesent mean your play regresses so badly.

When you look at his PFF stats that I mentioned the other day, and I know everyone isnít a fan of it but plenty of NFL teams use it now, *every* throw is graded, takes into account drops etc (no excuses basically) those last two seasons were abysmal. I think the boat has sailed for him, no way a player has improved after 3 seasons out of the NFL. He was very good at a time but that time has long passed.

This is from 4 years ago -

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000572076/article/niners-bench-colin-kaepernick-blaine-gabbert-to-start
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:15:39 PM by Minder »
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Clov

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12813 on: November 20, 2019, 06:18:57 PM »
Clov I appreciate what you are saying but those last two few seasons were terrible from Kaep, and I was a fan at a stage, and you can talk about the situation he was in there are plenty of shitty situations in the NFL for a QB, it doesent mean your play regresses so badly.

When you look at his PFF stats that I mentioned the other day, and I know everyone isnít a fan of it but plenty of NFL teams use it now, *every* throw is graded, takes into account drops etc (no excuses basically) those last two seasons were abysmal. I think the boat has sailed for him, no way a player has improved after 3 seasons out of the NFL. He was very good at a time but that time has long passed.

I would concede were he to be given a chance that you might be proven right. But the problem is that he has not been given an opportunity to prove his worth one way or another - when career duds like Gabbert are still making a living in the league. Sure, he might flame out again but teams regularly invest hope and money in QB's with thinner resumes than Kaep (Case Keenam, Foles).
"One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit"

cadhlancian

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12814 on: November 21, 2019, 03:28:32 AM »
By the way Clov , itís nothing to do with my personal political opinion . I didnít say that , I said that the circus following him around waiting for a misstep would be inevitable, which is a fact. I didnít say I thought this should happen, merely stating the obvious. My point is , would there be enough upside for a GM to overlook it? Would a head coach or GM or owner like the attention? Heíd have plenty of supporters , but heíd also have plenty of detractors as well.

Gmac

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12815 on: November 21, 2019, 04:34:02 AM »
All you would hear about before and after games would be is he going to kneel for the national anthem ,teams and the nfl are trying to put that in the rear view mirror, the nfl his potential employer donít want him doing that on their time so he can protest at home or stand up and play , right now kneeling is more important so he can stay at home.

Farrandeelin

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12816 on: November 24, 2019, 11:46:05 PM »
How are the Steelers in playoff position when there are 2 more teams on 6-5 as well.
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cadhlancian

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12817 on: November 25, 2019, 12:57:03 AM »
They own the head to head against the Colts and have a better AFC record than the Titans .

Farrandeelin

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12818 on: November 25, 2019, 09:25:11 AM »
Ah ok thanks for that. I'm a late late converted NFL addict.
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gallsman

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12819 on: November 26, 2019, 07:22:51 AM »
Lamar.
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Gmac

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12820 on: November 26, 2019, 04:55:52 PM »
Lamar.
kapernick 2.0 a haurbagh head coach , Greg Roman as oc 

cadhlancian

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12821 on: November 26, 2019, 10:49:13 PM »
Ah f**k me , hope thatís a joke Kap 2.0....... Lamar on a completely different level.

lurganblue

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12822 on: November 28, 2019, 01:00:56 PM »
Kittle is running around with a broken bone in his foot. Should he not be rested for the playoffs? Is it worth the risk playing him in the hunt for number 1 seed?

screenexile

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12823 on: November 29, 2019, 12:10:39 AM »
How much longer before Garrett is put out of his misery??

Capt Pat

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Re: American Sports Thread
« Reply #12824 on: November 29, 2019, 01:15:44 AM »
Garrett shouldn't be fired until the end of the season if that is what they want.