The IRA does everything...

[Chrisowc]

Ok Donagh, lets blame the Brits.

Well given the actions of the IRA long before they completed decommissioning, the acceptance of the PSNI, and all that would be placed at risk by sanctioning this, blaming the Brits is a lot more credible than blaming the IRA. Personally my own inclination would be to blame the only group in South Armagh still be running about with weapons, acting like cowboys and smuggling cigarettes and diesel – and Jim McAllister would know them boys very well.

Actions such as the Bank or Robert McCartney for example?

[Donagh]

I'm not claiming any knowledge of this but surely this

blaming the Brits is a lot more credible than blaming the IRA

is preposterous?

Which is exactly the point heganboy

[thebandit]

It seems to me that there is little doubt that people with republican links were responsible - there is a doubt however whether it was a sanctioned attack

[lynchbhoy]

 and it doesnt matter what he did to 'provoke' them - his death was a disgrace.
the fellas who killed the young lad are acting upon their own gangs directives, and not directives from IRA or army council.

there is still a gang in south armagh that seem to operate under the guise of being IRA - which some of them were, but appears that they were always only interested in their own personal gain.

to say they are still 'IRA' men (the ones tthat potentially were) is wrong.

If the IRA were still about, they would and should have dealt with this band of cowboy killers a long time ago.

It is the same as the mccartney killing- nothing to do with the IRA.

this kind of petty personal sh*t doesnt get sanctioned.

that gang needs to be sorted out though, whether by similar methods, or the psni finally getting off their holes and doing their jobs.

Its notable that they refuse to police properly in areas like this and Derry city.

[Candyman]

Talking through your hole 5Times. Individuals may have been involved or this guys employees but the IRA were not involved.

Sure they can't have been involved they don't exist, any more. 

They exist alright Sammy only:

1. they don't act as anyones personal hit squad
2. they don't 'do' punishment beatings or threats

FFS i've heard it all now, Donagh away and catch urself on will ye???

[Gnevin]

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew......

[Yer Ma]

Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams ........ described the killers as "criminals".

No flies on Gerry.

As a side issue to this, what does the IRA actually do nowadays given the armed struggle is apparently over? Beat people up for old times sake, or is it just a drinking club the way it used to be before they all got serious?

[Donagh]

Talking through your hole 5Times. Individuals may have been involved or this guys employees but the IRA were not involved.

Sure they can't have been involved they don't exist, any more. 

They exist alright Sammy only:

1. they don't act as anyones personal hit squad
2. they don't 'do' punishment beatings or threats

FFS i've heard it all now, Donagh away and catch urself on will ye???

In what way. When was the last time the IRA killed someone?

[heganboy]

Which is exactly the point heganboy

what is the probability that the Brits lured a guy to a punishment beating and then killed him and dumped the body over the border while at the same time convinced the local community that it was well known republicans who may or may not have acted under sanction from the IRA.


On another note- how do people decide it was the IRA? do they need some sort of faxed authorisation or an emailed order form? My accountant/ CEO wont accept anything else.
Is it enough that someone who was once in the IRA was present? seriously how does this get labeled as an "IRA activity"

[Donagh]

what is the probability that the Brits lured a guy to a punishment beating and then killed him and dumped the body over the border while at the same time convinced the local community that it was well known republicans who may or may not have acted under sanction from the IRA.

Little to none

On another note- how do people decide it was the IRA? do they need some sort of faxed authorisation or an emailed order form? My accountant/ CEO wont accept anything else.

They submit to whatever brand of dissident who happens to offer them the best oral pleasure, in this case, Jim Allister and Jim McAllister.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I know a man in North Belfast and he was having bother with anti-social behaviour (said man was a former combatant and well connected) he went to West Belfast to get "help" and was informed that this cannot be done anymore. Was told to use the police, now said man took matters into his own hands and "resolved" the situation himself, this could have been spun to suit any agenda, given his history.
It suits people to blame the IRA on this occasion, for many reasons.
Instead of casting wild accusations everyone should be doing their utmost to hunt down and catch the perpetrators of this heinous crime !!

[Orior]

I know a man in North Belfast and he was having bother with anti-social behaviour (said man was a former combatant and well connected) he went to West Belfast to get "help" and was informed that this cannot be done anymore. Was told to use the police, now said man took matters into his own hands and "resolved" the situation himself, this could have been spun to suit any agenda, given his history.
It suits people to blame the IRA on this occasion, for many reasons.
Instead of casting wild accusations everyone should be doing their utmost to hunt down and catch the perpetrators of this heinous crime !!

Hmmm. I wouldnt mind having contact details if the former combatant just in case I ever need his services which I'd be willing to pay for. Why bother with the courts when the feckers dont even get a slap on the wrist. Instead they get:
- Free accommodation
- Fed and watered
- Access to gym facilities
- Personal social worker
etc etc

[Puckoon]

Murdered man in IRA-linked fights 

Gardai have been carrying out searches at the murder scene
A man savagely beaten to death had been involved in two fights with people linked to high-ranking republicans, a former Sinn Fein member has said.
Jim McAllister said the family of Paul Quinn, from Cullyhanna, believed the IRA had abducted and murdered him.

Mr Quinn, 21, was found at farm buildings at Tullycoora near Oram in County Monaghan on Saturday.

On Monday, Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams said republicans were not involved in the murder.

The DUP has said conclusive IRA involvement "could mean the collapse of the political institutions".

However, Mr Adams said: "Others may want to play politics with this dreadful murder. I don't and I won't."

"There is no republican involvement whatsoever in this man's murder and all of us should be careful that we don't end up playing politics with what is a dreadful, criminal action."


Mr Quinn was found at farm buildings near the village of Oram

He said whoever was responsible for the killing should be brought to justice.

Mr McAllister, a member of the 1982 NI Assembly, said the murdered man had received two threats from republicans.

Mr McAllister said the killing had been "a brutal slaughter" by a gang wielding iron bars.

He said two men who worked on the farm had been tied up and forced to phone Mr Quinn to lure him to the area.

'Serious implications'


"He went to the farm with a friend... they separated Paul Quinn from the other three," said Mr McAllister.

He said he did not want to speak on radio about the reports he had heard about the beating Mr Quinn had received in the barn.


The victim had been involved in fights with the son of a leading republican and an associate of high-ranking republicans, he said.


Mr Quinn was beaten by up to 15 men in a barn

DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson said if it was found that the IRA were involved in the murder it would have serious implications.

"If the IRA were corporately involved in this murder, that may mean that the executive is finished in its current form.

"But we do not yet know and we have to wait until we get all of the facts - but it could mean the collapse of the political institutions.

"That has happened before - it may happen again."



1. Its understandable that given the circumstances, an emotional family will point the finger at, and sweepingly use the statement "The IRA were involved"

2. How does Gerry Adams know that no republicans were involved? Thats pretty sweeping also.

3. Organisation of a plan like that takes a fair degree of calmness, planning and calculated coldness - again not something the average thug off the street might have the criminal brain, contacts or courage to plan. Someone here had done this kind of thing before.

4. Beaten by 15 men - thats a high ratio of non republicans (from a highly republican area) beating up someone who recently had fights with high ranking republicans in the area. Still though, It could be a coincidence.

5. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that IRA men (past, or present) may have been involved in this?  Is it totally unplausable that they acted without higher authority? Is it also ridiculous to think that although this wasnt a sanctioned IRA operation that they will recieve protection from the IRA in terms of a communities silence? FFS, we've been down the same road a number of times in the  past, it always ends up the same. Theres a whole lot of boys on here kidding themselves, or washing blood off republican hands on TECHNICALITIES.

[Evil Genius]

Ok Donagh, lets blame the Brits.

Well given the actions of the IRA long before they completed decommissioning, the acceptance of the PSNI, and all that would be placed at risk by sanctioning this, blaming the Brits is a lot more credible than blaming the IRA. Personally my own inclination would be to blame the only group in South Armagh still be running about with weapons, acting like cowboys and smuggling cigarettes and diesel – and Jim McAllister would know them boys very well.

So then, Donagh, there are two possible Groups who might be able to muster 15 people in South Armagh to engage in activity of this type.

The first is that to which you allude above ("known" to Jim McAllister, as it were). This Group, engaged in out-and-out criminality, with access to guns etc, declines just to send a couple of people out to ambush him some evening, put a bullet through his brain, then dump him over the border. Instead, they engage in an elaborate plan, involving 15 people or more and taking hours to commit, with all the forensics etc which that produces, plus the increased risk of interception by the police (however slim), so as to hammer him to death with iron bars. It is possible, I suppose.

Meanwhile, you discount completely the possibility of the other "Group" of likely suspects thereabouts having committed this outrage, even though they have publicly foresworn the use of guns on people with whom they disagree. Or that prominent members of this "Group" were said to have fallen out with the victim prior to his having been murdered. Or that the victim's family believe this "Group" did it. I guess that is just possible, too...

Will you be starting a "Justice for Paul Quinn" Website anytime soon, by any chance? Or will we have to wait 25 years for that?

[theskull1]

I know a man in North Belfast and he was having bother with anti-social behaviour (said man was a former combatant and well connected) he went to West Belfast to get "help" and was informed that this cannot be done anymore. Was told to use the police, now said man took matters into his own hands and "resolved" the situation himself, this could have been spun to suit any agenda, given his history.
It suits people to blame the IRA on this occasion, for many reasons.
Instead of casting wild accusations everyone should be doing their utmost to hunt down and catch the perpetrators of this heinous crime !!

Think this is the crux of this debate. Just because like minded people (with republican allegiances) carried this out (allegedly) doesn't mean it would have been sanctioned at any level within republican hierarchies. If thats the case they are just criminals not republican criminals. If the republican leadership are calling for anyone with information to give it to the police then what more can they do? Am I missing something?