Man Utd Thread:

[Rafa]

I think the stats you're talking about showed that Wiley covered more ground in that Sunderland game than seven of Uniteds starting eleven.

[Rudigar]

I think the stats you're talking about showed that Wiley covered more ground in that Sunderland game than seven of Uniteds starting eleven.

Sounds right.

Rambo, "why single out of one incident from one manager and ignore countless others?" – I think it is fair to say Ferguson is probably the worst offender in the Premiership. I think sympathy will be in short supply.

To show i'm not all anti-United, I see the officials are calling for a longer ban, I think it's fair enough.

[Rudigar]

If this isn't an acceptable level of fitness, my granny is a goat....

Alan Wiley, the official accused by Sir Alex Ferguson of not being fit enough to referee, ran farther than all but four Manchester United players during the 94 minutes of the game against Sunderland.

The FA has written to Ferguson asking him to explain his comments about Wiley by next Tuesday. The United manager could yet be charged with improper conduct.

Before he composes his reply, the Scot may want to consider that Wiley, The Times has learnt, outdistanced the average player in the 2-2 draw on Saturday by 205.8 metres. Refereeing officials believe that Wiley's official ProZone statistics from the match at Old Trafford "100 per cent" disprove Ferguson's claims that the Staffordshire referee "just wasn't fit enough".

Wiley covered 11,039.1 metres, the eighth farthest of any individual on the pitch. "Eighth is entirely credible," a refereeing source said yesterday. "He had a bloody good game."

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Wiley the scapegoat for Ferguson's mistakes
ProZone shows that only four United players and three from Sunderland ran farther than Wiley, 49. His average distance from the ball was 17.7 metres. Elite referees in England are allowed an average of up to 20 metres.

Concern is growing among the close-knit refereeing fraternity about the long-term effects of constant criticism from managers, especially Ferguson. Several leading referees, including Graham Poll and Mike Riley, have retired in recent years in part because of the persistent sniping.

"They're getting sick of it," a senior refereeing source said last night. "Ferguson is the past master. It deflects any criticism from his team and players and he succeeds every time. Why doesn't he just talk to the match delegate?"

The Times has also discovered that Wiley's fitness was assessed more recently than most of his colleagues in the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) select group of referees. The officials take a challenging test of their fitness twice a year and if they fail either they are not permitted to referee.

Wiley was on holiday in July and was not tested until August. Since he passed, his level of fitness is, in theory, less questionable than those of younger referees, despite the fact that he is the oldest of the group.

Wiley had been "very upset" at first, according to Dermot Gallagher, the former referee who was his mentor when he joined the select group in 1999. "He is the most competitive guy that I have ever met in my life," Gallagher said. "I used to think that I was one of the fittest Premier League referees and if he thought I could run a yard more than him in training it would break his heart.

"He really is the consummate professional. Of all the referees that someone could lay this criticism at, it really is the wrong one. It is a massive sting to your pride, especially for someone who really does pride himself on looking after himself.

"I thought he had a fantastic game, I really did. I really do think it was a comment that can't be substantiated."

Expert evidence confirms the referees' opinion. "Ferguson is creating a doubt in people's minds over the fitness of Alan Wiley where none probably existed," Dr Martin Roderick, a member of the sport, health and policy research group at the University of Durham and a former Kettering Town midfield player, said.

"One of the only givens we have about the body is that it does deteriorate with time; there is a well-understood age at which referees know their time is running out. But I don't think there was anything in what Ferguson was saying.

"The game ebbs and flows and everybody on the pitch will be more or less exhausted at various times. Alan Wiley, like an older player such as Teddy Sheringham, will have learnt to play the game his way, to understand the patterns of the game — where they can take a breather and when he really needs to keep up. A younger, less experienced referee will tend to run more."

Roderick's view is supported by a study undertaken in 2008 by PGMOL and sport scientists in Italy and Switzerland, using data on the performance of 22 referees aged between 31 and 48 in 778 Premier League matches over four seasons.

The findings suggested that older referees were able to use experience to cover for the loss of a yard or so of pace. Despite covering less ground and performing fewer sprints, referees in the 43-48 age group were able to maintain an average distance from fouls that was comparable to that recorded by the youngest referees.

Wiley has to pass the same strenuous pre and mid-season tests as Stuart Attwell, 26, the youngest of the elite referees. Stamina is tested by a 3,000-metre run that must be completed in less than 12 minutes.

Capacity for coping with change of pace is assessed by a test in which referees alternately run 150 metres and walk 50 metres, repeating the sequence 20 times. The 150-metre runs must be completed in 30 seconds, with 35 seconds allowed for the 50-metre walk.

Six 40-metre sprints must be completed in less than 6.20sec each — assistant referees have only 6.00, with only a minute's rest between sprints. Referees can repeat one sprint if they fail to complete it within the time, but only one.

[TheGreatRambo]

U like ur statistics Rudigar  , It doesn't matter if Wiley ran more than all the players on the pitch (I reckon I could run further than Berba by the way) thats not the point I'm making. Managers and players abuse refs every week why suddenly and randomly pick out one incident rather than clamping down properly on the issue. In between kissing Fergies arse in that column I think Winter does try and say that.

[EC Unique]

JUVENTUS and AC Milan are set to battle it out for unhappy Manchester United ace Nani.
Both Italian giants are keeping tabs on the Portugal winger's situation after he launched a scathing attack on manager Alex Ferguson.

Nani, 22, claimed Fergie has mis-managed him.

Juve are keen on a January swoop and could even attempt a loan deal with an option to buy at the end of the season for around £15million.

Boss Ciro Ferrara wants a winger who is versatile and can play on either flank.

Milan are looking at an end-of- season deal for Nani for around the same fee to replace England star David Beckham once his six-month loan from LA Galaxy expires.

Nani has so far failed to live up to expectations at Old Trafford since moving from Sporting Lisbon in June 2007.

[mountainboii]

JUVENTUS and AC Milan are set to battle it out for unhappy Manchester United ace Nani.
Both Italian giants are keeping tabs on the Portugal winger's situation after he launched a scathing attack on manager Alex Ferguson.

Nani, 22, claimed Fergie has mis-managed him.

Juve are keen on a January swoop and could even attempt a loan deal with an option to buy at the end of the season for around £15million.

Boss Ciro Ferrara wants a winger who is versatile and can play on either flank.

Milan are looking at an end-of- season deal for Nani for around the same fee to replace England star David Beckham once his six-month loan from LA Galaxy expires.

Nani has so far failed to live up to expectations at Old Trafford since moving from Sporting Lisbon in June 2007.

Wouldn't know about £15million, but I reckon £10-12million would be realistic enough. The wee bollix will probably go on to be a world beater.

[slow corner back]

Nani has had a lot of chances at OT and has failed to take them. With Obertan and Tosic both challenging for the same position it appears Nani is starting to feel the heat and is angling for a move. If anyone were to offer over £10 million bite their hand off. Nani has been at OT fot 2 and a half years now, if he signed a four year contract he will not have long left so £10-15M seems unrealistic. Has he signed a further contract ot OT or is he too young for a Bosman?

[mountainboii]

He signed a 5 year contract apparently. Makes it a easier to get a bit of money out of him as he'll still have 2 years left on it next summer. Can't see him being sold before then, CL clubs won't want him at Christmas so you'd just be left with a few cut price offers.

[stew]

JUVENTUS and AC Milan are set to battle it out for unhappy Manchester United ace Nani.
Both Italian giants are keeping tabs on the Portugal winger's situation after he launched a scathing attack on manager Alex Ferguson.

Nani, 22, claimed Fergie has mis-managed him.

Juve are keen on a January swoop and could even attempt a loan deal with an option to buy at the end of the season for around £15million.

Boss Ciro Ferrara wants a winger who is versatile and can play on either flank.

Milan are looking at an end-of- season deal for Nani for around the same fee to replace England star David Beckham once his six-month loan from LA Galaxy expires.

Nani has so far failed to live up to expectations at Old Trafford since moving from Sporting Lisbon in June 2007.

Wouldn't know about £15million, but I reckon £10-12million would be realistic enough. The wee bollix will probably go on to be a world beater.

he must be a hell of a prospect but from what i have seen he is brutal, maybe he isnt cut out for the english gameand a spell in italy or even better Spain might suit him. I dont rate him at all at this stage and he has to go down as one of fergusons worst ever signing given the money spent on him.

[slow corner back]

You are obviously too young to remember Ralph Milne 

[TheGreatRambo]

You are obviously too young to remember Ralph Milne 

I'm not, had the pleasure of seeing him in the flesh several times. Truly awful. He stood out as being poor even in a bad United side. In fairness to the fella I read an interview with him several years later where he said he couldn't believe his luck that he was playing for United

[Goats Do Shave]

I think the stats you're talking about showed that Wiley covered more ground in that Sunderland game than seven of Uniteds starting eleven.

Doesn't mean he was in the right positions! Anyone could do laps of a field!

[supersarsfields]

I think the stats you're talking about showed that Wiley covered more ground in that Sunderland game than seven of Uniteds starting eleven.

Doesn't mean he was in the right positions! Anyone could do laps of a field!

But that's not what fergie was complaining about.

[Goats Do Shave]

Your mind has to stay alert when your fit! 

[EC Unique]

Ferguson handed Everton reprieve 


Sir Alex Ferguson will be in the dugout for Manchester United's Premier League clash with Everton on Saturday despite being hit with a two-match suspension.

United's boss was punished for comments on referee Alan Wiley's fitness after a 2-2 draw with Sunderland in October.

But the Football Association said that the ban does not start until 14 days after last week's disciplinary hearing.

Ferguson will sit in the stands at Portsmouth on 28 November and again for the Carling Cup tie with Tottenham.

So he is in the stand against bottom of the table Portsmouth and for a Carling cup match.

Shocking stuff