Man Utd Thread:

[RadioGAAGAA]

Starting to understand the genuine anger Man Utd supporters feel towards the Glazers. Looking into them it's staggering what the PL have allowed them to do. All the talk of the shady dealings of City. Fair enough they broke rules. But they pumped in their own money and they heavily invested in the area. Good owners. For me what the Glazers have done is far far worse.

The numbers:
-They put up £270m of their own money in initial takeover and not a penny since. Between dividends and share sales they have since taken out £1.35bn of pure cash. They have paid, zero, ZERO tax on this profit to HMRC.
-They still own £4bn effective equity in the club. Theoretically they can sell this as pure profit and walk away with cash for themselves and again not pay a single penny to HMRC.
-The debt they created to buy their stake they walk away from. It's club debt. They are completely free of any obligation to this.
It's scandalous.

I know I said relegation or going bust is not an option for Utd but it's what the Glazers deserve. They should not get one penny more from the club. They are parasites. INEOS are getting stick at the moment but they paid £1.5bn of real cash, their own cash, to run this shitshow. I actually feel sorry for them. Glazers have them over a barrel.

The game really is corrupt to the core. All the talk about rules and City at the moment but realistically it's the Glazers and people like them who decide, or at least have a bigger say that most, in how the PL rules are written and implemented. Rotten to the core. Thank God it's a dodgy box I use.

Andy Burnham could make himself pretty popular across England by putting a serious tightening of rules in place to stop shite like this... and retrospectively pull money from the fukkers.

[Cunny Funt]

It started with a horse and Ferguson's greed.

Martin Edwards floating the club on the London Stock Exchange as a Public Limited Company in the 90s is what started it, a decision that permanently altered the club's ownership structure. it made the club vulnerable to hostile or highly leveraged takeovers by transitioning it from a privately held family business into a publicly traded commodity

He tried to sell the club a few times, famously a £623 million deal to Rupert Murdoch's BSkyB in 1999 (which was blocked by the UK government on competition grounds).

Looking back even the clown Michael Knighton would have been a better fit than the Glazers and Jim who won't fix it.

The main good Edwards did was keeping Ferguson on when calls to get sacked before the FA Cup win in 1990.

Ferguson was so good he could still keep the club successful under awful Glazers ownership

I'm not convinced the problem is money. Uniteds budget is more than competitive. It's who they feel is worth the money that is the problem. Too many committees

The clubs own generated money squandered on poor transfers and ridiculous wages is the problem. The type of people in charge and in control of transfers players contracts makes a huge difference.  That has been seen with Hicks and Gillett who took control of Liverpool through a controversial leveraged buyout that nearly pushed the club into administration. They are in a far better place today with competent people running the club.

[shawshank]

Good summary 👆 basically fucked, over a horse

The story behind Sir Alex Ferguson and Manchester United's connection to a horse is one of the most famous and consequential off-pitch sagas in football history. A legal battle over a champion racehorse named Rock of Gibraltar inadvertently paved the way for the Glazer family's highly controversial takeover of Manchester United.
Here is how a dispute over horse racing altered the trajectory of one of the world's biggest football clubs:

1. The Seed of Friendship

In the late 1990s, Sir Alex Ferguson took up horse racing as a hobby to unwind from the immense pressure of managing Manchester United. Through the racing world, he became close friends with Irish billionaires John Magnier and J.P. McManus.
• Magnier was the kingpin behind Coolmore Stud, the most powerful racehorse breeding operation in the world.
• Around the same time, Magnier and McManus began aggressively buying shares in Manchester United through their investment vehicle, Cubic Expression, eventually becoming the club's largest shareholders with a 28.7% stake.

2. Enter Rock of Gibraltar

As a gesture of friendship, Magnier registered Ferguson as a co-owner of a promising horse named Rock of Gibraltar. The horse ran in Manchester United's famous red colours and proved to be an absolute superstar, winning a world-record seven consecutive Group One races between 2001 and 2002.
When Rock of Gibraltar retired to stud in late 2002, the horse's breeding rights were valued at an estimated £100 million to £200 million.

3. The Million-Pound Fallout

A major dispute arose over what Ferguson's "co-ownership" actually meant:
• Ferguson believed he had a verbal agreement giving him a 50% share of the horse's highly lucrative, lifelong stud fees.
• Magnier and Coolmore argued that Ferguson's name on the registration was merely a honorary gesture. They maintained he was only entitled to a share of the race prize money (around £800,000) and a few perks, not the generational wealth of the breeding rights, especially since Ferguson had never invested his own money into the horse.
Refusing to back down, Ferguson did the unthinkable: he sued his own club's majority shareholders in the Dublin High Court in 2003.

4. The Retaliation: "99 Questions"

Magnier and McManus did not take the lawsuit lightly. Instead of just fighting in court, they used their massive leverage as Manchester United's top shareholders to strike back at Ferguson's power within Old Trafford.
They submitted a formal list of 99 weaponised corporate governance questions to the Manchester United board. These questions heavily scrutinized the club's finances, player transfer dealings, and specifically targeted the role of Ferguson's son, Jason, who worked as a football agent involved in United transfers. The move caused immense internal chaos, fractured the board, and deeply threatened Ferguson's absolute control of the football side.

5. The Settlement and the Takeover

Realizing the collateral damage the feud was causing to the football club, an out-of-court settlement was reached in March 2004. Ferguson accepted a one-off payment of £2.5 million to drop all claims regarding the horse.
However, the damage to the relationship was irreversible. Thoroughly fed up with the club, the fans (who had protested at racing events against them), and Ferguson, Magnier and McManus decided to completely cash out of football.
In May 2005, they sold their entire 28.7% stake to American billionaire Malcolm Glazer. This block of shares gave Glazer the vital leverage he needed to complete a highly leveraged, debt-laden £790 million hostile takeover of Manchester United—plunging a previously debt-free club into financial liabilities that it is still paying off to this day.

[Look-Up!]

Andy Burnham could make himself pretty popular across England by putting a serious tightening of rules in place to stop shite like this... and retrospectively pull money from the fukkers.

Yep, should be hit with a massive tax bill. All dodgy AF shite ran through Cayman Island holdings companies.

American culture and way of doing business really is disgusting. It's robbery from society. They are not captains of industry. They are not even capitalists. Capitalists build capital and infrastructure to drive production and generate wealth. What this is is skimming off the top, sucking business dry and then hide it all offshore away from tax systems. It's a disgusting system where people like them add nothing but could walk away with £5.35bn profit from a company while leaving a >£1bn mess behind. Same system where Trump can walk into a casino with $900m of personal debt, and walk out again 10 years later debt free, $250m cash in the bank and Casino in ruins. Employee 401Ks wiped out and bond holders holding a $2bn loss. The system is a scam run by conmen. No wonder there is an affordability crisis while the haves are gorging on cake.

[Tony Baloney]

Andy Burnham could make himself pretty popular across England by putting a serious tightening of rules in place to stop shite like this... and retrospectively pull money from the fukkers.

Yep, should be hit with a massive tax bill. All dodgy AF shite ran through Cayman Island holdings companies.

American culture and way of doing business really is disgusting. It's robbery from society. They are not captains of industry. They are not even capitalists. Capitalists build capital and infrastructure to drive production and generate wealth. What this is is skimming off the top, sucking business dry and then hide it all offshore away from tax systems. It's a disgusting system where people like them add nothing but could walk away with £5.35bn profit from a company while leaving a >£1bn mess behind. Same system where Trump can walk into a casino with $900m of personal debt, and walk out again 10 years later debt free, $250m cash in the bank and Casino in ruins. Employee 401Ks wiped out and bond holders holding a $2bn loss. The system is a scam run by conmen. No wonder there is an affordability crisis while the haves are gorging on cake.

The fact that Jim Ratcliffe moved his tax domicile to Monaco should inform anyone that they're not dealing with an individual interested in the greater good of Man United, their fans or wider society.

[gawa316]

The owners are probably better off holding on to Carrick at the minute. He is the only person at the club that the fans seem to support, a few more bad results and that may change

[OakLeaf]

The owners are probably better off holding on to Carrick at the minute. He is the only person at the club that the fans seem to support, a few more bad results and that may change

Its a tricky one. Fans kind of support him but clearly the majority of the players dont. Don't get me wrong, the squad is full of wasters. Unfortunately I don't think there's going to be major progression until the leech owners are gone.

[Armamike]

Something like 12 managers (including interims) since Ferguson left. Some of these players must be on their 5th or 6th manager and it looks like they've downed tools on all of them. 

[Armagh18]

Something like 12 managers (including interims) since Ferguson left. Some of these players must be on their 5th or 6th manager and it looks like they've downed tools on all of them. 

Absolutely. Any of the long term players there either never were or/no longer good enough i.e. Dalot, Maguire although can't fault them for effort, Fernandes and Shaw have/had the talent but either down tools at the first sign of friction or get "injured" when the going gets tough, then you have Rashford who bar a few purple patches when he was looking a contract has been shite for years with a disgusting attitude.

Any manager is on a hiding to nothing if that is your leaders/experienced heads in the team, none of the above should be there next season and take Mazaouri, Zirkzee, Ugarte and probably Martinez with them. Rangick was right a few years ago

[laoislad]

Something like 12 managers (including interims) since Ferguson left. Some of these players must be on their 5th or 6th manager and it looks like they've downed tools on all of them. 

I remember being told on here when David Moyes was under pressure that they won't sack him as it's not the United way 😂
Now here we are over a decade later and they've had more managers than trophies in the last 10 years.

[Armagh18]

Something like 12 managers (including interims) since Ferguson left. Some of these players must be on their 5th or 6th manager and it looks like they've downed tools on all of them. 

I remember being told on here when David Moyes was under pressure that they won't sack him as it's not the United way 😂
Now here we are over a decade later and they've had more managers than trophies in the last 10 years.

Looking back now, I doubt they'd have been any worse off if they'd just kept Moyes....

[tiempo]

Moyes 6 year deal was cancelled the day he was mathematically unable to secure CL football that first season

Moyes fucked himself bringing Fellaini from Everton, pure shite and painfully obvious, disasterclass

It was also obvious the player he should have brought from Everton was Seamus Coleman, who in his prime and before the injury was one of the top right backs in Europe

Its got that bad 13 years later that a soon to be retired Coleman would be an upgrade at RB and bring some much needed maturity to a dressing room of minnows

As much as Utd aren't short of cash on hand, the thought of paying off Carrick and backroom team to hire 4 5 6 for a new mgmt ticket is Earthworm Jim's worst nightmare, I'd say his foray into football is running out of road, been badly exposed as out of his depth, fundamentally if he gave a f**k he'd be full time in Manchester, the fact he's domiciled overseas then nips into London for Utd meetings shows how detached he is from reality

[thewobbler]

Moyes was the wrong appointment and the Fellaini transfer was the wrong signal.

But pretty much every transfer United have made since Robin Van Persie was the wrong move.

Di Maria for a manager who doesn't play wingers.

Sancho and Antony when they already had Rashford, Martial, Garnacho.

Mason Mount, a spare wheel in just about every football formation. And his Dutch twin Van De Beek.

All those defenders bought between 2014 and 2018, for Mourinho to end up with Fergie's back 4 playing in the cup final.

Sesko and Hojlund, the target men who were never to be targeted.

Onana. Enough said.

You're pretty much at a point where most of the better transfers were experienced lads cashing in a final pay day.

They could write a book about this transfer "strategy". Actually, one line would do: do the opposite of Man Utd since 2014.

[Look-Up!]

Jonny Evans was a fair reflection on Utd trajectory. Rejected by club as not good enough when in his prime. Brought back 10 years later when crocked and became a regular in the team.

INEOS will regret their foray into Utd you'd feel as much as fans will regret them coming in. Despite their spiel they seem to seriously misunderstand the business. Looking at a loss of €300m with their Nice misadventure. Completely misinterpreting rules in European competitions for owners of same team. Not understanding real estate prices around OT. Assuming they could blag the taxman into building a stadium and thinking they could outswindle the Glazers. Cowboys Ted.

[AustinPowers]

Moyes was the wrong appointment and the Fellaini transfer was the wrong signal.

But pretty much every transfer United have made since Robin Van Persie was the wrong move.

Di Maria for a manager who doesn't play wingers.

Sancho and Antony when they already had Rashford, Martial, Garnacho.

Mason Mount, a spare wheel in just about every football formation. And his Dutch twin Van De Beek.

All those defenders bought between 2014 and 2018, for Mourinho to end up with Fergie's back 4 playing in the cup final.

Sesko and Hojlund, the target men who were never to be targeted.

Onana. Enough said.

You're pretty much at a point where most of the better transfers were experienced lads cashing in a final pay day.

They could write a book about this transfer "strategy". Actually, one line would do: do the opposite of Man Utd since 2014.

The only real  successful  signing post-Fergie was Zlatan. He was excellent that season until he  was unfortunate to do his knee.