Joe Duffy - Liveline

[sid waddell]

I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.

Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.

Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.

Yet the concept of taking two five second jabs to greatly reduce your chance of getting Covid - and greatly reduce your chances of having serious symptoms and spreading it if you do get it - is lost on you.

Do you think frontline medical staff - you know, doctors and nurses - the people that were clapped on streets - would prefer if the population were vaccinated or unvaccinated heading into this winter?

What do you think?

[trueblue1234]

I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.

Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.

Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.

One drink does not cause a problem. It's when addition takes hold. And by that stage it can be too late. There is no comparison.

You do not need to be addicted to alcohol for it to have a negative impact on your health, which will eventually lead to you requiring medical services. Many peoples social drinking will do this. The government issue guidelines on how many units you shouldn't go beyond etc and they do this with good reason. They are routinely ignored by many people (and by me often enough).

The reason for this is that in many cases it can be hard to identify  that it was solely the drink that caused the health issues. It can be one contributing factor. You tend to find that those who are alcoholics also have a stigma attached and do not get a free ride.
Plus if there was a vaccine that would prevent illness from drink. People would rightly take it.

[sid waddell]

It is not lost on me. I got it. I encourage people to get it.

The point is that people "selfishly" do lots of things that have a crippling effect on our health service. We just choose to accept some of them.

Obesity and alcohol addiction and smoking addiction do not spread in the air and kill others rapidly in epidemics and overwhelm the health system and cripple societies within weeks.

Covid does, and retains the potential to cripple our societies again, it is currently crippling other societies - Romania had 385 Covid deaths the other day in a population of 19 million.

It has to be wilful stupidity at this stage how people can't see this.

This remains an existential crisis for societies.

[sid waddell]

That, I get. The spreading it to other people is the problem.
That said. I am fully vaccinated. I got Covid and I passed it on to others. I'm not sure that leaves me in a position to pontificate to the unvaccinated.

The word "pontificate" is not an argument.

The fact is that Covid is an existential threat to the functioning of society and it's an existential threat to the functioning of our health services.

We are all asked to get two five second jabs to do our bit towards preventing this from happening - as well as greatly helping to protect both ourselves and our loved ones and anybody we come into contact with.

The simple fact is if a person falls into the great majority of people who are eligible to be vaccinated, there is no good reason not to get vaccinated.

All the "arguments" against vaccination have been blown out of the water.

Anybody who refuses vaccination is doing so based on either false information or a completely wrong risk/benefit analysis. They are WRONG.

I cannot comprehend of what motivation would lead somebody to make this wrong decision, other than stupidity, selfishness, or a nihilistic desire to see society collapse.

[JoG2]

Not a good post really.
Why does a case need to die for you to take it seriously?

Benny's seal of approval 

[BennyCake]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

[Snapchap]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.

There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of  stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.

Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?

[6th sam]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

I'm 100% behind vaccinations due to strong evidence but until we see out this winter, vaccinations alone will not protect the nhs. People still need to practice as much Covid safety as possible, but get closer to
Normalisation so that people don't get burnt out. There are fairly easy wins in terms of Covid safety , like distancing , hygiene, stay outdoors, wear masks where appropriate , and avoid complacency . Only those measures in conjunction with maximum vaccination will give us our best chance. We're not over this yet, but we can be.

[sid waddell]

I'm 100% behind vaccinations due to strong evidence but until we see out this winter, vaccinations alone will not protect the nhs. People still need to practice as much Covid safety as possible, but get closer to
Normalisation so that people don't get burnt out. There are fairly easy wins in terms of Covid safety , like distancing , hygiene, stay outdoors, wear masks where appropriate , and avoid complacency . Only those measures in conjunction with maximum vaccination will give us our best chance. We're not over this yet, but we can be.

I thoroughly agree with this - even when all restrictions are lifted, people have to exercise responsibility - but as soon as somebody says anything like this, the anti-vaxxers jump on it as crude, reductionist "proof" that "the vaccines don't work - even those who are in favour of vaccination say so!!!!"

Either these crude reductionists are genuinely stupid in that they have ZERO understanding of nuance - or they are outright nihilist disinformation peddlers - which is, let's not beat around the bush - evil.

It's very hard not to get angry at such arrant nonsense. And in a way that's the anti-vaxxers' game - that they can play the victim - always the victim. "You're bullying us!!!!"

In reality what they want is an extreme form of political correctness where categorically WRONG opinions are given equal standing to facts.

The cancer of false balance.

And if you don't give these opinions equal respect - as you shouldn't - it's "bullying!!!!!"

See the reaction to Callum Robinson. Robinson voluntarily disclosed he was not vaccinated and quite understandably this provoked some negative reaction in society at large. As soon as Robinson disclosed he was not vaccinated he is then 100% fair game for questions about why he is not vaccinated. He could not give one good reason.

Whatever wrong opinion led Callum Robinson and other players to not get vaccinated is not worthy of respect. And he is categorically NOT being bullied. He either believes wrong information or he is just downright selfish in a way that when applied to a wider section of the population, has seriously harmful consequences for society.

And that must be called out.

[trueblue1234]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?

[sid waddell]

Anyone that drives a car is being selfish the act of you driving a car increases the chances of road accidents why are you not calling out car drivers.

Funny you mention that - because very soon we are all going to have to come to terms with the fact that economic activity in the world will have to reduce - or the planet faces climate catastrophe.

And it seems impossible to imagine anything other than humanity failing that test.

[Tres Bien]

Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?

You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.

I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?

Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?

You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.

People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.

The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?

Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.

More straw man arguments. I didn't take the vaccine for the psychological peace of mind. I took it to help protect myself and those I come into contact with.

And I'm not claiming to be a scientific/medical expert - I'm saying that I trust those who are. I'm saying that if the almost unanimous findings of those people who ARE scientific and medical experts, across the whole wide world, is that the vaccine is safe, effective, and necessary; then they are probably right.

You are the one challenging the conclusion of the world's scientific community, not me. So front up with the research you have carried out that refutes their conclusions, or else just admit that you just think you know better than them.

You took a personal choice to take the vaccine due to perceived benefits. That's fine, that's your decision and I respect that.

How about you do other people the same courtesy and afford that they have genuine reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine at this time? My arguments are not straw man arguments, yours certainly are as you are the one with blinkered, intolerant and contradictory viewpoints that circle round to why everyone should come to the same decision as yours.

[JoG2]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding

[sid waddell]

This morning John Bruton's son has been revealed by media to be a member of an extreme Catholic, far right, Holocaust denying group.

The exact same logic that says Callum Robinson is being "bullied" for being questioned over his stupid/selfish/wrong/whatever you're having yourself decision not to get vaccinated, would surely say that Bruton's son is being "bullied" too for his appalling decisions?

Yes?

Otherwise the "logic" falls flat on its face.

[BennyCake]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.

There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of  stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.

Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?

So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.

Another two people (regardless of vaccination status)  meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.

Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?

You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!

So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.