Joe Duffy - Liveline

[Snapchap]

Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.

So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?

Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.

You're contradicting yourself now and you're actually telling lies.

I can google furiously, show you incidents where people died from a reaction to the vaccine, show you incidents where the vaccine has been linked to hospitalisations and illnesses, show you incidents of medical authorities banning certain vaccines in age groups due to cases of illnesses and deaths associated with the vaccine, show you incidents of medical authorities limiting use of certain vaccines due to illness and deaths associated with them. They exist but it's a tit for tat worthless display. You have your subjective bias that thinks your opinion should be enforced dogmatically and anyone who disagrees be labelled negatively. It's easy find that and you want to selectively say the vaccines are safe and then ignore real life incidents that have shown they have caused deaths, have caused severe illnesses - the BBC lady being one specific example, an example that came to light 5 months after she died when the coroner ruled the vaccine caused her death.

For fear of being labelled an anti-vax nut without any foundation, I'll avoid that. If I was over 50, had health ailments or didn't look after myself I'd have no problem getting the vaccine. I'm not though, I'm under 40, I look after myself, I don't do drugs, I've never smoked, I'm physically active, I eat well and have a low body fat %. So the need for the vaccine for me is different to someone else and we have to look at through a lens of rationality and perspective. I look at this debate with respect for people's own situations, not just ramming my views down another person's throat.

Are vaccines effective? You say they are? Great. If they're effective then and we have >90% of the groupings who are at risk of severe illness and death from Covid then why are you so vociferous about people who have such an absolutely minimal chance of getting severely ill or dying from Covid vaccinated? It's a contradictory viewpoint. You tell us the vaccines are effective and then basically say they aren't worth a shite. Which is it?

Effective or ineffective? You seem to saying they are effective but the argument you put forwards says they aren't worth a damn. Do you want us vaccinating 6 and 7 year olds with this next? Where does it stop?

I'm at low risk of dying from covid, but if I caught covid, but is not all about me. I also got vaccinated because it makes me dramatically less likely to spread it to someone who has not been vaccinated. Someone who may be vulnerable. Its not that complicated.

And of course you can use Google to find instances of people taking did effects from the vaccine! I mean is that seriously your argument? Lots of people have taken control of a car while under the influence and didn't have an accident. That didn't mean its a safe thing to do. The number of cases of severe side effects from the vaccine is negligible against the number of people who feel no side effects. People take side effects from all vaccines, as you could also discover from Google. Does that mean no vaccine is safe to take? Cop yourself on ffs

[trueblue1234]

I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.

Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.

[Milltown Row2]

Like ignoring the facts that vaccinated people of all ages have a better chance of survival if contracting the virus, and less chance of pass it in if they do have it!

If they are fit and want to take a chance and selfish enough to pass it on to others then that's just weird.

[sid waddell]

We'll fail to prepare and we'll go and we'll do our worst
We'll Put 'Em Under Pressure

Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah

Covid denial is about, being offensive, being aggressive, winning a debate in your own head, getting on with fillin' the hospitals
We'll Put 'Em Under Pressure

No way, No way, No way, No way, No way, No way

We're all part of Angelo's Army, we're all pretend from Italy, and we'll really shake them up, when the Covid deaths go up, 'cause Ireland's gonna refuse the vaccine

Put 'Em Under Pressure

Well it's not gonna be easy for us but it's not gonna be easy for the Gardai either
(pushin, pushin' people, pushin' people, pushin' people, pushin' people)
Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah

We inflict our stupidity onto people
Put 'Em Under Pressure

Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah, Ooh Aah

We've got a culture war to win, culture war to win, culture war to win

Put 'Em Under Pressure

No way, No way, No way, No way, No way, you're gay

We're all part of Angelo's Army, we're all pretend from Italy, and we'll really shake them up, when we win the World Cup, for stupid deaths from Covid-19

[Tres Bien]

Except the bit you don't seem to get is that the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine is a not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of proven scientific fact.

So to say the views of people who don't want to take it deserve respect is just complete nonsense. Why does such a view deserve respect when there is simply no good reason for not taking the vaccine and so many reasons to take it?

Akin to saying we should respect people who decide they are OK to drink and drive because they are of the opinion that alcohol doesn't impair driving. Such an opinion doesn't deserve respect. Not taking the vaccine and willfully putting others at risk because you perhaps believe you know better than the world's scientific and biomedical community about its safety, is an opinion that doesn't deserve respect.

You're contradicting yourself now and you're actually telling lies.

I can google furiously, show you incidents where people died from a reaction to the vaccine, show you incidents where the vaccine has been linked to hospitalisations and illnesses, show you incidents of medical authorities banning certain vaccines in age groups due to cases of illnesses and deaths associated with the vaccine, show you incidents of medical authorities limiting use of certain vaccines due to illness and deaths associated with them. They exist but it's a tit for tat worthless display. You have your subjective bias that thinks your opinion should be enforced dogmatically and anyone who disagrees be labelled negatively. It's easy find that and you want to selectively say the vaccines are safe and then ignore real life incidents that have shown they have caused deaths, have caused severe illnesses - the BBC lady being one specific example, an example that came to light 5 months after she died when the coroner ruled the vaccine caused her death.

For fear of being labelled an anti-vax nut without any foundation, I'll avoid that. If I was over 50, had health ailments or didn't look after myself I'd have no problem getting the vaccine. I'm not though, I'm under 40, I look after myself, I don't do drugs, I've never smoked, I'm physically active, I eat well and have a low body fat %. So the need for the vaccine for me is different to someone else and we have to look at through a lens of rationality and perspective. I look at this debate with respect for people's own situations, not just ramming my views down another person's throat.

Are vaccines effective? You say they are? Great. If they're effective then and we have >90% of the groupings who are at risk of severe illness and death from Covid then why are you so vociferous about people who have such an absolutely minimal chance of getting severely ill or dying from Covid vaccinated? It's a contradictory viewpoint. You tell us the vaccines are effective and then basically say they aren't worth a shite. Which is it?

Effective or ineffective? You seem to saying they are effective but the argument you put forwards says they aren't worth a damn. Do you want us vaccinating 6 and 7 year olds with this next? Where does it stop?

I'm at low risk of dying from covid, but if I caught covid, but is not all about me. I also got vaccinated because it makes me dramatically less likely to spread it to someone who has not been vaccinated. Someone who may be vulnerable. Its not that complicated.

And of course you can use Google to find instances of people taking did effects from the vaccine! I mean is that seriously your argument? Lots of people have taken control of a car while under the influence and didn't have an accident. That didn't mean its a safe thing to do. The number of cases of severe side effects from the vaccine is negligible against the number of people who feel no side effects. People take side effects from all vaccines, as you could also discover from Google. Does that mean no vaccine is safe to take? Cop yourself on ffs

Exactly, it's not all about you.

So respect Callum Robinson's decision. If you're worried about Covid, lock yourself up in a room - don't go down the Joe Duffy route of shaming, denigrating and ridiculing a guy because he made an informed personal decision about his own health. Let us not forget Duffy was screaming for Robinson not be allowed play a game of football because he had a different opinion on vaccination and made a different choice.

You don't seem to except any risk whatsoever, tell me what is acceptable risk? It's something that was never clarified because I'm very confused when I look back and society was willing to accept putting the elderly and vulnerable at risk every winter flu season without any real concern for the huge death tolls that would happen every winter.

Where does it end now? Where is the line with vaccinations? How far in age groupings do you want to go? Do we need to starting vaccinating 5 years olds? 8 year olds?

Maybe grow a bit more of acceptance to the views of others.

[JoG2]

As they say, you can't argue with stupid. Lunacy

[Tres Bien]

As they say, I just lack the ability to frame a coherent argument

Fixed that for you.

[Snapchap]

Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?

You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.

I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?

[Tres Bien]

Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?

You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.

I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?

Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?

You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.

People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.

The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?

Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.

[Snapchap]

Like I ready said, not all views deserve respect. You seriously put forward the opinion that the vaccine isn't safe because Google told you about instances of people taking side effects. I mean, take a listen to yourself. Air travel is safe, yet a quick Google will tell you that some people have been in air crashes. I assume you refuse to go on an airplane then?

You say that I should lock myself in a room if I'm worried about covid, but the thing is, I don't need to because I am vaccinated, which means I'm much more protected than I'd be if I were not vaccinated, and I am much less likely to pass covid to others in the off chance that I did catch it.

I'd love you to give me one good reason not to get vaccinated. And given that almost the entire global scientific and biomedical community agree that we should take it, then I think you are up against it. Do you actually believe you know better than the combined conclusion of the world's scientists?

Just your views so? Glad we have sorted that out - you're the medical and scientific expert here are you?

You're making analogies there that further undermine your own position. You either believe vaccines work or they don't. You want everyone vaccinated, with no respect for their own wishes, with regard to what benefit they get out of getting a vaccine, because it gives you peace of mind? That's selfish.

People take the vaccines to protect themselves, that's the whole point of them - if they don't protect you then why take them? If you don't believe they protect you then why do you want others to take them? It's utterly illogical the fervour some people are placing on others doing the same as them, against that person's own individual will.

The reasons to or not too get vaccinated isn't a catch all question? It's a unique question for every individual and their own circumstances, like most things in life which is why I'd dread to live in the sort of totalitarian society you seem to be supporting. Anyone who makes a choice on whether to get or not to get an injection now is subject to your judgement or vilification if their choice differs to yours? Do you think that's a healthy outlook for society? Rather than trying to understand people and their decisions - let's just shame them and judge them, right?

Robinson was very articulate and reasonable when he spoke to the media, sadly some people have instigated a witch hunt against him, because God forbid, his decision on whether or not he got an injection into his own body, a choice about his own personal health, differed from what they decided to do with their body.

More straw man arguments. I didn't take the vaccine for the psychological peace of mind. I took it to help protect myself and those I come into contact with.

And I'm not claiming to be a scientific/medical expert - I'm saying that I trust those who are. I'm saying that if the almost unanimous findings of those people who ARE scientific and medical experts, across the whole wide world, is that the vaccine is safe, effective, and necessary; then they are probably right.

You are the one challenging the conclusion of the world's scientific community, not me. So front up with the research you have carried out that refutes their conclusions, or else just admit that you just think you know better than them.

[Milltown Row2]

He's a mate that works in the big pharmaceutical companies

[BennyCake]

Sorry but not taking the vaccine is 100% a selfish decision. Its a matter of fact that people have faced critical delays in getting surgery, cancer treatments etc due to hospitals being over-stretched by covid. The best way to ensure that doesn't continue is by a successful vaccination programme. Given that we know the vaccine is safe, then there is simply no good reason not to get it.

The vaccine either works or it doesn't.

You seem to be one of those that say it's effectively useless is it?

Young, fit and healthy people don't really need this vaccine, the data backs that up. It's as selfish for people demanding young, fit and healthy people get the vaccine against their will as people who as it is for young people to choose not to get the vaccine. There has to be respect for people's choices and some people don't seem to be showing any towards that.

There should be tolerance and respect in society and gaslighting and insulting people who should have the ability to make decisions regarding their health is just nasty.

If you had a state broadcaster fit for purpose then Duffy would have censored and suspended over his comments on Robinson.

I'm not demanding people take it, so relax the straw man arguments. I AM saying that those who choose not to take it are being wreckless, arrogant and selfish.

And society DOES need young to take it. Taking it reduces transmission rates by up to two thirds, regardless of age. That is scientifically tested and proven. The lower the transmission rates the lower the case numbers, the lesser the pressure on the health service, the less people will needlessly have to face delays for critical care/cancer treatments/surgery etc.

It has also been scientifically tested and proven that the vaccine is safe, so again, there is no good reason for young people to choose not to take it.

To not take it is indefensible stupidity, arrogance and selfishness.

They are not being reckless, arrogant & selfish.

The people, like you, leading campaigns of shame and projecting tags onto a person who exercises their own choice on this are the ones who are reckless, arrogant and selfish. Who are you to tell and judge people? Why do you get to decide for people and cast aspersions on their character because they have a different viewpoint?

People are entitled to make a choice on this matter, they are entitled to have that choice respected. Respect is a two way street and when you go around throwing tags out about people, simply because they take a different view on this matter to others, then there is no respect. We have intolerance and the backlash against Robinson was disgusting.

If I came on here and linked your outlook and the outlook of people on you, who want to shame and degrade people on the vaccine issue - to the death or illnesses of people who took the vaccine - an example being that lady who worked with the BBC and had a blood clot and died, that it was your arrogance and selfishness that was impacting this - what would you say?

There are three types of people in this debate

1) Anti-vaxx nutters who go on about 5g and all this and dissuade everyone from taking the vaccine
2) Sensible and rational middle grounders who can see the vaccine is a personal choice and people should make informed decisions on the basis of their health, age and exposure to others and who don't try and misrepresent or label anyone whose views differ with theirs.
3) Vaccine fascists who want everyone to get vaccinated regardless and don't respect anyone with an opposing view or who exercises their personal decision not to get one

Sadly you are falling into option 3, that's totalitarianism.

How about showing a bit of respect to Robinson, accept he has his reasons and you disagree with him. Respect he has weighed up the options and feels he has came to the best ones for himself and avoid gaslighting him by saying he's selfish, arrogant and reckless. Do you think going around calling people with a different viewpoint to you on this as selfish, arrogant or reckless is a good way to win people around? I don't and vaccine fascists do every bit as much to polarise this debate as the anti-vaxx nuts.

I'm in category 2 myself, I haven't got the vaccine - not because I'm anti vax or don't think they work but I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat. It's as much an anomaly as me hopping into my car and wrapping it around a tree on a 20 mile journey. I respect anyone who wants to go and get a vaccine if that's what they wish to do. I'm not going to call them selfish or arrogant or reckless for doing so. If I display symptoms I'll follow the advice on isolation and restricting my movements and will get myself tested. I'd imagine most sensible people will do this. It's a bit irking to be taking moral lectures from people with zero tolerance and zero respect for opposing viewpoints.

Yep,  good post

[RedHand88]

Not a good post really.
Why does a case need to die for you to take it seriously?

[trueblue1234]

I'm not anti-vax. I've had 2 jabs and would encourage people to have it but he has some sort of point though. The NHS has been under pressure for a long time. A lot of that has been due to people's lifestyles choices. Their own decisions. They've never been castigated in the same way as the unvaccinated.

Do you think most addicts of drink, drugs, wouldn't take a jab if they thought it would cure them? Do you think most overweight people wouldn't take a jab if they could. That's the difference.

Yet, these people could decide not to start smoking, start drinking, start abusing drugs, start eating shite. But, fully aware that these things put a strain on the health service, they "selfishly" do it anyway and they get a free ride for it in comparison to the unvaccinated.

One drink does not cause a problem. It's when addition takes hold. And by that stage it can be too late. There is no comparison.

[Snapchap]

Yep, fail to see how it's a good post. Take this bit of nonsense, for instance:

"I've seen the data and I can see that 13 deaths in 150k cases in the u40 age group shows its not really too much of a threat."

1. Of course your age means you are at a reduced risk of dying if you catch covid, however, because you are unvaccinated, you are still then at a higher risk of catching it which means that:
2. If you do catch it, you are up to two thirds more likely to transmit it than someone who was vaccinated, making you a significantly greater threat to the health of those around you than if you had been vaccinated.

So like I say, your decision for not getting jabbed is seemingly down to the selfish idea that catching covid doesn't pose a big threat to you and thats all that matters so who cares about the vulnerable person you are at an increased risk of transmitting it to.

My primary reason for getting jabbed was not because I weighed up how at risk I felt from dying of covid. I got it because I understood that it dramatically reduces the potential of me infecting vulnerable people around me if I did catch it..