Joe Duffy - Liveline

[BennyCake]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Benny, the common denominator of the vast majority of those taking up hospital beds is that they haven't been vaccinated. Social distancing and mask wearing isn't the main weapon to defeat the pandemic. Those were mitigations that were essential in the absence of a vaccine. The vaccine is the best weapon against the pandemic. That's the view of the experts across the world. You don't know better then them.

There is no good reason for not taking the vaccine outside of  stupidity or arrogance. I genuinely am at a loss as to what the argument is for refusing it. If you are worried about a side effects, then surely you refuse every vaccine there is for anything? If you are only worried about the covid jabs, then why? We know it's as safe as any other jab.

Seriously like...when the world's scientists, medics, biomedical experts, virologists almost unanimously agree that this vaccine is safe, effective and necessary to beat the pandemic, how f**king arrogant do you have to be to genuinely think you know better?

So, two vaccinated people meet up. No masks, no social distancing, no windows opened. They shake hands, hug and don't keep a safe distance.

Another two people (regardless of vaccination status)  meet up, they keep a safe distance, wear masks, hand sanitizer, open windows etc.

Who is more likely to spread and get the virus?

You've just confirmed my point. Oh we only had to socially distance ourselves, wear masks etc until a vaccine came along. But now it's here, we don't have to do any of that now. The vaccine will save us!

So the vaccine isn't the magic bullet. Yes it will help, but The way to repress this virus is distancing and good hygiene which many many people have clearly given up on.

Who is more likely to behave responsibly? Somebody who has already taken the responsible decision to get vaccinated, or somebody who has already taken the irresponsible decision to not get vaccinated?

Who is more likely to take the responsible decision to wear a seat belt? Somebody who has taken the responsible decision to remain sober while driving or somebody who has taken the irresponsible decision to drive while drunk?

Responsible decisions tend to go together. So do irresponsible ones.

You say the vaccine is "a help"? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the case that you aren't vaccinated?

If so, you recognise that society returning to normal depends on a very high vaccine take up among the population at large - but yet you yourself refuse to help?

Let's be clear what people who are not vaccinated are saying - they are saying they would have no problem at all if NOBODY was vaccinated and Delta continued to run absolutely rampant around an unvaccinated population, causing mass death on a much greater scale than we have already seen.

Because they themselves have taken the decision to not get vaccinated.

I've clearly seen it. As more and more  people got vaccinated, all covid advice has disappeared. Mask wearing, distancing, hygiene, congregating etc. Alot of vccinated people think they are no longer st risk, and abandon all advice. The 'I'm alright jack' line of thinking.  But yet it's unvaccinated people that get all the abuse.

I don't see the  point in being vaccinated if you're going to abandon all guidelines about stopping transmission (because the vaccine doesn't stop transmission). A vaccinated person who is ignoring all covid guidance is more dangerous than an unvaccinated person who is following all the guidelines.

[Rudi]

the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding

This is just incredible.

It's easy comment for JOG2 to back up, there's currently 35 people in ICU with Covid. He has to have the data to support this, he should provide it here and along with his source or he should admit he's dealing in quite hysterical misinformation to support his viewpoint? It's simply and misinformation on Covid needs to be called out across the board. Vaccine fascists like JOG2 are polarising this debate every bit as much as the anti-vax nutters.

There's also the rather snide and crude terming of people who believe people's choices should be respected on whether or not to get the vaccine as anti-vax. Not deciding to get the Covid vaccine does not meant you are anti-vax, there's plenty of people who are quite happy to get vaccines but for whatever reasons have reservations or do not see the upside to getting this particular vaccine - that should be met with respect but the vaccine fascists prefer to gaslight people with an opposing viewpoint by putting incorrect and derogatory labels on them. This is misrepresentation and again I have to ask, what is the motive behind people who want to misrepresent other views and beliefs? Rather than the debate the issue with that person they want to make out they are arguing something they quite clearly are not. A number of posters like Milltown Row have engaged in this tactic already in this thread. You're another one.

It's embarrassing for you.

I would agree with that. Be more like 6th Sam JoG. Snide comments & mis information do nothing to add to this thread.

The vaccine no doubt is much better than the alternative for society, however its efficacy is disappointing, surely a more effective vaccine or treatment can be developed. Double Jabs & booster Jabs that don't offer anything  close to full protection from Covid is not where we want to be. Surely science can do better?

[sid waddell]

I don't see the  point in being vaccinated

You should have just left it there. It's obviously what you are determined to think.

[BennyCake]

I don't see the  point in being vaccinated

You should have just left it there. It's obviously what you are determined to think.

That's right. You draw your own narrative from what I said

[Tres Bien]

the ICUs are jammed packed with anti-vaxers, but it's the vaccinated peoples fault. Truly astounding

This is just incredible.

It's easy comment for JOG2 to back up, there's currently 35 people in ICU with Covid. He has to have the data to support this, he should provide it here and along with his source or he should admit he's dealing in quite hysterical misinformation to support his viewpoint? It's simply and misinformation on Covid needs to be called out across the board. Vaccine fascists like JOG2 are polarising this debate every bit as much as the anti-vax nutters.

There's also the rather snide and crude terming of people who believe people's choices should be respected on whether or not to get the vaccine as anti-vax. Not deciding to get the Covid vaccine does not meant you are anti-vax, there's plenty of people who are quite happy to get vaccines but for whatever reasons have reservations or do not see the upside to getting this particular vaccine - that should be met with respect but the vaccine fascists prefer to gaslight people with an opposing viewpoint by putting incorrect and derogatory labels on them. This is misrepresentation and again I have to ask, what is the motive behind people who want to misrepresent other views and beliefs? Rather than the debate the issue with that person they want to make out they are arguing something they quite clearly are not. A number of posters like Milltown Row have engaged in this tactic already in this thread. You're another one.

It's embarrassing for you.

I would agree with that. Be more like 6th Sam JoG. Snide comments & mis information do nothing to add to this thread.

The vaccine no doubt is much better than the alternative for society, however its efficacy is disappointing, surely a more effective vaccine or treatment can be developed. Double Jabs & booster Jabs that don't offer anything  close to full protection from Covid is not where we want to be. Surely science can do better?

100%

My stance on Covid vaccine would be the same as my stance on the flu vaccine. Covid is clearly a major threat to people who are ill, elderly or in poor health. There's an incentive there for them to get the vaccine and give themselves the best possible protecting against contracting Covid and fighting it off. We know on the data and I'm at pains repeating myself here,  13 deaths in 150k~ cases in the u40 age bracket - unfortunately we have not been provided any further information on the breakdown of these 13 deaths, how many had underlying health conditions, how many were obese or overweight, were smokers. This is information in the public interest that should be shared.

Forcing, shaming and coercing sections of society into doing something against their will that the data says is of negligible benefit to them personally is wrong and those who engage in misrepresenting opposing, I think it tells you all you need to know about the lack of conviction they have in their own stance.

They want people to get a jab they seemingly have little faith actually works. It's anti-logic. Seemingly these people aren't worried for me (the unprotected), they're worried for themselves (the protected) and they want us to believe the vaccines are great yet they don't seem to have faith in them doing their job? Bizarre.

[Snapchap]

They do work. That is a matter if verifiable fact.

Your stance on the jab seems to be all about the risk of catching it. The jab is not just a way to prevent catching it, it's a way to prevent transmitting it.

When the world's scientists say it is effective, where is your evidence for disagreeing?

[Tres Bien]

They do work. That is a matter if verifiable fact.

Your stance on the jab seems to be all about the risk of catching it. The jab is not just a way to prevent catching it, it's a way to prevent transmitting it.

When the world's scientists say it is effective, where is your evidence for disagreeing?

Great so, why are you concerned if they work? Surely it's only those unvaccinated who in danger so and if they choose to be in danger then that's their problem.

My stance on the vaccine is that the data shows my chance of getting seriously ill or dying from Covid is absolutely minimal.

I acknowledge my chance of having an adverse reaction that could cause serious illness or death from the vaccine are more remote than the minimal chance of Covid.

I also factor in that I may never actually get Covid so may never actually get exposed to something that gives me that minimal chance in the first place whereas I would voluntarily be giving myself the thing that exposes me to a more remote chance of adverse side effect.

Finally I don't know anything about my own immunity, it's quite possible I've had Covid unknowingly already and have immunity. I can't understand why mass antibody testing hasn't been carried out.

I've considered all the above and arrived at a logical position for me. I am happy for people to do their own analysis of the situation and make their own personal decisions.

Unfortunately all the above is common sense, it's pragmatic, rational, logical and sensible and the biggest problem it seems for some people who have got the vaccine, it not only has it made them immune from Covid but a side effect is it has made them immune from common sense too.

[Snapchap]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

[From the Bunker]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.

[Tres Bien]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

You're the one demanding other people conform to your viewpoint with little regard for them making their own independent choices and no respect shown to them if they differ from you. That's the selfish part you ignore. It doesn't revolve around your viewpoint, people should have the freedom to make informed decisions without coercion or insults.

[thebigfella]

Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.

What part of the vaccine went through all the normal drug approvals do people not understand?

[armaghniac]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.

That might be more credible if the same young people were not taking experimental pharmaceuticals in other contexts.

[BennyCake]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

The part youand others ignore is, if he is unvaccinated but taking all precautions necessary, then he's less of a risk of transmitting the virus than a vaccinated person who has given up adhering to any of the guidance.

[trueblue1234]

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?

This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.

If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?

The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.

So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.



That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.

Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?

Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?

The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-coronavirus-breakdown-shows-21779939.amp

And for adults under 50, whilst the numbers admitted to hospital are lower, an unvaccinated individual is almost 18 times as likely to need hospitalisation.

I'll take their word over yours.

[Snapchap]

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

Older people expecting non risk youth to take an experimental vaccine is selfish also? It's just depends where you are looking from.

It's not an experimental vaccine. It has proven itself as safe as any other vaccine. That's precisely the sort of utter bullsh1t conspiracy theory misinformation that society is up against and that gullible people are at risk of falling for.