Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[Wildweasel74]

City schools havent got a number excuse, they bigger numbers than any Primary school in the county. I know one primary school in Derry city with 28 classroooms of children .

[Brendan]

The townies have plenty of other excuses, not knowing the rules of GAA being a key one

[oakleaflad]

Christ don't make it a South Derry/ North Derry thing.

I suppose there were two North Derry teams in Junior final so that maybe helps.

All stirring the pot aside, 1 North Derry team getting past the quarter final stage of the Senior and intermediate championship has to be a worry for the County Board.
We're not getting enough out of these clubs at all.

A lot going on here. You've contradicted yourself and appear to have miscounted

As has been talked about previously, this is more to do with playing numbers than the part of the county they sit in. Anyone who has coached at club underage level in the county over the last number of years has to have noticed this.

The first part was a joke that went over your head.

Sorry the numbers thing can't always be an excuse, there's big numbers and big catchment areas up there and then add in the city.

Newbridge are double county champions and have to have the smallest catchment area in Derry.

The only one I was counting was Craigbane, add Coleraine in if you like. To be honest I'm not sure if they are North or South.

But 2 clubs doesn't make the argument much stronger.

Miscounting or trying to make out I'm wrong wouldn't be beneficial to addressing the point I made.

Awh right. It was very funny.

To suggest that numbers aren't at the heart of the issue is just ignorant.

[oakleaflad]

City schools havent got a number excuse, they bigger number than any Primary school in the county. I know one primary school in Derry with 28 classroooms of children .

Ahh the city is almost a separate case but i'd argue that strides have been made there, particularly in the last 10 years or so. It won't happen overnight for them.
Steelstown have established themselves as a senior side and have great numbers at underage level.
Doire Trasna now have their own club grounds and improving underage teams.
Doire Colmcille also have a new pitch and have went from being probably the worst team in the county to a competitive junior side.
Sean Dolans possibly slightly stagnant but have new facilities and probably a more set/limited catchment area compared to other city clubs.
Then you have Culmore as a newly formed club.

My response was more regarding the likes of Ballerin, Craigbane, Drumsurn, Foreglen, Magilligan etc. These clubs have limited numbers. If anyone has ever taken a side at Go Games level these clubs will usually field only 1 team because that's all they have. In the same way that a Ballymaguigan or a Lissan do. I have great respect for people keeping these clubs going.

[greenlight]

City schools havent got a number excuse, they bigger number than any Primary school in the county. I know one primary school in Derry with 28 classroooms of children .

Ahh the city is almost a separate case but i'd argue that strides have been made there, particularly in the last 10 years or so. It won't happen overnight for them.
Steelstown have established themselves as a senior side and have great numbers at underage level.
Doire Trasna now have their own club grounds and improving underage teams.
Doire Colmcille also have a new pitch and have went from being probably the worst team in the county to a competitive junior side.
Sean Dolans possibly slightly stagnant but have new facilities and probably a more set/limited catchment area compared to other city clubs.
Then you have Culmore as a newly formed club.

My response was more regarding the likes of Ballerin, Craigbane, Drumsurn, Foreglen, Magilligan etc. These clubs have limited numbers. If anyone has ever taken a side at Go Games level these clubs will usually field only 1 team because that's all they have. In the same way that a Ballymaguigan or a Lissan do. I have great respect for people keeping these clubs going.

Some of these clubs will undoubtedly have to consolidate to continue. Would Ballymaguigan have any appetite to rejoin with Newbridge for example ?

[Ryan O]

Numbers argument is a lazy one to deflect the responsibility away from the clubs!!

Have Drumsurn less of a pick than Swatragh?
Have Claudy less than Lavey?
Foreglen have a similar pick to Newbridge.

Then you look at this season in particular, Greenlough and Desertmartin don't have massive picks but regularly pushing for promotion and have lads around Derry development squads.


Park isn't just one street surely Banagher should be pushing harder to senior football instead of yo yoing between it and intermediate.

I'm in enough Derry Go Games groups and attend enough Tournaments or festival of football as they're now known to know what clubs are pushing the hardest.

[outsiderlookingin]

Used to love the Derry championship, but lets be honest the standard has dropped, everything about it is terrible, needs to be knockout and needs to be played at club grounds, the county board have sucked the sole out of it and that's a fact, Owenbeg is not a place for these games, and if it doesn't change soon it will be to late

[oakleaflad]

Numbers argument is a lazy one to deflect the responsibility away from the clubs!!

Have Drumsurn less of a pick than Swatragh?
Have Claudy less than Lavey?
Foreglen have a similar pick to Newbridge.

Then you look at this season in particular, Greenlough and Desertmartin don't have massive picks but regularly pushing for promotion and have lads around Derry development squads.


Park isn't just one street surely Banagher should be pushing harder to senior football instead of yo yoing between it and intermediate.

I'm in enough Derry Go Games groups and attend enough Tournaments or festival of football as they're now known to know what clubs are pushing the hardest.

Sorry, you've shown yourself up by asking if Drumsurn have less of a pick than Swatragh for me. It wouldn't be remotely close and anyone with even half an involvement with coaching in the county would know this.

Particularly with the way the game has gone over the last 20 years or so, in general a larger player base equals better athletes. Of course there will be outliers here and there, and there are a few.

You've said Newbridge have done well and Banagher should do better. I could counter by saying The Loup are doing well to be a perennial senior team lately and Ballinascreen should be doing better with the numbers they have. This has nothing to do with where in the county they are, sorry.
 

[Ryan O]

Numbers argument is a lazy one to deflect the responsibility away from the clubs!!

Have Drumsurn less of a pick than Swatragh?
Have Claudy less than Lavey?
Foreglen have a similar pick to Newbridge.

Then you look at this season in particular, Greenlough and Desertmartin don't have massive picks but regularly pushing for promotion and have lads around Derry development squads.


Park isn't just one street surely Banagher should be pushing harder to senior football instead of yo yoing between it and intermediate.

I'm in enough Derry Go Games groups and attend enough Tournaments or festival of football as they're now known to know what clubs are pushing the hardest.

Sorry, you've shown yourself up by asking if Drumsurn have less of a pick than Swatragh for me. It wouldn't be remotely close and anyone with even half an involvement with coaching in the county would know this.

Particularly with the way the game has gone over the last 20 years or so, in general a larger player base equals better athletes. Of course there will be outliers here and there, and there are a few.

You've said Newbridge have done well and Banagher should do better. I could counter by saying The Loup are doing well to be a perennial senior team lately and Ballinascreen should be doing better with the numbers they have. This has nothing to do with where in the county they are, sorry.
 

Screen have been discussed here before, yes they are underachieving with the numbers they have. So I've no doubt they know there is an issue there. Your argument would be the equivalent of them saying its not fair we've too many players.

Maybe instead if trying to highlight why the point I'm making is flawed would it be more beneficial to discuss why these clubs are behind? And I'll state again, saying its numbers is lazy and shifts responsibility.

Claudy, Faughanvale, Banagher, Foreglen, Limavady have more than enough numbers to realistically try and push themselves to be a consistent senior level club. Your talking about bringing through 4 players per age group.

[oakleaflad]

Sorry, but if you can't see there is a correlation then I don't see a starting point.
Just saying North Derry isn't doing enough is lazy when you have shown you haven't a clue about the size of clubs you are comparing. 
Of course coaching etc. comes into to play as well. Nobody will dispute that. 

[Estimator]

The squad lists that are released for the club championship games are always an interesting read when it comes to player population.

Drum had 40 players on their squad list for semi final v Doire Trasna (who named 28). And in Drum's fixture v Doire Colmcille, a total of 75 players were named between the two squads.

Foreglen, Ballymaguigan, Desertmartin, Limavady, regularly named bigger match day squads than some of the senior sides.

Obviously that's only one specific numeric statistic and doesn't say anything about the quality of the players in those squads. But it shows the (playing) numbers they are working with - not the overall size of a parish population.

[oakleaflad]

Here's some numbers for you all. Submitted by the coaches from the clubs themselves. A few clubs missing or hadn't responded at the time. I can't believe I'm having to debate this.

Number of Year 8's per club last year.

Lavey 11
Dungiven 17/18
Newbridge 14
Swatragh 14
Ballinascreen 24
Banagher 10
Slaughtneil 13
Ballinderry 12
Drumsurn 4
Glack 4
Limavady 10
Culmore 10
Bellaghy 14
Ballerin 5
Glen 20
Loup 15
Greenlough 12
Slaughtmanus 12
Foreglen 6
Magherafelt 20
Doire Colmcille 10
Kilrea 13

[Brendan]

Limavady the really shocking one there, 2 Catholic primary schools and an integrated in the town yet only have got 10 players heading into secondary school

[shawshank]

Alot of horny folk in Newbridge for a small catchment area

[Cluborcountywhynotboth]

The North South debate is always an interesting one, and there are obvious things that the southern clubs have done better for a very long time and the reasons for that are many fold. I won't get into that historical debate, but what I have said previously on here and will say again is that the schools and the development squads' have a lot of impact on the growth of a modern player. The main schools in the South are ran akin to an American football college system with massive money being pumped into some of them by both the schools themselves and the county board. Which is why I thought it was a massive oversight when the county board released their strategy a few years again and they announced they would be funding the same amount of games officers in one school in South Derry as they were for the whole of north Derry. To me the focus should have been on growing the 'weaker' schools rather then trying to prop up the already strong ones. For me the amalgamated team they have for the city should be replicated in a couple other places in North Derry and supported by the county board with an aim to having all these amalgamated school teams at some stage playing McRory and maybe then the best players from Dungiven etc... wouldn't end up in Maghera for school. Another issue is the development squads, the whole concept, the make up of them and how they are selected, but I'll save that for another day. And don't get me started on the city where one club have been pushed to the hilt by the county board for years as their own pet project while and the rest left to fend for themselves.