[Merged] Religion topic Bishop Eamon reaffirms Catholic teaching & Cinemas refusing to show ad featu

[muppet]

OmaghJoe, with all due respect.....

I was going to post a disection of each line, but I'll only get flamed for arguing to the nth degree.

I'll put it simply. I agree with the analysis of the following:

"Give us this day, our daily bread..."
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
"Lead us not into temptation..."
"But deliver us from evil..."

This is all language we can understand and I agree with the explanations. We are asking for something and we use the words 'give', 'forgive', 'lead' and 'deliver' to articulate these requests, or petitions as the link calls them.

However, the following has equally clear language, using the verb to be, and are statements, not requests or petitions:

"Our Father, who art in heaven..."
"Hallowed be thy name..."
"Thy kingdom come..."
"Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..." -

[T Fearon]

Are you saying ads have to be evidentially true? Would the dearest after shave make Quasimodo attractive to women,or Armani suits?

[Rossfan]

OmaghJoe, with all due respect.....

I was going to post a disection of each line, but I'll only get flamed for arguing to the nth degree.

I'll put it simply. I agree with the analysis of the following:

"Give us this day, our daily bread..."
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
"Lead us not into temptation..."
"But deliver us from evil..."

This is all language we can understand and I agree with the explanations. We are asking for something and we use the words 'give', 'forgive', 'lead' and 'deliver' to articulate these requests, or petitions as the link calls them.

However, the following has equally clear language, using the verb to be, and are statements, not requests or petitions:

"Our Father, who art in heaven..."
"Hallowed be thy name..."
"Thy kingdom come..."
"Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..." -

The last three are wishes.
Check the leagan Gaeilge

[theskull1]

Omaghjoe,you are wasting your time appealing for impartiality from theophobes like Muppet.

The fact is an ad about any other subject/product under the sun (apart from pornography and extreme violence) would be broadcast without any fuss in the cinema,which makes this ban an obvious case of shameful discrimination

At least theophobes like Richard Dawkins is on your side Tony

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/22/richard-dawkins-says-uk-cinemas-should-screen-the-lords-prayer

[muppet]

OmaghJoe, with all due respect.....

I was going to post a disection of each line, but I'll only get flamed for arguing to the nth degree.

I'll put it simply. I agree with the analysis of the following:

"Give us this day, our daily bread..."
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
"Lead us not into temptation..."
"But deliver us from evil..."

This is all language we can understand and I agree with the explanations. We are asking for something and we use the words 'give', 'forgive', 'lead' and 'deliver' to articulate these requests, or petitions as the link calls them.

However, the following has equally clear language, using the verb to be, and are statements, not requests or petitions:

"Our Father, who art in heaven..."
"Hallowed be thy name..."
"Thy kingdom come..."
"Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..." -

The last three are wishes.
Check the leagan Gaeilge

Good point. But the Lord's Prayer in English says things differently. If the ad was in Irish it would be fine. Except for the first line, which again has the verb 'to be' and thus is a statement.

@Tony, have you ever heard of false advertising?

Saying 'Our Father, who is in Heaven', might require some proof that he is in Heaven. Or at the very least one of those messages at the end. **

I would enjoy seeing barristers have a go at that one. A bit like the movie 'The man who sued God', which had a great idea, but was crap.

** EG Heaven is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland, terms and conditions may apply. Your soul may be re-possessed if you do not keep up payments.   

[Applesisapples]

Religion and politics divide and therefore should not be allowed any time in a public space for entertainment. There are plenty of opportunities on TV and TV players to advertise these where people at their discretion can opt out. All this nonsense for Tony et al about discrimination is just utter boll*ck*.

[omaghjoe]

Was chatting to a couple of Danes yesterday through work and the chat got going about Religion. They said the Church and Christianity is on the decline in Scandinavia nobody really bothers with it anymore, they have a baptism and a funeral in the Church and don't use it for much else.

Given that these countries have the best education/lowest poverty & crime rates/good standards of living would that not show us the way forward?

Many people in the world would not have those solely as the criteria for a sucessful society. American for example would likely cite the lack of opportunity (and choice) in those and many European countries

But lets say that they are the main criteria, would you say that irreligion was the major contributing factor

[T Fearon]

By coincidence I went to see the Lady in the Van in Newry Omniplex tonight.Based on a true story of an eccentric lady who lived for 15 years in various vans in Camden in playwright Alan Bennett's driveway,the film featured a lot of religious imagery (the lady was formerly a nun) including confessional box scenes,Holy Communion and Mass, not to mention the lady's actual ascension to heaven from the graveyard!

Now what's the difference in these things appearing on a cinema screen as part of an actual film,than a short ad featuring the Lord's Prayer before the film starts,on the same screen?

[Milltown Row2]

By coincidence I went to see the Lady in the Van in Newry Omniplex tonight.Based on a true story of an eccentric lady who lived for 15 years in various vans in Camden in playwright Alan Bennett's driveway,the film featured a lot of religious imagery (the lady was formerly a nun) including confessional box scenes,Holy Communion and Mass, not to mention the lady's actual ascension to heaven from the graveyard!

Now what's the difference in these things appearing on a cinema screen as part of an actual film,than a short ad featuring the Lord's Prayer before the film starts,on the same screen?

Was it promoting Christianity? Plus it was a true story, this Jesus thing is based on myths

[T Fearon]

Absolutely no difference in my book.

[Milltown Row2]

Absolutely no difference in my book.

Which book? Genesis or exodus?? Look its all myths and story telling... Wake up

[T Fearon]

No difference between showing Holy Communion during a film,and a recital of The Lord's Prayer before a film,on the same screen witnessed by the same audience.

[Main Street]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-34921857
BHA  (British Humanist Association) chief executive Andrew Copson said it had made the case for many decades that the school curriculum on religions should include major non-religious worldviews such as humanism."
The education secretary made "an error of law" in leaving "non-religious world views" out of the new religious studies
Why on earth have such a course under religious studies, quite baffling really. Why not a separate course altogether?

What's a non religious worldview anyway, the world goes round, powered by a herd of elephants?
The ultimate desire in life is....... chocolate.
What other worldviews would the BHA want to include in the school curriculum on religions?

[smelmoth]

The ad is not "selling" religion,just reminding or drawing people's attention to arguably the best known Christian prayer.Explain to me why refusing to ice a message on a wedding cake in support of gay marriage is legally discriminatory,while refusing to simply broadcast a well known Christian prayer is not?

I'm sorry but the conspicuous attempts to remove all religion from everyday life, is a form of persecution and a blatant attempt to marginalise (while the buzzwords for everything else are equality and inclusivity) it's practitioners

Another failure to grasp any understanding of the subject matter.

If I refuse to ice cakes (and I have never iced a cake) then nobody can make me. If I set up a business icing cakes but refuse to ice a cake for asian customer or refuse to ice a cake for anyone when the message on the cake proclaims the equality of asians with white europeans then I will rightly be accused of and prosecuted for discrimination. The media storm that goes with it is likely to result in me (and those that defend my actions) being labelled a racist. All very fair and reasonable.

If I make the gable of my icing emporium available for advertising but make a policy of not facilitating political or religious messages then I will only offend those who see historic privilege slipping from their grasp. If I allow only political campaigns for say BNP or religious messages for only the Muslim Brotherhood then I am likely to get myself in some difficulty.

Tony- you really should confirm that you understand these very basic arguments.

[smelmoth]

The ad has been banned on the grounds that it may have caused offence?

no