Author Topic: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race  (Read 5591 times)

kerryforsam19

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2019, 10:36:07 PM »
Don't think anyone divides opinion as much as Cillian O'Connor.

I think his behaviour on the field definitely counts against him. At least in the court of public opinion.

As an aside how many of the 22 players on that top scorers list would people select ahead of COC if it was a straight selection?

I mean it's a strange one. Is he even the best Mayo forward of the modern era. I imagine plenty would select McDonald ahead of him and some might even pick Andy Moran.

Sure he's laying down a marker. How many times has he been sent off?

MayoBuck

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2019, 10:40:25 PM »
COC is a good player but stats can be misleading.

All the top players even in modern time Cooper,Brogan,Canavan etc were players who delivered in All Ireland finals (from play)

COC is decent (not great at frees) and has had how many qualifier games to build up his scoring total compared to his peers.

The ultimate indictment of COC for me is that he lacks pace and cant get a point out of nothing like a Brogan or a Cooper with his speed. Also come All Ireland final day when Mayo needed him he has buckled on his frees compared to Brogan, Cooper, Canavan etc. who delivered when really needed

Cooper played in more qualifier games than Cillian has. Don't see why people come up with these strawman arguments when talking about him. He has got several brilliant scores from play in All Ireland finals, semi-finals etc.

dublin7

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2019, 11:22:55 PM »
COC is a good player but stats can be misleading.

All the top players even in modern time Cooper,Brogan,Canavan etc were players who delivered in All Ireland finals (from play)

COC is decent (not great at frees) and has had how many qualifier games to build up his scoring total compared to his peers.

The ultimate indictment of COC for me is that he lacks pace and cant get a point out of nothing like a Brogan or a Cooper with his speed. Also come All Ireland final day when Mayo needed him he has buckled on his frees compared to Brogan, Cooper, Canavan etc. who delivered when really needed

Cooper played in more qualifier games than Cillian has. Don't see why people come up with these strawman arguments when talking about him. He has got several brilliant scores from play in All Ireland finals, semi-finals etc.

The really top players (in any sport) are the ones who deliver on the big occasions in finals. Brogan, Cooper and Canavan are examples of this in GAA in just the last 10 years. When Mayo needed COC to kick frees in All Ireland finals he has buckled under the pressure. He might be one of Mayo's top players but he's not in the same league on a national scale compared to the trully top forwards.

All  the top sides who have won All Irelands have had at least one top class forward. It's no coincidence that Mayo have lacked that lethal forward in all their hard luck stories down the years

whitey

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2019, 11:23:31 PM »
Don't think anyone divides opinion as much as Cillian O'Connor.

I think his behaviour on the field definitely counts against him. At least in the court of public opinion.

As an aside how many of the 22 players on that top scorers list would people select ahead of COC if it was a straight selection?

I mean it's a strange one. Is he even the best Mayo forward of the modern era. I imagine plenty would select McDonald ahead of him and some might even pick Andy Moran.

Sure he's laying down a marker. How many times has he been sent off?

I only remember him getting sent off once. It was last year against Galway in the FBD

GalwayBayBoy

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2019, 12:03:40 AM »
Don't think anyone divides opinion as much as Cillian O'Connor.

I think his behaviour on the field definitely counts against him. At least in the court of public opinion.

As an aside how many of the 22 players on that top scorers list would people select ahead of COC if it was a straight selection?

I mean it's a strange one. Is he even the best Mayo forward of the modern era. I imagine plenty would select McDonald ahead of him and some might even pick Andy Moran.

Sure he's laying down a marker. How many times has he been sent off?

I only remember him getting sent off once. It was last year against Galway in the FBD

That was in the post for about 5 years to be fair. Has got away with an awful lot. Not even a criticism. Just the way it was.

Mayo4Sam14

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2019, 12:48:50 AM »
Don't think anyone divides opinion as much as Cillian O'Connor.

I think his behaviour on the field definitely counts against him. At least in the court of public opinion.

As an aside how many of the 22 players on that top scorers list would people select ahead of COC if it was a straight selection?

I mean it's a strange one. Is he even the best Mayo forward of the modern era. I imagine plenty would select McDonald ahead of him and some might even pick Andy Moran.

Sure he's laying down a marker. How many times has he been sent off?

I only remember him getting sent off once. It was last year against Galway in the FBD

2014 replay is another
You can forget about Sean Cavanagh as far as he's a man!

Jell 0 Biafra

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2019, 03:03:31 AM »
A big part of the knock (other than his on-field persona) seems to be that his tally is overly reliant on frees.  Dean Rock, for years, had the same criticism raised against him. 

Once scores from frees are worth the same as scores from open play, those critics will be eating their worlds.

Tubberman

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2019, 07:38:19 AM »
COC is a good player but stats can be misleading.

All the top players even in modern time Cooper,Brogan,Canavan etc were players who delivered in All Ireland finals (from play)

COC is decent (not great at frees) and has had how many qualifier games to build up his scoring total compared to his peers.

The ultimate indictment of COC for me is that he lacks pace and cant get a point out of nothing like a Brogan or a Cooper with his speed. Also come All Ireland final day when Mayo needed him he has buckled on his frees compared to Brogan, Cooper, Canavan etc. who delivered when really needed

Cooper played in more qualifier games than Cillian has. Don't see why people come up with these strawman arguments when talking about him. He has got several brilliant scores from play in All Ireland finals, semi-finals etc.

The really top players (in any sport) are the ones who deliver on the big occasions in finals. Brogan, Cooper and Canavan are examples of this in GAA in just the last 10 years. When Mayo needed COC to kick frees in All Ireland finals he has buckled under the pressure. He might be one of Mayo's top players but he's not in the same league on a national scale compared to the trully top forwards.

All  the top sides who have won All Irelands have had at least one top class forward. It's no coincidence that Mayo have lacked that lethal forward in all their hard luck stories down the years

Scored equalising point from play in 2016 all ireland final in injury time in pissing rain from 40m.
His scoring averages are higher against Dublin and Kerry than other counties. 
Not in the same scale as the other forwards except that by the age of 27 he has scored more than any of them did in their whole careers. Some would say the primary job of a forward is to score...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 09:23:16 AM by Tubberman »
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magpie seanie

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2019, 10:57:10 AM »
COC plays in a team that doesn't really have another consistently reliable shooter. He's the go to guy on a team that is and has been one of the top sides in the country throughout his career. I also think Mayo's style of play and the reluctance (at times) of other Mayo forwards to shoot contributes to them being a side that gets a lot of frees.

So COC gets lots of opportunities and he's reasonably accurate. Just off the tip top level I'd say but really good.

It's a pretty amazing achievement to top that list at age 27 all things considered and underlines his importance to Mayo.

People "don't give him the credit he deserves"  ::) a bit because of his cynicism and constant bleating to refs. I think that differentiates him from the other forwards on the list. He really sails close to the wind most of the time and I think a lot of it is unnecessary.

It's a list of top scorers, not a list of the best forwards.

Lar Naparka

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Re: Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2019, 12:20:55 PM »
COC plays in a team that doesn't really have another consistently reliable shooter. He's the go to guy on a team that is and has been one of the top sides in the country throughout his career. I also think Mayo's style of play and the reluctance (at times) of other Mayo forwards to shoot contributes to them being a side that gets a lot of frees.

So COC gets lots of opportunities and he's reasonably accurate. Just off the tip top level I'd say but really good.

It's a pretty amazing achievement to top that list at age 27 all things considered and underlines his importance to Mayo.

People "don't give him the credit he deserves"  ::) a bit because of his cy, I was realnicism and constant bleating to refs. I think that differentiates him from the other forwards
on the list. He really sails close to the wind most of the time and I think a lot of it is unnecessary.

It's a list of top scorers, not a list of the best forwards.
I'd have to agree with you on all counts.
Back in his YPOTY days I was really excited about his potential; he seemed to have all it takes to be a top class player. Then, sadly, he seeme to lose his way and he deserved his reputation for gesticulating at referees and slinging insults and sly digs at all around him.
To be fair to him, he could be getting a lot of "attention" from his markers who knew that he was hot-tempered and were trying to provoke him.He did have serious injuries and that had to lessen his input as time  went on and I know the time he missed THAT free upset the poor fella for months afterwards.
All in all, you would have to make allowances but it still doesn't alter the fact than his potential was being wasted. AOS got at least as much hassle and din't get in ref's bad books in the process.
Last time he got sent off really pissed me off. He deserved the line and could have got it earlier.
I tend to keep an eye on what's happening off the ball throughout a game and Cillian was niggling all around him - a case of getting his retaliation in first. If the ref was doing his job, COC could have been spotted a lot earlier.
However, he seems to be enjoying his football since his latest return and I haven't seen a single narky incident so far. I just hope it stays that way and he gets back to his old self once again.
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