Kerry V Tyrone Fodder AISF 23rd August 2015

[screenexile]

Have been reading this thread for a while and a common theme seems to be that Fitzmaurice is some sort of guru - words used like 'astute' to describe his managerial style. Whilst I appreciate he has won an AI, I cant for the life of me understand how he gained this reputation.

In last years AI final, he had to change system or he would have been destroyed like the Dubs 4 weeks earlier so that was a no brainer - he had to do it...after doing it Kerry got a goal in minute 1 and a goal handed to them from Durcan to win the game - they only scored 9 points...I don't think it was a tactical master class, it was a necessity to try and win the game and kudos for doing that but that doesn't mean he is some sort of genius.

This year to date, it took a Paudie Hughes howler of a decision to keep them alive against Cork on day 1 plus a Hail Mary of an attempt by Fionn Fitzgerald to draw the game - we have seen since that Cork were indeed limited and exposed big time by Kildare. Yes, they won the replay but all factors were in their favour, home venue etc...

I possibly will be proved wrong and will happily admit that come Monday morning but you need to win more than one AI before you can be deemed a managerial great...consider the personnel at his disposal and he would need to get AI's on a regular basis!

Please don't come back saying Donegal Jim only won 1 AI as it is totally different - one started off managing a well established top 4 county (Kerry) and when McGuinness took over, Donegal were near the bottom 4 never mind the top 4. Absolutely no comparison...

Backlash expected .....

You are neglecting the introduction of Donaghy last year against Mayo which swung the tide in their favour. Add to that his feats with Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne where they were 6 points down against a ridiculously strong Maghera team going for 2 All Irelands in a row last year.

He's a good manager and is only starting you can be sure he will win more!

[screenexile]

People are talking about pushing up on Tyrone's kick outs like its a fail safe way to stop all of Tyrone's attacks. As if Mickey hasn't thought that Kerry might do this, in fact I think he will be delighted if they do. Firstly, it means the game is being played on Tyrone's terms, secondly, bar Cluxton we have the most accurate keeper from kick outs in the country, the alternative to short kicks is not to hoof it down the middle and leave it in "the lap of the Gods" (schoolboy analysis). Morgan will place it to on running players, Kerry will need to be very switched on as every player bar I'd say McAliskey and McCurry will be potential targets here. We may even see Paudie McNulty at some point from wing forward a la Cavlan in 2003 as a target. Thirdly, if Kerry do push up, they better be effective in the tackle as it was be great for Tyrone if McAliskey and McCurry are left with a bit of space to work inside. Fourthly, pushing up makes our defensive half very conjested - this is better for a defence than an attack. Also, I don't think Tyrone will  contest midfield at all on Kerry's kick out. Colm Cavanagh will retreat yo the corner of the D  along with nearly everyone else and invite Kerry on and encourage them to kick from distance. If Kerry can kick 15 or so long range points then they'll probably win the game - but  that's not easy though. Monaghan scored some brilliant points but they weren't coming regularly enough.

My feeling is that Kerry won't push up on Tyrone. They will play them at their own game like they did v Donegal and sit back, stifle Tyrone and win the game by keeping it a dog fight and expect to be more accurate than Tyrone when the chances arise. I think Kerry will win but only by a point or two and if it's close going into the last few minutes I think Kerry may just be the more jittery of the two.

That all falls down because Mc Aliskey and mc curry aren't Canavan and O Neill. They are two very good players but outside free taking they are not good enough to carry the scoring burden of the team.
I don't think based on your posts you've the slightest idea what you're up against on Sunday . But you will after 25 minutes.

For Tyrone to win Kerry need a midfield meltdown , an off day in front of the posts and a poor day in terms of work rate and tackle count and give away extensive frees to allow Tyrone put up a winning score . There are far too many variables there. You still haven't explained any aspect of how you expect to transition from defence to attack at a fast enough rate to expose any potential weakness in the Kerry defence .

I'm loving all this analysis that Tyrone are a top team again. They got relegated from the league, got beat by Donegal, beat a series of Division 3 & 4 teams (and Meath) and then played reasonably well against a leggy Monaghan team.

Reality is Kerry's midfield and forward line will blow Tyrone away!

Getting nervous? 

Not really... it's no odds to me who wins I just think Kerry will as they're too good. . . Tyrone GAA's Facebook plea/begging match for Derry to support them on Sunday didn't really wash with me either!! Has that been mentioned yet? It was cringey desperate stuff!!

[supersarsfields]

Yeah I believe you. No odds to you alright.

[AZOffaly]

I doubt Tyrone would be begging too much for Derry to support them. I'd say there'll be loads of Tyrone lads and ladies there. I'm not sure how many Derry people will be there, they don't seem to bring a lot of fans to their senior games, so it's hard to imagine it's worthwhile begging the few there to shout for Tyrone.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Not really... it's no odds to me who wins I just think Kerry will as they're too good. . . Tyrone GAA's Facebook plea/begging match for Derry to support them on Sunday didn't really wash with me either!! Has that been mentioned yet? It was cringey desperate stuff!!

Are you going on Sunday to support your minors?

[Bensars]

You could be right and if it is the case I'd imagine you will be skipping down Draperstown Main Street.
Your constant attempts at being a mood hoover are failing.

Once again your much more successful neighbours are at a level and a stage of the championship you can only hear old people in Derry  talk about.

But keep it up, it's fantastic to read and the seeth is palpable.


By the way I will be supporting Derry minors also

[INDIANA]

I doubt Tyrone would be begging too much for Derry to support them. I'd say there'll be loads of Tyrone lads and ladies there. I'm not sure how many Derry people will be there, they don't seem to bring a lot of fans to their senior games, so it's hard to imagine it's worthwhile begging the few there to shout for Tyrone.

Small GAA community AZ in Derry . Very vocal and hugely passionate about the GAA but it's a small pick

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm loving all this analysis that Tyrone are a top team again....

Not half as much as we'll be loving it come 5pm on Sunday if you 'experts' haven't quite called it correctly! 

Incidentally, don't know what FB page you're referring to but it's certainly not the official Tyrone GAA FB page -- probably one set up by you hoors!

[AZOffaly]

I doubt Tyrone would be begging too much for Derry to support them. I'd say there'll be loads of Tyrone lads and ladies there. I'm not sure how many Derry people will be there, they don't seem to bring a lot of fans to their senior games, so it's hard to imagine it's worthwhile begging the few there to shout for Tyrone.

Small GAA community AZ in Derry . Very vocal and hugely passionate about the GAA but it's a small pick

I'm not doubting the numbers who do go are very passionate, I'm just saying they have small numbers so why would Tyrone 'beg' them to shout for them on Sunday. Might as well stand outside mass in Donnycarney church and beg.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm not doubting the numbers who do go are very passionate, I'm just saying they have small numbers so why would Tyrone 'beg' them to shout for them on Sunday. Might as well stand outside mass in Donnycarney church and beg.

Their Minors are in the curtain-raiser AZ, but regardless, we know from bitter experience just how utterly futile such a request would be!

[AZOffaly]

I'm not doubting the numbers who do go are very passionate, I'm just saying they have small numbers so why would Tyrone 'beg' them to shout for them on Sunday. Might as well stand outside mass in Donnycarney church and beg.

Their Minors are in the curtain-raiser AZ, but regardless, we know from bitter experience just how utterly futile such a request would be!

I know that! How many Derry fans would Tyrone think will be at the curtain raiser?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I know that! How many Derry fans would Tyrone think will be at the curtain raiser?

Ah right, sorry. Hard to say, but probably close to a full ticket allocation I'd imagine.

[Mikhailov]

Have been reading this thread for a while and a common theme seems to be that Fitzmaurice is some sort of guru - words used like 'astute' to describe his managerial style. Whilst I appreciate he has won an AI, I cant for the life of me understand how he gained this reputation.

In last years AI final, he had to change system or he would have been destroyed like the Dubs 4 weeks earlier so that was a no brainer - he had to do it...after doing it Kerry got a goal in minute 1 and a goal handed to them from Durcan to win the game - they only scored 9 points...I don't think it was a tactical master class, it was a necessity to try and win the game and kudos for doing that but that doesn't mean he is some sort of genius.

This year to date, it took a Paudie Hughes howler of a decision to keep them alive against Cork on day 1 plus a Hail Mary of an attempt by Fionn Fitzgerald to draw the game - we have seen since that Cork were indeed limited and exposed big time by Kildare. Yes, they won the replay but all factors were in their favour, home venue etc...

I possibly will be proved wrong and will happily admit that come Monday morning but you need to win more than one AI before you can be deemed a managerial great...consider the personnel at his disposal and he would need to get AI's on a regular basis!

Please don't come back saying Donegal Jim only won 1 AI as it is totally different - one started off managing a well established top 4 county (Kerry) and when McGuinness took over, Donegal were near the bottom 4 never mind the top 4. Absolutely no comparison...

Backlash expected .....

You are neglecting the introduction of Donaghy last year against Mayo which swung the tide in their favour. Add to that his feats with Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne where they were 6 points down against a ridiculously strong Maghera team going for 2 All Irelands in a row last year.

He's a good manager and is only starting you can be sure he will win more!

If he hadn't of introduced Donaghy he would have been lambasted - he left it far too late to introduce him and was lucky to survive and get a replay.
Are you now telling me SM Lockhart and Paul Hughes are destined for greatness because they led Maghera to 2 Hogan Cup finals in a row....

[Rois]

I rate this Tyrone team very highly . In 12 months time .

I think mickey setup his team to get to the last 4. You can't win an AI playing like this in my opinion . Good performance on Sunday and it's been a good year . If he pulls it off he is a miracle worker but I can't see it this time round

Really interesting point and on a theme touched on by Mickey Harte last night at our chat night.  He said that Kerry's win last year was probably a year ahead of schedule.  So he's thinking that way too, and is also saying that he thinks Kerry are stronger now than they were last year. 

Tyrone weren't begging Derry to support them, the post encouraged Tyrone supporters to get in early and support Derry.  screenexile has twisted it.  The guy who wrote the post about the Derry minors of 50 years ago (many of them guys of my dad's vintage at St Columb's College) is a very energetic and ferverent GAA man and in no way "desperate" or "cringey".   

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Here's the post in question

Honouring Something Special

Fifty years ago one of the great Minor teams won the All-Ireland. It wasn't a Tyrone team. It was instead from our neighbours Derry, actually the first-ever Derry team to win the Ulster Minor Championship. Something about that Derry Minor team mesmerised, captivated and inspired Gaels across Ulster. Skilful, glamorous and supremely-organised, it drew heavily on the St Columb's College Hogan Cup-winning team (which had also featured two of Tyrone's greatest GAA people, Brendan Dolan RIP and our recent past County Chairman, Liam Nelis). Some of Ulster's finest-ever footballers graced those Derry Minors: Eamon Coleman RIP, Seamus Lagan, Malachy McAfee, Adrian McGuckin, Mickey Niblock, Gerry O'Loughlin and Tom Quinn among others. Three years later they collected the All-Ireland U21 title. And but for the chaos that then erupted here, who knows what they might have achieved as Seniors. Exceptional men. Exceptional times.

Why are we talking about a long-gone Derry team on Tyrone social media? Because next Sunday another Derry Minor team goes to Croke Park. They're there not as Tyrone's rivals but as the Champions of our Province. They follow in the footsteps of Oak Leaf greatness. So if you're following Tyrone to Croke Park, then get there for 1.30pm and get behind Derry. Apart from anything else you'll be honouring and respecting something very special from half-a-century ago, a team that set a standard and meant something for so many of us. And that should be our privilege. 'Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine ... people live in one another's shelter.'