Kerry V Tyrone Fodder AISF 23rd August 2015

[supersarsfields]

I'm not disagreeing with you. A lot of it is handpassing. But it forward handpassing. Not the side to side stuff. That article that I posted earlier had this, and I totally agree with it.

So in respect of all that Tyrone are often moving from their own full-back line, or a kick-out situation, to converting a score, all within 20 seconds (some scoring movements were as short as six and eight seconds)and with just three or four phases involved.

And Tyrone have great runners with the ball in Harte, Cavanagh, Donnelly etc. Better than some people give credit for. Kerry might be able to nullify this, but doing so will affect their play as well. We just don't know, but I'm more optimistic at this stage anyway. 

[Keane]

But you don't kick the ball so even if Kerry do leave space there they will have plenty of time to get back . It's hard to change a system in two weeks. I've watched your last 4-5 games and it's not even a mixture of long and short ball . It's all short. When players spend 9 months wired to play a certain way it's hard to change it in a week.

You don't even transition from the back like Dublin with a foot pass it's all hand passing . Maybe the odd 15-20 yard pass. But nothing to stretch a defence . You will have to radically alter your system to win this game . Tough going in two weeks . Plus no Canavans , stephen O Neil's etc genius levels to win a game on their own

The issue will be the speed at which they get the ball from back to front stopping Kerry funnelling back quickly enough.

Eamonn Donoghue had an interesting article in the Examiner saying Tyrone's scores against Monaghan took something like an average of 20 seconds. They may not kick the ball, but the have no problem with the speed at which they can move it.

The area of interest here is the fact that most of their scores came from Morgan finding a free man in his own half from where they burned up the pitch. If Kerry push up effectively on those kicks it will make it much harder for these attacking pods to form.

If they try to push up and do a bad job of it Tyrone will be capable of getting a lot of scores.

EDIT: I see someone else had already mentioned the article, carry on

[Keane]

I'm not disagreeing with you. A lot of it is handpassing. But it forward handpassing. Not the side to side stuff. That article that I posted earlier had this, and I totally agree with it.

And Tyrone have great runners with the ball in Harte, Cavanagh, Donnelly etc. Better than some people give credit for. Kerry might be able to nullify this, but doing so will affect their play as well. We just don't know, but I'm more optimistic at this stage anyway. 

I think if Kerry can shut down Donnelly and Harte that's the game. Looking forward to seeing how they will try to go about it.

Someone mentioned Killian Young marked Harte to good effect in 12 so maybe they'll try the same again. Presume Walsh will be stationed on Donnelly's side.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Hopefully Deegan pays attention to Walsh and O'Brien as they are foul machines, unlikely I'd imagine.

[supersarsfields]

I'm not disagreeing with you. A lot of it is handpassing. But it forward handpassing. Not the side to side stuff. That article that I posted earlier had this, and I totally agree with it.

And Tyrone have great runners with the ball in Harte, Cavanagh, Donnelly etc. Better than some people give credit for. Kerry might be able to nullify this, but doing so will affect their play as well. We just don't know, but I'm more optimistic at this stage anyway. 

I think if Kerry can shut down Donnelly and Harte that's the game. Looking forward to seeing how they will try to go about it.

Someone mentioned Killian Young marked Harte to good effect in 12 so maybe they'll try the same again. Presume Walsh will be stationed on Donnelly's side.

Think Harte started that game in HF if I remember right. from memory was that the game he had a mare on frees?

[BennyHarp]

People are talking about pushing up on Tyrone's kick outs like its a fail safe way to stop all of Tyrone's attacks. As if Mickey hasn't thought that Kerry might do this, in fact I think he will be delighted if they do. Firstly, it means the game is being played on Tyrone's terms, secondly, bar Cluxton we have the most accurate keeper from kick outs in the country, the alternative to short kicks is not to hoof it down the middle and leave it in "the lap of the Gods" (schoolboy analysis). Morgan will place it to on running players, Kerry will need to be very switched on as every player bar I'd say McAliskey and McCurry will be potential targets here. We may even see Paudie McNulty at some point from wing forward a la Cavlan in 2003 as a target. Thirdly, if Kerry do push up, they better be effective in the tackle as it was be great for Tyrone if McAliskey and McCurry are left with a bit of space to work inside. Fourthly, pushing up makes our defensive half very conjested - this is better for a defence than an attack. Also, I don't think Tyrone will  contest midfield at all on Kerry's kick out. Colm Cavanagh will retreat yo the corner of the D  along with nearly everyone else and invite Kerry on and encourage them to kick from distance. If Kerry can kick 15 or so long range points then they'll probably win the game - but  that's not easy though. Monaghan scored some brilliant points but they weren't coming regularly enough.

My feeling is that Kerry won't push up on Tyrone. They will play them at their own game like they did v Donegal and sit back, stifle Tyrone and win the game by keeping it a dog fight and expect to be more accurate than Tyrone when the chances arise. I think Kerry will win but only by a point or two and if it's close going into the last few minutes I think Kerry may just be the more jittery of the two.

[Keane]

Think Harte started that game in HF if I remember right. from memory was that the game he had a mare on frees?

I don't remember re:frees. If Harte lines out more as a HB than HF on Sunday I find it hard to know how they will try to keep him quiet. Probably in that case Walsh will play on his side and keep an eye.

[INDIANA]

People are talking about pushing up on Tyrone's kick outs like its a fail safe way to stop all of Tyrone's attacks. As if Mickey hasn't thought that Kerry might do this, in fact I think he will be delighted if they do. Firstly, it means the game is being played on Tyrone's terms, secondly, bar Cluxton we have the most accurate keeper from kick outs in the country, the alternative to short kicks is not to hoof it down the middle and leave it in "the lap of the Gods" (schoolboy analysis). Morgan will place it to on running players, Kerry will need to be very switched on as every player bar I'd say McAliskey and McCurry will be potential targets here. We may even see Paudie McNulty at some point from wing forward a la Cavlan in 2003 as a target. Thirdly, if Kerry do push up, they better be effective in the tackle as it was be great for Tyrone if McAliskey and McCurry are left with a bit of space to work inside. Fourthly, pushing up makes our defensive half very conjested - this is better for a defence than an attack. Also, I don't think Tyrone will  contest midfield at all on Kerry's kick out. Colm Cavanagh will retreat yo the corner of the D  along with nearly everyone else and invite Kerry on and encourage them to kick from distance. If Kerry can kick 15 or so long range points then they'll probably win the game - but  that's not easy though. Monaghan scored some brilliant points but they weren't coming regularly enough.

My feeling is that Kerry won't push up on Tyrone. They will play them at their own game like they did v Donegal and sit back, stifle Tyrone and win the game by keeping it a dog fight and expect to be more accurate than Tyrone when the chances arise. I think Kerry will win but only by a point or two and if it's close going into the last few minutes I think Kerry may just be the more jittery of the two.

That all falls down because Mc Aliskey and mc curry aren't Canavan and O Neill. They are two very good players but outside free taking they are not good enough to carry the scoring burden of the team.
I don't think based on your posts you've the slightest idea what you're up against on Sunday . But you will after 25 minutes.

For Tyrone to win Kerry need a midfield meltdown , an off day in front of the posts and a poor day in terms of work rate and tackle count and give away extensive frees to allow Tyrone put up a winning score . There are far too many variables there. You still haven't explained any aspect of how you expect to transition from defence to attack at a fast enough rate to expose any potential weakness in the Kerry defence .

[supersarsfields]

To be fair Indiana, you just can't see past a Kerry win. Which is fine, but I personally think you're underestimating Tyrone. Tyrone have two strong midfielders themselves (Yes in different ways to Kerry's) so I don't expect Tyrone to be cleaned out in midfield. Both Colm and Mattie if they finish the season well could be considered for All stars.
The stats are already there to explain how Tyrone have broken from defence to attack at speed. It shouldn't really need anymore explanation.

[Keane]

To be fair Indiana, you just can't see past a Kerry win. Which is fine, but I personally think you're underestimating Tyrone. Tyrone have two strong midfielders themselves (Yes in different ways to Kerry's) so I don't expect Tyrone to be cleaned out in midfield. Both Colm and Mattie if they finish the season well could be considered for All stars.
The stats are already there to explain how Tyrone have broken from defence to attack at speed. It shouldn't really need anymore explanation.

A concern for Tyrone would be that they only won 70% of their own kickouts against Monaghan who didn't actually put all that much energy into stopping the short ones.

Monaghan won all but one of their own kickouts as Tyrone allowed them. Hard to think they would be willing to concede all Kerry's kickouts.

[INDIANA]

To be fair Indiana, you just can't see past a Kerry win. Which is fine, but I personally think you're underestimating Tyrone. Tyrone have two strong midfielders themselves (Yes in different ways to Kerry's) so I don't expect Tyrone to be cleaned out in midfield. Both Colm and Mattie if they finish the season well could be considered for All stars.
The stats are already there to explain how Tyrone have broken from defence to attack at speed. It shouldn't really need anymore explanation.

I rate this Tyrone team very highly . In 12 months time .

I think mickey setup his team to get to the last 4. You can't win an AI playing like this in my opinion . Good performance on Sunday and it's been a good year . If he pulls it off he is a miracle worker but I can't see it this time round

[Mikhailov]

Have been reading this thread for a while and a common theme seems to be that Fitzmaurice is some sort of guru - words used like 'astute' to describe his managerial style. Whilst I appreciate he has won an AI, I cant for the life of me understand how he gained this reputation.

In last years AI final, he had to change system or he would have been destroyed like the Dubs 4 weeks earlier so that was a no brainer - he had to do it...after doing it Kerry got a goal in minute 1 and a goal handed to them from Durcan to win the game - they only scored 9 points...I don't think it was a tactical master class, it was a necessity to try and win the game and kudos for doing that but that doesn't mean he is some sort of genius.

This year to date, it took a Paudie Hughes howler of a decision to keep them alive against Cork on day 1 plus a Hail Mary of an attempt by Fionn Fitzgerald to draw the game - we have seen since that Cork were indeed limited and exposed big time by Kildare. Yes, they won the replay but all factors were in their favour, home venue etc...

I possibly will be proved wrong and will happily admit that come Monday morning but you need to win more than one AI before you can be deemed a managerial great...consider the personnel at his disposal and he would need to get AI's on a regular basis!

Please don't come back saying Donegal Jim only won 1 AI as it is totally different - one started off managing a well established top 4 county (Kerry) and when McGuinness took over, Donegal were near the bottom 4 never mind the top 4. Absolutely no comparison...

Backlash expected .....

[Stall the Bailer]

To be fair Indiana, you just can't see past a Kerry win. Which is fine, but I personally think you're underestimating Tyrone. Tyrone have two strong midfielders themselves (Yes in different ways to Kerry's) so I don't expect Tyrone to be cleaned out in midfield. Both Colm and Mattie if they finish the season well could be considered for All stars.
The stats are already there to explain how Tyrone have broken from defence to attack at speed. It shouldn't really need anymore explanation.

I rate this Tyrone team very highly . In 12 months time .

I think mickey setup his team to get to the last 4. You can't win an AI playing like this in my opinion . Good performance on Sunday and it's been a good year . If he pulls it off he is a miracle worker but I can't see it this time round

This may not be the case. Tyrone have a fully fit squad at the moment. We don't know what next year will bring in retirements or injuries.
Tyrone have improved a lot since the Donegal game, and I would be confident of beating Donegal if we had to play them now.  Kerry are a step up on Donegal, I just hope Tyrone have improved since the Monaghan match, like the way there has been improvement between matches before Monaghan. Hopefully we are good to take this chance now.

[screenexile]

People are talking about pushing up on Tyrone's kick outs like its a fail safe way to stop all of Tyrone's attacks. As if Mickey hasn't thought that Kerry might do this, in fact I think he will be delighted if they do. Firstly, it means the game is being played on Tyrone's terms, secondly, bar Cluxton we have the most accurate keeper from kick outs in the country, the alternative to short kicks is not to hoof it down the middle and leave it in "the lap of the Gods" (schoolboy analysis). Morgan will place it to on running players, Kerry will need to be very switched on as every player bar I'd say McAliskey and McCurry will be potential targets here. We may even see Paudie McNulty at some point from wing forward a la Cavlan in 2003 as a target. Thirdly, if Kerry do push up, they better be effective in the tackle as it was be great for Tyrone if McAliskey and McCurry are left with a bit of space to work inside. Fourthly, pushing up makes our defensive half very conjested - this is better for a defence than an attack. Also, I don't think Tyrone will  contest midfield at all on Kerry's kick out. Colm Cavanagh will retreat yo the corner of the D  along with nearly everyone else and invite Kerry on and encourage them to kick from distance. If Kerry can kick 15 or so long range points then they'll probably win the game - but  that's not easy though. Monaghan scored some brilliant points but they weren't coming regularly enough.

My feeling is that Kerry won't push up on Tyrone. They will play them at their own game like they did v Donegal and sit back, stifle Tyrone and win the game by keeping it a dog fight and expect to be more accurate than Tyrone when the chances arise. I think Kerry will win but only by a point or two and if it's close going into the last few minutes I think Kerry may just be the more jittery of the two.

That all falls down because Mc Aliskey and mc curry aren't Canavan and O Neill. They are two very good players but outside free taking they are not good enough to carry the scoring burden of the team.
I don't think based on your posts you've the slightest idea what you're up against on Sunday . But you will after 25 minutes.

For Tyrone to win Kerry need a midfield meltdown , an off day in front of the posts and a poor day in terms of work rate and tackle count and give away extensive frees to allow Tyrone put up a winning score . There are far too many variables there. You still haven't explained any aspect of how you expect to transition from defence to attack at a fast enough rate to expose any potential weakness in the Kerry defence .

I'm loving all this analysis that Tyrone are a top team again. They got relegated from the league, got beat by Donegal, beat a series of Division 3 & 4 teams (and Meath) and then played reasonably well against a leggy Monaghan team.

Reality is Kerry's midfield and forward line will blow Tyrone away!

[supersarsfields]

People are talking about pushing up on Tyrone's kick outs like its a fail safe way to stop all of Tyrone's attacks. As if Mickey hasn't thought that Kerry might do this, in fact I think he will be delighted if they do. Firstly, it means the game is being played on Tyrone's terms, secondly, bar Cluxton we have the most accurate keeper from kick outs in the country, the alternative to short kicks is not to hoof it down the middle and leave it in "the lap of the Gods" (schoolboy analysis). Morgan will place it to on running players, Kerry will need to be very switched on as every player bar I'd say McAliskey and McCurry will be potential targets here. We may even see Paudie McNulty at some point from wing forward a la Cavlan in 2003 as a target. Thirdly, if Kerry do push up, they better be effective in the tackle as it was be great for Tyrone if McAliskey and McCurry are left with a bit of space to work inside. Fourthly, pushing up makes our defensive half very conjested - this is better for a defence than an attack. Also, I don't think Tyrone will  contest midfield at all on Kerry's kick out. Colm Cavanagh will retreat yo the corner of the D  along with nearly everyone else and invite Kerry on and encourage them to kick from distance. If Kerry can kick 15 or so long range points then they'll probably win the game - but  that's not easy though. Monaghan scored some brilliant points but they weren't coming regularly enough.

My feeling is that Kerry won't push up on Tyrone. They will play them at their own game like they did v Donegal and sit back, stifle Tyrone and win the game by keeping it a dog fight and expect to be more accurate than Tyrone when the chances arise. I think Kerry will win but only by a point or two and if it's close going into the last few minutes I think Kerry may just be the more jittery of the two.

That all falls down because Mc Aliskey and mc curry aren't Canavan and O Neill. They are two very good players but outside free taking they are not good enough to carry the scoring burden of the team.
I don't think based on your posts you've the slightest idea what you're up against on Sunday . But you will after 25 minutes.

For Tyrone to win Kerry need a midfield meltdown , an off day in front of the posts and a poor day in terms of work rate and tackle count and give away extensive frees to allow Tyrone put up a winning score . There are far too many variables there. You still haven't explained any aspect of how you expect to transition from defence to attack at a fast enough rate to expose any potential weakness in the Kerry defence .

I'm loving all this analysis that Tyrone are a top team again. They got relegated from the league, got beat by Donegal, beat a series of Division 3 & 4 teams (and Meath) and then played reasonably well against a leggy Monaghan team.

Reality is Kerry's midfield and forward line will blow Tyrone away!

Getting nervous?