Kerry V Tyrone Fodder AISF 23rd August 2015

[omaghjoe]

When you compare the 2 sides Tyrone at a push have probably 4 players who would get into the Kerry team and Kerry have serious firepower on the bench as well. If Harte gets a win with this side then I'll eat my hat and admit that he is a tactical genius.

You see, this is were people fall into a misconception that because Tyrone play to a "system" that the players aren't particularly good. It takes good players to play a system effectively. But player by player I would argue that Tyrone match up fairly well. I'd take either of Tyrone's goal keepers over Kealy. I'd have McNamee and McCarron at this stage of their careers over any of the 3 Kerry full backs. McNabb v Lyne is 6 of one half a dozen of the other, but I'd have Justy (or Joe) and Petey Harte  all day over Crowley and Young. Midfield is interesting but Matty Donnelly has been one of the stand out players in Ireland this year, so I'd take him over Maher. Moran is superb but Colm does a great job in the "system", but plainly Moran is the better player. I think Kerry's half forward line is very over rated and is much of a muchness with Tyrone's although Conor Meyler and Mark Bradley will prove to be outstanding talents in the future. O'Brien is probably a better footballer than McCann but I haven't seen a lot of him. Granted only Sean Cavanagh would make the full forward line. So in my view, it's fairly lazy to write the Tyrone players off just because they play in a tactical system or maybe you just haven't seen very much of them. On my count I'd have 7 or 8 players with a few others very close.

Edit: Though I must admit, that's a fairly handy looking bench and might just be the winning of the game.

Oh goody, this will get me heated up a bit now at last.

McNamee over Enright or Marc? You're having a laugh! Have you watched Kerry's games so far where Enright has conceeded what, 1 point from play in 4 games..

Crowley is the Allstar centre back in case you missed last year..not 100% fit right now, but again. Jokeshop comment if you really think either McMahon over Crowley..Harte is an attacking half back/half forward (and a good one) so not comparable.

Midfield, you say Matty over Maher..well we'll see after Sunday I guess. Maher only woke up at semi final stage last year in fairness, but is highly effective on his day.  Matty is going well. Probably a natural half forward.

The point you SHOULD have made is that these player ratings or whatever, don't win you games. Tactics, systems teamplay CAN. Tyrone have a very strong teamwork and workrate ethic, a clearly defined and honed system of play (like it or not) and thus will beat many teams with supposedly stronger talent available. Tyrone also have a top notch manager.

Someone suggested the Kerry team named may not start..I assure you it will. Fitzy doesn't do the dummy team thing really. The only time this was NOT the case was the panicky preparation to the Mayo replay last year, when to avoid the media frenzy that would have occured with Marc O'Sé being dropped, he made the change on the day.

Well the two corner backs would be Enright (who is the best FB of the 6) and McCarron. FB is a toss up for me, athleticism and meanness v brains and experience, personally I would go for the former... but Im prob biased.

Also its Justin McMahon not Joe, he's injured still a tight call I admit. Hang on Joe's on the bench, what's the story? Thought he had surgery?

Personally if I was picking a team from all squads it would be this

Morgan
McCarron McNamee Enright
Crowley McMahon Harte
Moran Maher
Cavanagh Cooper Donnelly
O'Donoghue Donaghy McCurry

O'Neill O'Se Young McMahon Lyne/McNabb O'Mahoney Cavanagh Sheenan Walsh Keane O'Sullivan McAliskey Geaney

McMahon v Crowley could be vise versa BTW

That'd be my team interestingly out of the two HF lines only Walsh makes the squad!

So Kerry with undoubtedly the strongest panel (esp forwards) but marginally less players in the team, I think the teams are both well matched on paper.

But  individual quality and positions is all an irrelevance. It will come down to team tactics, who enacts them best, hunger, and above all....FAITH!

[Il Bomber Destro]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

[BennyHarp]

When you compare the 2 sides Tyrone at a push have probably 4 players who would get into the Kerry team and Kerry have serious firepower on the bench as well. If Harte gets a win with this side then I'll eat my hat and admit that he is a tactical genius.

You see, this is were people fall into a misconception that because Tyrone play to a "system" that the players aren't particularly good. It takes good players to play a system effectively. But player by player I would argue that Tyrone match up fairly well. I'd take either of Tyrone's goal keepers over Kealy. I'd have McNamee and McCarron at this stage of their careers over any of the 3 Kerry full backs. McNabb v Lyne is 6 of one half a dozen of the other, but I'd have Justy (or Joe) and Petey Harte  all day over Crowley and Young. Midfield is interesting but Matty Donnelly has been one of the stand out players in Ireland this year, so I'd take him over Maher. Moran is superb but Colm does a great job in the "system", but plainly Moran is the better player. I think Kerry's half forward line is very over rated and is much of a muchness with Tyrone's although Conor Meyler and Mark Bradley will prove to be outstanding talents in the future. O'Brien is probably a better footballer than McCann but I haven't seen a lot of him. Granted only Sean Cavanagh would make the full forward line. So in my view, it's fairly lazy to write the Tyrone players off just because they play in a tactical system or maybe you just haven't seen very much of them. On my count I'd have 7 or 8 players with a few others very close.

Edit: Though I must admit, that's a fairly handy looking bench and might just be the winning of the game.

Oh goody, this will get me heated up a bit now at last.

McNamee over Enright or Marc? You're having a laugh! Have you watched Kerry's games so far where Enright has conceeded what, 1 point from play in 4 games..

Crowley is the Allstar centre back in case you missed last year..not 100% fit right now, but again. Jokeshop comment if you really think either McMahon over Crowley..Harte is an attacking half back/half forward (and a good one) so not comparable.

Midfield, you say Matty over Maher..well we'll see after Sunday I guess. Maher only woke up at semi final stage last year in fairness, but is highly effective on his day.  Matty is going well. Probably a natural half forward.

The point you SHOULD have made is that these player ratings or whatever, don't win you games. Tactics, systems teamplay CAN. Tyrone have a very strong teamwork and workrate ethic, a clearly defined and honed system of play (like it or not) and thus will beat many teams with supposedly stronger talent available. Tyrone also have a top notch manager.

Someone suggested the Kerry team named may not start..I assure you it will. Fitzy doesn't do the dummy team thing really. The only time this was NOT the case was the panicky preparation to the Mayo replay last year, when to avoid the media frenzy that would have occured with Marc O'Sé being dropped, he made the change on the day.

Excellent, it's not hard to get the old arrogant Kerry juices flowing,  . Your defence has conceded 6 goals in a poor Munster championship, 2 to a decidedly average Tipp team, Marc O'Se is/was a good player but way past his best, you clearly know nothing about McNamee so there can't really be a debate here. But as a defender he is top notch and as a footballer, well, consider his point v Monaghan as an example of what he can do. McCarron before Enright is a personal opinion, not much in it in my view but certainly not enough to swaying the game.

You are massively under rating the McMahons here by the way. Crowley has had one decent year, I care little for the All Star selections as a judge of a player, (ask Brian McGuigan) but Justy, when fit is a rolls Royce defender and if you think its a joke shop to put him in the same category as Crowley then it's Kerry arrogance at its best.

Harte may well be an attacking half back but he is there and is definitely comparable, but if your pushing him up then it makes our half forward line much more effective than Kerry's where Donnacha Walsh and Buckley are distinctly average.

Maher v Donnelly? Yes indeed, let Sunday decide.

Usually I don't compare man for man as teamwork, tactics (system), heart and work rate can indeed beat a team of better players. But I'm sick of the line trotted out all week that Kerry just have better players than Tyrone, in my view, they are well matched. Kerry have a better squad, but there's not much it in. Remember, Kerry won last years All Ireland by playing to a system too and continue to do so. How else do you explain Walsh's position on the team over some much better ball players? Just because you have a green and gold jersey on, doesn't necessarily make you a better player. If Tyrone win on Sunday (and it's a big if) then we will hear analysts chat about the system and tactics etc. But if we win on Sunday it will be  because we actually have some very good footballers.

[Estimator]

Shades of 2003 here. Loads of people expecting a score fest. With goals being scored for both sides and point totals at +14. It was exactly the same in '03. Both Kerry and Tyrone had wracked up big scores on their way to the semi final that year. It was the reason I wanted to go to Croke Park to watch the game live. I also convinced a few mates to go as well. Suffice to say, they were not impressed with me.
I think Sunday's game could follow the same pattern with less than 24pts being scored between the two sides.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

When you compare the 2 sides Tyrone at a push have probably 4 players who would get into the Kerry team and Kerry have serious firepower on the bench as well. If Harte gets a win with this side then I'll eat my hat and admit that he is a tactical genius.

You see, this is were people fall into a misconception that because Tyrone play to a "system" that the players aren't particularly good. It takes good players to play a system effectively. But player by player I would argue that Tyrone match up fairly well. I'd take either of Tyrone's goal keepers over Kealy. I'd have McNamee and McCarron at this stage of their careers over any of the 3 Kerry full backs. McNabb v Lyne is 6 of one half a dozen of the other, but I'd have Justy (or Joe) and Petey Harte  all day over Crowley and Young. Midfield is interesting but Matty Donnelly has been one of the stand out players in Ireland this year, so I'd take him over Maher. Moran is superb but Colm does a great job in the "system", but plainly Moran is the better player. I think Kerry's half forward line is very over rated and is much of a muchness with Tyrone's although Conor Meyler and Mark Bradley will prove to be outstanding talents in the future. O'Brien is probably a better footballer than McCann but I haven't seen a lot of him. Granted only Sean Cavanagh would make the full forward line. So in my view, it's fairly lazy to write the Tyrone players off just because they play in a tactical system or maybe you just haven't seen very much of them. On my count I'd have 7 or 8 players with a few others very close.

Edit: Though I must admit, that's a fairly handy looking bench and might just be the winning of the game.

Oh goody, this will get me heated up a bit now at last.

McNamee over Enright or Marc? You're having a laugh! Have you watched Kerry's games so far where Enright has conceeded what, 1 point from play in 4 games..

Crowley is the Allstar centre back in case you missed last year..not 100% fit right now, but again. Jokeshop comment if you really think either McMahon over Crowley..Harte is an attacking half back/half forward (and a good one) so not comparable.

Midfield, you say Matty over Maher..well we'll see after Sunday I guess. Maher only woke up at semi final stage last year in fairness, but is highly effective on his day.  Matty is going well. Probably a natural half forward.

The point you SHOULD have made is that these player ratings or whatever, don't win you games. Tactics, systems teamplay CAN. Tyrone have a very strong teamwork and workrate ethic, a clearly defined and honed system of play (like it or not) and thus will beat many teams with supposedly stronger talent available. Tyrone also have a top notch manager.

Someone suggested the Kerry team named may not start..I assure you it will. Fitzy doesn't do the dummy team thing really. The only time this was NOT the case was the panicky preparation to the Mayo replay last year, when to avoid the media frenzy that would have occured with Marc O'Sé being dropped, he made the change on the day.

Excellent, it's not hard to get the old arrogant Kerry juices flowing,  . Your defence has conceded 6 goals in a poor Munster championship, 2 to a decidedly average Tipp team, Marc O'Se is/was a good player but way past his best, you clearly know nothing about McNamee so there can't really be a debate here. But as a defender he is top notch and as a footballer, well, consider his point v Monaghan as an example of what he can do. McCarron before Enright is a personal opinion, not much in it in my view but certainly not enough to swaying the game.

You are massively under rating the McMahons here by the way. Crowley has had one decent year, I care little for the All Star selections as a judge of a player, (ask Brian McGuigan) but Justy, when fit is a rolls Royce defender and if you think its a joke shop to put him in the same category as Crowley then it's Kerry arrogance at its best.

Harte may well be an attacking half back but he is there and is definitely comparable, but if your pushing him up then it makes our half forward line much more effective than Kerry's where Donnacha Walsh and Buckley are distinctly average.

Maher v Donnelly? Yes indeed, let Sunday decide.

Usually I don't compare man for man as teamwork, tactics (system), heart and work rate can indeed beat a team of better players. But I'm sick of the line trotted out all week that Kerry just have better players than Tyrone, in my view, they are well matched. Kerry have a better squad, but there's not much it in. Remember, Kerry won last years All Ireland by playing to a system too and continue to do so. How else do you explain Walsh's position on the team over some much better ball players? Just because you have a green and gold jersey on, doesn't necessarily make you a better player. If Tyrone win on Sunday (and it's a big if) then we will hear analysts chat about the system and tactics etc. But if we win on Sunday it will be  because we actually have some very good footballers.

Jaysus, doesn't take much to get you lads going does it? 

Arrogance? Would you come off it. If you wanted to get offended by my post, away with you. I did not say "Kerry just have better players than Tyrone"..or anything like it, because I'm not Mike Sheehy (the poster, not the selector/player) and it's not true. Do you think I'm going to run down the quality of player in a squad containing Morgan, McCarron, Harte, Seán Cavanagh, Donnelly, McAliskey, McCurry etc? No, I am not.

Why are you assuming I know nothing about Ronan McNamee? That wouldn't be "arrogance" or anything would it?!
Quoting some stat from Munster c/ship is fine..but do you really think Kerry were going flat out at that time?

You slate Marc O'Sé, say he wouldn't make your composite team because he's past his best? Fair enough..although it doesn't appear he's slipping too much yet. Is Justy McMahon not possibly in the same boat would you say though?

Finally, Donnacha Walsh is in the Kerry team because he's a very good kick passer, possibly the best endurance runner we have available as a half forward aswell.

If the line that Kerry have better players is being trotted out all week in the media then you are right to be a bit miffed..doesn't make it true though. As for squad strength, well, you can only put 15 men on the field I guess!

Lets not go looking for excuses to get offended or anything now..at least not until Monday. 

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

All very dubious really..Kerry only got 11 scores in final last year due to a very uncharacteristic (for las year) off day in front of the posts..NOT because of a lack of scoring chances or attacks.

Kerry had more possessions, more attacks and more shots than Donegal last year. 33 shots, scoring only 7 from play. I would hope the conversion rate with a similar shot range on Sunday would be far higher.

[BennyHarp]

  I'm not offended at all! Just a discussion on the relative merits of the teams which is obviously subjective. It's clear we won't agree but Sunday will decide. It'll be close!

[supersarsfields]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerrytyrone-combined-xv-we-picked-the-best-side-from-sundays-allireland-semifinalists-31463833.html

Combined team.

(Away to get popcorm)

[BennyHarp]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerrytyrone-combined-xv-we-picked-the-best-side-from-sundays-allireland-semifinalists-31463833.html

Combined team.

(Away to get popcorm)

Sure O'Mahony and Sheehan can't even get on the Kerry team! 

[INDIANA]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

Take your free taking out of it and your scoring rates are poor enough . That's the problem with your system you need everything to go right on the day. Your half forward line plays so deep you rely on penetrating the half back line with runners from deep . That's easy to read for a top 4 team who just won't give you the room to do it

You don't create goal chances either. You've scored maybe one goal in croke park in about 3 years if say

[BennyHarp]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

Take your free taking out of it and your scoring rates are poor enough . That's the problem with your system you need everything to go right on the day. Your half forward line plays so deep you rely on penetrating the half back line with runners from deep . That's easy to read for a top 4 team who just won't give you the room to do it

You don't create goal chances either. You've scored maybe one goal in croke park in about 3 years if say

Ah well that's that then - we're fecked!!

[supersarsfields]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

Take your free taking out of it and your scoring rates are poor enough . That's the problem with your system you need everything to go right on the day. Your half forward line plays so deep you rely on penetrating the half back line with runners from deep . That's easy to read for a top 4 team who just won't give you the room to do it

You don't create goal chances either. You've scored maybe one goal in croke park in about 3 years if say

Why would you take free's out of it? I'd imagine they'll still count on Sunday. Tyrone scored 10 from play against Monaghan. Not a bad return against a defensive team. Goals is an issue. Maybe one of our forwards can have his Mulligan moment that sparks their season. I expect to see goals on Sunday, and I'm hoping Tyrone can provide them. 

[Keane]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerrytyrone-combined-xv-we-picked-the-best-side-from-sundays-allireland-semifinalists-31463833.html

Combined team.

(Away to get popcorm)

That's a poor effort in fairness.

[INDIANA]

Morgan, Harte, Cavanagh and Donnelly and that's it. Don't be fooled by the Kerry defence having a lack of big name players. They are all good defenders in their own right. McMahon of a few years ago would have got in as well but that's only on past reputation rather than current form.

The reality is a system is only as good as the players that are in it . Tyrone have some fine players . They just don't have enough of them.

Kerry to win despite JOD and a few changes to the announced team . If Kerry manage their free concession count they will win. Tyrone don't score goals . 0-14 will be enough for Kerry

The goals will come on Sunday, we have been creating many goal chances in those games,we've just opted for the points. We know we'll need to take goals on Sunday and we will. Kerry will have to notch up a 20+ score to beat us.

The winning of this game will be how difficult we find it to win primary possession from kick outs, it we don't get dominated in this area we will win. There's far more balance to us. I think people forget just how badly Kerry struggled to get scores against a defensive team like Donegal last year when they delivered their flattest performance of the Championship. The two goals owed themselves to huge slices of luck, the first a blocked down shot which found itself drop to Geaney and the second a horrendous unforced error from Durcan. Apart from that they really struggled in an attacking sense.

Take your free taking out of it and your scoring rates are poor enough . That's the problem with your system you need everything to go right on the day. Your half forward line plays so deep you rely on penetrating the half back line with runners from deep . That's easy to read for a top 4 team who just won't give you the room to do it

You don't create goal chances either. You've scored maybe one goal in croke park in about 3 years if say

Why would you take free's out of it? I'd imagine they'll still count on Sunday. Tyrone scored 10 from play against Monaghan. Not a bad return against a defensive team. Goals is an issue. Maybe one of our forwards can have his Mulligan moment that sparks their season. I expect to see goals on Sunday, and I'm hoping Tyrone can provide them.

You've one natural goal scorer on the team in Mc Curry. I don't like your odds. Kerry forwards can all score and from range and they have the cavalry on the bench too. They can use Tommy Walsh to change up the game as well if they want. 0-14 will be enough for Kerry and in my opinion they'll get it too. You don't have a dominant midfield either which means you're relying on breaking ball all day long- which is the lap of the Gods stuff in fairness with so many bodies around midfield.

No matter what way you look at it I can't see a Tyrone win. Fair play to you if you pull it off but I can't see it. There is no compelling reason either based on your system or your match ups on how you can win this game unless Kerry completely implode. Maybe they will. Suits us if they do in Dublin anyway!

[supersarsfields]

But Tyrone aren't as reliant on their forwards to score. Tyrone defence and midfields have scored 2-23 already. The system they play brings more scorers in rather than relying on set forwards. That's what Tyrone's system is. They don't need a prolific forward.

With regards to the break ball, it's certainly not lap of the god stuff. That's 10 year old thinking.

I personally think we have a good chance. Definitely underdogs, but a good chance none the least.