Tyrone V Monaghan AIQF 2015

[smort]

When you consider the rule for this is clearly stated in the official guide under 5.4 which rules the punishment as a yellow card you have to wonder about the type of idiots making these decisions!!!!

I hope in next years rule book that this type of thing is punishable by suspension but currently it isn't.

Will the people who have came up with this suspension be subject to a written or verbal warning when it is rescinded - I know it is standard work practice in the workplace that if an employee does something so badly wrong that this is usually the case!

Also who is Marty Duffy answering to in all of this - he made a monumental error and didn't even take time to consult his other officials!

Well, I would expect he has been done under the 'disrepute' rule, rather than the 'simulation' rule.  Has anyone the wording for that?

Downloaded the official rules from the website (http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/rules-and-regulations/) but cannot find the disrepute rule...

[smort]

When you consider the rule for this is clearly stated in the official guide under 5.4 which rules the punishment as a yellow card you have to wonder about the type of idiots making these decisions!!!!

I hope in next years rule book that this type of thing is punishable by suspension but currently it isn't.

Will the people who have came up with this suspension be subject to a written or verbal warning when it is rescinded - I know it is standard work practice in the workplace that if an employee does something so badly wrong that this is usually the case!

Also who is Marty Duffy answering to in all of this - he made a monumental error and didn't even take time to consult his other officials!

Well, I would expect he has been done under the 'disrepute' rule, rather than the 'simulation' rule.  Has anyone the wording for that?

Downloaded the official rules from the website (http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/rules-and-regulations/) but cannot find the disrepute rule...

Page 128....  Not sure about the one listed

Oh yes, just done a quick CTRL-F for disrepute.

So the rule states

7.2 Infractions
The following shall constitute Infractions to which the
Disciplinary Jurisdiction of the Association applies:
(e) Misconduct Considered to have Discredited the
Association.
This shall include breaches of Rule 1.12 Official Guide
Part 1, and Rules 5.33 (Hurling) and 5.29 (Football)
Aggressive Fouls, Playing Rules, Official Guide Part 2.

Penalties:

Member - A minimum 8 weeks suspension. Debarment
and Expulsion from the Association may also be
considered.

Team/Unit - Where suspension is deemed appropriate
- a minimum of 8 weeks. A Fine, Disqualification
and Expulsion from the Association may also be
considered.

[6th sam]

A few points from a "neutral" perspective.
1. There is a strong pattern here whereby CCCC seem to react to controversial incidents highlighted on RTE, this is unsatisfactory and unfair.
2. You can argue that the lack of any apparent force in the McCann incident distinguishes it from Mahoney and Shields, but in reality there is little difference as they all involve over exaggeration in an attempt to get an opponent sent off.
3. Such incidents , and the likes of mass brawls etc , undoubtedly bring the game into disrepute in so far as they become the talking point and make our games look unsavoury or leave us subject to ridicule.
4. Players are amateurs and though they should be held up to scrutiny , shouldn't be subject to personalised attacks(eg Brolly v Cavanagh).
5. There is Little point in demanding sportsmanship from players and managers, as apart from trying to change culture, such an approach depends on goodwill and discretion and theoretically the most self focussed , ruthless and bullish , will ignore the appeals and gravitate towards the top, whilst the "naive" fair minded and respectful , languish at the bottom. In short, we therefore must legislate to penalise unsporting behaviour as opposed to requesting fair play.
6. Tyrone , notably in their most succesful years (eg accusations of diving from Mcguigan/Jordan in 2003, & the treatment of Colin Cooper in 2005,) have gained a reputation for doing "what it takes" to win, but they are not on their own in this , as all recent winners :Kerry, cork, dublin, donegal , have met similar accusations. The fact is that ruthless cynicism often wins in GAA, and we must continue to develop legislation to minimise this effect.
7. I have vociferously supported Tyrone in crucial matches in the past, and admired many aspects of their play on Sunday, but the last ten minutes particularly,  was an embarrassing spectacle (& Monaghan weren't blameless either) . With several other unsavoury incidents at various levels over the years Tyrone should realise that the full-on win-at-all-costs approach may win you titles but won't win you friends or respect. Tyrone were arguably robbed of all-ireland titles in 1995 & 1996 by dubious decisions and cynical tactics, but similarly benefitted from dubious decisions and cynicism in 2003 and 2005. Ironically it took their sporting and determined response to defeat in Newry in 2008, and their incredible subsequent path to all Ireland glory , for them to gain real admiration and respect. All associated with Tyrone football need to decide do they just want titles , or is the process and manner in which they are won , equally important.

Rant over!

[Bingo]

Do I think that this ban is right and will hold - no.

Should Marty Duffy get the 8 week ban - yes.

Do I have any sympathy with Tyrone - no.

One of the favourite lines in GAA land is about the dishonest, cheating, unmanliness of soccer players as they dive and cheat their way through games/seasons. The fact that this is becoming more and more prevalent in the GAA is often deflected and countered by accusing other teams/players of doing more/first/often. If this is the start of a focus on this behaviour by all teams and a message that such behaviour will have zero tolerance, than maybe we should such it up. Many ex-soccer pros and commentators are calling for this exact type of action. In an ideal world the ref would get these right (Marty Duffy has no excuse for missing it) but its often not possible. So are the GAA going to do this after every match?

And yes, Rory Beggan was at the same carrying on in the game. Michael Shields before him and Aidan O'Mahony before him. No action taken but this has to start somewhere. Is the difference in this instance the fact that the player succeeded in his intentions? Shields didn't, Beggan didn't but McCann got his man as such?

Do you honestly think if Bernard Brogan takes a dive against Mayo that the CCCC will ban him for 8 weeks?

I very much doubt that Bernard Brogan would take a dive along the lines of McCann/Beggan/Shields.

But if he where to, the CCCC will have to act as they have set precedent now.

Silly beggers starting to name and list players/teams who they may have to start banning for something that may or may not happen in the future.

If you'd asked me if Conor McManus had done the same thing in the Tyrone match as McCann did with the same consequences would he be facing a ban, than no, he likely not be facing the CCCC charge.

[magpie seanie]

I wholeheartedly support the proposed suspension. He has discredited the Association and the minimum penalty has been applied.

However, I fully expect this to be overturned due to precedent. When this gets to the DRA Tyrone's legal eagles will have no end of similar incidents to play over and over again where no action was taken by the CCCC. I don't believe that should matter (two wrongs won't make it right) but in a quasi legal forum I think they'll have a good chance of getting the proposed penalty overturned. It can't be reduced as the minimum has been proposed. I hope I'm wrong on this and I hope all incidents of this type are dealt with in the same fashion in future.

If the suspension doesn't stick, the blame lies with those who have been asleep at the wheel and swept these issues under the carpet for too long.

I don't like the way the GAA tends to react to RTE's promptings in disciplinary matters. You could say though that controversies generated by TV "bring discredit on the organisation" so if you're unlucky enough to be picked on by them that you face a suspension. That's not fair or equitable. A new, locked down and agreed code is probably needed. Get Dessis and the Get Paid Association to take a lead in getting their members to behave properly on the pitch.

[AZOffaly]

Seanie, when you say you support the proposed suspension, do you mean that you support suspending divers, or do you support him being treated differently to Michael Shields or Lundy, for example?

[JoG2]

There has to be consistency here.

Either all players and counties are treated the same or they're not.

The only way to do this IMO is have a citing commissioner ala rugby. Having O'Rourke spout on the Sunday game about this on Sunday night and then for those in the CCC to react is pathetic, and the RTE / Tyrone issues thrown in for good measure.

You couldn't make it up.

be careful for what you wish for. McAliskey and Cavanagh would also sitting with 8 weeks suspensions on the eve of a semi-final.

[Applesisapples]

McCann's dive was disgraceful, but only served to bring himself in to disrepute. Marty Duffy as I have previously stated is at fault here for not taking action at the time. The CCCC has set itself up here for a good pasting. Colm O'Rourke is calling the shots. McCann will get off.

[magpie seanie]

Seanie, when you say you support the proposed suspension, do you mean that you support suspending divers, or do you support him being treated differently to Michael Shields or Lundy, for example?

I mean I support suspending people for bringing discredit on the association as in this case. I have never agreed with treating people differently especially in GAA disciplinary matters. In isolation thare can be no argument but that he brought discredit on the GAA with his actions.

I'd like to point out that there is a difference between "diving" and what Tiernan McCann did. He feigned ijnjury in an attempt to con the referee into taking action in the wrong against an opponent. Diving, while despicable, is not quite as bad.

[AZOffaly]

Did you see the video link I posted of O'Mahony, Shields, O'Shea and Lundy. Each of them feigned injury to the face. If McCann deserves 8 weeks, each of them did too. So why did they not get it.

I hate diving, I want lads punished for pretending to be hurt to get lads sent off, but you can't base your disciplinery approach on Twitter or Colm O'Rourke. To do so in the middle of the year, while ignoring similar incidents in the same year, is bordering on blatant unfairness.

Bring a proper rule in next season, and enforce it rigorously by all means. Institute review panels for televised games. All of that, brilliant. No problem with it. I just don't like the way this incident is being handled.

[LeoMc]

Did McCanns actions bring the game into any more disrepute than the Davy Byrne incident and the CCC's subsequent handling of it?

Do Brollys eloquent but vitriolic attacks on the likes of Marty Duffy and Sean Cavanagh not bring the game into disrepute?

[6th sam]

Did McCanns actions bring the game into any more disrepute than the Davy Byrne incident and the CCC's subsequent handling of it?

Do Brollys eloquent but vitriolic attacks on the likes of Marty Duffy and Sean Cavanagh not bring the game into disrepute?

Absolutely

[Bingo]

Whats amazing in all this is that no-one has started a facebook campaign or petition to get McCann off. 

[winghalfun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PUAgnrJR_4

I remember watching this when it first came out.

Interesting to note that not one of the highlighted (bad) incidents features Tyrone yet the rules were shoehorned in reaction to RTE and a Sean Cavanagh tackle.

(First 10 to 15 minutes only)

Circle the wagons lads because another attack is on the way.

[oakleafgael]

Whats amazing in all this is that no-one has started a facebook campaign or petition to get McCann off.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-Tiernan-McCann/964948586880172?fref=ts