New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[T Fearon]

So if he delayed for years then by your logic he is equally as guilty of Brady in not stopping Smyth's litany of terror

[muppet]

So if he delayed for years then by your logic he is equally as guilty of Brady in not stopping Smyth's litany of terror

No tony. Brady was in charge. He was the investigator. He had the evidence. He had names of other vulnerable children. Boland's Dad wasn't let into the room. Brady promised Boland's Dad that Smyth would hurt no more children. Boland's Dad believed him. This may shock you but there are people in Ireland who listened to and trusted the church. There are people in Ireland who held people like Sean Brady in high esteem. You mightn't know any of them but I can assure you they existed.

There is no comparison between the role of Brady and Boland's Dad and it is world class hypocrisy to defend Brady's role, while blaming a victims father. In fact it it way beyond hypocrisy, it is pure evil.

[T Fearon]

I said mistakes were made by everyone,and the parents must take their share of the blame.

Brady was an anonymous junior priest in the mid 70s.He has been blamed for not doing enough to stop Smyth,if Mr Boland's father knew,he had the exact same knowledge as Brady at the same time,and therefore in retrospect the exact same responsibility to follow up and ensure Smyth was stopped.

[muppet]

I said mistakes were made by everyone,and the parents must take their share of the blame.

Brady was an anonymous junior priest in the mid 70s.He has been blamed for not doing enough to stop Smyth,if Mr Boland's father knew,he had the exact same knowledge as Brady at the same time,and therefore in retrospect the exact same responsibility to follow up and ensure Smyth was stopped.

Brady was Secretary to the Bishop.
He was the investigator of Smyth's abuse allegation.
He interviewed two boys regarding Smyth's abuse.
He swore both boys to secrecy.
He promised Boland's father Smyth would abuse no one else.
He never told the parents of the other boy.
He never told the parent of the other children named as possible victims by Boland. Smyth continued to abuse these children and some of their relatives.

Then....

Cahal Daly resigned because of his poor handling of an issue regarding the hideous Smyth. The 26 counties Government also collapsed at the same time because of their mishandling the Smyth case. Smyth was beyond toxic at that stage.
Our hero Brady then replaced Daly. Incredibly he didsn't reveal his own past with Smyth. It must have been obvious to him how this would play out some day in the future, but as he has never discussed this publicly, who knows what the hell he was thinking.

The Boland's saw a news article regarding Smyth and realised that he abused many more children and that the promise made to Boland's father was never honoured. The Boland's then went to the Gárdaí.

Boland sought all records of his investigation under data protection laws. The Church, now led by Sean Brady, frustrated this legal entitlement for over a decade. They have never explained why. This is a supposed to be a church, preaching a message of Jesus' love. Who are they kidding?

When Boland finally got his documents it proved that Sean Brady was involved. It also recorded questions that were asked of the 14 year old sex abuse victim during the investigation. He was asked if he had 'produced seed' while he was being abused. They asked if he had confessed this during confessions.


Now to Boland's Dad.

The first he knew was when his son told him in the company of a fine example of a local priest, who Boland had told first. The Dad ran out of the house and vomited in his garden.

Trusting the good priest mentioned (who has since quit the priesthood - I don't blame him) he brought the son to meet two others who were to investigate. He was told to wait outside and again he trusted the priests. Afterwards Sean Brady told him Smyth would abuse no more.

The Boland's thought that was the end of it until a news story appeared regarding Smyth and more abused children. The Dad then went to the Gárdaí.

..................

Your logic is that of a football hooligan, i.e. he is on our side so he must be all right and everyone else is to blame. Brady's logic is even worse. The Nuremberg defence is absolutely shocking for a man of his position. But he has never explained why he never told us of his involvement for so long. He has never explained why he broke the law issuing an illegal oath. He has never told us why he didn't inform the other families that their children were at risk. He has never told us how he could take Cahal Daly's job, given the former had resigned for mishandling an issue that wouldn't have even happened if he himself hadn't mishandled the same issue years before. He has never explained why the church, of which he was head, refused to release the records of Boland's investigation. Everything that Brady did since Cahal Daly resigned, has the stench of prioritising Brady first.

How anyone can compare all of what Brady did, with the victim's father, is as I said, a level of pure evil that I cannot get my head around.

[Lar Naparka]

Stop with the silly questions, Orior and I know you didn't start it, but can we also stop bringing up child abuse in a discussion about homophobia?

You don't need me or anyone else to inform your conscience. The last time you posted that story here you described it as "rumours" about a priest who was "asking boys about what they do with their girlfriends" and "wandering through the dormitories at night". Do you really see an equivalence between that and Brady's facilitation of child rape?

Even if you do (and you don't, I hope) you know the answer to your rhetorical questions. They're facile. You were a child. You had no responsibility then. If you think there's a possibility that this is still going on now, you know your responsibilities.

Fair enough, and my complements on your memory.

I still believe that the hounding of Sean Brady is harsh and in the absence of anyone else he has become a scapegoat. The real culprit is the guy who ordered Brady to deal with Smyth and silence his victims.

You seem to be a genuine individual Orior and I believe that you genuinely feel that Sean Brady was hard done. Is it fair to say that you t feel he has been singled out unfairly while others, who found themselves in a similar situation, don't attract the vilification he does.
Fair enough, I think you deserve my reasons since I was the one who brought the subject up on this thread.
It could be said with great justification that Desmond Connell, former Archbishop of Dublin was at least as bad if not worse. Do you recall that Connell's successor, Diarmuid Martin, took the extraordinary step of threatening to take him to (civil) court if he didn't hand over to the gardai files they had asked for to help in their investigations.
When you count the number of paedophile priests that Connell facilitated by blatantly ignoring their activities and provided €30,000 of diocesan funds to settle a case against Ivan Payne before it was brought to court.
Really hard to understand why John B Brady, who only covered up for one evl bastard, should get so much more attention that the other bollix, isn't it?
Shouldn't be.
Brady was by then Cardinal Sean, the primate of All Ireland, when the media arrived at his front door. That, if Wikipedia is to be believed, happened in 2010.
Yet, (with due acknowledgements to the indefatigable muppet,) Brady came out with this howler in 2009;
"If I found myself in a situation where I was aware that my failure to act had allowed or meant that other children were abused, well then, I think I would resign."
Did he resign when he was outed? Did he hell!
First, he tried to deflect blame for the cover-up by saying he was only a "mere notary." In simple English, he was, by implication, pinning the blame one or other who made up the ungodly trio sent to silence Brendan Boland and allow Smyth  carry on as before.
Now, given his position of influence in the Irish Catholic Church, the boyo who was supposed to guide his flock by precept and example, turned out to be a paedophile facilitator, who tried to blame someone else for his illegal and immoral actions. Furthermore, he refused to acknowledge that he had caused many innocent children to be violated by a clearly deranged individual and he wasn't prepared to apologise for his inactivity. 
Do you still think Sean Brady was the man to lead the Catholic Church anywhere, except maybe over the Cliffs of Moher?

[ONeill]

I would not let a room to an unmarried hetrosexual couple either

Ah now Anthony. You're telling me that in those decades of courtship with the boul Fifi, before wedlock, and having travelled the world with her....you always slept in different rooms..........?

[armaghniac]

How anyone can compare all of what Brady did, with the victim's father, is as I said, a level of pure evil that I cannot get my head around.

This statement represents a devaluation of language. Both the father and Brady believed that something would be done and were assured by people that something would be done. It is easy to say in 2015 that you would not believe that anything would happen, but that is with the benefit of hindsight.

As for the comparison with Daly. It was appropriate for Daly to resign as he had authority to deal with things and didn't. Brady had been peripherally involved but had no authority to act directly on the problem. The one solid point that you do make is that Brady was in charge when the data release was stonewalled, so it cannot be said that he had come into the job with the intention to sort things out.

[muppet]

How anyone can compare all of what Brady did, with the victim's father, is as I said, a level of pure evil that I cannot get my head around.

This statement represents a devaluation of language. Both the father and Brady believed that something would be done and were assured by people that something would be done. It is easy to say in 2015 that you would not believe that anything would happen, but that is with the benefit of hindsight.

As for the comparison with Daly. It was appropriate for Daly to resign as he had authority to deal with things and didn't. Brady had been peripherally involved but had no authority to act directly on the problem. The one solid point that you do make is that Brady was in charge when the data release was stonewalled, so it cannot be said that he had come into the job with the intention to sort things out.

We know that is the case for Boland's father.

But what proof do we have that is was the case for Brady?

I absolutely reject that Brady was 'peripherally involved'. This was no skivvy. He was a Canon Lawyer and was Secretary to the Bishop. Some people like to portray that type 'secretary' as a mere typist or someone who posts the letters. It is inconceivable that he didn't know what was going on within the diocese.

Finally you never addressed why Brady never revealed any part of his involvement until he was forced to. The reason we are judging it in today's context is because it was concealed for so long. We only found out in 2010. He might have been judged better 20 years ago, but whose fault is that?

[T Fearon]

Has Brady not admitted his mistakes of forty years ago and begged for forgiveness

[muppet]

Has Brady not admitted his mistakes of forty years ago and begged for forgiveness

Big f*cking deal!

He only lamely and unconvincingly apologised when he had absolutely no choice. The apology wasn't accepted either and he never resigned his position. Even the most awful politician would have walked with something like that on his hands. Brady hid everything he could for those 40 years. That man is a moral disgrace and a coward.

The 14 year old boy who made the complaint had more courage than a thousand Sean Bradys.

Tony's lame argument about preventing sin regarding homosexuality, rings desperately hollow in the face of his beloved church leader who failed to prevent a particular evil sin and went along with a line of action designed to protect the church, rather than the children.

[Oraisteach]

Tony, you've been so badly pinned by Muppet there's a Wile-E-Coyote cut-out of you on the gym floor.  I bet he's managed to sway some fence-sitters, but your persistence in defending something(s) more heinous than a 'mistake' makes you seem like a spin doctor, a stance that far from allaying anti-clerical sentiment may well be intensifying it.  I've never met Cardinal Brady, am told that he's delightful, but Muppet's well-martialed evidence juxtaposed against your straw-grasping casts him and the church in a very dim light.  Sincere humility and more convincing contrition might help, but that's as likely as a gay pride headquarters being established in a Poyntzpass B & B.

[T Fearon]

Rubbish.I judge people in the round,and what their contribution over a lifetime is,not a mistake they made 40 years ago.Brady if he is to blame,is no more or less so than the victims parents who at the time had exactly the same knowledge as Brady but like him,failed to stop Brendan Smyth.

Then again,it was always going to take more than a 30 something priest and/or one set of parents to stop Brendan Smyth.A litany of people were aware of his crimes,in different countries,for decades,and most of them a lot more senior to and wielding a lot more influence than Fr Brady in the mid 70s.

To blame Sean Brady for the abomination that was Brendan Smyth is ludicrous,cowardly and facist.In reality anti Catholics love nothing more than a mere whiff of scandal involving the most Senior cleric in the Land (even if it was 40 years ago) to spread their hate filled propaganda,to confirm their gratuitous delusions.

Interestingly Muppet presumes to know everything about the Bolands (on the flimsy basis that they wrote it in a book therefore it must be true) and their " honourable" motivations at every turn,but admits to knowing nothing about Brady's motivations but assumes the worst of him at all times.

[Hardy]

Brady if he is to blame,is no more or less so than the victims parents who at the time had exactly the same knowledge as Brady but like him,failed to stop Brendan Smyth.

This is truly loathsome and disgusting. Is there no depth you will hesitate to sink to?

[Hardy]

Excellent work above, muppet in documenting the truth of the Brady scandal.

[Keyser soze]

So there were two rooms booked in City West on the wrong weekend