All Ireland u21 football championship 2015

[illdecide]

I see from todays Irish News that Brendan Crossan must have been reading my post . Up the Nordies

[nrico2006]

I see from todays Irish News that Brendan Crossan must have been reading my post . Up the Nordies

Post her up

[AZOffaly]

I don't really have an issue with anything Tyrone did in that game in terms of fouling or timewasting near the end. I'd expect any team to do that in the same circumstances. It's probably not right, strictly speaking, but there are rules there to punish fouling, and the ref can add time at his discretion as well, so I think that's fair enough.

The one thing I do have a slight problem with, and I'm wondering what the Tyrone lads thoughts on this are? I know a couple of Tyrone lads away from this board who are a bit embarassed about the 'sledging'. Lets be honest it goes beyond the stuff that is always said to try and put you off.  I don't think Tyrone need to do it, and I'm sure they are not the only ones and it's not a completely new phenomenon as Liam Hayes will tell you, but they seem to have made an art form out of it. Even Ricey McMenamin agreed some of the stuff he used to say and do went beyond the pale.

I hesitate to bring it up because I don't want to be lumped in as 'having a go at Tyrone'. I admire Tyrone and everything they've managed to achieve. I think they have become extremely streetwise over the last 10-15 years and they are a model for other counties to follow, from their underage set up all the way to establishing yourself at senior level.

So this is a genuine question. And this is for the Tyrone lads not the Tyrone haters!! Do ye think Tyrone engage in close to the bone verbal sledging? If so, do ye think this is ok, or no big deal? And if not, what would you consider to be too close to the bone to say on a field?

[sensethetone]

I don't really have an issue with anything Tyrone did in that game in terms of fouling or timewasting near the end. I'd expect any team to do that in the same circumstances. It's probably not right, strictly speaking, but there are rules there to punish fouling, and the ref can add time at his discretion as well, so I think that's fair enough.

The one thing I do have a slight problem with, and I'm wondering what the Tyrone lads thoughts on this are? I know a couple of Tyrone lads away from this board who are a bit embarassed about the 'sledging'. Lets be honest it goes beyond the stuff that is always said to try and put you off.  I don't think Tyrone need to do it, and I'm sure they are not the only ones and it's not a completely new phenomenon as Liam Hayes will tell you, but they seem to have made an art form out of it. Even Ricey McMenamin agreed some of the stuff he used to say and do went beyond the pale.

I hesitate to bring it up because I don't want to be lumped in as 'having a go at Tyrone'. I admire Tyrone and everything they've managed to achieve. I think they have become extremely streetwise over the last 10-15 years and they are a model for other counties to follow, from their underage set up all the way to establishing yourself at senior level.

So this is a genuine question. And this is for the Tyrone lads not the Tyrone haters!! Do ye think Tyrone engage in close to the bone verbal sledging? If so, do ye think this is ok, or no big deal? And if not, what would you consider to be too close to the bone to say on a field?

What "sledging" was said?

[AZOffaly]

I'm not talking about Saturday specifically. I'm asking a question in general.

[Syferus]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

[Tubberman]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

I doubt that's what you really think. I think you think it's more about Roscommon losing to an All-Ireland semi-final to a team they perceived to be inferior, and thereby losing a golden opportunity for All-Ireland success.

[sligoman]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

Player safety?

Francie Grehan, Seamus O'Neill?

[Syferus]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

I doubt that's what you really think. I think you think it's more about Roscommon losing to an All-Ireland semi-final to a team they perceived to be inferior, and thereby losing a golden opportunity for All-Ireland success.

Tyrone would have beaten us without any of that. They were clearly the better team which makes it sadder that they lowered themselves to that level. I was disappointed we lost but I certainly wasn't angry or felt we were robbed.

U21 is usually a grade you come out of cooing about good football and honestly what Tyrone did - mostly off the ball - means that discussion around the grade is now about cynicism and player safety. That's a tad depressing.

I care about the grade and underage as a whole and I'd hate for the willingness to just play ball that a lot of teams display to be replaced by what we saw from Tyrone. In the end everyone will lose if that happens.

[sligoman]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

I doubt that's what you really think. I think you think it's more about Roscommon losing to an All-Ireland semi-final to a team they perceived to be inferior, and thereby losing a golden opportunity for All-Ireland success.

Tyrone would have beaten us without any of that. They were clearly the better team which makes it sadder that they lowered themselves to that level.

U21 is usually a grade you come out of cooing about good football and honestly what Tyrone did - mostly off the ball - means that discussion around the grade is now about cynism and player safety. That's a tad depressing.

I care about the grade and underage as a whole and I'd hate for the willingness to just play ball that a lot of teams display to be replaced by what we saw from Tyrone. In the end everyone will lose if that happens.

I take it you must have boycotted Roscommon senior games when they had Grehan,  O'Neill, Dolan and Curran in their ranks such is your high moral standards on ethical behaviour on the football field.

[nrico2006]

This 'sledging' crying is becoming laughable.  In all my years of playing sport I have been called everything under the sun.  Has it ever bothered me?  No.  Why would it?  Some root slabbering at you constantly is like water of a ducks back.  If it gets the better of you then you need to take a look at yourself and how strong you are mentally.  It is not a new phenomenon but the buzz word 'sledging' is something that until recently I had only heard with yappy cricket players.  There seems to be more complaining about Johnny calling Joey bad names than there does about dirty physical challenges.  Every team that plays football or hurling have boys who will slabber to the opposition, with it either being a constant happening to wind them up or put them off or something someone does to a player after scoring.  Is it that big of a deal seriously?  Were the Tipperary players that bothered by it?  Were they completely silent?  Going by this thread it would seem that they were like mice and that they are subsequently receiving counselling for post-traumatic stress. 

As for Tyrone's conduct in general in the semi-final and final, I would have no issue with it.  Were they overly physical or dirty?  No.  I have never seen as sore a loser on this board as Syferus, for weeks now complaining away about the disgusting behaviour of Tyrone in the All Ireland semi-final.  I must have been watching a different match because Tyrone played a blinder that day from start to finish, they were on top in defence and in attack and if the rest of the matches this summer were played like that game there would be very little controversy and happy fans.  I would love to ask any of the posters on this board who haven't watched the Roscommon and Tyrone game to go and watch it if you have a spare hour, and come back and state whether or not you think there was anything wrong with the way that game panned out.  I just think that its a case of sour grapes from Syferus as for some reason he was expecting Roscommon to progress to the All Ireland final at Tyrone's expense.  If a man had any sense then there would be no way I would have been expecting Roscommon to easily account for Tyrone at under-age level (or senior for that matter).  Not many Tyrone fans expected anything but a win that day, it actually surprises me at how many Roscommon people seemed to think that they would win.

[sligoman]

Have to say. We all love the under dog! When Meath beat Louth in the 2010 Leinster final we all felt for them. If the shoe was on the other foot. We'd have said wasn't it a good one Louth winning that way. Same rules would have applied if Tipperary had done a Tyrone to Tyrone. We'd all say they did the right thing to close out the game. But it's different when the so called traditional county achieves their goals by adverse means.

In fairness Bunker you're warping the issue most have. Lots of teams close out games by trying to shut up shop but lots of teams don't knee players in head, elbow them in the face or throw them at goal-posts. Tipp were guilty of a stamp in the final but Tyrone's rap sheet this year extends far beyond that and anyone who's trying to isolate the final without the context of the whole campaign is missing the bigger picture. I think this topic is more about player safety than it is about tactics.

Kerry instigated two brawls in injury time In their games against Donegal and Mayo. Did your faux outrage extend to them last year or is it only against teams who knock ye out?

You must be incredibly young, blinkered or delusional to keep this conversation going when you hail from Roscommon. The team ye had about 10 years ago was backboned by thugs, cheats and loudmouths. The last time we played you in a championship game was 2010, where your player consistently went to ground and exaggerated contact when they got the ball in scoring areas.  This had to be a tactic as you lacked the quality from open play to break us down. You were equally as cynical with our attack, McDermott had a hold of Kelly all day long. Sligo took that defeat on the chin, we accepted that Roscommon had been that bit cuter and we went in a bit cocky and naive to the way ye would play.

But hearing you bemoan another team who beat you fair and square for the way they played is sickening. You were comprehesively beaten fair  and square, move on. Maybe you should hand back the 2010 Nestor Cup if you feel so strongly about fair play.

You are happy to criticise other teams and their actions but you don't want to acknowledge your own county's shame. It's not so long ago you had one of the dirtiest and sneakiest teams in the land.

And all the Connacht lads here will know about the antics of Dolan, Grehan,  O, Neill, Curran and Co.

[Zulu]

This 'sledging' crying is becoming laughable.  In all my years of playing sport I have been called everything under the sun.  Has it ever bothered me?  No.  Why would it?  Some root slabbering at you constantly is like water of a ducks back.  If it gets the better of you then you need to take a look at yourself and how strong you are mentally.  It is not a new phenomenon but the buzz word 'sledging' is something that until recently I had only heard with yappy cricket players.  There seems to be more complaining about Johnny calling Joey bad names than there does about dirty physical challenges.  Every team that plays football or hurling have boys who will slabber to the opposition, with it either being a constant happening to wind them up or put them off or something someone does to a player after scoring.  Is it that big of a deal seriously?  Were the Tipperary players that bothered by it?  Were they completely silent?  Going by this thread it would seem that they were like mice and that they are subsequently receiving counselling for post-traumatic stress. 

I haven't seen the game so don't have a view on what went on, if anything did, but this opinion, if shared by any other sane person in the GAA is worrying. Of course things are said during games especially in heated games, I've said things myself and certainly been called a few things by others. However, why should we accept players going out from minute one to minute sixty saying things to another player that would have them hospitalised if he said the same in a pub? This is especially repugnant when these cowards yammer away and if the guy reacts and pushes them or makes any minor contact they fling themselves to the ground as if shot. How any GAA man can shrug his shoulders at this ignorant, cowardly, unsportsmanlike behaviour is mind boggling. This behaviour is becoming too common and when you have people defending it then it will only become the norm. I've played football for over 30 years and I never had anyone in my ear from start to finish and wouldn't even cross my mind to do it to someone else. There's a world of difference from telling a forward who just missed an easy score that 'they'll be taking you off soon' and getting into a guys ear about his sister, mother, sexuality, disability etc. for the simple reason of putting him off his game or getting a reaction. If some people can't see the difference they should stay away from the GAA.

[AZOffaly]

I've been called useless, a culchie ****, a smelly f**ker and various other terms of endearment. That's not today or yesterday. I've never had anyone in my ear talking about my girlfriend/wife, mother, brother or sister. And I'm not sure what I'd do if I had.

I'm just wondering what is deemed acceptable at this stage, and is everyone who finds that over the top just a 'whinger'?

[Keyser soze]

This 'sledging' crying is becoming laughable.  In all my years of playing sport I have been called everything under the sun.  Has it ever bothered me?  No.  Why would it?  Some root slabbering at you constantly is like water of a ducks back.  If it gets the better of you then you need to take a look at yourself and how strong you are mentally.  It is not a new phenomenon but the buzz word 'sledging' is something that until recently I had only heard with yappy cricket players.  There seems to be more complaining about Johnny calling Joey bad names than there does about dirty physical challenges.  Every team that plays football or hurling have boys who will slabber to the opposition, with it either being a constant happening to wind them up or put them off or something someone does to a player after scoring.  Is it that big of a deal seriously?  Were the Tipperary players that bothered by it?  Were they completely silent?  Going by this thread it would seem that they were like mice and that they are subsequently receiving counselling for post-traumatic stress. 

I haven't seen the game so don't have a view on what went on, if anything did, but this opinion, if shared by any other sane person in the GAA is worrying. Of course things are said during games especially in heated games, I've said things myself and certainly been called a few things by others. However, why should we accept players going out from minute one to minute sixty saying things to another player that would have them hospitalised if he said the same in a pub? This is especially repugnant when these cowards yammer away and if the guy reacts and pushes them or makes any minor contact they fling themselves to the ground as if shot. How any GAA man can shrug his shoulders at this ignorant, cowardly, unsportsmanlike behaviour is mind boggling. This behaviour is becoming too common and when you have people defending it then it will only become the norm. I've played football for over 30 years and I never had anyone in my ear from start to finish and wouldn't even cross my mind to do it to someone else. There's a world of difference from telling a forward who just missed an easy score that 'they'll be taking you off soon' and getting into a guys ear about his sister, mother, sexuality, disability etc. for the simple reason of putting him off his game or getting a reaction. If some people can't see the difference they should stay away from the GAA.

I agree with this, it's a big problem in the game. but very hard to combat. It isnt  though the sole preserve of Tyrone or even northern teams and Gaa supporters and commentators saying it is and 'partitioning' our games is equally distasteful imo.