Down Club Hurling & Football

[charlieTully]

It's a good job ur here r we would never get by..........

pontificate to your hearts content lad but f**k sake get the mans name right,

[PAULD123]

I thought the key area was down our LHS  defence. McKernan and Carr covering allowed the Armagh attack to overlap time and again. They allowed them to get to the 21 and shoot. It was a night where everything went right from Armagh and they hot shots from there that will only happen a  few times a season but they shouldn't have been given the opportunity to be that fortunate. I genuinely think it was the undoing of us.

Apart from that a reluctance to take simple point scoring opportunities has been haunting us since Ross Carr took over. Why can't players just accept their scores instead of always trying to play someone in to a better position. Laverty is particularly guilty of this. He could have easily fisted the ball over the bar on two first half occasions and would have increased our lead. Even for the goal opportunity, McCartan was being closed down fast. A sensible tap over the bar would always have been the better option. The aim should always be to build a lead based on every point scoring opportunity. Especially when you are recycling so much midfield possession. If you can get a 7-8 point lead then looking for goals is done in a comfort zone and can provide the nail in the coffin. But when its tight, a great save is as big a psychological boost to the defending team as the goal would have been to the attacking team.

Sorry but I am a great believer in the old adage - "Take your points and the goals will come". In watching football for about 30 years I have never really seen any better strategy than this.

[dundrumite]

I thought the key area was down our LHS  defence. McKernan and Carr covering allowed the Armagh attack to overlap time and again. They allowed them to get to the 21 and shoot. It was a night where everything went right from Armagh and they hot shots from there that will only happen a  few times a season but they shouldn't have been given the opportunity to be that fortunate. I genuinely think it was the undoing of us.

Apart from that a reluctance to take simple point scoring opportunities has been haunting us since Ross Carr took over. Why can't players just accept their scores instead of always trying to play someone in to a better position. Laverty is particularly guilty of this. He could have easily fisted the ball over the bar on two first half occasions and would have increased our lead. Even for the goal opportunity, McCartan was being closed down fast. A sensible tap over the bar would always have been the better option. The aim should always be to build a lead based on every point scoring opportunity. Especially when you are recycling so much midfield possession. If you can get a 7-8 point lead then looking for goals is done in a comfort zone and can provide the nail in the coffin. But when its tight, a great save is as big a psychological boost to the defending team as the goal would have been to the attacking team.

Sorry but I am a great believer in the old adage - "Take your points and the goals will come". In watching football for about 30 years I have never really seen any better strategy than this.
[/quote

It was a 2 on 1, entitled to go for a goal.

[The Real Gael]

Finally would I be right in saying that the much maligned POR outsmarted and outwitted James and co last night.  The armagh forwards seemed to get an awful lot more space than the down forwards!!!

Totally agree here whitegoodman and I think credit where credit is due, both Paddy O Rourke and Sean O Hare deserve a lot of credit and its obvious their knowledge of Down players from their previous stint in charge of our seniors and U21s has helped here.

Looking at the tables though, a win against Laois and its top 4 for us.

[snoopdog]

Was disappointed also on leaving Armagh on Sat night. I know any Armagh team arent gonna let Down go there and dictate the Game but regardless of the scoring of Armagh be it silly frees or not, Down had the winning of this game and i agree with what is said above, our forwards look for perfect scores instead of  taking the oppurtunitites when they open up.
McCommiskey is needed back and Murtagh would be a big plaus if he came back in. I think we should beat Laois in Portlaois, they arent great, Down should be able to beat them  and we will prob play Kerry in a semi final.
top 4 would be a great achievement considering we were bottom just over 2 weeks ago.
Has Division 1 ever been so open.

[NP 76]

WGM just on your point on the scorers Cnor Laverty has scored 2 pts from full forward in 6 games does alot of work but needs to be scoring more imo . He should of tapped that ball over the bar instead of flicking the ball to Eoin it would keep the score board ticking over . By the time it came to Eoin the keeper was already on his way out and left the angle very tight . In all our games to date our starting full forward line has contributed 1 goal and 6 points thats not enough for a potent forward line is it ? Our half forward have scored 18 points from play and our half back line has chipped in with 1 goal 7 pts . We have a good spread of scorers but not enough from the men closest to the goals . I still maintain the weak link to the defence is Mc Kernan . I said this last year about him retreating back and marking space . All this does is invite the opposition on to us this didnt happen against the Dubs where everyone of our players picked up a man and followed him everywhere thus not letting the quick kickout why change it when it worked so effectively? . Mc Kernan cant mark and cant play the sweeper role Daniel Mc Cartan must of had a sore throat shouting at him on Sat night because he really wasnt helping the backs at all . All Armaghs scores came from the rhs of the field they knew to attack it because they knew Mc Kernan wouldnt be there and also if they were fouled Stevenson would tap them over . Our defence comes in for some un due critism at times surely we cant afford to carry a passenger in there . I know Kevin has a great turn of speed and many great attributes but you need a man that is going to defend first and foremost and i honestly think Benny Mc Ardle would be a better option here . Alot of people are saying that this was Armaghs 2nd team but i dont buy into this as i can remember all the talk before the champiuoship last year of how many of them had won minor and u 21 medals . This was Armaghs big do or die game the same as we had one the week before against Dublin . The luck was with them on the night and not us so we have to lift it again for Laois . I didnt think it really was the place to throw in young O Reily to make his debut would rather of saw an experienced man like Murtagh with the ball in his hand at that late stage but not O Reilys fault as there was chances missed before that . Why not throw big Kalum in to the edge of the square for the last ten mins and give Donaghy something big to handle but its gone now so need to start thinking of the next day

[whitegoodman]

Agree with alot of what has been said this morning.

Im not sure if McKernan is being told whether to drop back or he is doing it of his own accord but if he is doing it himself he should be told to mark his man or join us on the line.  Rooney, O Hagen, Turley's or Benny McArdle would be better options "defensively" there.  I also wouldnt rule out playing McKernan further forward, maybe in Maginns role.  There is more of a scoring threat and as good at winninig break ball.

Interesting stats on LAVERTY.  He does indeed work hard and create scores but if we are to reach Q/F's and beyond we would need more potency from here especially if Benny isnt able to contribute as many scores as he once did.  1 6 in 6 games just isnt enough from ur inside line. Its used to be with Murtagh, Clarke, Benny, Laverty and McCumiskey we had plenty of options in the FF line and the half forward line was the weak link but that has now turned.  With the lack of options available throwing Kalum into FF may have been a decent option on saturday night as NP says.

[PAULD123]

....Im not sure if McKernan is being told whether to drop back or he is doing it of his own accord but if he is doing it himself he should be told to mark his man or join us on the line.  Rooney, O Hagen, Turley's or Benny McArdle would be better options "defensively" there.  I also wouldnt rule out playing McKernan further forward, maybe in Maginns role.  There is more of a scoring threat and as good at winninig break ball...

Was just thinking that myself. I find it hard to justify leaving such a fit, powerful player as McKernan out. But if he won't mark then he can't justify playing in defence. Perhaps if we commit him to a forwards role it will be more effective. certainly he would bring strength to that zone and could act as an auxiliary midfielder. But the same question remains. Would he work as hard as Maginn? Maginn does a lot of tracking back and covering.

WGM comments all along about McKernan not being suited to wing back definitely seem to be coming true.

[goldenyears]

WGM, great synopsis, spot on with so many of those opinions. Most disappointing thing for me was we had it won once or twice and couldnt seal the deal. Great credit to Armagh, they will be over the moon with their win. Those are real bad games to lose - most of you will know what I mean. I definitely think we need a scoring threat from every single forward - the old mantra used to be every forward should kick 2 scores in the game, giving you 12 scores which is hard to beat 80% of the time all the time 

[dundrumite]

Maybe a strange question but do any of you remember a 7s game between the mcgoverns of burren and Cunningham of bryansford in a 7s game? Got me thinking of families that would be particularly strong. The johnstons  would include Ben and Jamie o'reilly, the branagans of kilcoo and Ryan and jerome Johnston. Can anybody think of any other such families around the county with an array of talent?

[DownFanatic]

Maybe a strange question but do any of you remember a 7s game between the mcgoverns of burren and Cunningham of bryansford in a 7s game? Got me thinking of families that would be particularly strong. The johnstons  would include Ben and Jamie o'reilly, the branagans of kilcoo and Ryan and jerome Johnston. Can anybody think of any other such families around the county with an array of talent?

The Corr's of County Louth are a very talented family. Andrea is very handy with the tin whistle, Sharon is a dab hand with the violin, Caroline can work a bodhrán rightly while Jim knows his way about a keyboard.

Wouldn't be too sure how'd they perform on a football pitch though.

[dundrumite]

Maybe a strange question but do any of you remember a 7s game between the mcgoverns of burren and Cunningham of bryansford in a 7s game? Got me thinking of families that would be particularly strong. The johnstons  would include Ben and Jamie o'reilly, the branagans of kilcoo and Ryan and jerome Johnston. Can anybody think of any other such families around the county with an array of talent?

The Corr's of County Louth are a very talented family. Andrea is very handy with the tin whistle, Sharon is a dab hand with the violin, Caroline can work a bodhrán rightly while Jim knows his way about a keyboard.

Wouldn't be too sure how'd they perform on a football pitch though.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4206.0

You might want to take that to this thread

[here comes 6]

McCartans of tullylish could give his a fair crack.  Im sure someone would sponsor a mobile home around Laurencetown for a few days

[5 Sams]

Maybe a strange question but do any of you remember a 7s game between the mcgoverns of burren and Cunningham of bryansford in a 7s game? Got me thinking of families that would be particularly strong. The johnstons  would include Ben and Jamie o'reilly, the branagans of kilcoo and Ryan and jerome Johnston. Can anybody think of any other such families around the county with an array of talent?

McCartans, Kanes and Blaneys are all connected...doubt if there was a hypothetical 7s competition anyone would beat that combination...McGoverns would give it a brave rattle though!!!

[Mid Down Gael]

After an amazing result against the dubs last week where the boys where brilliant I couldn't believe we couldn't beat an Armagh seconds team.Our defence continues to foul far too easily and in the end this was a major factor in the defeat as Armagh got 1-8 from placed balls.
Our management team deserve credit for getting the wins in mayo and against the all Ireland champs but paddy ORourke continues to outfox them against the orchard in meaningful games.
The personnel used as subs apart from Benny, who should be starting IMO every game, reeked of pure favouritism.
Our best players on sat included ambrose, Carr, Hughes, Poland and laverty, all form players in this league campaign. Laverty played very smartly and done what he does best, terrorise defences and be a playmaker. I agree he should take his own scores at times but he is an unselfish player. I would like to see him score more but he has the cuteness to create openings and that has to be recognised.
Laois will not be easy as they need the win, so we are not out of the woods yet.
Saturday was the place to set down a marker against the orchard and we failed to get anything out of the game which was disappointing especially after such a morale boosting victory in Newry against the Dubs.