R2 Qualifier Tyrone v Armagh

[Redhand Santa]

Redhand Santa, I wouldn't be too annoyed if Tyrone are beat on Sunday. A defeat on Sunday would sharpen minds. Its time for a change. We've been too stale & predictable for a long time - both in terms of squad selection, playing style, tactics...
Think of the optimism and fresh impetus to be garnered over the winter months by a first change of management in 12 years! Followed by a new squad brimming with fresh faces. Old favourites of Hartes binned (I would name name, but don't wanna be negative) & replaced by fresh talent. Im thinking on the likes of Richie Donnelly, Dan McNulty, Harry Og Conlan, Frank Burns, Tommy Canavan, Dean McNally etc I could go on

Someone like Malachy O'Rourke would be ideal. Give him the league months to get us organised defensively & we'd be back dining at the top table in no time. Because at the minute we're a long way from that.

Up Ard Mhacha Tir Eoghain!

I only have ever been M Harte's company once and he is a nice man who is intelligent and lives and breathes Tyrone and GAA, he has won Ulster titles and 3 All Ireland's and some supporters want him chased...that's unbelievable tbh and as an Armagh man I find it ridiculous. You are starting to suffer slightly as your teams are not as strong as they have been in the past and too many successful years can blind you from the transition that you are going through and I have to say you are still quite lucky as the players you have are still making you a top 7 or 8 team in the country whereas we totally lost the plot for a few years and are only starting to make a bit of headway this year, I've no doubt in 2 years we will be back challenging for Ulster titles and still getting a game in August.

Remember you'll not know what you had until its gone and then there'll be a crying session looking Micky back...

P.S. if you chase him Armagh should grab him with both hands and he could join our management team for the start of the revolution ;-)

Would agree exactly with this. I suspect no manager would have taken tyrone any further in recent years. As I said before other than Kerry and to a lesser extent Dublin all counties struggle after a great period. Done, Meath, Galway etc are examples.

I looked at the talent that was named to bring in and if anyone thinks they're better than what is currently there they're deluded.

[armaghniac]

I hope Tyrone players show the pride in their county that their neighbours to the north showed in the qualifiers this year.

[Fuzzman]

Redhand S do you not think there must be better defenders in the county?
Tough lads that their focus is more on defending and spoiling rather than being good ball players who can run all day

Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly are two great players but are they really half backs?
Our whole defence has changed so much in the last 2 years with only McCrory becoming a regular in the last 3 or 4 games. McNamee was getting dropped a lot last year and then he comes in and does full back a few games and then corner back and then dropped again.
It's one thing changing around a few forwards but defenders need to have consistency so they can rely on each other and know what each other is going to do.

[Redhand Santa]

I don't think there are many people missing that would be top class man markers. I think we're getting closer to as good a defence as we have. You'd like to find a top class corner back from somewhere but I'm not sure they're currently out there.

Mattie d is probably as good a half back as there is in ulster. The problem is we need him up the pitch too. I would agree the half back line has been too attacking and would like to see someone holding at centre half back like joe or Gormley.

[God14]

Redhand Santa, I wouldn't be too annoyed if Tyrone are beat on Sunday. A defeat on Sunday would sharpen minds. Its time for a change. We've been too stale & predictable for a long time - both in terms of squad selection, playing style, tactics...
Think of the optimism and fresh impetus to be garnered over the winter months by a first change of management in 12 years! Followed by a new squad brimming with fresh faces. Old favourites of Hartes binned (I would name name, but don't wanna be negative) & replaced by fresh talent. Im thinking on the likes of Richie Donnelly, Dan McNulty, Harry Og Conlan, Frank Burns, Tommy Canavan, Dean McNally etc I could go on

Someone like Malachy O'Rourke would be ideal. Give him the league months to get us organised defensively & we'd be back dining at the top table in no time. Because at the minute we're a long way from that.

Up Ard Mhacha Tir Eoghain!

I only have ever been M Harte's company once and he is a nice man who is intelligent and lives and breathes Tyrone and GAA, he has won Ulster titles and 3 All Ireland's and some supporters want him chased...that's unbelievable tbh and as an Armagh man I find it ridiculous. You are starting to suffer slightly as your teams are not as strong as they have been in the past and too many successful years can blind you from the transition that you are going through and I have to say you are still quite lucky as the players you have are still making you a top 7 or 8 team in the country whereas we totally lost the plot for a few years and are only starting to make a bit of headway this year, I've no doubt in 2 years we will be back challenging for Ulster titles and still getting a game in August.

Remember you'll not know what you had until its gone and then there'll be a crying session looking Micky back...

P.S. if you chase him Armagh should grab him with both hands and he could join our management team for the start of the revolution ;-)

Would agree exactly with this. I suspect no manager would have taken tyrone any further in recent years. As I said before other than Kerry and to a lesser extent Dublin all counties struggle after a great period. Done, Meath, Galway etc are examples.

I looked at the talent that was named to bring in and if anyone thinks they're better than what is currently there they're deluded.

Really? You reckon Emmet McKenna would do better than say Richie Donnelly at No. 10 this Sunday? I must be deluded then.

[Fuzzman]

and RoN and Coney need a good run of games so fans, management and team members can learn to believe in them.

Yes Coney has his faults and seems to play with an element of fear but unless he gets a good run of games with no fear of being called ashore then he'll continue feeling on edge and that everyone is out to say he's just not got what it takes. McAliskey is another who has done well anytime I've saw him but he certainly hasn't got many chances this year. McGinley would be grand at wing back I think if he can be taught to stick tight to his man and not be so attack minded.

I'll be shocked if we don't see Mark D, Stevie and Conor Gormley all on early in the 2nd half if not before. Taking off Coney and/or McAliskey sends out the message that you're AGAIN not good enough.

[Redhand Santa]

Have you been to see the u21s play in the ulster championship in recent years? Nearly every player you listed have been part of teams that have given some of the worst displays I've ever seen from tyrone teams. Those players have nearly all been involved with very limited impact. Those teams weren't managed by Harte so he can't be blamed.

Richie Donnelly seems to be a decent player, whether he'd work hard enough at the level is hard to know. Hopefully he'll get a chance in the coming years so we can see. At the minute I don't think it would make a massive difference to the team if he was in for McKenna.

[Redhand Santa]

and RoN and Coney need a good run of games so fans, management and team members can learn to believe in them.

Yes Coney has his faults and seems to play with an element of fear but unless he gets a good run of games with no fear of being called ashore then he'll continue feeling on edge and that everyone is out to say he's just not got what it takes. McAliskey is another who has done well anytime I've saw him but he certainly hasn't got many chances this year. McGinley would be grand at wing back I think if he can be taught to stick tight to his man and not be so attack minded.

I'll be shocked if we don't see Mark D, Stevie and Conor Gormley all on early in the 2nd half if not before. Taking off Coney and/or McAliskey sends out the message that you're AGAIN not good enough.

I would be a fan of roman o'neill but after watching the Monaghan game it's hard to make a case for him starting. Was considerably off the pace and couldn't win the ball.

[rodney trotter]

Richie Donnelly wasn't making the UUJ team this year, they had a lot of big names, but he would want to be starting at that level if he to be the answer for Tyrone..

[illdecide]

Illdecide, you and many more from outside the county feel the exact same way about Harte

Like you said you only met the man once and you have a certain view of the man. Loads more feel the exact same. Lovely man and for God Sake he won 3 AI's with ye. Leave him be!

I'm not in a witch hunt to get him out but I think you're being a TAD naive. IMHO Mickey has had a lot on his mind the last number of years and so has been passed out by other younger managers in the tactical nous of what it takes now to win an AI. He's a very very very stubborn man who doesn't like being told what to do by all accounts. Back in 2003 (from reading his book) he seeked advice and help from everywhere and talked very openly to his players and backroom team.
"From what I hear", now he hardly talks to anyone and players are almost scared to engage with him. I'm not sure now as I'm not there but that's what I've been told.
The constant chopping and changing of players the last 2 years seems a little strange and IMHO doesn't let a team develop or grow properly.
We've definitely got the players there to be a top 5 team I think but would someone like Jim McGuinness to a better job with them. Look how little his teams change. Look how everyone knows their job inside out. Look how Mal O'Rourke has turned around a mediocre Monaghan into a team that could maybe claim back to back Ulsters which is no mean feat.

Fair enough we might not have a terrible manager but sometimes there needs to be a change of direction and a clean break. I wonder how the players themselves would feel but of course if they speak out they'll probably suffer.

You may be right about Micky but all I know is you can fluke one all Ireland with a good team but if you win 3 then he obviously knows his stuff and as much as the game does evolve I don't think it has went that far from Micky's brain that he doesn't know what he's doing...its only my opinion but I believe the players you have now aren't at the same standard you had 5 and 10 years ago and you are struggling to realise this as you believe the current team is better than your results are showing... Don't forget Tyrone have had a lot of injuries to key men in key positions and this has an effect on your younger players coming through as they rely on them for their experience and leadership, things could be a lot different in a year or two and then you'll think back and say " f**k I was looking Micky chased"

I know the bottom few lines contradict the top but the top is my opinion and the bottom part is what could happen...Anyway may the mighty buckfast brigade line your pockets on Sunday and Armagh come away with a 2-11 to 1-13 win...(can't remember if that's with paddy powers handi cap included in that score line)

[Redhand Santa]

We'll hammer armagh out of omagh on Sunday, have a routine win over Cavan next week, get revenge over Monaghan in round 4 and send the all ireland champions packing in the quarters. Everyone will be back in love with Harte and the use of so many players to build competition will be billed as a master stroke.

[TF15]

RON has nowhere near the engine to play wing half forward at this level. Perhaps 11 but even then would he be able to track the runs of the likes of Colm Boyle or Karl Lacey. I really like him as a player and at club level he is phenomenal so hope it happens for him. I think corner forward coming out to the D is his best position atm. Emmett McKenna is there for his athleticism. I'll be honest, he's never impressed me but I'm willing to give him the chance as he supposedly is showing up very strongly in training. Richie Donnelly wouldn't have the pace for wing forward. Tbh I think the defenders we have are probably the best we have. They're just not top, top level. Sad to say but its just the truth! Losing McCarron was a big blow in fairness but even then we haven't had a full back flying for a few games back to back since Justy in 08. Not overly confident but think we'll have enough to come through but its quarters at best with this side unless something transforms over the players.

[nrico2006]

and RoN and Coney need a good run of games so fans, management and team members can learn to believe in them.

Yes Coney has his faults and seems to play with an element of fear but unless he gets a good run of games with no fear of being called ashore then he'll continue feeling on edge and that everyone is out to say he's just not got what it takes. McAliskey is another who has done well anytime I've saw him but he certainly hasn't got many chances this year. McGinley would be grand at wing back I think if he can be taught to stick tight to his man and not be so attack minded.

I'll be shocked if we don't see Mark D, Stevie and Conor Gormley all on early in the 2nd half if not before. Taking off Coney and/or McAliskey sends out the message that you're AGAIN not good enough.

I would be a fan of roman o'neill but after watching the Monaghan game it's hard to make a case for him starting. Was considerably off the pace and couldn't win the ball.

I think the point is that the like of Ronan O'Neill, Coney and a few others seem to get very few chances compared to others.  There are a few players who were terrible against Monaghan and Down yet will play the next day without a doubt or be one of the first subs on.  Definitely seems to be favourites.  We have a terrible strategy which has been the same for years now, things need to evolve and change and I don't think Harte is the man to do that.  All great managers run their course with a particular team. 

[Redhand Santa]

Coney has been injured in recent years so never got a chance in the championship. Tomorrow is his third start of 5 championship games this year and he made a sub appearance in the other. He also got plenty of game time in the league. Ronan O'Neill started the first 3 but didn't take his chance. This is the first year he has probably entered the championship fully fit too.

[tiempo]

Richie Donnelly wasn't making the UUJ team this year, they had a lot of big names, but he would want to be starting at that level if he to be the answer for Tyrone..

Mark McHugh wasn't making the UUJ Sigerson team the year he won the All-Ireland with Donegal. Ricey never played county minor or U21. The players are out there, its about finding them and developing them, and of course they must be ready and willing to give it everything. Mugsy said in his book he got the impression some players were only along for the ride. Suppose that's what you're up against too.