British and Irish Lions Tour 2013

[passedit]

The last Lions team to win a deciding match in Australia.

15    FB    Gavin Hastings
14    W    Ieuan Evans
13    C    Jerry Guscott
12    C    Scott Hastings
11    W    Rory Underwood
10    FH    Rob Andrew
9    SH    Robert Jones
1    P    David Sole
2    H    Brian Moore
3    P    Dai Young
4    L    Paul Ackford
5    L    Wade Dooley
6    F    Mike Teague
7    F    Finlay Calder (c)
8    N8    Dean Richards

In the words of another Aussie 'Can you tell what it is yet?'

[Bord na Mona man]

If the Lions win, the Gatland's dropping of O'Driscoll will be hailed as courageous masterstroke. It will be a black mark on O'Driscoll's career because the wisdom will become that he stayed on too long, was over the hill and needed to be pushed off the stage in order to rescue a Lions series.

If they lose, or even get thumped Gatland will be the villain and will get a right shoeing for being both wrong, callous and possibly biased. Imagine the grilling he'll gets next Spring when he brings Wales (the Lions) over to Dublin for the 6 nations for example! Every press conference and newspaper article about him for the next few years will dredge it up.

I'd get much more enjoyment out of the 2nd scenario! 

[screenexile]

Decision obviously based on form and combination

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VttNqKXu84o&sns=em

With Tuilagi and Roberts injured we were always going to struggle at 12 as Davies is a natural 13. It looks like he fucked up twice there at least.

Yes it seems like a bad call especially when it's Brian O'Driscoll but Davies has played well at 13 in this tour and the Lions gameplan of 12 bashing the Aussies and 13 running off him hasn't happened yet and it's fairly clear Gatland has nailed his colours to the mast on this one. We will have strong runners bashing up the middle with the likes of O'Brien, Faletau and Roberts/Tuilagi.

He'd better hope this tactic works because if the game hangs in the balance with 10 to go where is the leadership that is going to take us over the line in a tight situation?

[passedit]

Tom English ‏@TomEnglishSport 5m

I'm guessing that this wouldn't be a good time to mention that Ian Evans is very unlucky...

[Tubberman]

Some of the comments here are quite disarming.

I've no emotional favour to the Lions, but "they" are actually "we". I'm not telling anyone they have to cheer on the Lions, but as a team they do actually represent Ireland.

This reminds me of a thread on here years ago when Darren Clarke didn't get a wildcard pick for the Ryder Cup. Ian Poulter (one of the best match players in the world) was rightly chosen instead, but it was enough to turn Europe into "them".

Get behind a team or don't get behind them, but don't change your colours because you don't agree with the manager.



NAG1 - For the best part of a decade, BOD was by some distance the best player in the world in his position, and often the standout player in the world. There were no flaws in his game. Skill, flair, poise, dedication, athleticism, application, commitment, longevity, all in bucketloads. You'd do well to find anyone even fit to ride his coat tails.

nrico - For the past 5 years BOD has played more like a flanker than a centre for Ireland and Leinster. His game evolved into this role as his pace began to leave him. In some ways him doing this is robbing Peter to pay Paul, but it's not as obvious when he's with Ireland or Leinster as the coaches have worked this into their systems.



And finally, have a look at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/match-centre_table.php. That's the most recent gauge of each team's worth in the Northern Hemisphere. The English can feel aggrieved at 10 Welshmen. Ireland cannot feel aggrieved at having 3 spots.

They are not 'we'. They are an amalgamation of national sides that includes Ireland, but that doesn't make us all 'Lions'.
Ireland is represented in the Lions, but that's different to saying the Lions represent Ireland - in my view at least.
If no Irish player was selected, would we still have to consider the Lions as representing us?

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

But Connacht is part of Ireland.
Ireland is not part of some 'Britain & Ireland' state/nation... we'll leave Ulster out of it for now ;-).

[Walter Cronc]

Some of the comments here are quite disarming.

I've no emotional favour to the Lions, but "they" are actually "we". I'm not telling anyone they have to cheer on the Lions, but as a team they do actually represent Ireland.

This reminds me of a thread on here years ago when Darren Clarke didn't get a wildcard pick for the Ryder Cup. Ian Poulter (one of the best match players in the world) was rightly chosen instead, but it was enough to turn Europe into "them".

Get behind a team or don't get behind them, but don't change your colours because you don't agree with the manager.



NAG1 - For the best part of a decade, BOD was by some distance the best player in the world in his position, and often the standout player in the world. There were no flaws in his game. Skill, flair, poise, dedication, athleticism, application, commitment, longevity, all in bucketloads. You'd do well to find anyone even fit to ride his coat tails.

nrico - For the past 5 years BOD has played more like a flanker than a centre for Ireland and Leinster. His game evolved into this role as his pace began to leave him. In some ways him doing this is robbing Peter to pay Paul, but it's not as obvious when he's with Ireland or Leinster as the coaches have worked this into their systems.



And finally, have a look at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/match-centre_table.php. That's the most recent gauge of each team's worth in the Northern Hemisphere. The English can feel aggrieved at 10 Welshmen. Ireland cannot feel aggrieved at having 3 spots.

They are not 'we'. They are an amalgamation of national sides that includes Ireland, but that doesn't make us all 'Lions'.
Ireland is represented in the Lions, but that's different to saying the Lions represent Ireland - in my view at least.
If no Irish player was selected, would we still have to consider the Lions as representing us?

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

But Connacht is part of Ireland.
Ireland is not part of some 'Britain & Ireland' state/nation... we'll leave Ulster out of it for now ;-).

So it comes down to politics, and you probably another FG man!!

Stick you lads to winning All Irelands.....oh wait!

[mouview]

I kind of agree with you Tubberman. I've no more allegiance to the Lions than I do to the Ryder Cup team, or to Ulster in Railway Cup, or even to Ireland in the International Rules series. Which is basically none.

These teams are forced together for the purposes of sport, rather than bonded together to represent.

But in saying that, while the result will not affect my thoughts, I'd still prefer to see "us" beat the opposition in all those events. No jingoism, no national pride, it's just a preference.

s

No, they are the British and Irish Lions, therefore they represent us. They are 'we', not 'them'. Similarly, just having no Irish player on the Ryder Cup team, doesn't make it less representative of golf here. The team represents Europe (and European golf) of which we are an intrinsic part.

[gallsman]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

[Walter Cronc]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

Rugby must be popular round West Belfast given the interest you have in this thread!

[gallsman]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

Rugby must be popular round West Belfast given the interest you have in this thread!

a) I'm not from West Belfast.
b) I hear it's absolutely massive in South Derry.

[Walter Cronc]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

Rugby must be popular round West Belfast given the interest you have in this thread!

a) I'm not from West Belfast.
b) I hear it's absolutely massive in South Derry.

Oh thats right you Galls men are from all over the City

[Declan]

Good to see Mugsy's thoughts on it

@owen_mulligan: Warren Gatland must had dinner with Micky Harte last night. The two wee skitters drop kicking men in to touch flat out. #ruthless

[gallsman]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

Rugby must be popular round West Belfast given the interest you have in this thread!

a) I'm not from West Belfast.
b) I hear it's absolutely massive in South Derry.

Oh thats right you Galls men are from all over the City

You mentioned something previously about fondly remembering the amateur era? Something about the content of your posts makes me doubt you can remember it, never mind fondly.

[Walter Cronc]

So by that logic an Ireland team minus Connacht players don't represent Connacht people. Right I get ya!!

Listen to yourself man. You have the cheek to tell me to catch myself on. All Irishmen may not be from Connacht, but all Connacht men are by default Irishmen, like it or not. We're not all "Lions"

Rugby must be popular round West Belfast given the interest you have in this thread!

a) I'm not from West Belfast.
b) I hear it's absolutely massive in South Derry.

Oh thats right you Galls men are from all over the City

You mentioned something previously about fondly remembering the amateur era? Something about the content of your posts makes me doubt you can remember it, never mind fondly.

Well you've doubted wrong, I do remember manys a game in the amateur days!!

[GAA_Punter]

Strange decision to drop both off the match squad, Gatland must be very fond of playing streetrugby ( bit.ly/13NfnxO ) and impressed by Sean O'Brien knocking over buses around Dublin