Queens withdraw from McKenna Cup

[yellowcard]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

[ONeill]

If the unis pull out how do you play it off? The only way is as a knockout then half the teams only get one or two games.

The unis make it much more viable for everyone as league preparation with the league system and number of games.

The same way it was played out for half a decade.

[imtommygunn]

Was that not during a time when the league started pre christmas so it wasn't even a warm up for the league?

[ONeill]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

Tyrone's last game in the McKenna last year:

J Devine,
A McCrory, Justin McMahon, PJ Quinn,
C McCarron, P Harte, D Carlin,
M Murphy, C Cavanagh,
Mattie Donnelly, P Hughes, M Penrose,
O Mulligan, Mark Donnelly, Stephen O'Neill

Joe McMahon and Sean O'Neill came on.

[Redhand Santa]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

Funny you should ask that. In 2003 Mickey Harte was manager of Tyrone and Errigal who were in the All Ireland semi final below and guess what ... The Errigal players took part in the McKenna Cup. See below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2652517.stm

People are throwing all sorts of accusations out here like Harte is doing it because of Paddy Tally. But the reality is he has taken it seriously from the start and used it to see how new players fit into the team. Many of the players who went on to win the All Ireland in 03 played in the McKenna Cup and it was it he used to settle in his new team. For example McGuigan was played at centre half forward, Devlin at centre half back etc. Its obvious now that with an inexperienced team Harte wants to get them settled in from early in the season and see how other players fit in.

Right back to the Hastings Cup in 2000/2001 Harte took pre season competitions seriously when managing the u21s. If he thinks having the players available for the McKenna Cup is a good thing for Tyrone this year then I'd be disappointed if he didn't push for it. At the end of the day his job is to do what he thinks is best for Tyrone and he has to stand over the results.

[theticklemister]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

We got stuffed that day. Damn u colm cavanagh

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

Tyrone's last game in the McKenna last year:

J Devine,
A McCrory, Justin McMahon, PJ Quinn,
C McCarron, P Harte, D Carlin,
M Murphy, C Cavanagh,
Mattie Donnelly, P Hughes, M Penrose,
O Mulligan, Mark Donnelly, Stephen O'Neill

Joe McMahon and Sean O'Neill came on.

[Redhand Santa]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2634419.stm

That was the team for Harte's first game in charge in 2003 in the McKenna Cup. I make it 8 of the team went on to start on the All Ireland winning team and Stephen O'Neill came on as a sub. People might say it was his first game in charge and he was getting used to the players but I think in the last few years Harte has been trying to get all his younger players available because he's trying to rebuild a team and get them playing the way he wants and that can take time. He has been pretty consistent over wanting players to play in it from the start.

His attitude of taking it seriously has done a lot more for the McKenna Cup than that of the managers who have released the university players and said the competition doesn't matter and they don't care about winning it.

[yellowcard]

Fair enough, it seems like Harte actually does set out to win the competition based on his team selections and he is nothing if not consistent in calling on all players available to him. I don't agree with his thinking though in terms of his belief that he should have exclusive access to players at this time of year. in Armagh the Crossmaglen players haven't been asked to make themselves available for the county and yet the Armagh university players HAVE been forced to play for their county....no consistency there.

[ONeill]

Fair enough but why is anyone interested in universities playing in the McKenna Cup? They have their Sigerson as they always have. They still play their friendlies against counties across the county. The McKenna is not all that important apart from preparing counties for the NFL.

[yellowcard]

Perhaps there is too much talk about managers and players on this issue and not enough about the bunch of "administrators" who are supposed to be enforcing the rules?. When you have a scenario wherby the competitors are not adhering to the rules and the administrators are not enforcing them then you get chaos. Is it any wonder a team wants to get out?
The Ulster Council have provided zero governance on this aissue and only for Queen's taking a stand no-one would even know that this nonsense goes on behind closed doors. The Ulster Council are the culprits in this like they are in many other similar issues. They are weak 2nd rate administrators when you compare them to the other provinces.

Agree 100%

[yellowcard]

Fair enough but why is anyone interested in universities playing in the McKenna Cup? They have their Sigerson as they always have. They still play their friendlies against counties across the county. The McKenna is not all that important apart from preparing counties for the NFL.

I'm not hell bent on whether the universities play in the Mckenna cup or not but the fact that the Ulster Council took them in and are now standing idly by as the county managers are forcing them to play without half a dozen of their best players is the crux of the matter. As stated, weak leadership from the Ulster council.

[ck]

Fair enough but why is anyone interested in universities playing in the McKenna Cup? They have their Sigerson as they always have. They still play their friendlies against counties across the county. The McKenna is not all that important apart from preparing counties for the NFL.

Who invited the Unis into the McKenna Cup? The Ulster Council, in an attempt to re-vamp the competition. It worked. Then St. Mickey demanded college players (after he and Tally publicly fell out). The Ulster Council did sweet FA cos nobody argues with St.Mickey. The colleges get annoyed and complain. Ulster Council tell them that they would "sort it out for next year". And 3 years later one of the colleges say enough is enough. The Ulster Council blame everyone except themselves and offer no decent explanation as to why they didnt attempt to sort this before it came to this.

Case in point. Mickey Harte could have done more to prevent this, but why should he? The Ulster Council should sort it. Put the colleges out or keep them in and stick to the rules. All of the other debate is irrelivant

[ONeill]

What do you mean it worked?

People trot that line out with no evidence.

The only well-attended games involve 2 county sides. The best attended games involve county sides going well.

I understand the rule argument, but is it a rule? I thought I read that the ethos was to be that unis had first choice but wasn't necessarily an enforced directive.

[ck]

Of course it worked. It added so much to a competition that was dead. In fact it didnt even take place for 2 out of the 3 years pre the colleges being invited in! The colleges added a whole new dimension which placed pressure on counties and the whole thing took legs. All of a sudden you had TG4 dong live games etc. I'm with a Connaught college and the McKenna cup was such a success that the three other provinces then invited our colleges into their equivalent competitions.
Yes it's a rule. It's rule no 1 on the McKenna cup list. Its also a rule in the 3 other provinces. Why do you think Paul Grimley cant take Kevin Dyas from UCD or why do Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan players all play for their colleges - because its a rule thats upheld by decent administrators. The opposite has happened in Ulster due to weak administration who refuse to enforce rules.

[Syferus]

Of course it worked. It added so much to a competition that was dead. In fact it didnt even take place for 2 out of the 3 years pre the colleges being invited in! The colleges added a whole new dimension which placed pressure on counties and the whole thing took legs. All of a sudden you had TG4 dong live games etc. I'm with a Connaught college and the McKenna cup was such a success that the three other provinces then invited our colleges into their equivalent competitions.
Yes it's a rule. It's rule no 1 on the McKenna cup list. Its also a rule in the 3 other provinces. Why do you think Paul Grimley cant take Kevin Dyas from UCD or why do Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan players all play for their colleges - because its a rule thats upheld by decent administrators. The opposite has happened in Ulster due to weak administration who refuse to enforce rules.

When Kildare play their junior team in the O'Bryne Cup final and Mayo decide it's not worth going to New York City to play the FBD final you can hardly say these pre-season tournaments are full of life.

The only games anyone but the colleges care about are the local rivalry games and more regional-specific tournaments that completely dispensed with college participation would be better for all sides, and likely the counties' coffers as well.