Queens withdraw from McKenna Cup

[INDIANA]

Of course it worked. It added so much to a competition that was dead. In fact it didnt even take place for 2 out of the 3 years pre the colleges being invited in! The colleges added a whole new dimension which placed pressure on counties and the whole thing took legs. All of a sudden you had TG4 dong live games etc. I'm with a Connaught college and the McKenna cup was such a success that the three other provinces then invited our colleges into their equivalent competitions.
Yes it's a rule. It's rule no 1 on the McKenna cup list. Its also a rule in the 3 other provinces. Why do you think Paul Grimley cant take Kevin Dyas from UCD or why do Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan players all play for their colleges - because its a rule thats upheld by decent administrators. The opposite has happened in Ulster due to weak administration who refuse to enforce rules.

The colleges in the O byrne Cup for example has added little. Final DCU v kildare was played in front of a small crowd. Biggest crowd was between Dublin v Kildare semi final. C'est la vie.

[ONeill]

Of course it worked. It added so much to a competition that was dead. In fact it didnt even take place for 2 out of the 3 years pre the colleges being invited in! The colleges added a whole new dimension which placed pressure on counties and the whole thing took legs. All of a sudden you had TG4 dong live games etc. I'm with a Connaught college and the McKenna cup was such a success that the three other provinces then invited our colleges into their equivalent competitions.
Yes it's a rule. It's rule no 1 on the McKenna cup list. Its also a rule in the 3 other provinces. Why do you think Paul Grimley cant take Kevin Dyas from UCD or why do Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan players all play for their colleges - because its a rule thats upheld by decent administrators. The opposite has happened in Ulster due to weak administration who refuse to enforce rules.

The TG4 thing - how many of those games involved uni sides? I still don't buy into the unis reinvigorating it. Armagh in 2002 and Tyrone in 2003 did.

As for the rules - can you quote them?

[TY14ED]

Fair enough but why is anyone interested in universities playing in the McKenna Cup? They have their Sigerson as they always have. They still play their friendlies against counties across the county. The McKenna is not all that important apart from preparing counties for the NFL.

Who invited the Unis into the McKenna Cup? The Ulster Council, in an attempt to re-vamp the competition. It worked. Then St. Mickey demanded college players (after he and Tally publicly fell out). The Ulster Council did sweet FA cos nobody argues with St.Mickey. The colleges get annoyed and complain. Ulster Council tell them that they would "sort it out for next year". And 3 years later one of the colleges say enough is enough. The Ulster Council blame everyone except themselves and offer no decent explanation as to why they didnt attempt to sort this before it came to this.

Case in point. Mickey Harte could have done more to prevent this, but why should he? The Ulster Council should sort it. Put the colleges out or keep them in and stick to the rules. All of the other debate is irrelivant

Let's look at it from another angle (& I'll use Tyrone as an example as Harte seems to have irked you no end)- if Warnock was with queens & used in the McKenna cup, is he a definite starter in Sigerson? or could he drop down the pecking order as may (or may not) happen with Tyrone.

[TY14ED]

Harte and other managers are 'hired' to manage their county side to success. They need to hit the ground running in the NFL or they'll be facing relegation before they know it. To do that you need a semi-settled side. Tyrone are away to Mayo and Down in their first two games. I can understand why Harte and others want their favoured 15 playing together.

The Ulster Council can run the McKenna (and gate receipts) with the county teams only. The unis don't pull in that much revenue. They're not a big loss.

Invariably the McKenna cup is used by county managers to experiment with players new to the panel to see if they can cut it. The existing members of the panel will have been tested last year and their capabilities should be well known to management especially to Harte who has been there a decade. I would contend that these matches take on 2 main roles...1)to get the team match fit and 2)to test new panel members against county opponents.

Dress it up whatever way you want, its Harte & co on a power trip to show whos the boss. If Errigal Ciaran were in an AI semi final should he call on those players as well?

Funny you should ask that. In 2003 Mickey Harte was manager of Tyrone and Errigal who were in the All Ireland semi final below and guess what ... The Errigal players took part in the McKenna Cup. See below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/2652517.stm

People are throwing all sorts of accusations out here like Harte is doing it because of Paddy Tally. But the reality is he has taken it seriously from the start and used it to see how new players fit into the team. Many of the players who went on to win the All Ireland in 03 played in the McKenna Cup and it was it he used to settle in his new team. For example McGuigan was played at centre half forward, Devlin at centre half back etc. Its obvious now that with an inexperienced team Harte wants to get them settled in from early in the season and see how other players fit in.

Right back to the Hastings Cup in 2000/2001 Harte took pre season competitions seriously when managing the u21s. If he thinks having the players available for the McKenna Cup is a good thing for Tyrone this year then I'd be disappointed if he didn't push for it. At the end of the day his job is to do what he thinks is best for Tyrone and he has to stand over the results.

Like Harte or loathe him, I don't think anyone can argue with the above point

[yellowcard]

A bit of common sense from Jarlath.

Burns slams "ridiculous standpoint"

Jarlath Burns says the "ridiculous standpoint" of some counties is ruining the McKenna Cup.

Queen's University have already pulled out of next month's subsidiary competition up north due to the anticipated unavailability of key players and the former Armagh captain believes that county managers should have left well enough alone:

"One county broke ranks - we all know which one," he said in this week's Gaelic Life. "Then, like a herd of sheep, some of the other Ulster counties followed. Fair play to Antrim and Derry, at least they had a bit of sense and have stayed loyal to the format that makes the competition meaningful.

"Coercing college players to line out with their county in a competition that has no real purpose than to get lads out on to a field is a ridiculous standpoint. It puts a wedge between these lads and their universities.

"The players are piggy in the middle - torn between their college, their mates and whatever chance they have of playing county football."

[yellowcard]

And Brian McIvor too, more player orientated approach.

McIver backs colleges, 100%

Brian McIver has "no problem" with Derry players representing their colleges in the McKenna Cup.

The subsidiary intercounty provincial competition up north has become embroiled in a colleges versus counties row which led to the withdrawal of Queen's but Derry boss McIver - whose trainer/selector Paddy Tally coaches St Mary's - told The Examiner that he is firmly on the side of the colleges:

"I have absolutely no problem with the lads playing for their universities. Look, the McKenna Cup was dead and buried and in came the universities and suddenly it got a new lease of life.

"All of a sudden you are going to say, 'let's go back to the way it was'? I'm 100% behind the universities and have no problem with letting lads play for them.

"The McKenna Cup is great at this time of year for getting boys football.

"Those lads playing for universities are probably going to get at least three full games and all the lads that I want to get a look at, I will get a look at. If I am really concerned about any of them, I would just send down a selector to watch some of them on a night that we are playing.

"As I say, all I want out of the McKenna Cup is to get lads' football and get everyone ready for the national league. That's what it allows you to do."

Derry will have Chrissy McKaigue and Emmett McGuckian on the UUJ team, while Emmett Bradley and Benny Herron will feature for St Mary's. James Kielt and Kevin Johnston had been cleared to play for Queen's.

[rodney trotter]

I thought Emmett Bradley got a move to a AFL club a few months ago. Did it not go through or what happened, Sean Hurley from Kildare went at the same time..

[Rawhide]

The Glen manager din't allow him to go

[yellowcard]

I thought Emmett Bradley got a move to a AFL club a few months ago. Did it not go through or what happened, Sean Hurley from Kildare went at the same time..

As far as I know Kilkenny was the only Irish player to make the AFL rookie list. Did Bradley turn an offer down?

[ck]

A truly pathetic response by Danny Murphy in today's Irish Independent. He acknowledges that Regulation 1 states that the colleges have first preference on players (in line with other provinces) but goes on to say that he can't enforce this rule (the opposite to other provinces) cos that would be telling players who they can and cant play for. Then why have rules and regulations at all if they can't be enforced?

[theticklemister]

A truly pathetic response by Danny Murphy in today's Irish Independent. He acknowledges that Regulation 1 states that the colleges have first preference on players (in line with other provinces) but goes on to say that he can't enforce this rule (the opposite to other provinces) cos that would be telling players who they can and cant play for. Then why have rules and regulations at all if they can't be enforced?

There should be Protests all over Ulster in opposition...............................................

[Donnellys Hollow]

I thought Emmett Bradley got a move to a AFL club a few months ago. Did it not go through or what happened, Sean Hurley from Kildare went at the same time..

They were only invited to the draft. Hurley is still here anyway. Played Kildare u21 championship for JTB only a week or two back.

[stronghold]

Problem is that all the students where all made to sign a letters stating that they did not want to play for their University and opted for their County. The Ulster Council are powerless to act . The managers and Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone County boards should be ashamed of themselves putting students in this position

[ck]

Totally agree but if the council are powerless then why do they have rules at all? Why is this not an issue in Connaught for example? I take your point and agree the county managers operate outside the rules but why wouldn't they if they no there are no implications?
I served on prov council as a HE junior delegate in the 90's and have no faith whatsoever in these lads. Most are self serving and only look after their own. This mckenna cup issue would appear to be a classic case of this as the colleges appear to have no protection at all in Ulster.

[INDIANA]

A truly pathetic response by Danny Murphy in today's Irish Independent. He acknowledges that Regulation 1 states that the colleges have first preference on players (in line with other provinces) but goes on to say that he can't enforce this rule (the opposite to other provinces) cos that would be telling players who they can and cant play for. Then why have rules and regulations at all if they can't be enforced?

So players will play with universities over counties? I forgot Queens were now in the race for Sam

What planet do you live on?