Rangers FC to go into administration

[michaelg]

It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing  (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.

Yes, boys like McClean feel so strongly about their national identity that it seems inextricably linked with the fortunes of the teams.

Yes indeed - Young McClean felt so strongly about his national identity that he was happy to represent Northern Ireland at U21 level

[dillinger]

[quote author=Main Street    Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.

You could say the same about Rangers flying the Union flag, it's their colours. Is there any need for any of them to fly flags?

[Minder]

It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing  (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.

Yes, boys like McClean feel so strongly about their national identity that it seems inextricably linked with the fortunes of the teams.

Yes indeed - Young McClean felt so strongly about his national identity that he was happy to represent Northern Ireland at U21 level

And contemplated playing for Northern Ireland only they didn't pick him when he was playing for Derry City.

[Leo]

It didn't take long for the slow-burn discussion of Rangers' administration to turn into a full-blown hate-filled blind-alley sectarain debate.
If only BOTH of Glasgow's putrid stir-pots of religious bile could be consigned to liquidation........
These two so-called clubs have no meaning or function beyond the crass and debased "culture" of hate and bigotry that they peddle, no matter how they try to dress it up.

[Ulick]

Dunno, I'm finding the whole thing fascinating on a number of levels. I've never really took an interest in soccer although there's pictures about of me wearing the hoops as a child. In fairness I can claim a tenuous link through my grandfather who lined out for them in the '20's before returning home as a founder member and player for the green and white hoops of the Highmoss Sarsfields. Always wondered if there was a link between the skips.

Anyhow, from a geeky point of view, the rangerstaxcase blog exemplifies the value of crowdsourced investigative journalism. Not only did the bloggers and commenters  "pull down the facade at Rangers" exposing the greed and corruption, but also the shear lunacy of the 'win at all costs mentality' of professional soccer. From what I've read, Rangers had a number of opportunities over the past decade to rein in the spending and get themselves on an even keel but they choose instead to spend millions more and gamble on European glory. They've bankrupted themselves in an attempt to buy bragging rights over their neighbours. Crazy. No notion of fairness or sportsmanship exist is this game, it's not even about winning, it's about dominating all around you. If the GAA ever goes professional, I'll cease to me a member the same day.

On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream',  "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.

I didn't know until I read this thread that Celtic fans had a history of claiming establishment conspiracies against them but from reading the coverage of this story I have been genuinely amazed how the media have been giving an easy ride to the various players in the Rangers saga. A bigger dose of gangsters, chancers, gombeens, conmen, free-loaders, idiots and outright psychopaths has never to my knowledge ever blighted this earth but the Scottish media seems oblivious to them all - as do their politicians.

[lynchbhoy]

That is both horrendously arrogant, and utter shite.

The average Scot is well aware of what bigotry is - it's not above us, it's beneath us.  We're better than that, and we loathe the Old Firm for dragging us down.

so the problems in glasgow/scotland/britain are of bigotry origins as opposed to societal....

pray tell me what 'religion' do the aberdonians fight under - or milwall or west ham...

I find your respones a tad hypocritical given that you have admitted that aberden 'had' (yeah had   !!) a violent group that just wanted to fight!
but you are giving it loads about Irish rebel songs that are no longer part of the framwork in Celtic park - but these you say are current and use as part of your stick, but the aberdeen casuals are in the pas so cannt be referenced?
come off it.
scotland has big problems like the rest of britain and its way deeper than bigotry.
if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?

[lynchbhoy]

Lda your opinion is valid as a jock and resident obv. As a Celtic fan traveling over for games since 1995 I've seen a fair bit and my opinion is obv one as a Celtic fan.i think that's a stereotype that non Glaswegians want to portray alright but Celtic clubs support and employees over the years would point to it being more inclusive, non sectarian and not bigoted - though there were pockets of these.
I don't fully grasp you 'explanations' above but it doesn't matter really.

Songs glorifying the IRA - that's a whole  other debate whether songs about the old IRA are the same etc etc
But the point really is about what songs glorified blowing people up?
Ok there are none.
I think you were using deliberate OTT language as many Celtic detractors are wont to do in order to make it look Like Celtic fans are al queda or something.

These songs have been banned ( despite the majority being harmless and about the deaths of Irish martyrs and not them killing anyone!!!) and thus apart from the odd time at an away match ( none at the one I attended last year) rebel songs are no longer heard at Celtic park - are there any more allegations you want me to debunk?
Look I know many of you dislike Celtic maybe hate them but plenty of jocko lads I've met from Dundee , hibs, Aberdeen , kilmarnock and dunfermeline all don't like the celts - but they hate rangers and reckon there is a difference between the two with Celtic being a lot better.
Maybe they ere just all being nice. Either way IMO you are over egging it - and your examples are mythbusted

"Mythbusted" .

I agree that Celtic as a club and their support in general are preferable to Rangers. The sectarian problem at Ibrox is without doubt worse that at Parkhead. But really being less bigoted than Glasgow Rangers is hardly something to crow about it is it   As for suggesting Celtic fans and employees would say their club is inclusive what do you think they are going to say? Mythbusting indeed.

I really can't be bothered with another debate about IRA songs but Celtic fans have sung songs in praise of the Provisional IRA this season. Perhaps you believe the PIRA were always a fine and upstanding organisation, and fair enough if you do, that's not the issue here, but the facts are that they did blow people up, plenty of innocent people, and indulged in sectarian killings. Anybody singing in support of that organisation is singing in support of what they did. Very simple really. I quite agree with you that these songs - and the add ons - and the ones about there soon being no protestants, or f*ck John Knox, are certainly not as frequest as they once were. But they can still be heard.

I wasn't deliberately over egging anything. Main Street had offered an opinion on why the majority of Scottish football fans disliked the Old Firm. I simply offered alternative - and in my opinion more realistic - reasons. I didn't expect you to like or agree with them as I know from previous debates that your an apologist for even the dregs of the Celtic support. Nonetheless, the reasons I gave are behind the widespread dislike of the Old Firm. Follow my advice and visit a few Scottish football forums, it won't take long, and you will see some genuine "mythbusting". Some proper research, rather than talking to a few "Jocko lads", would be of great benefit to you.

And I will say again that I never did and never will suggest the tricolour is sectarian. That is a point that Lynchbhoy helpfully levelled against me by twisting an earlier post. I have a tricolour here in the house that I bought on one of many trips to visit family in Ireland. I am very proud of my Irish links and of the flag. Strangely enough I still didn't feel the need to take the flag to the football match I attended today, or indeed sing any songs about Irish (or Scottish) politics whilst at the game.

Regarding a point made by Main Street I think it would be a positive thing if more of the Irish diaspora in Scotland did indeed take a greater interest in their heritage. The language perhaps, music, the long and varied history of the country, the GAA itself (I know from personal experience the difficulties in getting Scots born of Irish heritage involved in the GAA over here, the vast majority couldn't give a sh*t and 2nd/3rd generation involvement is very poor compared to say Engand) , rather than focussing so strongly on the political struggle of the previous century or so, and expressing even that very narrow view of Ireland soley through support of a football club.

no problem. Im not going to fully agree on a lot of that and think you have twisted some of the stuff I've said int he past for your reply. But thats opinions and neither really matter.
I will point out that the part about the Tricolour is in response to how I saw your post - thats how it read to me at least and obv Main Street also.
Maybe I was being pedantic about your notion that the songs referenced 'bombing'. But again one mans killer is another mans fredom fighter so I dont expect you to understand that either - or the discussion regarding the historical timleine surrounding the crafting of Irish rebel songs.

Celtic may be better than rangers (or some of them) or maybe not - but imo there is a whole lot more to scotish violence (and all the other clubs) and their societal problems than plain bigotry.
any culture that has deep fried mars bars on the menu at a restaurant has to have serious questions levelled at it (thats a bit of an attempt at humour in case you go mad about poking fun at the food in jockoland!)


one last thing - I cant resist this...
you could be right, I may know nothing about soccer - but 'charlie mulgrew' !!!

(though imo he still isnt great but....)

[lynchbhoy]

It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.

No-one has suggested it it.  Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.

The songs glorifying murderers leave a sour note.  And despite the Kevin Lynch players on here trying to deflect and deny it, the celtic happily sings songs in praise of the provos.

well he might not have meant it but LDA did mention the Irish Flag being flown in a manner that made it look like he was referencing this was some kind of bigotry symbol - though It seems he has clarified that this was not what was meant (though I still dont understnad why he would have mentioned it in the first instance then!)

please point out what song glorifies murderers.
It was also mentioned earlier that there was a song about 'blowing people up' - again I would like to find out what song this is - I kow a few rebel songs but not all the words and I'd like to know more here...

also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?

I have to admit that I find the fact that you give a fiddlers about the songs let alone them leaving you feeling perturbed or even sour a bit strange.
rule britania, gstq or the myriads of rangers songs dont bother me at all. In fact - and I have said so on here before- I quite like the tune of the sash. its just they havent a note in their heads when they sing it and ruin it !
you are very easy to offend perhaps? or do you just take offence to imporve your point?

[ONeill]

On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream',  "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.

Jaysus you can't compare forums like that. I could easily find a juvenile Spurs forum and compare it to a mature Arsenal forum. And then do the opposite if I wanted. I'm sure there are some rangermedia versions of Celtic persuasion and I'd imagine you can find a decent Rangers forum too if you wanted to.

[Main Street]

The rangersmedia website does not look to be a juvenile affair.

I looked at the Kerrydalestreet,  'The Final Generic hun (1873) Ltd Thread', which was started when Rangers went into Admin on Feb 13th,  in a day or so it had reached 600 pages, finally topped  2000 pages with 3.6m views.

[Ulick]

Not claiming my comparison is scientific or even has any value, the contrast just amuses me. Those seem to be the two main boards that are open to the public and they each reference the other. Following the same topics of each board does give a bit of an insight to where they're each coming from, though it does have to be said for humour, satire and depth of discussion 'kerrydalestreet' wins hands down.

[ONeill]

Just tried kerrydalestreet.

First thread:


Smelly hun bastards get them sacked.


The five horsemen of the apocalypse; Death, Famine, Conquest, War and a fat c**t in an XXXXXL hun top.


So I'd imagine the swearing and cursing ban is a bit lax

[Main Street]

Its a rare celtic fan that sings about land reform.

The Fields of Athenry???

Remember any contraversy when it first gained popularity with Celtic fans in the mid 90's and sung at Celtic Park around then

'condemned by football commentator Gerry McNee as a song sung for sectarian reasons solely to wind up opposing Rangers fans. "I don't have anything against the song itself. It's just used for all the wrong reasons. Until both Celtic and Rangers can dump the baggage of 300 years ago there will be no movement forward," says the broadcaster.

McNee's comments are typical of those who have the '2 shítty sides of the same coin attitude', when it comes to Celtic matters.
I think we can clearly see that the ignorant bufoon here, is McNee himself.
I would not quite put you on the same shelf with McNee, but don't provoke me

[seafoid]

Lda your opinion is valid as a jock and resident obv. As a Celtic fan traveling over for games since 1995 I've seen a fair bit and my opinion is obv one as a Celtic fan.i think that's a stereotype that non Glaswegians want to portray alright but Celtic clubs support and employees over the years would point to it being more inclusive, non sectarian and not bigoted - though there were pockets of these.
I don't fully grasp you 'explanations' above but it doesn't matter really.

Songs glorifying the IRA - that's a whole  other debate whether songs about the old IRA are the same etc etc
But the point really is about what songs glorified blowing people up?
Ok there are none.
I think you were using deliberate OTT language as many Celtic detractors are wont to do in order to make it look Like Celtic fans are al queda or something.

These songs have been banned ( despite the majority being harmless and about the deaths of Irish martyrs and not them killing anyone!!!) and thus apart from the odd time at an away match ( none at the one I attended last year) rebel songs are no longer heard at Celtic park - are there any more allegations you want me to debunk?
Look I know many of you dislike Celtic maybe hate them but plenty of jocko lads I've met from Dundee , hibs, Aberdeen , kilmarnock and dunfermeline all don't like the celts - but they hate rangers and reckon there is a difference between the two with Celtic being a lot better.
Maybe they ere just all being nice. Either way IMO you are over egging it - and your examples are mythbusted

"Mythbusted" .

I agree that Celtic as a club and their support in general are preferable to Rangers. The sectarian problem at Ibrox is without doubt worse that at Parkhead. But really being less bigoted than Glasgow Rangers is hardly something to crow about it is it   As for suggesting Celtic fans and employees would say their club is inclusive what do you think they are going to say? Mythbusting indeed.

I really can't be bothered with another debate about IRA songs but Celtic fans have sung songs in praise of the Provisional IRA this season. Perhaps you believe the PIRA were always a fine and upstanding organisation, and fair enough if you do, that's not the issue here, but the facts are that they did blow people up, plenty of innocent people, and indulged in sectarian killings. Anybody singing in support of that organisation is singing in support of what they did. Very simple really. I quite agree with you that these songs - and the add ons - and the ones about there soon being no protestants, or f*ck John Knox, are certainly not as frequest as they once were. But they can still be heard.

I wasn't deliberately over egging anything. Main Street had offered an opinion on why the majority of Scottish football fans disliked the Old Firm. I simply offered alternative - and in my opinion more realistic - reasons. I didn't expect you to like or agree with them as I know from previous debates that your an apologist for even the dregs of the Celtic support. Nonetheless, the reasons I gave are behind the widespread dislike of the Old Firm. Follow my advice and visit a few Scottish football forums, it won't take long, and you will see some genuine "mythbusting". Some proper research, rather than talking to a few "Jocko lads", would be of great benefit to you.

And I will say again that I never did and never will suggest the tricolour is sectarian. That is a point that Lynchbhoy helpfully levelled against me by twisting an earlier post. I have a tricolour here in the house that I bought on one of many trips to visit family in Ireland. I am very proud of my Irish links and of the flag. Strangely enough I still didn't feel the need to take the flag to the football match I attended today, or indeed sing any songs about Irish (or Scottish) politics whilst at the game.

Regarding a point made by Main Street I think it would be a positive thing if more of the Irish diaspora in Scotland did indeed take a greater interest in their heritage. The language perhaps, music, the long and varied history of the country, the GAA itself (I know from personal experience the difficulties in getting Scots born of Irish heritage involved in the GAA over here, the vast majority couldn't give a sh*t and 2nd/3rd generation involvement is very poor compared to say Engand) , rather than focussing so strongly on the political struggle of the previous century or so, and expressing even that very narrow view of Ireland soley through support of a football club.

Possibly the tricolour didn't work and the orange doesn't mean anything. An awful lot of people say the flag is green and gold.

[seafoid]

I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".

I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.