Irish governments turn to answer claims of collusion

[mylestheslasher]

it amazes me how Irish civil servants working in Dublin castle in 1916 and for some time thereafter who supplied details of the names of British agents and spies to the IRA (who wasted no time in shooting them) are heroes now and whose relatives adorn jaomeebollix's liveline show every week applauded by the listening public on the state broadcaster. and now guards who 'may' have did the same thing are traitors..

get this in 1989 THERE WAS WAR HERE!! a filthy dirty war.. these two cops were killed in the war just like those poor guys in cemeteries in Flanders or the kids being flown back to Wotton bassett from Afghanistan.. they were combatants!

a war Gerry adams helped bring to an end. btw

You gotta love the old "it was a war" line to justify murder.  Different story though when its armed IRA men killed on active service.

Personally I've no particular issue with what Adams said, it was a war and the IRA were at war with the RUC and the british army. I also do not whinge when the SAS or whoever shot IRA men who were unarmed and neither should republicans. I also have no interest in what the Israeli apologist Shatter (talk about real terrorists), the disgraced traitors from Fine Fail or the blueshirts have to say about it either.

[lawnseed]

it amazes me how Irish civil servants working in Dublin castle in 1916 and for some time thereafter who supplied details of the names of British agents and spies to the IRA (who wasted no time in shooting them) are heroes now and whose relatives adorn jaomeebollix's liveline show every week applauded by the listening public on the state broadcaster. and now guards who 'may' have did the same thing are traitors..

get this in 1989 THERE WAS WAR HERE!! a filthy dirty war.. these two cops were killed in the war just like those poor guys in cemeteries in Flanders or the kids being flown back to Wotton bassett from Afghanistan.. they were combatants!

a war Gerry adams helped bring to an end. btw

You gotta love the old "it was a war" line to justify murder.  Different story though when its armed IRA men killed on active service.

Personally I've no particular issue with what Adams said, it was a war and the IRA were at war with the RUC and the british army. I also do not whinge when the SAS or whoever shot IRA men who were unarmed and neither should republicans. I also have no interest in what the Israeli apologist Shatter (talk about real terrorists), the disgraced traitors from Fine Fail or the blueshirts have to say about it either.

shatter should stick to the porn books he'd know a bit more about it.
as micheal martin started in the dail yesterday about what 'he' thought I was hoping Gerry would answer I don't give a flying fuk what 'you' think you fukn traitor you put a generation of young irish people on the plane!

[deiseach]

as micheal martin started in the dail yesterday about what 'he' thought I was hoping Gerry would answer I don't give a flying fuk what 'you' think you fukn traitor you put a generation of young irish people on the plane!

Yeah, true sons of Erin put young Irish people in a box.

[deiseach]

I'm a bit surprised that SF are being so forthright in offering an opinion on this report. It's not just a case of them being asked questions that they've been asked - they've been quite happy to ignore the question asked in the past ("I condemn ALL violence"). Anyone got any theories on their angle? Trying to embarrass the Brits into having a proper inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane?

[lawnseed]

I'm a bit surprised that SF are being so forthright in offering an opinion on this report. It's not just a case of them being asked questions that they've been asked - they've been quite happy to ignore the question asked in the past ("I condemn ALL violence"). Anyone got any theories on their angle? Trying to embarrass the Brits into having a proper inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane?

monaghan and Dublin, finucane.. and on and on take your pick

[Applesisapples]

it amazes me how Irish civil servants working in Dublin castle in 1916 and for some time thereafter who supplied details of the names of British agents and spies to the IRA (who wasted no time in shooting them) are heroes now and whose relatives adorn jaomeebollix's liveline show every week applauded by the listening public on the state broadcaster. and now guards who 'may' have did the same thing are traitors..

get this in 1989 THERE WAS WAR HERE!! a filthy dirty war.. these two cops were killed in the war just like those poor guys in cemeteries in Flanders or the kids being flown back to Wotton bassett from Afghanistan.. they were combatants!

a war Gerry adams helped bring to an end. btw

"As far as Gerry Adams having referring to there being a war at the time, it was a war substantially created by the Provisional IRA."
Alan Shatter today, reflecting the views of the vast majority of Irish people on this island.

Myles, I think Adams is a liar and a liability. But Shatter shows his own ignorance of what went on here by those comments...but then not surprising from a Blueshirt. Adams would have been best served yesterday by saying absolutely nothing. At the end of the Day the Gardai are agents of the Irish Government and it was up to them to comment. Anything SF would say on the issue was going to annoy and rub salt in the wounds. Adams showed himself up as being completely hypocritical and out of touch. These guys might have been combatants but they were unarmed. They also may have contributed to their own deaths by using the same car that they had used for three years instead of availing of the "ghost cars" available to them which changed every three months. Alan McQuillan implied as much this morning. But they were unarmed and shot dead that is as wrong as Loughgall or any other British war crime...this appears to be lost on SF. We were all complicit in the war. The Brits and Unionists for the sectarian violence and blatant discrimination, the fruits of which still linger today in that catholic areas still fill the top ten spots for housing, social and economic need. The Irish Government for ignoring their Northern fellow citizens plight for decades in spite of the contribution made to the 26 by many Northerners. And of course the Provos who went beyond targeting the Brits and economic targets to killing their own countrymen whether unionist or nationalist. Having said all of that it still does not excuse the callous way in which Adams spoke about this yesterday.

[glens abu]

it amazes me how Irish civil servants working in Dublin castle in 1916 and for some time thereafter who supplied details of the names of British agents and spies to the IRA (who wasted no time in shooting them) are heroes now and whose relatives adorn jaomeebollix's liveline show every week applauded by the listening public on the state broadcaster. and now guards who 'may' have did the same thing are traitors..

get this in 1989 THERE WAS WAR HERE!! a filthy dirty war.. these two cops were killed in the war just like those poor guys in cemeteries in Flanders or the kids being flown back to Wotton bassett from Afghanistan.. they were combatants!

a war Gerry adams helped bring to an end. btw

"As far as Gerry Adams having referring to there being a war at the time, it was a war substantially created by the Provisional IRA."
Alan Shatter today, reflecting the views of the vast majority of Irish people on this island.

Myles, I think Adams is a liar and a liability. But Shatter shows his own ignorance of what went on here by those comments...but then not surprising from a Blueshirt. Adams would have been best served yesterday by saying absolutely nothing. At the end of the Day the Gardai are agents of the Irish Government and it was up to them to comment. Anything SF would say on the issue was going to annoy and rub salt in the wounds. Adams showed himself up as being completely hypocritical and out of touch. These guys might have been combatants but they were unarmed. They also may have contributed to their own deaths by using the same car that they had used for three years instead of availing of the "ghost cars" available to them which changed every three months. Alan McQuillan implied as much this morning. But they were unarmed and shot dead that is as wrong as Loughgall or any other British war crime...this appears to be lost on SF. We were all complicit in the war. The Brits and Unionists for the sectarian violence and blatant discrimination, the fruits of which still linger today in that catholic areas still fill the top ten spots for housing, social and economic need. The Irish Government for ignoring their Northern fellow citizens plight for decades in spite of the contribution made to the 26 by many Northerners. And of course the Provos who went beyond targeting the Brits and economic targets to killing their own countrymen whether unionist or nationalist. Having said all of that it still does not excuse the callous way in which Adams spoke about this yesterday.

Callous my arse,what was callous about it.You are talking like a blueshirt yourself.

[Applesisapples]

it amazes me how Irish civil servants working in Dublin castle in 1916 and for some time thereafter who supplied details of the names of British agents and spies to the IRA (who wasted no time in shooting them) are heroes now and whose relatives adorn jaomeebollix's liveline show every week applauded by the listening public on the state broadcaster. and now guards who 'may' have did the same thing are traitors..

get this in 1989 THERE WAS WAR HERE!! a filthy dirty war.. these two cops were killed in the war just like those poor guys in cemeteries in Flanders or the kids being flown back to Wotton bassett from Afghanistan.. they were combatants!

a war Gerry adams helped bring to an end. btw

"As far as Gerry Adams having referring to there being a war at the time, it was a war substantially created by the Provisional IRA."
Alan Shatter today, reflecting the views of the vast majority of Irish people on this island.

Myles, I think Adams is a liar and a liability. But Shatter shows his own ignorance of what went on here by those comments...but then not surprising from a Blueshirt. Adams would have been best served yesterday by saying absolutely nothing. At the end of the Day the Gardai are agents of the Irish Government and it was up to them to comment. Anything SF would say on the issue was going to annoy and rub salt in the wounds. Adams showed himself up as being completely hypocritical and out of touch. These guys might have been combatants but they were unarmed. They also may have contributed to their own deaths by using the same car that they had used for three years instead of availing of the "ghost cars" available to them which changed every three months. Alan McQuillan implied as much this morning. But they were unarmed and shot dead that is as wrong as Loughgall or any other British war crime...this appears to be lost on SF. We were all complicit in the war. The Brits and Unionists for the sectarian violence and blatant discrimination, the fruits of which still linger today in that catholic areas still fill the top ten spots for housing, social and economic need. The Irish Government for ignoring their Northern fellow citizens plight for decades in spite of the contribution made to the 26 by many Northerners. And of course the Provos who went beyond targeting the Brits and economic targets to killing their own countrymen whether unionist or nationalist. Having said all of that it still does not excuse the callous way in which Adams spoke about this yesterday.

Callous my arse,what was callous about it.You are talking like a blueshirt yourself.
Put youself in the plces of those families...callous. But you can't see that.

[fearglasmor]

Regardless of the argument, SF have committed political suicide with Adams statement and then compounded it with the performance on Vincent Brown last night.
Hypocritical or not the vast majority of people in the south have no interest in violence be it war or terrorism.

People, me for one, who had been warming a little to SF, in the belief that they had left the past behind have been shocked back into the cold reality of what SF really are.

Its a real pity, I thought they might develop into a credible alternative over time, but no votes from me Mr Adams.

[deiseach]

Regardless of the argument, SF have committed political suicide with Adams statement and then compounded it with the performance on Vincent Brown last night.
Hypocritical or not the vast majority of people in the south have no interest in violence be it war or terrorism.

People, me for one, who had been warming a little to SF, in the belief that they had left the past behind have been shocked back into the cold reality of what SF really are.

Its a real pity, I thought they might develop into a credible alternative over time, but no votes from me Mr Adams.

What made you think SF had abandoned the past? You only have to read the contributors here (accepting that none of them are members of SF; makes you wonder who is) to know that they are proud of that past.

[fearglasmor]

Regardless of the argument, SF have committed political suicide with Adams statement and then compounded it with the performance on Vincent Brown last night.
Hypocritical or not the vast majority of people in the south have no interest in violence be it war or terrorism.

People, me for one, who had been warming a little to SF, in the belief that they had left the past behind have been shocked back into the cold reality of what SF really are.

Its a real pity, I thought they might develop into a credible alternative over time, but no votes from me Mr Adams.

What made you think SF had abandoned the past? You only have to read the contributors here (accepting that none of them are members of SF; makes you wonder who is) to know that they are proud of that past.

Not abandoned, but were moving on from it. Seems not.

[deiseach]

Not abandoned, but were moving on from it. Seems not.

How would 'moving on' manifest itself? What would have been the appropriate response to the Smithwick tribunal?

[sheamy]

This argument is nothing new. At it's core, it's simply about people in uniform being more highly prized by state forces (on both sides of the border) than people in non-state forces. There would be no moral revulsion in the Dail and within the media following a review of the events at Loughgall which are pretty similar in nature to the events in this case. It comes down to, in BBC/RTE speak, 'police officers' and 'terrorists' and all that follows. Thankfully those days are mostly gone. Listening to the likes of Alan McQuillan and archive soundbites from Jack Herman on the radio again is a little chilling with all that is now known.

[Rossfan]

What did people expect Gerry to say?
" Absolutely disgraceful murder of two innocent police officers"
He might as well then add - the whole campaign of the ProvoIRA was "a disgraceful terrorist campaign"
What next - FG and FF to repudiate 1916 as a "disgraceful event by a bunch of extremists which must be condemend by all right thinking people"??
No doubt the Provos saw the killing of Breen/Buchanan as a good days work and Gerry as their leader( of the SF wing only of course) can hardly repudiate that.

[deiseach]

This argument is nothing new. At it's core, it's simply about people in uniform being more highly prized by state forces (on both sides of the border) than people in non-state forces. There would be no moral revulsion in the Dail and within the media following a review of the events at Loughgall which are pretty similar in nature to the events in this case. It comes down to, in BBC/RTE speak, 'police officers' and 'terrorists' and all that follows. Thankfully those days are mostly gone. Listening to the likes of Alan McQuillan and archive soundbites from Jack Herman on the radio again is a little chilling with all that is now known.

This is a good point. It's clear that the authorities in the North had their suspicions but there was Jack Herman dismissing the suggestion out of hand. It was politically expedient for everyone to turn a blind eye to collusion so where is the ordure for the politicians of the time for failing the Buchanan and Breen families?