Martin Mc Guinness is one of the great leaders of the modern times !

[4father]

The most impressive person in SF is without doubt Eoin Ó Broin. Perhaps too radical for the mainstream but has more talent in his little finger than most of the rest of the party.

Agreed 100%

[Maguire01]

I have to agree with you. The ability to convince all but a few republicans to settle for a lot less than they had been fighting for for years has improved the quality of life for just about everyone. That fact that the realisation that force wouldn't work took so long...

have to pick you up on that one fella.
As a blow in, you dont know the background there fella and have been caught listening to the hype and bs stories of 'what it was all about etc'.

"Fella"? Could you be any more patronising or condescending?
Does that fact that I wasn't born in the 6 counties mean I can't know what the background is?
Do SF members in the 26 counties not understand either? And by that logic, for example, is anyone who wasn't born in the Middle East unable to comment on the situation there?

My point is that it isn't 15 years ago since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

[lynchbhoy]

Jeez man , chill out - I was actually trying to convey a response of friendliness!!!

No offense, but your post to me indicated that your understanding of the background was way off.

Whatever about martins and beardy's predictions- I was commenting directly on your notion of what 'violence' was meant to achieve. Nothing more and nothing less. Apologies if you felt the reply was condescending as that was most def not the intent. While I don't think you have the correct grasp of yesteryears republican mindset, that's no big deal but I just wanted to give you what was the intent from my experience of back then.
I haven't forgotten the camera help so am not trying to be a funt!
Alright fella !!!

[Maguire01]

Fair enough.

And yes, i'm well aware of what triggered the start of the PIRA violence, but the goals of a 30 odd year campaign was not a settlement that ensured the constitutional status quo until the majority decide otherwise. It's not exactly 'Brits Out'. It's a compromise.

[lynchbhoy]

With respect , the Brits out goal came a long time after the fightback started.
The initial goal was to stop the persecution , oppression and systematic targeting of nationalist/Irish/ working class and to break the glass ceiling of second class citizenship and the establishments violent methods of doing this through 'legal' and pseudo legal gangs employed to do the dirty work in colusion with legal crown forces.
After a while, it was perceived that it would be easier to just rid the country of the Brits and their puppetmasters and warmongering lackeys as well as the old persecutional policies they retained to maintain the status quo and two tiered society.
So with a fairly equal six counties, the original requirement has been won. The Brits will leave at some stage ( their gov right of jurisdictional control that is) and reunification will take place.
But there is no rush on that. People can live normal lives now - and that is what people always wanted and indeed died for.
I just think you have listened to the media spin on this - and the spin has been dishing out incorrect facts intentionally for over four decades. So I can understand why people think this. Sinn Fein are
as bad themselves at the other end of this pr war!
I like a few of the sf ers, but there's a lot of sihte that is pushing me away from putting up with their statements etc.
Btw , there is no alternative. They are all sihte - north and south ... IMO

[lawnseed]

The most impressive person in SF is without doubt Eoin Ó Broin. Perhaps too radical for the mainstream but has more talent in his little finger than most of the rest of the party.

Agreed 100%

what about pearse?? although he seems to have gone off the boil since he got elected

[Ulick]

it
isn't 15 years since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort.

[4father]

The most impressive person in SF is without doubt Eoin Ó Broin. Perhaps too radical for the mainstream but has more talent in his little finger than most of the rest of the party.

Agreed 100%

what about pearse?? although he seems to have gone off the boil since he got elected

Yes Piaras is quite radical and he definitely impressed me.  Haven't heard too much from him.  Eoin is as left as SF members come which is probably why he isn't in any position of authority in the party.

[Ulick]

Eoin is as left as SF members come which is probably why he isn't in any position of authority in the party.

[lawnseed]

to be honest i'm less than impressed by the shinner performance south of the border.. tame and muted spring to mind

[ONeill]

I like a few of the sf ers, but there's a lot of sihte that is pushing me away from putting up with their statements etc.

? What on earth does that mean?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

to be honest i'm less than impressed by the shinner performance south of the border.. tame and muted spring to mind

Hard to oppose in the Republic what they implement in the North. Thats the problem with trying to ride two broncos at the same time.

[Evil Genius]

it isn't 15 years since Gerry and Martin were predicting a United Ireland by 2016. They've settled for a lot less. Either they were bluffing at the time, or we've seen the results of negotiation and compromise.

Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort.

Nothing of the sort? Or something of the sort...

BBC, 14th January 2000
Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams has predicted there could be a united Ireland in 16 years time.

Mr Adams made the comment to rousing applause at a rally for party supporters in New York on Thursday night.

He said the logic of the peace process would lead to unification – perhaps by the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising, which was seen a turning point for Irish nationalism.

"If we want to make progress then there is no reason whatsoever, from someone who has dealt with the unionists close up, who has dealt with the British close up, no reason why we cannot celebrate the 1916 Rising in the year 2016, in a free and united Ireland."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/601115.stm



And singing from the same hymnsheet three years later:

17/11/2003 - 17:53:41
McGuinness predicts 'united Ireland by 2016'

There could be a united Ireland by 2016, Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness predicted tonight.

With nine days left to Northern Ireland's Assembly Election, the Mid Ulster MP said at his party's manifesto launch republicans could attain their goal by the centenary of the 1916 Easter Rising.

"As we develop the north-south implementation bodies and people co-operate and work together, I think people will see more and more the logic of that," Mr McGuinness said.

"Certainly it is our view that it can be accomplished over a short period. Gerry Adams has said 2016 and I think that is achievable."
Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2003/1117/ireland/kfcwkfqlsney/#ixzz1XsgDNZYK


Unless, of course, I'm confusing those two characters with this one:

"Vice President Pat Doherty said Sinn Fein were aiming for a united Ireland by 2016 - the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising.

Speaking [in 2003] at a rally in Derry , Mr Doherty also hit out at the SDLP, claiming they had ditched their nationalist ideals."
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ireland+'will+be+united+in+15yrs'.-a072252114

Still, at least Pat's patter is more consistent than his Paddy accent, as this other statement from 2003 shows:
"A UNITED Ireland will be achieved in just over a decade, a senior Sinn Fein MP predicted yesterday.

Party vice president Pat Doherty said disillusioned Protestants would support Irish reunification.

A referendum is needed to unite the country, which was split in 1921 into the Catholic south and the Protestant dominated North.

West Tyrone MP Doherty said: "I have no doubt we are in a phase of Irish reunification. It will be in 12 years' time."
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-97867021.html


Of course, not every Shinner is/was quite so prescriptive. For example, as recently as December 2008, Conor Murphy seemed unable to make up his mind either way:

Mr Murphy added that reunification was not a spectator sport.

'We were accused of setting 2016 as the date for the hundred-year anniversary. It may take longer,' he said.

'I actually think it could happen sooner than that in reality...' "
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/united-ireland-referendum-poll-lsquoby-2016rsquo-14101007.html#ixzz1XsrmxWe2

Forked Tongues, eh, Donagh Ulick? 

[armagho9]

Alot of "coulds" and "hopes that it was achievable".  With the exception of Doherty there is no predictions as far as i can see.

Bit like saying Man Utd could win the champions league in the next five years.  Possible but not a prediction.

P.s,  sure its still only 2011

[Evil Genius]

Alot of "coulds" and "hopes that it was achievable".  With the exception of Doherty there is no predictions as far as i can see.

In response to an earlier claim that Adams and McGuinness had been "predicting a UI by 2016", Donagh Ulick replied "Nonsense, they predicted nothing of the sort".

I have provided direct quotations from both of them, plus from two other leading Shinners, demonstrating that SF had most definitely predicted something  of the sort.

And seeing as how all of this will doubtless have been faithfully reproduced in An Phoblacht at the time, then Donagh Ulick must surely have known* it, thereby betraying his lack of integrity. 


* - Unless, of course, he doesn't actually read the paper, only sells it...

Bit like saying Man Utd could win the champions league in the next five years.  Possible but not a prediction.

Leaving aside the fact that it's more like saying Rochdale  could win the Champions League in the next five years ("possible, but not a prediction"), your attempt to defend the SF leadership (deliberately?) misses the point.

Which was that in order to justify the direction in which they were leading their party, the leadership assured their followers that this (direction) would lead to a UI in the near future, possibly even by 2016.

As such, the leadership was at best naive, or at worst duplicitous and my money is firmly on the latter, since they (leadership) also undoubtedly had the nous to know that their ovine followers would be too thick to notice just what a crock of sh1t they (followers) were being sold.   

Still, getting back to the topic of the thread, I suppose this might count as "leadership" of a sort, even if it is firmly in the tradition of "The Grand Old Duke of York"...

P.s,  sure its still only 2011

On the basis that we must both be reasonably hopeful of surviving as far as 2016 to cash in/pay up, do you fancy a wee wager on it, then? 
(Proceeds to a Charity of the winner's choice, of course)