Integrated Education: Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

[screenexile]

I have no problem with it per se but I don't think I would send my kids there unless they really wanted to go.

I loved the School I went to and would want my kids to have the same experiences I had. Even in a Catholic Grammar we were always told to respect people of other faiths and were often involved in Cross Community events so I don't see how this is an issue really. What kind of school would be promoting sectarianism anyway??

Like I said I would have no problem with it if the School's standards were up to scratch and my kids really wanted to go there. As long as the4 kids are being well educated then I don't really see what the problem is.

[BennyCake]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

[gawa316]

Defo the way to go

[Ulick]

The "integrated sector" in NI - "holier-than-thou", "wouldn't Our Wee Country be great if we all got along", middle class types who bought into the myth that religion was the cause of all our ills. The simple fact is that no child is barred from any "state" or CCMS school and if there is a problem with sectarianism it doesn't come from the schools but from the parents and community. The sector now consist of schools populated mostly by children who can't get a place anywhere else or "state" schools who, due to falling numbers, have re-branded themselves as "integrated" in order to get extra support. Integrated education (in the true meaning of the expression) may be the further but "integrated education" is certainly not.

"myth that religion was the cause of all our ills"? I would have thought that it was about segregation of different communities - the religious element is only a detail of that. You say that sectarianism doesn't come from schools but from parents and the communities - that ignores the role that schools have in shaping communities and influencing the next generation of parents. And to say that no child is 'barred' from a specific sector is disingenuous and offers no solution.

Also, I don't understand your point about those in integrated schools only being there because they can't get get a place elsewhere. I've never heard that before and can't understand where that would be the case. What schools are these children being rejected from and why? You've already said that no child is barred from any school.

All schools should be state schools with 'religious education' at Sunday schools or equivalent.

Integration is the only way forward. We wouldn't accept different schools for black children and white children, so why accept the current scenario?

Obviously I meant no child is barred on the basis of religion, however most "integrated schools" don't use academic selection, so in a system dominated by academic selection, many will end up there as last resort.

[Maguire01]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

[Maguire01]

The "integrated sector" in NI - "holier-than-thou", "wouldn't Our Wee Country be great if we all got along", middle class types who bought into the myth that religion was the cause of all our ills. The simple fact is that no child is barred from any "state" or CCMS school and if there is a problem with sectarianism it doesn't come from the schools but from the parents and community. The sector now consist of schools populated mostly by children who can't get a place anywhere else or "state" schools who, due to falling numbers, have re-branded themselves as "integrated" in order to get extra support. Integrated education (in the true meaning of the expression) may be the further but "integrated education" is certainly not.

"myth that religion was the cause of all our ills"? I would have thought that it was about segregation of different communities - the religious element is only a detail of that. You say that sectarianism doesn't come from schools but from parents and the communities - that ignores the role that schools have in shaping communities and influencing the next generation of parents. And to say that no child is 'barred' from a specific sector is disingenuous and offers no solution.

Also, I don't understand your point about those in integrated schools only being there because they can't get get a place elsewhere. I've never heard that before and can't understand where that would be the case. What schools are these children being rejected from and why? You've already said that no child is barred from any school.

All schools should be state schools with 'religious education' at Sunday schools or equivalent.

Integration is the only way forward. We wouldn't accept different schools for black children and white children, so why accept the current scenario?

Obviously I meant no child is barred on the basis of religion, however most "integrated schools" don't use academic selection, so in a system dominated by academic selection, many will end up there as last resort.

Why would it be any more of a last resort than the local (segregated) non-grammar?

And what about the rest of my points?

[Orior]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

[BennyCake]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

There'd be a certain amount, but not enough emphasis or importance put on both.

[Tony Baloney]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

Might be relevant in a word without clubs.

[Maguire01]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

That's with the current system, where there's a half-hearted effort at integration, competing with the two established sectors. If the whole system was integrated then there's be just as many teams, if not more.

[BennyCake]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

That's with the current system, where there's a half-hearted effort at integration, competing with the two established sectors. If the whole system was integrated then there's be just as many teams, if not more.

Maybe its half-hearted because people can see through this integrated education crap.  By any chance, were you educated in the North?

[Tony Baloney]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

That's with the current system, where there's a half-hearted effort at integration, competing with the two established sectors. If the whole system was integrated then there's be just as many teams, if not more.

Maybe its half-hearted because people can see through this integrated education crap.  By any chance, were you educated in the North?

What is there to see through? Is there really something wrong with prods and Catholics being educated together?

[BennyCake]

What is there to see through? Is there really something wrong with prods and Catholics being educated together?

In Primary and Secondary education, yes.

[Tony Baloney]

How many Integrated schools are legally integrated, i.e. have at least 30% pupils from the local minority community?

How many have achieved the ideal of 40:40:10?

In N.Ireland many people live in areas with people of a similar religion and their children attend the local school which will usually cater for the people of the area.  This is a consequence of the nature of the N.Ireland's polarisation which was sharpened by 40 years of sectarian strife. 

After over twenty years of Integrated education less than 10% of all children attend Integrated schools despite the formation of such schools being a policy of the government through out this time.

How many Catholic schools prevent non-Catholic children from attending them?  None
How many state controlled schools prevent catholic children from attending them? None

Despite this, less than 5% of children attend schools considered outside their denomination and most of these are catholics attending non-denominational grammar schools?

Did schools cause the troubles and sectarian strife?  No.

Integration cannot be achieved until housing becomes integrated. In most towns, people live and socialise according to their religious denomination.

Non-Catholic children are welcome if they sign up to upholding the Catholic ethos I assume?!

[mylestheslasher]

What is there to see through? Is there really something wrong with prods and Catholics being educated together?

In Primary and Secondary education, yes.

I assume you went to a catholic school so which in itself seems a great advertisement for integration to me.