Six counties to lose 2 more players to the proper Ireland team

[lynchbhoy]

Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.
Typical news of course

No place for that whatsoever. Davis would stroll on to the free state team.

squad maybe, not team ! imo

[Applesisapples]

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

Not so that flag is always there because of the Rugby. They displayed quite clearly the unofficial Ulster flag for the anthems. But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team and Unionists will never stop flying the union flag or singing the sash.

[Applesisapples]

For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this 

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Oh really

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWP5Z6GTgY&feature=BFa&list=PL7340235AF2B8CC33&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1ONnyiPqw

Christ that Flower of Scotland hits the spot.

[brokencrossbar1]

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

Not so that flag is always there because of the Rugby. They displayed quite clearly the unofficial Ulster flag for the anthems. But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team and Unionists will never stop flying the union flag or singing the sash.

There will always be trouble so long as they are shitting in our shoes and we are pissing in their Bovril!

[Olaf]

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

[Applesisapples]

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

Probably not. It would appear that NI fans or IFA Fans if you prefer will not countenance a combined team. Nationalist will not support "The Province" or OWC.

[Olaf]

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

Probably not. It would appear that NI fans or IFA Fans if you prefer will not countenance a combined team. Nationalist will not support "The Province" or OWC.

.
.........or Northern Ireland

[lynchbhoy]

I can understand why the ni fans are saying the various htings.
Taking away the political backdrop and aspects, this is a group of people who are passionate about heir soccer team.
Its a bit like the wimbledon of old, where they ended up being sold and moving on - but the fans couldnt let go of their side and started up a new team to take their place.

I can see the future ni team being amalgamated with the Ireland side and the fai/ifa joining to make an AIF or something like that.
the two associations wont want to let go of their cushy roles either, so both fans and boards will be pushing for it.
I cna also see the ni fans creating a new club to play in the all Ireland local soccer league - so they can at least continue supporting 'their' team.

the talk about 'a country' , 'poaching', 'flags', 'anthems', 'symbols' etc is a bit disingenuous  (maybe with the best of intentions for some) - its not a country, we know that.If the two associations didnt want to keep their own wee strain of power, then Fifa would have had them amalgamate long ago.  a 'uk team' would be fine, we are looking for an 'Ireland' team !
nationalists/catholics/protestants that want to play for Ireland cannot be deemed as being 'poached' - this is the island of Ireland - at worst they can be seen as 'glory hunters'.
Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?

anyhow Ireland have improved with a lot of new young players. Will be stifled by Traps tactics I fear.
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

[haranguerer]

As I originally stated the boycott did relate to travel arrangements.  Incereasingly, however, it also related to the ongoing poaching issue.  I'm afraid you will have to believe me that this is the case.  If you look at the situation objectively, you could see that what I have say is plausible.

Given that we have travelled with many thousands of fans in recent years to far flung parts of Europe, do you really think that if there was not an issue with the FAI that we would not take more than 54 fans 100 miles down the road?

So now ni fans are boycotting everything organised by the FAI??? Wtf? The golaposts are being moved so much to suit whatever seems like a good excuse at the time its beyond a joke. Fact is NI are being hammered in evey game so the fans arent going down, but rather than admit perhaps they're not the greatest fans in the world after all, they're inventing boycotts and blaming everyone else, as usual.

Btw, hopefully being helpful rather than patronising, if you want to quote a reply, theres a quote button at the top right of the post, seems you've been writing them out?

[Olaf]

Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.

Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?

In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.

The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

[lynchbhoy]

???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.
Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?
In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.
The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

'borrowing' - as in the ni fans are using he same soccer supporting template as soccer fans in England and Scotland do. Blindly following their team week in week out, home or away.
its the culture there , but unheard of in Ireland - up until recently when the ni soccer team and its fans got themselves up like this.

I cant agree with you about the player poaching. whether there is compensation or not, its not what a young lad will be thinking of. they will use and abuse in order to progress their career.
they will take the first/closest club that will take them on to train them and get them noticed and jump from there.
Ni is effectively a big club. It would still be smaller in support and resources in comparison to most epl sides. Yer like the 'crewe' of the 'international' world.

yeah, teams will be up and down. ni may unearth some good talent yet.
Ireland seems to have done so recently. Some via granny rule.

However I think the ni team will eventually be gone - same as the Ireland team as we know it and be replaced by a unified Ireland side. That is the ultimate eventuality. The time is the only debatable !

[take_yer_points]

Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.

Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?

In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.

The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

Olaf,

I'm not going to go searching for a list of examples but Oliver Norwood has played underage for England. He now plays for northern ireland. Has compensation been paid to England for that defector? The answer to that could well be that it has been but I have no idea and am interested

[Main Street]

As for the boycott which another poster made reference to, he is correct in saying that the boycott did initially relate to the travel arrangements.  Shortly after those plans were made public, however, another defection (Devine of Preston) was announced.  Given that young Ferguson also seems likely to make the switch, the boycott increasingly became related to the divisive and frankly sectarian player poaching issue. 

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

The boycott was 95% about travel arrangements which were enforced after the antics of a hooligan element in the OWC support at the game against Scotland. Unfortunately the majority of the ordinary decent fans suffer for the actions of a few.
With some retrospective dexterity they managed to shove into the reasons for the boycott, the issue of NI players declaring for the FAI.

There is an astounding general level of ignorance in NI, amongst the fans of the OWC/IFA about the FIFA rules of eligibility, a blind stubborn refusal to accept that Irish citizens can chose to play for the FAI and that Irish citizens want to play for the team of the Republic.
National identity is not confined by borders, nor can another national identity be imposed by the creation of a border. Whilst the law of the land has to be obeyed, the constitutional rights of the individual to their legitimate identity can not be lawfully suppressed.

There is not the remotest possibility of the FIFA rules of eligibility being changed to restrict citizens playing for their representative team. The FAI is the only representative team for Irish nationals.   An Irish national can play for NI, only if they are British nationals.

[Banana Man]

boycott my hole - the truth is they were sh!te scared the guards would hammer them after their antics at the scotland game where they destroyed the capital catching everyone off guard

[michaelg]

This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?