Six counties to lose 2 more players to the proper Ireland team

[MW]

It looks pretty similar - tricolour to represent the Republic of Ireland, and (unofficial too of course) province of Ulster flag to represent the 9 county Ulster province feels like little better than a calculated snub, as well as being totally illogical; it would this be pretty similar to have a flag representing the UK (i.e. GB & NI) and one for the island of Ireland. (Would it really be too much for the IRFU to use the Ulster Banner, which represents Northern Ireland in the sporting arena? It was there at the Aviva in February, and it will fly alongside the Tricolour at the Aviva tomorrow night - the sky won't fall in.)

More fool me.

It just couldn't be that straightforward...

[Main Street]

The owc have to suffer more than a few heart attack indignant moments, like the national anthem mix up in the last away game 

[Dún Dún]

Serious craic to be had on the our wee country Facebook page. They were up in arms because the fai flew the true flag of ulster outside the aviva. It was eventually changed to the bastardised version.

Love the way it mentions on the page that bigotry on the page will not be tolerated. That's nice, loyalists spew venom upon the topics unchallenged yet when a fenion comes along they are classed as trolls and have all posts deleted.

Our* wee country

*No taigs allowed

[Milltown Row2]

Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.

Typical news of course

[MW]

Serious craic to be had on the our wee country Facebook page. They were up in arms because the fai flew the true flag of ulster outside the aviva. It was eventually changed to the bastardised version.

Love the way it mentions on the page that bigotry on the page will not be tolerated. That's nice, loyalists spew venom upon the topics unchallenged yet when a fenion comes along they are classed as trolls and have all posts deleted.

Our* wee country

*No taigs allowed

We have a live one

[saffron sam2]

Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.

Typical news of course

No place for that whatsoever. Davis would stroll on to the free state team.

[fitzroyalty]

Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

It wouldn't work wonders for me, given that I see Northern Ireland as my country, and my primary identity as Northern Irish.

I don't think rugby is a particularly good example - as has been demonstrated by southern nationalist chauvinism in the IRFU over flags and anthems.

Yet fans in their droves still come down from the North to support them. Obviously anthems/flags need looked at though in saying that the rugby crowd are a lot more tolerant than the soccer lot.

Would the opportunity to compete better at international level not be an incentive? Players to have better access to coaching, training, facilities etc etc.
Do you not think it important a more inclusive team be formed, rather than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest? Without compromising your Northern Irishness?

[MW]

Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

It wouldn't work wonders for me, given that I see Northern Ireland as my country, and my primary identity as Northern Irish.

I don't think rugby is a particularly good example - as has been demonstrated by southern nationalist chauvinism in the IRFU over flags and anthems.

Yet fans in their droves still come down from the North to support them. Obviously anthems/flags need looked at though in saying that the rugby crowd are a lot more tolerant than the soccer lot.

Hmm. Well as it currently stands, it's people from a unionist background tolerating the flag and anthem shenanigans at rugby matches, and some people from a nationalist background saying that flag and anthem are so much that they couldn't tolerate supporting NI. So you could cut it up a number of different ways according to your preference. But consider this - there's a reasonably considerable crossover between the NI football support and the Ulster/Ireland rugby support. Few are particularly enamoured with the idea of seeing their team abolished.

Would the opportunity to compete better at international level not be an incentive? Players to have better access to coaching, training, facilities etc etc.

"We" would be even better off in an all-UK team then!

Do you not think it important a more inclusive team be formed, rather than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest? Without compromising your Northern Irishness?

I know you mean well here but that line of argument really is infuriating. What you're essentially saying is that nationalists (or some/many nationalists at any rate), unlike non-nationalists, won't support the NI team, and instead choose to support the ROI team – primarily because they believe in an all-Ireland national entity and identity. So the response to that should be to do away with the NI team, and form an all-Ireland team in line with their political/national preferences? In the name of "inclusiveness"??
And by the way, your terminology "than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest" is completely arse about face. It's nationalists (or a section thereof) who despite coming from NI, choose to follow the ROI (and I recognize the reasons for doing so) – "the rest", not just Unionists, support Northern Ireland, because, well, they're from Northern Ireland. I know plenty of NI fans that don't give a toss about politics.
And how would you suggest abolishing the NI team and setting up an all-Ireland team could be done "without compromising [my] Northern Irishness" anyway?

[fitzroyalty]

Hmm. Well as it currently stands, it's people from a unionist background tolerating the flag and anthem shenanigans at rugby matches,

I was referring to Unionists, should have made that clearer.

and some people from a nationalist background saying that flag and anthem are so much that they couldn't tolerate supporting NI.

I think in many instances it goes beyond a flag and anthem.

So you could cut it up a number of different ways according to your preference. But consider this - there's a reasonably considerable crossover between the NI football support and the Ulster/Ireland rugby support. Few are particularly enamoured with the idea of seeing their team abolished.

The team wouldn't be abolished though, it would be amalgamated. There'd be no ROI and no NI.

"We" would be even better off in an all-UK team then!

Ok I think the mutual dislike for England rules that one out!

I know you mean well here but that line of argument really is infuriating. What you're essentially saying is that nationalists (or some/many nationalists at any rate), unlike non-nationalists, won't support the NI team, and instead choose to support the ROI team – primarily because they believe in an all-Ireland national entity and identity.

I can understand that but I'm really just trying to probe for an OWC perspective. I think there is merit in at least exploring the possibility. At least look at the huge positives first rather than the drawbacks (although ultimately drawbacks such as political preferences etc will win)

So the response to that should be to do away with the NI team, and form an all-Ireland team in line with their political/national preferences? In the name of "inclusiveness"??

What we currently have is two different teams. You support one depending on what foot you kick with (pardon the pun). As you go on to say below:

And by the way, your terminology "than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest" is completely arse about face. It's nationalists (or a section thereof) who despite coming from NI, choose to follow the ROI (and I recognize the reasons for doing so) – "the rest", not just Unionists, support Northern Ireland, because, well, they're from Northern Ireland. I know plenty of NI fans that don't give a toss about politics.

What we have is people from the North supporting a team ahead of fellas that may only live up the road from them. We both know the reasons why but to me it's a bit stupid.

And how would you suggest abolishing the NI team and setting up an all-Ireland team could be done "without compromising [my] Northern Irishness" anyway?

This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA.

[michaelg]

This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA. 

At the risk of repeating myself, the actions of the FAI the other night are not those of a forward thinking organisation which is aiming to respect all traditions on the island.  Whilst your ideas are laudable, although that does not mean I am in favour, they are also completely pie in the sky.  In addition, NI fans now, and with some justification, have nothing but contempt for the FAI.

[haranguerer]

As for the boycott which another poster made reference to, he is correct in saying that the boycott did initially relate to the travel arrangements.  Shortly after those plans were made public, however, another defection (Devine of Preston) was announced.  Given that young Ferguson also seems likely to make the switch, the boycott increasingly became related to the divisive and frankly sectarian player poaching issue. 

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

[michaelg]

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

As I originally stated the boycott did relate to travel arrangements.  Incereasingly, however, it also related to the ongoing poaching issue.  I'm afraid you will have to believe me that this is the case.  If you look at the situation objectively, you could see that what I have say is plausible.

Given that we have travelled with many thousands of fans in recent years to far flung parts of Europe, do you really think that if there was not an issue with the FAI that we would not take more than 54 fans 100 miles down the road?

[Olaf]

At the risk of repeating myself, the actions of the FAI the other night are not those of a forward thinking organisation which is aiming to respect all traditions on the island.  Whilst your ideas are laudable, although that does not mean I am in favour, they are also completely pie in the sky.  In addition, NI fans now, and with some justification, have nothing but contempt for the FAI.

In addition the actions/inaction of the IRFU in relation to the flags/anthems protocol for the  all island rugby team also  does very little to endear the idea of an all island football team to any NI supporters of a Unionist hue. Bear in mind that there are a large number of NI supporters who would also follow the Ulster and Ireland rugby team.

Both the IRFU and FAI have put the creation of a an all island football back years IMO.

[Rossfan]

.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?
[/quote]
Rugby issue = "whataboutery". The IRFU with their Ireland's call and Ulster flag make some effort to address the 2 political jurisdictions issue.( If a lot of people see the All Ireland symbol of the Tricolour ( 26 Cos State flag ,National flag of 45% of the 6 Cos population) as suitable for waving at rugby matches involving the All Ireland team that's their business. The UK State flag isn't a unique flag representing the 6Co area.)

The IFA make no effort to address the fact of 45% non British population in their area.
While they can't be responsible for the flags their team's followers bring to games they should surely be inclusive by dropping the UK Anthem and just fly the IFA crest flag. It might lead to less "defections" to the FAI too 
45 % of the populations of Italy,Holland,Germany are not seeking Union with adjoining States or look upon other flags as their National Flag. Their National flags irepresents the same area as their Soccer Association.

[AQMP]

For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this 

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Oh really

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWP5Z6GTgY&feature=BFa&list=PL7340235AF2B8CC33&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1ONnyiPqw