Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[Brick Tamlin]

Pauld123 you do us no favours constantly talkin the team up and being ridiculously over-confident. Your heads up yer arse if ye think that we have become world beaters inside 12 months, a dose of reality might be in order. You're either on the complete wind up tryin to get the orange brethern to bite (which they will duly do) or yer living in cloud cuckoo land if ye think Down are that much better than Armagh.

[David McKeown]

As for the Down players credentials, most of them have an All-Ireland minor medal as we won it in 1999 and 2005.

Minor All Ireland champions - Coulter, Murtagh, John Clarke, Doyle, Sexton from 1999 and Clarke, McComiskey, McCartan, Colgan, Fitzpatrick, Garvey, Duffin, McKernan. All these lads started in a final plus others have medals from the bench.

Ulster U21 champions - Kevin McKernan, James Colgan, Conor McGinn, Peter Fitzpatrick, Paul McComiskey, Kevin Duffin, Conor Garvey, Conor Laverty, Luke Howard,  Cathal Murdock, Kevin Anderson, Michael Magee and Paul Devlin.

All-Ireland U21 finalists - Murney, Fitzpatrick, Magee, Maginn, Devlin, McComiskey, Poland

CURRENT All-stars - Coulter, McVeigh, Clarke, & Hughes (not some award given years ago, sure Greg Blaney has three all stars but we're not planning on playing him in May)

CURRENT GPA Team of the year  -  Coulter, McVeigh, Clarke, McKernan, & Hughes

Nominated as CURRENT player of the year - Coulter

McDonnell was Player of the year 8 years ago - Not the same thing at all

As for All-Ireland club titles (give me a break) How many recent All-Ireland club champions come from counties that win the All-Ireland the same year (or indeed within 3-4 years)? Antrim (St Galls) were champions in 2009 so how come Antrim aren't storming county football? Because it is a very poor correlation! It hasn't happened since your own victory back in 2002!

However the above just shows that comparing badges is totally meaningless. If you go down the route of comparing badges everyone just ends up pulling awards from everywhere and each roll call looks as convincing as the other in its own rights. But it is irrelevant what has happened in the past. All that matters is the current team standard, not their standard 2,5 or 10 years ago.

I am surprised you have so many 13 AI medals tbh I didnt realise it was that high. Honest question would all those players make the starting 15 come May?  My guess is there is at least 18 All Ireland medals in inter-county football in the hopeful/probable starting 15 for Armagh but couldnt give an exact figure.

Lets not get started about Ulster medals as the current Down team would simply not match up

The difference between Blaney and the players I pointed out is our players are now by and large in what would be the prime footballing years of their career, Blaney isn't.

The difference between St Galls and Cross is also quite stark, Cross players are mixing with players who have already been successful in other teams, St Galls players would be the only comparatively successful players in the Antrim team.

I dont agree that standard two years ago has no bearing on standard now, with the exception of McDonnell and Hearty the other players on the Armagh team are all around the historic prime age for footballers (25-28) they didnt become poor footballers over night.  So to once again state my point for me Armagh have the players who are good enough to compete for trophies and win them and have proved that playing in other teams before the current Armagh set up but Armagh do not have the team as a collective unit and for me blame for that must fall squarely at the door of management

[NP 76]

 Not one bit of this info that David or Paul is stating will matter come May all in the past no matter how many medals that you all drag .Manys a man won an All Ireland and never kicked a ball as for All stars a total waste of time because not all the players that get them always deserve them this has got like a cat fight but for alll that the shape that Blaneys in he could still do a job

[David McKeown]

Not one bit of this info that David or Paul is stating will matter come May all in the past no matter how many medals that you all drag .Manys a man won an All Ireland and never kicked a ball as for All stars a total waste of time because not all the players that get them always deserve them this has got like a cat fight but for alll that the shape that Blaneys in he could still do a job

Ok so if quality of player doesnt matter and quality of manager doesnt matter, what exactly will matter come May?

[Brick Tamlin]

probably a refereeing error id say.

[Banana Man]

Not one bit of this info that David or Paul is stating will matter come May all in the past no matter how many medals that you all drag .Manys a man won an All Ireland and never kicked a ball as for All stars a total waste of time because not all the players that get them always deserve them this has got like a cat fight but for alll that the shape that Blaneys in he could still do a job

Ok so if quality of player doesnt matter and quality of manager doesnt matter, what exactly will matter come May?

for what it's worth i can't see there being much between the 2 teams, there's not light years between them as some from both sides would like to believe, there would however be a healthy confidence on both sides which is no bad thing.

as for the medals and past glories - the old adage ''you're only as good as your last/next (delete as appropriate) game'' - there are proven winners on both teams

i would say it will come down to the night, who's available, who's injured, who's suspended, who has a good day at the office, who doesn't, who the referee is, what the pitch/weather is like etc, i would expect it to be a very tight affair with a slice of paper between the 2 sides

[NP 76]

The amount of previous medals all stars or how many hot dinners they had over the cold  spell will matter its all in the PAST it will all be what happens on the day not when Stevie or Benny was nominated for player of the year award. Brick i hope it doesnt go to a refferee decision we still have the Kildare ones crying about that one last year.

[Donnellys Hollow]

The amount of previous medals all stars or how many hot dinners they had over the cold  spell will matter its all in the PAST it will all be what happens on the day not when Stevie or Benny was nominated for player of the year award. Brick i hope it doesnt go to a refferee decision we still have the Kildare ones crying about that one last year.

[Donnellys Hollow]

And there were three dubious decisions BTW!! 

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

And there were three dubious decisions BTW!! 

This thread is all your lot's fault anyway. You stole Geezer and won't give him back. 

[Applesisapples]

Apples, The current Down team has no pedigree at senior county level as they have won nothing yet. But that doesn't mean that Armagh have. David McKeown was roll calling your team alleging pedigree based on Hogan cup, University, minor and U21 success. Down has that same success and so if that's pedigree then we have pedigree too.

Armagh has one county All-Ireland champion (McDonnell) until it is proven that R.Clarke can return. That is hardly pedigree for the current team.

So if schools and under-age is pedigree then Down have as much pedigree as Armagh

If All-Ireland finals is pedigree then Down have more than Armagh cause more of our players have played in won

If history is pedigree then Down have spades more than Armagh

May 28th, when you are looking up your guide book to find out how to get to your first round qualifier in the Midlands, you can reflect on how much pedigree Armagh have.

You will note that I didn't claim it had pedigree, I just said that Wobbler had no room to talk given Down's recent history.

[Applesisapples]

Don't you just love the confidence rolling down from the Mournes like mist. Hopefully the bright summer sun will see it off!!

[PAULD123]

However the above just shows that comparing badges is totally meaningless. If you go down the route of comparing badges everyone just ends up pulling awards from everywhere and each roll call looks as convincing as the other in its own rights. But it is irrelevant what has happened in the past. All that matters is the current team standard, not their standard 2,5 or 10 years ago.

As I said the roll call thing is just a load of hot air. Must say, I am fascinated by how readily people will take up a childish argument just because someone else makes it. Good fun for me anyway!

But on a serious note (and this one isn't a wind up like before) I do believe that we will win and I am entitled to my opinion. It is not based on ridiculous over confidence it is based on reasonable confidence. Currently we are playing better than Armagh. Our boys have a system in place and are working at it with clear progress. Armagh patently do not have their players playing to a system that gets the best out of them (hence this thread). The two sets of players are roughly similarly talented. Thus my conclusion is that I expect us to win as, on the day, we should be the team that is getting the most out of our players. It's a fairly simple conclusion and not boastful or over-confident. It is not arrogant or foolish.

I don't think that opinion is unreasonable. I also don't believe in dishonesty to save face, I've no time for cute hoorism. I think we will win and i am willing to stick my neck out an say it.

Finally on the subject of this thread - As I just wrote above, the reason I think we will win is in no small part to the fact that I see our team as better prepared and organised than the similar Armagh. Therefore I think we will win in no small part due to the inadequacies of the POR. In my opinion POR is a bluffer and a poor manager. The only thing remaining is to say whether or not he should be sacked. I think probably not, because as of now you have no reasonable alternative. If you find one then maybe yes he should be replaced. Basically he may not be the best man for the job but he is the best man right now!

[stew]

Armagh are going to be alright against down, it is a massive game but we have the Cross men back in the fold and I am told we will have Clarke back which is huge if he is sharp, I think it will be tight but I fancy us to nick it in the end.

It is good to see Down emerge again, I was almost starting to feel sorry for them.

[NP 76]

Stew i would say it was the same sort of sorry as we had for Armagh over a lifetime