Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[thewobbler]

applesisapples, it's not shit, let alone Down shit.

Your man was roll calling your team as being up there with the best on paper, and using successes as a marker. When it was pointed out to him that 10 teams around the country can boost equal or better medal hauls at other ranks in the game, then he referred back to All Ireland pedigree as Armagh's credentials. One All Ireland, 10 years ago, is not a pedigree, and is about as relevant to the current Armagh team's chances of success, as the timing of the next missile launched on Libya.

[Banana Man]

applesisapples, it's not shit, let alone Down shit.

Your man was roll calling your team as being up there with the best on paper, and using successes as a marker. When it was pointed out to him that 10 teams around the country can boost equal or better medal hauls at other ranks in the game, then he referred back to All Ireland pedigree as Armagh's credentials. One All Ireland, 10 years ago, is not a pedigree, and is about as relevant to the current Armagh team's chances of success, as the timing of the next missile launched on Libya.

   

wobbler has a point, drop the siege mentality lads, as i have said, underage success does not equate to senior success, how many of that minor team is playing senior intercounty football at the minute?

it's the same at club level, if you get 6 or 7 lads through from any good minor team to replicate that at senior level then you have excelled.

[DuffleKing]

There are far more senior intercounty medals in the current armagh squad than the down one. i don't know where (as usual) the air of superiority mixing with the stench of the clanrye river is coming from.

This thread has far too many people commenting with conviction about the potential of armagh when they know nothing of armagh club and underage football.

[Brick Tamlin]

Its like talkkin to the wall

[Banana Man]

There are far more senior intercounty medals in the current armagh squad than the down one. i don't know where (as usual) the air of superiority mixing with the stench of the clanrye river is coming from.

This thread has far too many people commenting with conviction about the potential of armagh when they know nothing of armagh club and underage football.

and What?? how many have ulster senior medals? i would say no more than 6 or 7, achieved during the dying embers of the best armagh team ever that you's had had, they got together for one last hooray with mcgrane et al and won their medals as part of the last throes of a dying animal, now that they are asked to stand on their own 2 feet they can't do it.

In simple they aren't good enough and you try to blame PO'R for all these inadequacies.

Your eloquent use of language regarding the clanrye illustrates how rattled you are and how the truth is hurting you

as Brick says, just like a wall

[thewobbler]

There's actually few and far comments on this thread about Down football by Down men, and even fewer again that suggest Down are a better team, and fewer again that we're destined for success. The paranoid Armagh folk just can't talk about their own county without bringing other counties into a muckfest.

If you want to talk Down, then we should be a better team this year than last. Swagger does goes a long way in football, and the class of '99 showed their first signs of swagger in a decade last year. Players who have evolved as pivotal forces like Clarke, Poland, McKernan and King, should only be better players for the year of experience under their belts. Big Dan is now a serious option at full-back against some teams. The older outfield players have not yet hit 30, apart from Rafferty and should still have the legs for hard pitches. Maginn, Fitzpatrick and McComiskey could be this year's springers.  And without meaning to sound like an Armagh fan, if we can get Rogers and Doyle returning from injury at 80% of their potential, it brings untold class to the team.

The flipside of this is that we may never get an easier run through the qualifiers again, I really wouldn't fancy taking on Kerry again if Galvin and O'Se were playing, while the other semi-finalists from last year all look a little bit stronger and clinical this season; meaning last year's performances wouldn't be good enough to make a final.

But then again I don't expect Down to win the All Ireland this year. I'd love an Ulster, but that's almost as tough to win. So long as they are playing to their level, and not leaving it behind in the changing room, I'm always happy with Down.

[Throw ball]

I know I shouldn't but.....I do not know any Armagh supporters who think they will win the All Ireland this year. And of the fifteen starters who played against Kerry 12 have Ulster chamionship medals and 1  Connaught medals, 6 have division 1 league medals and 13 division 2 league medals. Of the Cross players to come in all will have All Ireland medals. This may not mean definite future success but it does help give a foundation. If it didn't matter at all then Kilkenny could win the All Ireland in the next 5 years - in football! In the end of the day there is not a great deal of difference between Armagh and Down, although wobbler is right the swagger Down possess will bring them on.

[Scarface]

Armagh have players from AI Club champions Crossmaglen to call on soon. They also have some other very talented players in the team already. The team is full of players who have contested finals and won them. Having high expectations for that team is not unrealistic at all. Anything less would be underselling ourselves.

[borderfox]

Its great to see the old Armagh/Down rivalry bubbling away....

[orchard 8195]

Joe Brolly hit the nail on the head in his article in the Gaelic Life outlining Armagh's deficiencies. McGurn is getting a pile of money thrown at him and what the fluck does he know about Gaelic Football. I know people are going to say that he is in there as a strength and conditioning coach but i know for a fact that between him and that sean o'hare man they take all the training. I think that not only Paddy O'Rourke is useless but the whole backroom staff 2. Has anyone heard which cross men are being taken onto squad? If SK isnt on the squad (which i expect he wont) it will be an absolute joke and def a decision made by muratgh who was nvr fussed on him while over cross.

[mackers]

Its great to see the old Armagh/Down rivalry bubbling away....

It sure is..........can't wait for the 28th of May............

There's actually few and far comments on this thread about Down football by Down men

That's the problem, the thread has been inundated with Down men talking about Armagh football, a subject they think they know about but don't really, your suggestion of sticking with Peter McDonnell being a case in point!!!

[David McKeown]

David, The problem probably lies not with your good players (who are the equal of many top players) but in the additional players that surround them.

Cork have some star players, as do Kerry, Down, Dublin, Tyrone. But when you take the star players out of a team only Cork and Kerry still have serious quality. Armagh support players aren't as great as you make them sound. Take out McDonnell, Clarke & Clarke and I can't see any of the rest being wanted by Cork for the first team (maybe for the bench yes). Same with Down, take away Hughes, Coulter, Clarke and maybe Gordon and I can't see Cork or Kerry being jealous of what's left.

Armagh are though a top 10 side, deserve to be in division 1 and should be expecting to challenge for Ulster title. Far too early to talk about an All-Ireland.

I am sure you are not unrealistic but your message makes it sound like you are. Sounds like your billing Armagh as having the best players in Ireland and POR's job should be easy. It's not easier than any other manager in the top ten teams and the talent isn't better. Having said that he is a bluffer, uses the same excuses, can't get his defence working as efficiently as Down have with similar (possibly marginally less) talent. But he doesn't have a team which is nearly as talented as a lot of people here have tried to make out.

I don't for a second think Armagh have the best players in Ireland but I do think in terms of individual quality we have a squad that's certainly up there with the best, and on paper at least should provide a manager with a foundation for at least creating a competitive team.  At the minute I feel our team as a unit is at best average and no where near the level required to compete for a trophy.  I dont accept this is down to a lack of talent in the county. You mention Cork and Kerry only really wanting three players (Id imagine Kerry would kill for a McKeever) tbh id only want three or four of there players to substantially improve Armagh as well.  My point is basically that as a team Armagh are far far away from the likes of Cork and Dublin and the other top teams but in terms of individual talent they are certainly well up there as has been shown when these same players have been involved either with other teams or in the Kernan era Armagh teams.

[David McKeown]

I take the point that other counties have pedigree but with the exception of maybe Cork, Kerry and Tyrone I dont think any have as much consistent pedigree as we do

is there a great big bubble around Armagh whereby everything looks bigger in the inside and smaller outside? Yes, almost every player in the Armagh team has a medal of note. But this is the rule, not the exception, of top teams. Run through the Tyrone, Derry, Down, Cork, Kerry, Meath, Dublin, Kildare, Mayo and Galway teams and there'll hardly be a player without an AI appearance or medal of some description. Just because your county has a mammoth one minor title and one u-21 title, you guys think it's an exceptional feat. Row with the tide lads ffs.

Ill ceede that maybe Galway should have been included in my list of teams with similar pedigree but not the rest.  Since 2000 only Armagh, Tyrone, Cork, Galway and Kerry have won AI titles at U21, Minor and Senior level so to suggest that Derry, Down, Meath, Dublin, Kildare would have the same calibre in the squad is in my opinion just wrong

catch a grip ffs, nearly everyone on that Down team would have won all ireland medals witht he minor teams that won over the last 12 years, plus a runners up medal in the u21 final combined with a senior all ireland final appearance last year. Just because you's won a minor all ireland a few years back does not guarantee success, look at Down's AI winning minor team of '99, they toiled in the wilderness at senior level for years, you's seriously need to adjust your expectations.

The main man on that armagh AI minor success was a wee lad McVerry - where is he now???

If it was just a recent all ireland minor win then Id agree with you but its the fact that the current squad is made up from a mixture of successful players from previous county senior teams, a ai winning under 21 team, an AI winning minor team and highly successful multiple ai winning club side.  The down minor win of 99 came when your county was in a different position I thought in so far as they were expected to provide the back bone for the senior team.  Ours wasn't it was expected solely to build on what was already there.

[David McKeown]

applesisapples, it's not shit, let alone Down shit.

Your man was roll calling your team as being up there with the best on paper, and using successes as a marker. When it was pointed out to him that 10 teams around the country can boost equal or better medal hauls at other ranks in the game, then he referred back to All Ireland pedigree as Armagh's credentials. One All Ireland, 10 years ago, is not a pedigree, and is about as relevant to the current Armagh team's chances of success, as the timing of the next missile launched on Libya.

I think I said that maybe four counties could post similar or better medal hauls not ten with the greatest amount of respect to teams like Kildare, Mayo, Meath etc their players wouldn't have similar medal hauls from other teams prior to their respective current setups.  However they are now playing in better senior teams and for me the main reason for that is because of the quality of manager in place in recent years.

[mackers]

applesisapples, it's not shit, let alone Down shit.

Your man was roll calling your team as being up there with the best on paper, and using successes as a marker. When it was pointed out to him that 10 teams around the country can boost equal or better medal hauls at other ranks in the game, then he referred back to All Ireland pedigree as Armagh's credentials. One All Ireland, 10 years ago, is not a pedigree, and is about as relevant to the current Armagh team's chances of success, as the timing of the next missile launched on Libya.

I think I said that maybe four counties could post similar or better medal hauls not ten with the greatest amount of respect to teams like Kildare, Mayo, Meath etc their players wouldn't have similar medal hauls from other teams prior to their respective current setups.  However they are now playing in better senior teams and for me the main reason for that is because of the quality of manager in place in recent years.

That was just wobbler getting his facts wrong again..............although you are being unfair when you say that Mayo and Meath players are playing in better senior teams than our players. You are right with Kildare though.