Will you vote for Fianna Fail?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Obviously a properly constituted survey then, unlike Joe Duffy's phone-in. It'd dislocate your brain to contemplate the idea that one in eight adults in this country think that buffoonish crook would make a suitable president.

Then again if you take in people over 70 who have little to lose @ this stage who are lost in the ideology (which in fact is not ideology, but a vague idea) of Fianna Fail & top business people linked in parasitic way to FF (perhaps FF is the parasite on them), then you surely have 12% of the population.

Not so long ago Bertie got a great response in Roscommon, thats a county with a good Fine Gael base, a county that has long been ignored by the FF state, a county in deep need of investment, a county with their hospital services being removed. So taking that into context you can hardly be surprised that he has support in his home base of Drumcondra or in traditional FF heartlands.

I remember when Bertie was leaving one of his cheerleaders Ray the fcking off out of Ireland before the end of Spring D'Arcy more or less turned Today FM into the "We love Bertie" station.

Of course there was last years Late Late Show interview, where Ahern was allowed to riducle his ex-political opponents but was given carte blanch by Tubridy Ogra FF & cheered on by the crowd.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.)

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

Michael D would be my choice there. No way I'd vote Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, to many FF conections. There again we fall for the old celebrity no matter how much we claim not to. I'd like to see someone like Justin Kilcullen. Someone who will challenge Ireland to improve our imput into international affairs and demand the same of others. At the minute the President represents Ireland abroad by looking nice and being polite. I'd rather see someone who would tell Israel to sod off or tell Uganda to stop buying guns and build some schools rather than look good and be polite. Michael D would be the best of the bunch so far.

I could be wrong but I don't think the remit of the president allows them to make such statements to Israel or Uganda. I like Norris. He's a nice guy and I think he'd be a good embassador for Ireland. He might not be too welcome in the middle east mind you...

Your not supposed to but our half American, English born President Erskine Childers tried too before his unforunate death in office

[Nally Stand]

Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.)

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

You would like the Irish President to be someone who regards the 26 counties as a priest ridden potato republic and, to use a direct quote, a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-cultural, mono-ethnic State," and to be a man who did his best to thwart any prospect of peace and powersharing in the occupied counties, and who bitterly opposed the announcement of the Saville Inquiry? The Nobel Peace prize lost ALL credibility the day they decided that man was deserving of it.

Just when I think you are the nearest to a respectable FG'er that I've ever met, you come out with something like that.

[muppet]

Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.)

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

No doubt you would have suggested the likes of Seanie Fitzpatrick last time out. We never learn.

[seafoid]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0113/breaking4.html

irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 13:00Cowen's position under threat ahead of FF meeting

Speculation is growing in Leinster House that a motion of no confidence in Mr Cowen may be tabled by backbenchers at a crunch Fianna Fail parliamentary party meeting this afternoon.Related
Cowen confirms FitzPatrick talks | 09/01/2011Cowen denies impropriety in dealings with FitzPatrick | 10/01/2011Full text of Alan Gray statement | 13/01/2011Cowen discussed economy at dinner | 13/01/2011Taoiseach does not recall if Anglo issue discussed | 13/01/2011Sinn Fein's sucker punch takes the wind out of Taoiseach but no doubt he's forgotten it already | 13/01/2011Gilmore repeats economic treason charge | 13/01/2011IRISH TIMES REPORTERS

Taoiseach Brian Cowen's position is looking increasingly under threat following further revelations about his contacts with Anglo Irish Bank officials in the lead-up to the controversial bank guarantee in September 2008.

Speculation is growing in Leinster House that a motion of no confidence in Mr Cowen may be tabled by backbenchers at a crunch Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting this afternoon. The meeting was due to be held this morning but was postponed until 3pm at the last minute.

The meeting was arranged after requests from some TDs earlier this week and after more details of his dinner with former Anglo chairman Seán FitzPatrick at the Druids Glen golf complex in Co Wicklow in July 2008 emerged.

Fianna Fáil backbencher Mary O'Rourke dismissed the speculation, saying talk of a leadership heave was wide of the mark. "It's far too late. I hate saying it but we are where we are," she told Newstalk radio.

"We are so near a general election that it would be futile I think to go changing anything." Eighteen signatures of TDs and Senators are required to force a vote on the party leadership.

Mr Cowen told the Dáil yesterday "a big slowdown in our economy" had been discussed at the meal, but the affairs of the bank did not arise.

In response to a question from Sinn Féin Dáil leader Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, who happened to be at Druids Glen for a function on the same date, Mr Cowen disclosed that after his game with Mr FitzPatrick and Fintan Drury, who had stood down as a director of Anglo a few months earlier, they were joined for dinner by three other people.

These were Gary McGann, the chief executive of Smurfit Kappa who was a director of Anglo at the time, Alan Gray, an economic consultant who was on the board of the Central Bank, and a third man who was the Taoiseach's Garda driver.

Mr Cowen said the golf outing and lunch were organised by Mr Drury, an old friend of his.

"It was about being able to sit down with people at the end of the day and having a chat about the economy.

"The deputy will recall we had a mini-budget and saw recession on the horizon and a big slowdown in our economy," he told Mr Ó Caoláin.

"As Taoiseach, I was there chatting to see if there were ideas and to find out other people's views of things and to see if things could be done which might be helpful. As the deputy will know, those people would have some views on that. That was basically the total sum of it."

Last night, Mr Gray, who is managing partner of Indecon economic consultants, issued a statement confirming he was invited to attend an informal dinner with the Taoiseach at Druids Glen on July 28th, 2008. "The purpose of the invitation was to provide independent ideas to stimulate economic growth and to reduce unemployment in Ireland." He said those present were Mr Cowen, Mr FitzPatrick, Mr Drury, Mr McGann and the Taoiseach's driver. It was the first time he had met Mr Fitzpatrick.

"At no time when Mr Gray was present at the dinner was there any discussion of banking issues or of Anglo Irish Bank or any related matters. The discussion focused exclusively on initiatives to encourage new small indigenous firms, and measures to attract additional investment to Ireland and other responses to unemployment," the statement said.

Mr Ó Caoláin said last night the Taoiseach's credibility was now in tatters. "How are we expected to believe that the crisis in Anglo Irish Bank was not discussed at Druids Glen when the Taoiseach dined with Anglo chairman Seán FitzPatrick as well as one of Anglo's board of directors, Gary McGann, and Alan Gray, a director of the Central Bank appointed by Mr Cowen, as finance minister, in 2007?"

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said Fianna Fáil had brought the country to a point where it "simply is not working".

[Declan]

Strong rumour that Cowen will announce he's stepping down and an election will be called next week. Almost impossible to call @ this stage.

Kevin Doyle Herald

I'm reliably informed from someone inside Leinster House that 18 backbenchers have definitely signed the form as required. In terms of a heave Martin is not on board yet, Hanafin is, and nobody knows the story with Lenihan who is in Stormont today

[Rossfan]

The scumbags think dumping the Biff will save their sad cowardly skins it seems. 

Why don't they do like their mates Fingers , Drumm etc and just fcuk off to hell out of our Country 

[Lone Shark]

Tactics again. Fianna Fáil's strategy before this was to ride out the tide and hope that the world economy would pick up and bring us with it, and then claim credit for it. Then the world economy started to improve and we got worse, so it became the fault of the banks.

Now it's coming out that the banks and FF were basically on the same page and working in cahoots, so the only strategy left is to pull a little sleight of hand trick and claim that they are disowning the FF that caused all the problems, and that there is a new option, some sort of FF-nua that has no responsibility for the mistakes of the past, had nothing to do with them, but remarkably, has learned from them.

The grand plan was to probably do this after the election, but the problem with this strategy is that it means that a lot of the sitting TD's get toasted and then get to be forever remembered as part of the bad guy generation - so they're trying to save themselves by moving things along a lot quicker than would have been the plan. Plus, and here's the beautiful little land mine, the finance bill doesn't get passed because we have an election. All the more bad news for the next government to deliver.

Win-win situation, as long as the best interests of the Irish people doesn't figure on your radar.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.)

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

You would like the Irish President to be someone who regards the 26 counties as a priest ridden potato republic and, to use a direct quote, a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-cultural, mono-ethnic State," and to be a man who did his best to thwart any prospect of peace and powersharing in the occupied counties, and who bitterly opposed the announcement of the Saville Inquiry? The Nobel Peace prize lost ALL credibility the day they decided that man was deserving of it.

Just when I think you are the nearest to a respectable FG'er that I've ever met, you come out with something like that.

Ahhhh Nally Stand, I can fish too, lol 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.)

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

No doubt you would have suggested the likes of Seanie Fitzpatrick last time out. We never learn.

My only serious list was the first line, yet I would bump Christine Nobel to the serious list if I thought she would actually be interested. Adi Roache already had a go.

Always had a lot of time for Proinsias De Rossa but not sure he would be right for President. Despite having David Trimble in there as a bit of a fishing exercise I do admire how he put his political career & position in his community at risk to help secure peace.

[Nally Stand]

Fishing. Of course.

Despite having David Trimble in there as a bit of a fishing exercise I do admire how he put his political career & position in his community at risk to help secure peace.

The vice versa of that is how I'd imagine most nationalists in the six counties would remember David Trimble. He repeatedly put peace at risk for the sake of his career and for the sake of fending off increasing support for the DUP. The british government were all to happy to assist in these "Save Dave" campaigns by providing him with the ability to, and supporting him in, vetoing any chance of genuine lasting progress during his time in leadership.

Another of David (Nobel Peace Prize winner) Trimble's reflection on the 26 counties:
"If you took away Catholicism and anti-Britishness, the State (the Irish Republic) doesn't have a reason to exist."
                                                                                                                                      D. Trimble

[lawnseed]

yeah. good ol davy the 'portadown prancer' and now a british envoy to israel days after he joined the 'friends of israel'. mayo leave the fishing to the donegal men.
michael dee for me he was brilliant one evening on the 'right hook' he took on hooks regular right wing yank contributor whose name escapes me and blew him away i was impressed

[Lone Shark]

Okay, now surely we have reached a level where even the most dyed in the wool FFer must say enough? Essentially we have a newspaper (The Daily Mail) claiming that Brian Cowen went outside of his terms of reference and spoke the the NTMA about investing our money in a bank he knew to be insolvent. Based on all the evidence so far, plus the fact that the govt side can't get their story straight on anything (Cowen - it was a social event. Coughlan - it was a fundraiser. Grey - it was a meeting on employment creation), believing the idea that Cowen did not know about Anglo being under water is essentially stretching credibility to the same level as Bertie did with his "won it on the horses" schite.

I actually can't find a parallel in the free world for this. I'm not being flippant, but I'd say if there is any society worth saving in this country, then Cowen must surely be looking at jail time. Not soon, not without a long tribunal process, but eventually this has to be worth a long stretch behind bars. This is essentially the worst crime in the history of the state.

Please, please, please tell me that there's no-one left out there on this board who would still vote for them? 

[Declan]

Please, please, please tell me that there's no-one left out there on this board who would still vote for them

Unfortunately LS I think there are still people who will put number 1 beside the FF candidate. The thing "normal" people forget is that FFer's are genetically predisposed to do so and nothing and I mean nothing will deter them. Think Taliban fundamentalists or minute men militia and you'll get a similar mindset

Jaysus - just listening to Frank Fahey on the radio  - unreal stuff. If I hear the phrase "Brian Cowen is a man of the upmost integrity" once more I'll burst someone. The party , the party, the party is all that matters

[seafoid]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0114/1224287488486.html

The Irish Times - Friday, January 14, 2011
Fianna Fáil has lost its faith

THERE IS something quite unusual and unprecedented happening within Fianna Fáil which has never been witnessed before in the party's long history. It must seem bizarre to many of its thousands of members and supporters; to others, grotesque. Fianna Fáil has lost confidence in itself as the national movement which has governed this State, more often for good than bad when difficult decisions on contraception, divorce and the Northern Ireland peace process had to be made in this generation. But now there is abundant evidence that Fianna Fáil has lost its faith. It is in a state of unprecedented crisis.
There was never a general election campaign where Fianna Fáil did not assert publicly - despite what it might believe privately - that it could win and form the next government. It is understandable, given the succession of opinion polls, that it would feel it was destined for opposition on this occasion. But it has no strategic sense of its electoral position now. It has lost sight of its customary ingenuity in accepting, abjectly, such a state of affairs. Even in the Haughey era, its self-image was never so low. It was one of Fianna Fáil's strategic successes then to know that it had to move from the core value of single-party government to coalitions in order to remain in power. This decision has guaranteed its participation in government for almost 20 years.

It is extraordinary the way in which the party now openly accepts that it is doomed to opposition, and maybe not just for five, but ten years. The high-profile figures who have benefited from the party's profile over the past 13 years in government are standing down in swarms. What is different now is that they are thinking mé féin. There are three Cabinet Ministers - Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, and Tony Killeen; Minister of State Michael Finneran; and many other TDs. Some of them are retiring for health or age reasons but others are just opting out to protect their pensions or because they believe they are heading for electoral defeat.

There was never such a situation in Fianna Fáil before. If it was required that an ageing TD should stand again to protect a seat, he did so. The party was paramount and that was what guaranteed Fianna Fáil's claim to be a national movement. It would now appear that that belief in itself has dissipated and the spirit of Fianna Fáil is gone.

That change in the party's political psychology is undoubtedly the reason why the key aspirant leaders, Micheál Martin, Brian Lenihan and Mary Hanafin, think that they would have a better chance of being re-elected in Cork South-Central, Dublin West and Dun Laoghaire as potential taoisigh than as Fianna Fáil Ministers or TDs. This is another manifestation of the new policy of individualism in Fianna Fáil.

The sad reality is that those aspiring to leadership themselves do not have the courage to offer the vision to take Fianna Fáil out of its mire. So maybe a better case could be made by the younger generation to renew the party.