gaaboard.com

Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 09:09:46 PM

Title: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 09:09:46 PM
I was just wondering how many people would vote for Fianna Fail in the future. This is open to lads in the North and elsewhere, basically if you could, would you?

O.K. most people here know I'm a Fine Gaeler, so thats me declaring straight out. I just feel so frustrated and demoralised about the condition of our state and the future for the Irish state. I feel like someone has stabbed me in my heart, as I love my country so much.

I'm sure I'll get a bashing from some because of this poll, but I am very interested into seeing will people forgive and forget what Fianna Fail have done to us.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on November 19, 2010, 09:27:46 PM
Despite all the crap we had to endure from FF since 1997 all they had to do was be straight for once ( I know I know ...it's like expecting snow in New Guinea) this week and they might have salvaged some bit of decency.... but no they couldnt even do that.
It was deny it, then it was " ECB/IMF just advising us" then it was "they're our partners" just giving a dig out ....and so on spoof spoof spoof and bluster.
I never thought I would say this but Fair play to Pat Rabbitte for letting that flute Carey ( a FF gobdaw if thee ever was one) have it with both barrells last night on RTE.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 09:29:27 PM
Despite all the crap we had to endure from FF since 1997 all they had to do was be straight for once ( I know I know ...it's like expecting snow in New Guinea) this week and they might have salvaged some bit of decency.... but no they couldnt even do that.
It was deny it, then it was " ECB/IMF just advising us" then it was "they're our partners" just giving a dig out ....and so on spoof spoof spoof and bluster.
I never thought I would say this but Fair play to Pat Rabbitte for letting that flute Carey ( a FF gobdaw if thee ever was one) have it with both barrells last night on RTE.

I agree Rossfan, Pat Rabbitte made me proud to be a Mayoman yesterday. Not a fan of Gilmore but I always liked Pat. The clip with Carey and Rabbitte was shown across the U.K. on a few channels yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqx4E5tq1Bo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqx4E5tq1Bo)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 19, 2010, 10:15:44 PM
I never voted for FF and I doubt I ever will and I can tell you I won't vote FG either.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: bcarrier on November 19, 2010, 10:27:13 PM
Pat Rabitte is a little more than a bar room bore.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Dougal Maguire on November 19, 2010, 10:31:04 PM
I'm from the North but I've always considered Pat Rabbitte to be nothing more than a hyperactive sensationalist tosspot. I remember during the Harry Whelehan/Brendan Smith crisis he hit the headlines when he announced that he had uncovered information which would 'rock the state to its very core'. I'm still waiting for it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: thejuice on November 19, 2010, 10:31:31 PM
The problem is who do we vote for now. I have little faith in any of the major parties. I think the country is crying out for something new and has been for a long time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2010, 10:33:18 PM
I have had a faint notion of politics since 1977. Bar from the 30th June 1981 to 9th March 1982, the 14th December 1982 to 10th March 1987 and the 15th December 1994 to 26 June 1997, Fianna Fail have held power. Fine Gael have held power in that period for about 8 and a half years out of 33 years. That's roughly 75% of that time with Fianna fail in power.

If you go from 1932, Fianna Fail have been in power for all but 19 out of 78 years.

I have voted for change since the late 80's. Change, being anything other than the usual Dynasty following on from their father into a safe seat, Change from the brown paper bag boys, change from the local historical politics, change from civil war politics.

We have been fooled for years that there was a choice of government in this country.  With this dominance Fianna Fail have been given free reign.  ;D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on November 19, 2010, 10:51:28 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 19, 2010, 11:02:06 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had ben in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
thats not the point. the point is they should get the opportunity. its hard to imagine anyone being bigger scoundrels then ahern and co
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:05:23 PM
Find it quite interesting that there has been 6 people who voted yes so far, quite interesting. I'm quite Amazed actually.

I wonder what Fianna Fail would have to do for them to vote no, re-enter the United Kingdom or make drowning kittens/puppies a government policy perhaps!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 19, 2010, 11:11:45 PM
Find it quite interesting that there has been 6 people who voted yes so far, quite interesting. I'm quite Amazed actually.

I wonder what Fianna Fail would have to do for them to vote no, re-enter the United Kingdom or make drowning kittens/puppies a government policy perhaps!

its why i dont have much sympathy for us. the people have this country in the shit-house because we continually voted scumbags, liars and thieves into office.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:12:07 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had ben in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
thats not the point. the point is they should get the opportunity. its hard to imagine anyone being bigger scoundrels then ahern and co

A Democratic Dictatorship perhaps

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=democratic%20dictatorship (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=democratic%20dictatorship)

http://books.google.ie/books?id=IcwRKpEC4tMC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=mexico+democratic+dictatorship&source=bl&ots=Dp1cNlgFhn&sig=SL-mApbyjU-FXwy94yERbDd1HCc&hl=en&ei=8gPnTOXqJ4W6hAejpZ3HDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mexico%20democratic%20dictatorship&f=false (http://books.google.ie/books?id=IcwRKpEC4tMC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=mexico+democratic+dictatorship&source=bl&ots=Dp1cNlgFhn&sig=SL-mApbyjU-FXwy94yERbDd1HCc&hl=en&ei=8gPnTOXqJ4W6hAejpZ3HDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mexico%20democratic%20dictatorship&f=false)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: hardstation on November 19, 2010, 11:18:30 PM
Find it quite interesting that there has been 6 people who voted yes so far, quite interesting. I'm quite Amazed actually.

I wonder what Fianna Fail would have to do for them to vote no, re-enter the United Kingdom or make drowning kittens/puppies a government policy perhaps!

its why i dont have much sympathy for us. the people have this country in the shit-house because we continually voted scumbags, liars and thieves into office.
True. Nothing to do with the greedy bastard 'nation' who gripped capitalism by the ballix when things were going well.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:18:52 PM
Find it quite interesting that there has been 6 people who voted yes so far, quite interesting. I'm quite Amazed actually.

I wonder what Fianna Fail would have to do for them to vote no, re-enter the United Kingdom or make drowning kittens/puppies a government policy perhaps!

its why i dont have much sympathy for us. the people have this country in the shit-house because we continually voted scumbags, liars and thieves into office.

Its up to 8 now and rising, someone must have informed central command @ Lower Mount Street. "Long Live Glorious Leader"





Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 19, 2010, 11:25:30 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 19, 2010, 11:27:12 PM
Find it quite interesting that there has been 6 people who voted yes so far, quite interesting. I'm quite Amazed actually.

I wonder what Fianna Fail would have to do for them to vote no, re-enter the United Kingdom or make drowning kittens/puppies a government policy perhaps!

its why i dont have much sympathy for us. the people have this country in the shit-house because we continually voted scumbags, liars and thieves into office.
True. Nothing to do with the greedy b**tard 'nation' who gripped capitalism by the ballix when things were going well.

at the end of the day anyone out there who thought that 2 wages were going to support 3 mortgages in the long run can't have passed foundation maths in the leaving cert.
FF have always been scumbags. Inhabited by liars and rinky dink politicians who achieved nothing in their personal lives ever to suggest they would be fit to run the country. Locked in stocks in o connell street is the only answer
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: thejuice on November 19, 2010, 11:28:44 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

I was about to ask that. Though I'm sure some on here are just taking the piss, would anyone who genuinely would vote for FF in the next election might like to tell us why?? I might be swung, you never know  ;)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 19, 2010, 11:29:20 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
I never voted for FF and I doubt I ever will and I can tell you I won't vote FG either.

Thats fair enough mylestheslasher, but how on Earth people still can give a 1,2,3 or other to F.F. I will never understand.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 19, 2010, 11:32:20 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

Exactly
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: hardstation on November 19, 2010, 11:34:18 PM
Enda Kenny is a horrible cnut.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:34:27 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:34:58 PM
Enda Kenny is a horrible cnut.

 :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 19, 2010, 11:37:12 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

Where'd you end up? Is it nice? Is there any work? Sure if it's all ok we'll all go out there.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 19, 2010, 11:38:44 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

Where'd you end up? Is it nice? Is there any work? Sure if it's all ok we'll all go out there.

The U.K. don't worry another few months/years under Fianna Fail and you won't have to leave to be in the United Kingdom.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Ulick on November 20, 2010, 01:07:17 AM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

So let me get this right, you have abandoned your country and then you choose to come on here to pass comment on those who choose to stay? That seems like the good old fashioned patriotic thing to do alright.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Shamrock Shore on November 20, 2010, 01:27:07 AM
I reckon if 'None of the above' is appoved as a candidate in the next election then we'd have a majority government.

If I am pressed for an answer to the above the last time I voted FF No 1 was 1987 and that was my first and only time. It was an Albert thing. Longford and all of that. In retrospect Albert was a good Taoiseach. History will judge him well. Compared to Ahern and Cowen he is/was a JFK.

Being a voter in Dun Laoghaire gives one a wide latitude to vote for hairy lesbians or some FG goon who thinks he has Dublin GAA in his blood. Seemingly we're the most liberal constituency in the State.

Let's see how Eamon Gilmore does in the next GE.


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: sammymaguire on November 20, 2010, 09:08:07 AM
Irish politics has been a bad joke since approx 1916.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on November 20, 2010, 09:38:43 AM

Being a voter in Dun Laoghaire gives one a wide latitude to vote for hairy lesbians


There ya go - the Hairy Lesbians party. That could be the answer. Looking at the current batch of female TDs, they already hold down about a dozen seats. Thirteen if you count Michael Dee.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 20, 2010, 10:38:02 AM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

Where'd you end up? Is it nice? Is there any work? Sure if it's all ok we'll all go out there.

The U.K. don't worry another few months/years under Fianna Fail and you won't have to leave to be in the United Kingdom.

Really, I thought it was a FG Mayo TD that stood up in the dail recently and said we should hand the country back to the british queen when her visit happens.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on November 20, 2010, 11:14:50 AM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
This is the line FF have been feeding us for the last few years "well we might have fucked it up but it would have been way worse if it was FG"
How?
His could things possibly be worse for Ireland than it is now?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Aoise on November 20, 2010, 11:20:32 AM
Just posing a question here really to southern voters.  Due to capitalism failing you so badly as is evident by whats happening globally at the minute, would a more leftist party not be an option?  Could it really do any worse than what has happened at the minute?

Instead of blaming one party or Government, is it not possible to just look at the Celtic Tiger as an economic whole and realise that is was doomed to failure from the beginning?  Just wondering what people's opinions are!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2010, 11:40:12 AM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

Where'd you end up? Is it nice? Is there any work? Sure if it's all ok we'll all go out there.

The U.K. don't worry another few months/years under Fianna Fail and you won't have to leave to be in the United Kingdom.

Really, I thought it was a FG Mayo TD that stood up in the dail recently and said we should hand the country back to the british queen when her visit happens.

Silly rhetoric from a spoofer. However it is typical of Irish politics that we argue about what an irrelevant someone in the opposition said, while those in power actually hand over sovereignty while denying it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: bennydorano on November 20, 2010, 11:42:48 AM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
This is the line FF have been feeding us for the last few years "well we might have fucked it up but it would have been way worse if it was FG"
How?
His could things possibly be worse for Ireland than it is now?
Would FG not be seen as the more further to the right of the 2 parties??  That being the case there's no way on this earth anything would have been different, in theory there would have been even less regulation and I would have said thngs would probably have been worse, but I fail to see how it could be much worse.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: bennydorano on November 20, 2010, 12:18:56 PM
I think you are kidding yourselves to think anything would have been done differently to any meaningful degree.  Polticians are all brown enveople merchants to some extent.  No way FG would have turned the money tap off either.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2010, 12:19:11 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
This is the line FF have been feeding us for the last few years "well we might have fucked it up but it would have been way worse if it was FG"
How?
His could things possibly be worse for Ireland than it is now?
Would FG not be seen as the more further to the right of the 2 parties??  That being the case there's no way on this earth anything would have been different, in theory there would have been even less regulation and I would have said thngs would probably have been worse, but I fail to see how it could be much worse.

Ah the old shur there is nothing else so we have to vote FF.

Right wing regulation, or lack thereof, was the PDs territory.

FF were the partnership party which has left the Public Service bill €30 Billion more than the revenue.

Looking back the PDs and FF were a lethal cocktail of the worst of both worlds.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 12:36:43 PM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

So let me get this right, you have abandoned your country and then you choose to come on here to pass comment on those who choose to stay? That seems like the good old fashioned patriotic thing to do alright.
O I get it Ulick you want me to come back and join the other 450,000 on the live register, now that would be really patriotic. I have had to leave the country I love because of those FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, I NEVER WANTED TO HAVE TO EMMIGRATE, f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 12:47:39 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?
This is the line FF have been feeding us for the last few years "well we might have fucked it up but it would have been way worse if it was FG"
How?
His could things possibly be worse for Ireland than it is now?

Its the old Fianna Fail line alright and the Fianna Fail genepool are stupid enough to lap it up, I am always surprised that other voters can fall for it too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: magpie seanie on November 20, 2010, 01:28:56 PM
To be honst our whole political system and our society is broken. Fianna Fáil are the biggest example of this because they have had the uncanny knack of being in power for so long. I will never support them again and am embarrassed I did in the past. But the problems run deeper than FF. If they were gone inthe morning someone else would fill the vacuum similarly and the proliferation of idiots in this country would continue to accept it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 01:50:37 PM
To be honst our whole political system and our society is broken. Fianna Fáil are the biggest example of this because they have had the uncanny knack of being in power for so long. I will never support them again and am embarrassed I did in the past. But the problems run deeper than FF. If they were gone inthe morning someone else would fill the vacuum similarly and the proliferation of idiots in this country would continue to accept it.


You are right Magpie, there are quite a few below standard Candidates/TDs/Senators in all the parties. I think we really need to vote in as soon as possible either Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein (I personally hope not) or a combination of 2 or all 3. I'm not sure I want to see Independents or non-party whip - gene pool Indos. We need to do this to drive Fianna Fail out and keep them out. I am not saying that this is the perfect option this is the only option. There may be a need in the future for new parties (not FF under a different name), an amalgamation or break up of existing parties, but a certain level of reform may be needed in the 3 main (current) opposition parties too. We need to reform the Dail and Seanad (or get rid). We empower local councillors so those who really want to help their fellow Kerryman, Portlaoise woman, Dalkey neighbours etc. can do it at a local level and do not hold back the national agenda. We need to reform our banks, our courts, our education system, our health service (I would love to see us try and move towards an NHS style system, a dream I know), most certainly our political system, certainly our trade unions and public sector. We need to invest in R & D, the sciences and maths. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: andoireabu on November 20, 2010, 02:08:20 PM
Not too up on my southern politics. Can someone tell me what the Seanad does?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 20, 2010, 02:25:34 PM
Not too up on my southern politics. Can someone tell me what the Seanad does?
reads legislation for the Dail. In reality it does nothing. It is a massive waste of money. Has no powers. Run by rinky dink wannabe politicians
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: andoireabu on November 20, 2010, 02:27:18 PM
Not too up on my southern politics. Can someone tell me what the Seanad does?
reads legislation for the Dail. In reality it does nothing. It is a massive waste of money. Has no powers. Run by rinky dink wannabe politicians
I'm guessing they don't earn minimum wage either?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 20, 2010, 02:29:58 PM
Not too up on my southern politics. Can someone tell me what the Seanad does?
reads legislation for the Dail. In reality it does nothing. It is a massive waste of money. Has no powers. Run by rinky dink wannabe politicians
I'm guessing they don't earn minimum wage either?

between expenses- 60k easy. in reality its more.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2010, 03:43:39 PM
To be honst our whole political system and our society is broken. Fianna Fáil are the biggest example of this because they have had the uncanny knack of being in power for so long. I will never support them again and am embarrassed I did in the past. But the problems run deeper than FF. If they were gone inthe morning someone else would fill the vacuum similarly and the proliferation of idiots in this country would continue to accept it.

This is exactly it. FF are only part of the bigger problem. They simply abuse it better than the other parties.

On a positive note, we now have a real chance though to reform the entire system from top to bottom. Left leaning ''tax the 'rich' (i.e. middle class) and hand it out to our voters policies'' lead to huge waste and inefficient public services and should be ignored (I would argue for free Health and Education, and back to work assistance for the unemployed, but that should be about it).

The chart showing where the money went between 1995 and now was fascinating. More money went to single mothers than went to into construction i§n Health (Hospitals etc.) and Education (Schools). Right leaning tax breaks for big (political) investors hoping benefits 'trickle down' are a large part of what got us into the mess we are in, and can't continue. The cosy relationships between Government and the Unions and in particular between the Government and the media (they were in the bar that night with Cowen and had no intention of reporting it) have to be broken. Even this week we were relying on foreign media to tell us what was actually happening in our own country. What is the point of having freedom of the press if they won't use it properly?

We really need qualified people put in charge of the Ministries and other important positions. Look at Mary Coughlan. Look what Harney has done to Health. Look at Neary the non-regulator.

A smaller Dáil whose function would be to appoint non-political to the important positions would be better than what we have. In Mayo we recently had a County Council made up of mainly Estate Agents. That shite can't go on either. It is like electing very hungry bears to the fishery board.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 20, 2010, 04:13:55 PM


This is exactly it. FF are only part of the bigger problem. They simply abuse it better than the other parties.

On a positive note, we now have a real chance though to reform the entire system from top to bottom. Left leaning ''tax the 'rich' (i.e. middle class) and hand it out to our voters policies'' lead to huge waste and inefficient public services and should be ignored (I would argue for free Health and Education, and back to work assistance for the unemployed, but that should be about it).


There is a very strange view in Ireland of what left leaning actually is. How can you tax a middle class who have no money? There is a big difference in being left leaning and wanting to tax the middle class.

Zap there are a small amount of very high earners in this country. The left want to increase taxes to tax the 'rich'. The impression/spin given is to tax these people. These very high earners/wealthy individuals usually escape through tax breaks and even if they are hit for the high tax rates there are so few of them that it makes little impact on the State's finances.

The reality is the 'Left' talking about taxing the rich means increasing the top rate of tax. That taxes almost all of the middle class. This increases the tax take enormously because of the huge number of taxpayers it hits. This extra tax then tends to be used for the benefit of precisely those who have not paid it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 20, 2010, 07:51:41 PM
To the people who are saying it couldn't be any worse: of course it could be worse. It could be much, much worse. Who knows where all this will end?

We are a nation that judge TDs' ability to govern and run an economy on their ability to attend funerals. Isn't it pretty much a miracle there's anyone left on the island at all?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 08:30:58 PM
O I get it Ulick you want me to come back and join the other 450,000 on the live register, now that would be really patriotic. I have had to leave the country I love because of those FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, I NEVER WANTED TO HAVE TO EMMIGRATE, f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.

My dad will be voting FF in the next election precisely to antagonise the likes of you. Well done.

Personally I have always voted FF but will be voting anyone but FF the next time around. I don't think things would have been very different had someone else been in charge over the last decade but there has to be some manner of reckoning for the way in which FF were captured by the very people they meant to be overseeing on behalf of the nation.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 08:37:57 PM

My dad will be voting FF in the next election precisely to antagonise the likes of you. Well done.


I'm confused by this line Deiseach, what would his reasoning for that be, because I'm a Fine Gaeler, because I had to emmigrate for work, because I hate Fianna Fail, because I believe in justice and liberty, because I'm an Atheist, because I'm a Mayoman, because I curse, because I use larger font size, because I highlight in red, because he doesn't like my views or personality or just because hes a spiteful genepool p***k or where you being sarcastic?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 08:41:16 PM
My point is though that you can have a left wing Government and still have a healthy middle class. There are left leaning countries in various parts of the world with an extremely healthy middle class. The problem in Ireland is that people automatically assume that left wing parties will work for the working class while right wing parties will work for the middle class. If you take Britian for example - the NHS is a left wing idea but it serves all, middle class and working class. It can exist and function quite well under a right wing government. If you try to bring in that idea in Ireland you are accused of being an extreme left winger and a threat to a peacefull law abiding middle class. Taxing middle earners is not nessecaraly an attack on the middle class. It might narrow the gap between the middle class and working class but if it's fair then so be it.

The problem with that analysis is that developed countries are, well, developed. The NHS is an extreme example. There isn't a country other than Britain that has quite such a planned (in the communist sense of the word, and I do not use it as a term of abuse) health system. It was only possible to introduce something so radical in a country which was malleable after the trauma of war. Increasing taxes is the least of the problems you'd have introducing the NHS into Ireland. It would involve what would effectively be a massive seizure of assets and wealth by the State. What would you do if people resisted that? Send them to gulags?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 08:43:19 PM

My dad will be voting FF in the next election precisely to antagonise the likes of you. Well done.


I'm confused by this line Deiseach, what would his reasoning for that be, because I'm a Fine Gaeler, because I had to emmigrate for work, because I hate Fianna Fail, because I believe in justice and liberty, because I'm an Atheist, because I'm a Mayoman, because I curse, because I use larger font size, because I highlight in red, because he doesn't like my views or personality or just because hes a spiteful genepool p***k or where you being sarcastic?

If you were in a pub and someone shrieked at you in the spittle-flecked manner of your uppercase, red-lettered diatribe, would you be surprised if they reacted against you?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 08:45:08 PM
My point is though that you can have a left wing Government and still have a healthy middle class. There are left leaning countries in various parts of the world with an extremely healthy middle class. The problem in Ireland is that people automatically assume that left wing parties will work for the working class while right wing parties will work for the middle class. If you take Britian for example - the NHS is a left wing idea but it serves all, middle class and working class. It can exist and function quite well under a right wing government. If you try to bring in that idea in Ireland you are accused of being an extreme left winger and a threat to a peacefull law abiding middle class. Taxing middle earners is not nessecaraly an attack on the middle class. It might narrow the gap between the middle class and working class but if it's fair then so be it.

The problem with that analysis is that developed countries are, well, developed. The NHS is an extreme example. There isn't a country other than Britain that has quite such a planned (in the communist sense of the word, and I do not use it as a term of abuse) health system. It was only possible to introduce something so radical in a country which was malleable after the trauma of war. Increasing taxes is the least of the problems you'd have introducing the NHS into Ireland. It would involve what would effectively be a massive seizure of assets and wealth by the State. What would you do if people resisted that? Send them to gulags?

The way this government are going we very well maybe as easy to bend as a country coming out of a war. No don't send them to the Gulags, make emmigration official government policy and let them emmigrate, O wait it is and hundreds of thousands have already.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 08:47:30 PM

My dad will be voting FF in the next election precisely to antagonise the likes of you. Well done.


I'm confused by this line Deiseach, what would his reasoning for that be, because I'm a Fine Gaeler, because I had to emmigrate for work, because I hate Fianna Fail, because I believe in justice and liberty, because I'm an Atheist, because I'm a Mayoman, because I curse, because I use larger font size, because I highlight in red, because he doesn't like my views or personality or just because hes a spiteful genepool p***k or where you being sarcastic?

If you were in a pub and someone shrieked at you in the spittle-flecked manner of your uppercase, red-lettered diatribe, would you be surprised if they reacted against you?

So he is so petty he would force the country into further ruin just to spite someone he does not know or has a few pints on them. WOW Dev did a good job on them boys. When will the genepool admit they are wrong and then go crawl under a rock and have a little think about where they have led this country.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 20, 2010, 08:55:38 PM
Deiseach - did u always vote ff cos it was a family tradition? Same for you mayogodhelpus. Serious question.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: pintsofguinness on November 20, 2010, 08:59:04 PM
There's not one of those parties I'd trust with the running of the country.
I don't think it would be really any different with any of them in. 
That said, I'd rather have FF over yon c***ts in FG.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 09:07:58 PM
So he is so petty he would force the country into further ruin just to spite someone he does not know or has a few pints on them. WOW Dev did a good job on them boys. When will the genepool admit they are wrong and then go crawl under a rock and have a little think about where they have led this country.

Er, where did I suggest that he was reacting to you personally?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Deiseach - did u always vote ff cos it was a family tradition?

It's a fair question. In a word, yes
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 20, 2010, 09:09:07 PM
FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, ....f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.

 :D That fairly accurately sums up how I feel about FG. Not that I would have anything much nicer to say about FF gangsters mind you.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 09:13:58 PM
Deiseach - did u always vote ff cos it was a family tradition? Same for you mayogodhelpus. Serious question.

My family tradition isn't all FG, we have FG, Labour, FF background. If I wasn't FG, I probably would have gone to Labour (like my brother) but I don't trust them to govern on their own (my brother probably has the same view about FG that I do about Labour). If I really really thought I could trust SF and if they actually formed real policies that work other than the national question I might give them a chance as a minor coalition partner (I know its hard to vote like that), not yet though, they might get a low preference if they catch me on a good day. I didn't mind the PD's in their early years but turned against them as it became apparent to me that they where heartless b**tards and a proxy for Fianna Fail. I always had a soft spot for the Democratic Left & liked Proinsias De Rossa (yea I know, why not give SF a real chance then). I never passed much heed of the Greens, but now its time for them to go.

I have voted FG, Labour, Green & Independent in the past
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 09:15:25 PM
FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, ....f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.

 :D That fairly accurately sums up how I feel about FG. Not that I would have anything much nicer to say about FF gangsters mind you.

 :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 09:19:04 PM
So he is so petty he would force the country into further ruin just to spite someone he does not know or has a few pints on them. WOW Dev did a good job on them boys. When will the genepool admit they are wrong and then go crawl under a rock and have a little think about where they have led this country.

Er, where did I suggest that he was reacting to you personally?

You did give a hypothetical about if someone in the pub said the same to him.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on November 20, 2010, 09:20:45 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?

This is not a loaded question, I genuinely don't know the answer but, Civil war aside, what is the difference between FF & FG?

In most democracies voters have a genuine choice. In Ireland it is either choosing from opposing sides from 1922 or on the other side of the border it is picking from 2 opposing sides from 1690.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 09:31:54 PM
So he is so petty he would force the country into further ruin just to spite someone he does not know or has a few pints on them. WOW Dev did a good job on them boys. When will the genepool admit they are wrong and then go crawl under a rock and have a little think about where they have led this country.

Er, where did I suggest that he was reacting to you personally?

You did give a hypothetical about if someone in the pub said the same to him.

That's fair enough. To flesh out what I said, he was planning for a while to vote for an Independent or not at all. But he's gotten to a point where being labelled a spiteful p***k (or whatever) for voting FF all his life has caused him to lash out. I've advised him not to read the Indo or go to politics.ie, but he will insist
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 09:36:47 PM
Switch things around and hypothetically imagine FG had been in power for the last 13 years. Do people genuinely believe that things would have worked out much differently?

This is not a loaded question, I genuinely don't know the answer but, Civil war aside, what is the difference between FF & FG?

In most democracies voters have a genuine choice. In Ireland it is either choosing from opposing sides from 1922 or on the other side of the border it is picking from 2 opposing sides from 1690.

None, if you're being honest. But let's think about this. What is the 'genuine choice' between (say) the Christian Democrats and the Social Democrats in Germany? The last general election there saw them running against each other even though they'd spent five years in government together! And before knocking the politics of the Civil War, it was that which spared us from the ideological divisions that tore Europe apart in the 1930's and 1940's.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 09:51:05 PM
So he is so petty he would force the country into further ruin just to spite someone he does not know or has a few pints on them. WOW Dev did a good job on them boys. When will the genepool admit they are wrong and then go crawl under a rock and have a little think about where they have led this country.

Er, where did I suggest that he was reacting to you personally?

You did give a hypothetical about if someone in the pub said the same to him.

That's fair enough. To flesh out what I said, he was planning for a while to vote for an Independent or not at all. But he's gotten to a point where being labelled a spiteful p***k (or whatever) for voting FF all his life has caused him to lash out. I've advised him not to read the Indo or go to politics.ie, but he will insist

Ha ha, I can't read the Indo, esp. the Sindo because I think its the Irish Press in disguise. Fair enough keep him away for the Free press on Politics.ie  ;)

But does he accept that he was wrong to vote FF? does he still revere Charlie Haughey and Bertie Ahern? (I don't consider the two Brians bad men, just usless ones).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on November 20, 2010, 10:02:17 PM
But does he accept that he was wrong to vote FF? does he still revere Charlie Haughey and Bertie Ahern? (I don't consider the two Brians bad men, just usless ones).

He accepts Haughey was a thief and Ahern was in cahoots with pirates. He does not accept he was wrong to vote FF all his life
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: bcarrier on November 20, 2010, 10:14:57 PM
Tax the rich and they go somewhere else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 20, 2010, 10:15:44 PM
But does he accept that he was wrong to vote FF? does he still revere Charlie Haughey and Bertie Ahern? (I don't consider the two Brians bad men, just usless ones).

He accepts Haughey was a thief and Ahern was in cahoots with pirates. He does not accept he was wrong to vote FF all his life

Hey sorry I should have been more specific, a maybe on 1997, quite likely 2002, most certainly and it was obvious beforehand in 2007. A vote for Charlie was wrong too, I don't blame him for Lemass, Lynch or Reynolds, they would not be my choice but they wherent rotten to their very core like the twin vampires Haughey and Ahern, with not a drop of true patriotism in their blood bar a bit of wrap the Green flag round me boys bullshit.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Ulick on November 21, 2010, 12:20:12 AM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

So let me get this right, you have abandoned your country and then you choose to come on here to pass comment on those who choose to stay? That seems like the good old fashioned patriotic thing to do alright.
O I get it Ulick you want me to come back and join the other 450,000 on the live register, now that would be really patriotic. I have had to leave the country I love because of those FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, I NEVER WANTED TO HAVE TO EMMIGRATE, f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.

If more people stayed to stand their ground instead of scurrying off when things got tough then we probably wouldn't be in this mess. If you want to put your personal well-being before that of your country fair enough but don't expect those of us who stay behind to give a f**k about who you think we should vote for.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on November 21, 2010, 12:22:13 AM
FF died with Sean Lemass, since then they have just been a cabal of Mohair suited gangsters. They fact that they were still able to maintain their control of Irish Politics is a reflection of the awfulness of the opposition. Expect neither of these positions to change  in the short to medium term, as a univocal O Reilly controlled media will combine with them to savage the only radical alternative. But the first speckles of light from a new dawn is slowly becoming visible
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 21, 2010, 01:09:29 AM
The sneaky FF voter, none have the courage to even comment as to why! You'll get the same at the elections too.

Is rising Mayo God Help Us not reason enough?

O don't worry about me I have left the country with hundreds of thousands of others, I can't hack those FF snakes any longer. At least my emmigration helps FF in their OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY OF EMMIGRATION.

So let me get this right, you have abandoned your country and then you choose to come on here to pass comment on those who choose to stay? That seems like the good old fashioned patriotic thing to do alright.
O I get it Ulick you want me to come back and join the other 450,000 on the live register, now that would be really patriotic. I have had to leave the country I love because of those FIANNA FAIL c***ts, I HATE THEM AND AM ANGRY, I NEVER WANTED TO HAVE TO EMMIGRATE, f**k THEM b**tards AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON. IF YOU VOTE FOR THESE PRICKS I HATE YOU TOO.

If more people stayed to stand their ground instead of scurrying off when things got tough then we probably wouldn't be in this mess. If you want to put your personal well-being before that of your country fair enough but don't expect those of us who stay behind to give a f**k about who you think we should vote for.

You need to wise up Ulick, have you got a job in Ireland, do ya? I don't want to be on the dole in Ireland, I will work where I can get it, because of this Governments reckless cruelty. I was volunteer for several organisations before I left Ireland, giving my time for free. Ulick your a giant jackass.

By the way Ulick it is OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POLICY to have 40,000 emmigrants a year for the next 4 years, YES OFFICIAL.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 21, 2010, 02:55:15 AM







Ireland's Youth for Export.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on November 21, 2010, 12:25:35 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 21, 2010, 12:49:13 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on November 21, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\
Isn't an independent candidate even more likely to perpetuate the 'parish-pump politics'?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on November 21, 2010, 12:59:21 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\
Isn't an independent candidate even more likely to perpetuate the 'parish-pump politics'?

Hence the  :-\

I trust none of the parties to run the country properly. It irritates me to have to vote independent but it's either that or not vote at all as far as I'm concerned.

The whole political system in this country needs a wholesale change. How this could be achieved? God only knows
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: andoireabu on November 21, 2010, 01:25:26 PM
From reading a few posts i've gathered that Sinn Féin are not popular in the South. Can anyone tell me why?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on November 21, 2010, 02:05:02 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\

That's exactly my position as well, pretty much word for word. While there's no palatable alternative, FF MUST be thrown out. If we don't do it, what kind of a message would that be to the political class, the world and to ourselves and our children?

I'd vote for the IMF candidates down the card at the next election, if that were possible. (With a no. 4 or 5 vote for the Hairy Lesbians, just to make sure FF are kept out).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 21, 2010, 02:08:29 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\

Face down the unions? Labour are the unions. We're buggered.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 21, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
It would be good to see Fianna Fail annihilated in the next election. Even if the some of the people who turn on them are the ones who thought that stroke pulling was great back in the day and are now blaming the government for some of their self inflicted problems. At least it would send out a message to future parties in power to keep their snouts clean.

Now is a good time to try and clean up the political system. Try and remove local interferences from the cabinet table and keep local politicians from interfering with hospital waiting lists, medical cards allocation and local planning. I can't see it being tackled though. For our leaders to do this would be like them reaching down and sawing the bottom of the ladder they are standing on.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bord na Mona man on November 21, 2010, 02:24:30 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\

Face down the unions? Labour are the unions. We're buggered.
Which is why the longer an election is put off the better. If Labour got into power too soon, they wouldn't tackle the beards in the unions and the current crisis would be prolonged. Let Fianna Fail take the unpopular but necessary measures and then remove them from office.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 21, 2010, 03:12:16 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\

Face down the unions? Labour are the unions. We're buggered.

Thats how I feel Iolar, thats exactly why I don't trust Labour as a stand alone Government or the lead partner in a coalition. If I thought Labour would face down the Unions I might be less worried. My preference is a Fine Gael stand alone government followed by an FG lead FG-Labour coalition. I don't think the Greens deserve to be allowed to join any coalition, I don't think Independents as government backers makes good national government. I actually would rather see 2 or 3 SF'rs in a coalition than the Greens, hope it doesn't come to that tbh. I am a big fan of Enda Kenny, but it must be remembered FG shared power with Clann na Poblachta and again with the Democratic Left. My problem with SF is becoming less their connections to the RA and more to with their unrealistic and off the wall approach to economics and sence of detachment to what matters to the citizens of the Republic.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 21, 2010, 03:15:11 PM
Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are two sides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned. The carry-on in the courtyard of Leinster House after the heave against Kenny last summer suggests to me that there'll be no change from the bullsh1t parish-pump politics that has got us into this mess.

There appears to be no viable alternative though. Labour and Gilmore talk a good game but will he have the balls to face down the unions when the cuts have to be made? I doubt it. The Greens have dug their own grave and I will never vote for Sinn Féin.

To answer the original question, I have never voted for FF and I probably never will. I haven't a strong notion who I'll vote for in the next election. At this stage I will probably vote for an Independent candidate.  :-\

Face down the unions? Labour are the unions. We're buggered.
Which is why the longer an election is put off the better. If Labour got into power too soon, they wouldn't tackle the beards in the unions and the current crisis would be prolonged. Let Fianna Fail take the unpopular but necessary measures and then remove them from office.

I think for democracy we need an election now, for a better future for Ireland we need it after FF cuts their own wrists (a better Ireland is one without FF).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: turk on November 21, 2010, 06:02:53 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RMDrive on November 21, 2010, 06:13:09 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2010, 06:44:47 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 21, 2010, 07:22:06 PM
From reading a few posts i've gathered that Sinn Féin are not popular in the South. Can anyone tell me why?

I am not in the slightest trying to stir sh*t and I am asking this as a serious question in this regard, for the 26 county contingent.

What circumstances must there be before people in the twenty six counties will genuinely give a fiddlers fart about partition of their country? It seems that the prevailing attitudes in the south are either "f**k the nordies" or "ahh a united Ireland would be nice yes, but it's not important".

When will it EVER become important? When times were "good" and the 'celtic tiger' was running rampant, partition and the six counties didn't matter a damn as there was money flowing and greed was the attitude of the day. Now when times are bad, it's still a case of forget about the nordies for now, where'd all the money go?

For a state obsessed with civil war politics, nobody seems all that bothered about the single biggest lasting outcome of the civil war which was the division of the country. The prevailing sentiments of this thread seem to be that Irish politics needs to be totally shaken up but needless to say, for generations to come, it will go back and forward between the FF & FG. Neither of which, and particularly not FG, give a rats ass about partition.

As I say, I am not trying to stir sh*t here. As many will know on the board, my sympathies lie with SF but that is for the simple fact that for me, and as Mayogodhelpus says about himself, I am a patriotic person. And as such I regard the division of Ireland as wholly unacceptable I will always support the party which is most serious about ending it.

Serious responses only please, as I'm not looking for an argument; it's a question of genuine curiosity.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RMDrive on November 21, 2010, 07:23:13 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.

How has the local FG TD in my area bankrupted it?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on November 21, 2010, 08:14:23 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.

Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2010, 08:20:34 PM
Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

I think Irish people are remarkably resourceful in finding excuses to vote for the most incompetent Government in our history and one of the most incompetent in European history.

100 years ago we were the poorest country in Europe, even poorer than Albania.
In nearly a century of independence we had grown to a position of relative (if only on paper) wealth.
Now we are on a rapid slide back to where we came from and still there are citizens who want to re-elect those who did this to us. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RMDrive on November 21, 2010, 08:30:08 PM
Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

I think Irish people are remarkably resourceful in finding excuses to vote for the most incompetent Government in our history and one of the most incompetent in European history.

100 years ago we were the poorest country in Europe, even poorer than Albania.
In nearly a century of independence we had grown to a position of relative (if only on paper) wealth.
Now we are on a rapid slide back to where we came from and still there are citizens who want to re-elect those who did this to us. The mind boggles.

LOL. Good man. You let it all out now.
And when you have calmed down a wee bit you might think about those people (including me) who voted for FG or Lab candidates so that there would be strong representation for their area at a national level.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 21, 2010, 08:31:49 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.

Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

Please help me understand what you are saying. Basically you say we are in the state we are in cos people stupidly vote for boys that do small jobs and this results in us having 80% of TD's that are not capable and then you say that you will vote for a person on that same premise. Does that not make your actions stupid? I think it does.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 21, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

I think Irish people are remarkably resourceful in finding excuses to vote for the most incompetent Government in our history and one of the most incompetent in European history.

100 years ago we were the poorest country in Europe, even poorer than Albania.
In nearly a century of independence we had grown to a position of relative (if only on paper) wealth.
Now we are on a rapid slide back to where we came from and still there are citizens who want to re-elect those who did this to us. The mind boggles.



The mind boggles is right, how FF are still at 17% is a mystery to me. This Goverment had brought Ireland over the cliff, with the "cute hoor nod and a wink politics". Be under no illusions taht this political shit goes right form the Taoiseach down to the local FF councillor on the town council, be it messing with planning permissions, getting someone the medical card, dole who, for what ever reason was not entitled to it. Dont even get me started on the builders and their state contracts time and time again regardless of the tender submitted (This is know from experience, are you listening Bernard?). Listening to the Radio today, it was stated that NAMA is free from ALL FOI requests under the legislation that set it up. This Gvoernment may be on its last legs but, my kids will have the legacy of our small town solicitors, publicans and teachers who have brought us to ruin.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on November 21, 2010, 09:01:55 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.

Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

Please help me understand what you are saying. Basically you say we are in the state we are in cos people stupidly vote for boys that do small jobs and this results in us having 80% of TD's that are not capable and then you say that you will vote for a person on that same premise. Does that not make your actions stupid? I think it does.

Okay. It might appear stupid if I vote because I received assistance. If I do vote for this reason it is because I will feel I owe that vote after the time I engaged and the benefit (rightly deserved but previously withheld) I received. The problem is, as I said, the system. A system which leaves work that could be done by county councillors in the hands of TDs is the problem. Half the TDs, scrap the senate and leave the TDs in Dublin. It would be a help.

Muppet don't make assumptions about me. You don't know me. I've said clearly what my opinion is of FF. If my vote goes the way it does, it is an entirely personel vote. It still mightn't go that way because of the FF name after the party. I might be many things here in this instance but a FF apologist I am not. If FF get votes based only on ppl who have received good assistance or advice like I have, then they'll be rightly out on their ear. I hope they are. As contradictory as that might sound.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2010, 09:05:21 PM
RGS I was speaking generally, not about you personally. Apologies if you thought I was guessing or whatever.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 21, 2010, 10:04:00 PM
I am possibly going to vote for a Fianna Fail candidate in the next election. There, I've said it. It pains me to think I might vote for the party who have brought this country to ruin. But here's the thing, a local Fianna Fail TD managed to inform me of an entitlement others told me I wasn't entitled to. It has made a substantial difference to me. And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Irish politics and I'm perpetuating it. This bit of work that my local Fianna Fail TD did for me shouldn't be their job. It ought to be the job of local councillors. But we've a political system where it is more important for TDs to do things at a local level than show leadership and nous in running the country. Of course it can be pointed out that if that's the way I feel, I ought to vote for someone else to change things. But I'm very grateful for the work that has been done. I would feel guilty if I didn't vote for this TD. It is a personal vote not a party one, although I know it amounts to the same thing. I haven't completely decided to go this way but its the way I'm leaning at the minute.

A few other points. I haven't voted FF all my life. I've mixed it between FF and FG. We've never had decent Labour options in Mayo. Although that is not the case next time around. I wouldn't vote for SF. If Ireland had a strong Labour Party - they sounded their own death knell by not contesting the 1921 elections, which is amazing really - then I feel we wouldn't be in the same situation as we are in now. But Labour have been too weak nationally. I hope that is about to change. Would FG have done a better job than FF. Probably but I cannot say that with the utmost confidence.

You're raising a correct point here. A lot of voters will vote for a candidate from their own town or area regardless of their party rather than choosing a party's policies and voting for that party's candidate. This is especially true in large constituencies and constituencies that cover more than one county. When the big freeze occured back in December and January, and also on a local hospital issues, the local FF councillors were seen to be active on these issues than their FG counterparts. FF will still get votes and seats on this basis.

On what other basis is there to get votes? People are voting for someone to represent their local area and are looking for someone who will promote their interests. Otherwise why bother having candidaes at all? Just let people pick a party instead?

They have bankrupted your local area, my local area and everyone else's local area.

I'm reading here that people will vote for a member of an organisation that has destroyed the country on the basis that they got a medical card/planning permission or whatever from that person.

That explains to me why Ireland is where it is and why it will never escape from corruption and croneyism.

Do you not think that it is more a case of it being the problem that I or you go to TDs with these problems? That our political system fosters this kind of representation. We will never get out of where we are while we have the quality of TDs that we have. 80% of whom are zero use at running the country. They get in and stay in based on being able to do some small bits locally. Parish pump politics. I understood completely how it appears I'm perpetuating this if I vote for someone with FF after their name.

Please help me understand what you are saying. Basically you say we are in the state we are in cos people stupidly vote for boys that do small jobs and this results in us having 80% of TD's that are not capable and then you say that you will vote for a person on that same premise. Does that not make your actions stupid? I think it does.

Okay. It might appear stupid if I vote because I received assistance. If I do vote for this reason it is because I will feel I owe that vote after the time I engaged and the benefit (rightly deserved but previously withheld) I received. The problem is, as I said, the system. A system which leaves work that could be done by county councillors in the hands of TDs is the problem. Half the TDs, scrap the senate and leave the TDs in Dublin. It would be a help.

Muppet don't make assumptions about me. You don't know me. I've said clearly what my opinion is of FF. If my vote goes the way it does, it is an entirely personel vote. It still mightn't go that way because of the FF name after the party. I might be many things here in this instance but a FF apologist I am not. If FF get votes based only on ppl who have received good assistance or advice like I have, then they'll be rightly out on their ear. I hope they are. As contradictory as that might sound.

I'd turn that on its head. The system is the way it is because politicians running for the Dail know that they must devote their time to relatively menial tasks for their constituents to get votes. By voting for this guy and at the same time deploring the policies his party has put forward you are part of the cause of the problem imo.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 21, 2010, 10:07:28 PM
this is bigger then local issues. this is about voting liars, cheats and scumbags out. and FF cover all 3 of those
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on November 21, 2010, 10:08:42 PM
Maybe. So why are so many of those who go for the Dail only ever able for this type of role (parish pump) anyway? We attract the wrong type of politician because of our system. Its cause and effect where we disagree I suppose.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ballinaman on November 22, 2010, 03:14:38 AM
I'll be giving Dara Calleary my vote in the next election because he has done lots for North Mayo and has been a sound lad any time I've met him. I won't be giving 2,3,4 to FF though, always base vote on the strength of the individual candidate.
All this is academic actually because I won't be home to vote anyways. Bondi beach in November...emigration can have it's perks :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2010, 09:08:23 AM
 Vote for FF is a vote for ineptitude, greed and incompetence
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 22, 2010, 09:10:17 AM
It's akin to asking the people of Romania circa 1991 would they vote in Ceaucescu again. I could never understand the mindset of anyone who would consider giving them any preference after what they have done to the country.

This is what Lendahand said only last week!!
Nov 13, 2010 - - An EU bailout doesn’t “make any sense” Lenihan: During the course of an interview with RTÉ Radio Minister Lenihan said “We’ve substantial reserves. We have the pension reserve fund. So this country is not in a situation or in a position where it is required in any way to apply for the facility. So why apply in those circumstances it doesn’t seem to me to make any sense?”
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on November 22, 2010, 09:24:12 AM
It would bring you close to despair to see nearly a quarter of people here planning to vote for FF in the next election.
Do you not see where they have led us!!???

It's time for people to stop voting along family lines etc. A political party is not like a sports team, you don't have to stick by them no matter what. They are elected to lead the country. When the country is made bankrupt and in billions of euro of debt, they obviously failed in their job, and should be sacked - as in any other business.

I think people also need to take the view of voting for a party, rather than a candidate. e.g. Dara Calleary is a fine TD in Mayo, but I don't want to see FF returned to power, therefore I won't vote for Calleary. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ludermor on November 22, 2010, 09:31:00 AM

The mind boggles is right, how FF are still at 17% is a mystery to me. This Goverment had brought Ireland over the cliff, with the "cute hoor nod and a wink politics". Be under no illusions taht this political shit goes right form the Taoiseach down to the local FF councillor on the town council, be it messing with planning permissions, getting someone the medical card, dole who, for what ever reason was not entitled to it. Dont even get me started on the builders and their state contracts time and time again regardless of the tender submitted (This is know from experience, are you listening Bernard?). Listening to the Radio today, it was stated that NAMA is free from ALL FOI requests under the legislation that set it up. This Gvoernment may be on its last legs but, my kids will have the legacy of our small town solicitors, publicans and teachers who have brought us to ruin.
The sickening thing with Pierse and Mcnamaras going wallop recently is that they have been state funded over the last 2 years as the vast majorty of there work was govenrment (schools, hospitals & service stations). They severely undercut their competitors and were guarenteed payment yet still didnt pay their subbies. And when the next few go the same way ( with Walls, Elliots & Rhatigans aparently next in line) it will be more of the same.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2010, 09:38:22 AM

The mind boggles is right, how FF are still at 17% is a mystery to me. This Goverment had brought Ireland over the cliff, with the "cute hoor nod and a wink politics". Be under no illusions taht this political shit goes right form the Taoiseach down to the local FF councillor on the town council, be it messing with planning permissions, getting someone the medical card, dole who, for what ever reason was not entitled to it. Dont even get me started on the builders and their state contracts time and time again regardless of the tender submitted (This is know from experience, are you listening Bernard?). Listening to the Radio today, it was stated that NAMA is free from ALL FOI requests under the legislation that set it up. This Gvoernment may be on its last legs but, my kids will have the legacy of our small town solicitors, publicans and teachers who have brought us to ruin.
The sickening thing with Pierse and Mcnamaras going wallop recently is that they have been state funded over the last 2 years as the vast majorty of there work was govenrment (schools, hospitals & service stations). They severely undercut their competitors and were guarenteed payment yet still didnt pay their subbies. And when the next few go the same way ( with Walls, Elliots & Rhatigans aparently next in line) it will be more of the same.


there is an urgent need for a stimulus programme to get the economy growing again.
 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Canalman on November 22, 2010, 09:49:55 AM
Imo alot of people will differentiate between the local FF TD and the FF brand. The FF TDs on a personal basis and in general are by far the most personable and charismatic politicians in this state. They will get way more than 17% in the GE , but will lose alot of seats all the same.

SF will benefit alot from this FF dissatisfaction imo as I just can't see alot of FFers voting for FG(with all their historical baggage). They may not see a vote for SF as a "betrayal".

Labour just don't have the charismatic candidates to really exploit their poll ratings into seats.SF candidates likewise.

FF will imo take a beating in the GE, reflect, change the guard and will come storming back.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: DuffleKing on November 22, 2010, 10:02:07 AM

Which one is Fianna Fail ?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on November 22, 2010, 10:14:12 AM
FF died with Sean Lemass, since then they have just been a cabal of Mohair suited gangsters. They fact that they were still able to maintain their control of Irish Politics is a reflection of the awfulness of the opposition. Expect neither of these positions to change  in the short to medium term, as a univocal O Reilly controlled media will combine with them to savage the only radical alternative. But the first speckles of light from a new dawn is slowly becoming visible.

Good post.  I think OReillyCorp will desert FF in the next election - it's a sinking ship, and their (Indo etc.) only purpose is to sell advertising.  There's no rationale I can think of for them to support FF; doing so could conceivably lose them revenue.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2010, 10:16:43 AM
FF died with Sean Lemass, since then they have just been a cabal of Mohair suited gangsters. They fact that they were still able to maintain their control of Irish Politics is a reflection of the awfulness of the opposition. Expect neither of these positions to change  in the short to medium term, as a univocal O Reilly controlled media will combine with them to savage the only radical alternative. But the first speckles of light from a new dawn is slowly becoming visible.

Good post.  I think OReillyCorp will desert FF in the next election - it's a sinking ship, and their (Indo etc.) only purpose is to sell advertising.  There's no rationale I can think of for them to support FF; doing so could conceivably lose them revenue.

The Indo is a fading star. That whole model of theirs is banjaxed.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on November 22, 2010, 11:18:45 AM

The mind boggles is right, how FF are still at 17% is a mystery to me. This Goverment had brought Ireland over the cliff, with the "cute hoor nod and a wink politics". Be under no illusions taht this political shit goes right form the Taoiseach down to the local FF councillor on the town council, be it messing with planning permissions, getting someone the medical card, dole who, for what ever reason was not entitled to it. Dont even get me started on the builders and their state contracts time and time again regardless of the tender submitted (This is know from experience, are you listening Bernard?). Listening to the Radio today, it was stated that NAMA is free from ALL FOI requests under the legislation that set it up. This Government may be on its last legs but, my kids will have the legacy of our small town solicitors, publicans and teachers who have brought us to ruin.
The sickening thing with Pierse and Mcnamaras going wallop recently is that they have been state funded over the last 2 years as the vast majorty of there work was govenrment (schools, hospitals & service stations). They severely undercut their competitors and were guarenteed payment yet still didnt pay their subbies. And when the next few go the same way ( with Walls, Elliots & Rhatigans aparently next in line) it will be more of the same.

2 out of those 3 names you mentioned up in lights this morning according to what i hear. But after working on the largest state infrastructure project in the country for the past 3 years, it amazed me how the most basic employement laws were flouted by the "friends" of FF and other big players. I knew of electricians getting 10 euros an hour on that project , take it or leave it with the unions turing a blind eye to it all. Then when these so called "reputable"sub-contractors are caught out by the failure of these large building companies the unions are in fighting their cause. The mind boggles. I have to say however anyone getting caught for any moey in the current climate needs to have their examined if their QS's on jobs are leaving them exposed for any sum over 1000 euro.

I know that was off topic but i think it highlights the corruption and collusion between the banks, builders, unions and the tendering process of the state for certain projects.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on November 22, 2010, 11:59:57 AM
I am not in the slightest trying to stir sh*t and I am asking this as a serious question in this regard, for the 26 county contingent.

What circumstances must there be before people in the twenty six counties will genuinely give a fiddlers fart about partition of their country? It seems that the prevailing attitudes in the south are either "f**k the nordies" or "ahh a united Ireland would be nice yes, but it's not important".

In the line of work some six months ago, I had cause to meet a national school teacher from Fermanagh who was teaching in Leitrim. He was a very genuine guy, and one who I gathered from the conversation was very active in terms of being part of the SF movement. However he suffered from the same delusion that I think many nordies up there do - he thought that once the North wanted to join with the South, they would be accepted with open arms once that time came. He seemed genuinely upset as I explained that I thought it was way more complicated than that. Quite simply, your second option pretty much sums it up - and when it comes to the actual amalgamation, where either the Nordies have to give up on the NHS and the culture of 50% government employment, or the southerners have to pay the bill for that, there is little or no chance of getting both sides to say yes. It just can't happen.

To tie it back into this thread, people in the south do not care about Ireland - they care about their own corner of it. Given the choice between a politician who wants to put more soup in the pot, or a politician who just wants a bigger spoon for themselves and their constituency, we always choose the latter. Irish voters in Tipperary North couldn't give a flying shi'ite about people in Tipperary South, never mind South Down or Lagan Valley. We care about national sport, and we say we love Ireland, but I can honestly say that I've lost any love or respect for this country as an entity and I'd say most people, if they examine their actions as opposed to their words, would be forced to come to the same conclusion. I love my home county of Offaly as dearly as ever and would love nothing more than to settle down there, but if I have to emigrate, which is more and more likely, I will miss Offaly - I won't miss Ireland.


With regard to the thread topic, the funny thing is that people now have the chance to do the country some real service. At this stage it doesn't matter how much we borrow - there isn't a prayer of it being paid back, so we might as well borrow as much as we can. We're going to default anyway. (The numbers require us to effectively run a 30% surplus every year just to stand still on our national debt - I think we all know the prospects of that happening)

However we do have the chance to actually rid the country of the FF cancer. We talk about the system being broken and it is, but it is broken because they have mastered the art of abusing it. We created a political system designed to give everyone an equal voice, they turned it into a system of self-propagation. Of course it got broken.

But now, we have the chance to cut them off from the oxygen that is power. You won't change a lot of people who are either part of the machine or else pensioners incapable of voting for anyone else, neither can you do anything for those who "just don't like" Enda and can't make the link between the lack of a job and the number one vote they cast in the ballot, but you can keep them down to 20 seats, and then whoever is in has to compound the damage - which requires a few steps.

(1) Hammer into the quangos. Remove most of quangos themselves, and in the remainder get rid of all FF appointees. Bertie appointed his friends - well if their only qualification is being Bertie's friends - boot them out.
(2) Shine a light on every dirty little crevice in this state. State exactly how badly off we are, and make sure people associate it with cronyism, and then let the witchhunt begin. Expand the CAB to take in more corruption cases, change the laws so that the proceeds of criminal activity and bribery can be taken back even after being transferred to spouses or passed on in the case of death, and then investigate every rezoning decision and follow the money. Investigate every planning permission decision. And then hang them from every tree. Make taking a €10k backhander a treasonous offence, and never let them see the light of day again.
(3) Stop protecting dead industry that just has friends in the right places. Unviable small farms living off REPS, bookmakers, publicans, new motor retail, solicitors, all of these sectors have too much froth for all the wrong reasons and they add no value to the economy. Stop subsidising industry because "jobs will be lost" - jobs will follow wherever government money goes - so put it in sensible places.
(4) Change the rules to stop favouring FF's sleveen ways. Political posters add nothing but litter and printing costs - votes should not be cast on the basis of who comes up with the best four word slogan. Ban them. Open the doors to FOI again, which have essentially been closed. Stop the practice of paying for "constituency offices" out of state money. Make using government postal stationary for party political affairs a criminal offence, punishable by loss of seat. Not alone should there be a register of interests, there should be a register of how those interests have been accumulated. Somehow Frank Fahey has gone from being a teacher, to a TD, and accumulated 40 odd properties in the process, worth more than every penny he's ever been paid? Most important of all, make illegal the practice of politicians interfering in basic administration of the state and the hiring of staff. I know two different lads who have been "promised" that when the Guards recruit next, they will be included as long as they don't make an unholy mess of the interview. How many garda transfers, civil service jobs and teaching posts have been given out with the help of nods and winks? This culture has to stop.


I've always used the parallel before that when I was working within the bookmaking industry, the cries for honesty and transparency used to amuse me. Nobody wants honesty and transparency - they just don't want to be the one getting the sharp end of the stick when the favourite gets nobbled and the 10/1 morning shot lands the gamble at 5/2. Irish people don't want a fair game, they just want to be the one with the inside track.

I do think that the time has come to strike while the iron is hot, and take some steps to put an end to that culture. Central  to that is the eradication of FF as a political force for good and for glory, and we've never had a better chance of achieving that than we do right now.




Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 22, 2010, 12:05:54 PM
Well put LS
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on November 22, 2010, 12:34:08 PM
Quote
Irish people don't want a fair game, they just want to be the one with the inside track.

And isn't that the truth?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2010, 01:06:03 PM
I'll be giving Dara Calleary my vote in the next election because he has done lots for North Mayo and has been a sound lad any time I've met him. I won't be giving 2,3,4 to FF though, always base vote on the strength of the individual candidate.
All this is academic actually because I won't be home to vote anyways. Bondi beach in November...emigration can have it's perks :D

I'm sure Dara is a nice guy and he seems well regarded. However he voted with his party on the decisions that have just bankrupted the State. Last week I didn't see him stand up for his county (or country) and demand that Cowen tell us the truth that the IMF were here to bail us out, especially since everyone knew it anyway.

There are nice guys in the McCarthy-Dundon gang as well.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 05:11:09 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 05:12:23 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.
Drumcondra Don still gets his picture taken regularly in his local with visitors. When I see this first hand I say to myself we deserve everything we get.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2010, 05:13:35 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.

The problem with taking a holier than thou position is that you have to stay holy always. No matter how bad the other side are you will be seen to be a hypocrite, even if you only screw up once. Step forward Michael Lowry.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 05:21:55 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.
Drumcondra Don still gets his picture taken regularly in his local with visitors. When I see this first hand I say to myself we deserve everything we get.

I nearly got lynched in there for questioning the glory of the Glorious Leader.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 05:27:37 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.

The problem with taking a holier than thou position is that you have to stay holy always. No matter how bad the other side are you will be seen to be a hypocrite, even if you only screw up once. Step forward Michael Lowry.

Yes very true Muppet, I did temper my declaration, with if Fine Gael and Labour where to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny, all the parties have a few bad eggs, but Fianna Fail is rotten to the core. Micheal Lowry was kicked out of the party ASAP unlike similar FF cases where it took extreme pressure to force members out and many where allowed rejoin the parliamentary party after very short expulsions. One of the characteristics of Fine Gael which has always appealed to me was that they where the Law and Order Party, that fits in with my world view, I believe that they would have kept a better eye on the banks and regulator. That said like all parties they have a few eejits who think they can drink drive and try and bully the Gardai.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 05:52:00 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.
Drumcondra Don still gets his picture taken regularly in his local with visitors. When I see this first hand I say to myself we deserve everything we get.

I nearly got lynched in there for questioning the glory of the Glorious Leader.
Stopped going in there even though its convienient. Just sickens my hole. Never voted for him once even though he landslides home in every General election. And will in this one.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 05:54:33 PM
Just remembering now an experience before I left Ireland. Was having a drink in a quiet pub (not in Castlebar) having a chat to a mate. My friend goes off to the jacks, so I end up ear wigging the group beside me; the conversation was about the economy, the barman and a few regulars (seemed to be) where having a discussion how the only way to get things done in that town had been to join or be seen to support Fianna Fail, they where wondering about their future prospects (it appears they had joined FF for personal advantage). Felt like throwing my pint over them, pure disgusting at the attitude of a large percentage of the Irish population.

 I am so disappointed with the amount of people who will vote Fianna Fail after what they have done to us, it started long before this crises, the corruption and skulduggery has being going on for decades. How the Drumcondra Don is not behind bars I will never know. Some appear to be voting for personalities and others seem to think that if they vote for the party and get a decent enough amount of TD’s they can save the party. That’s the problem; they want to save the party, not the country. If Fine Gael did this to us, I would be calling for them to be disbanded, but it will take a lot for Fine Gael or Labour to get anywhere close to the treachery of the Soldiers of Destiny. In fact FF/Greens will have tied the hands of the next government or even the one after that. I fear that FG or FG/Labour or Labour/SF or FG/Labour/SF will have to deal with this mess and Fianna Fail will come roaring back in the following election under the deluded banner of “the Republican Party”. In Nazi Germany, Soviet Union and Ba'ath Party Iraq they put the party ahead of their countries.
Drumcondra Don still gets his picture taken regularly in his local with visitors. When I see this first hand I say to myself we deserve everything we get.

I nearly got lynched in there for questioning the glory of the Glorious Leader.
Stopped going in there even though its convienient. Just sickens my hole. Never voted for him once even though he landslides home in every General election. And will in this one.

Will he carry Cyprian with him this time ::) How many first preferences did Brady get last time!!!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on November 22, 2010, 08:45:46 PM
I am not in the slightest trying to stir sh*t and I am asking this as a serious question in this regard, for the 26 county contingent.

What circumstances must there be before people in the twenty six counties will genuinely give a fiddlers fart about partition of their country? It seems that the prevailing attitudes in the south are either "f**k the nordies" or "ahh a united Ireland would be nice yes, but it's not important".

In the line of work some six months ago, I had cause to meet a national school teacher from Fermanagh who was teaching in Leitrim. He was a very genuine guy, and one who I gathered from the conversation was very active in terms of being part of the SF movement. However he suffered from the same delusion that I think many nordies up there do - he thought that once the North wanted to join with the South, they would be accepted with open arms once that time came. He seemed genuinely upset as I explained that I thought it was way more complicated than that. Quite simply, your second option pretty much sums it up - and when it comes to the actual amalgamation, where either the Nordies have to give up on the NHS and the culture of 50% government employment, or the southerners have to pay the bill for that, there is little or no chance of getting both sides to say yes. It just can't happen.

To tie it back into this thread, people in the south do not care about Ireland - they care about their own corner of it. Given the choice between a politician who wants to put more soup in the pot, or a politician who just wants a bigger spoon for themselves and their constituency, we always choose the latter. Irish voters in Tipperary North couldn't give a flying shi'ite about people in Tipperary South, never mind South Down or Lagan Valley. We care about national sport, and we say we love Ireland, but I can honestly say that I've lost any love or respect for this country as an entity and I'd say most people, if they examine their actions as opposed to their words, would be forced to come to the same conclusion. I love my home county of Offaly as dearly as ever and would love nothing more than to settle down there, but if I have to emigrate, which is more and more likely, I will miss Offaly - I won't miss Ireland.


With regard to the thread topic, the funny thing is that people now have the chance to do the country some real service. At this stage it doesn't matter how much we borrow - there isn't a prayer of it being paid back, so we might as well borrow as much as we can. We're going to default anyway. (The numbers require us to effectively run a 30% surplus every year just to stand still on our national debt - I think we all know the prospects of that happening)

However we do have the chance to actually rid the country of the FF cancer. We talk about the system being broken and it is, but it is broken because they have mastered the art of abusing it. We created a political system designed to give everyone an equal voice, they turned it into a system of self-propagation. Of course it got broken.

But now, we have the chance to cut them off from the oxygen that is power. You won't change a lot of people who are either part of the machine or else pensioners incapable of voting for anyone else, neither can you do anything for those who "just don't like" Enda and can't make the link between the lack of a job and the number one vote they cast in the ballot, but you can keep them down to 20 seats, and then whoever is in has to compound the damage - which requires a few steps.

(1) Hammer into the quangos. Remove most of quangos themselves, and in the remainder get rid of all FF appointees. Bertie appointed his friends - well if their only qualification is being Bertie's friends - boot them out.
(2) Shine a light on every dirty little crevice in this state. State exactly how badly off we are, and make sure people associate it with cronyism, and then let the witchhunt begin. Expand the CAB to take in more corruption cases, change the laws so that the proceeds of criminal activity and bribery can be taken back even after being transferred to spouses or passed on in the case of death, and then investigate every rezoning decision and follow the money. Investigate every planning permission decision. And then hang them from every tree. Make taking a €10k backhander a treasonous offence, and never let them see the light of day again.
(3) Stop protecting dead industry that just has friends in the right places. Unviable small farms living off REPS, bookmakers, publicans, new motor retail, solicitors, all of these sectors have too much froth for all the wrong reasons and they add no value to the economy. Stop subsidising industry because "jobs will be lost" - jobs will follow wherever government money goes - so put it in sensible places.
(4) Change the rules to stop favouring FF's sleveen ways. Political posters add nothing but litter and printing costs - votes should not be cast on the basis of who comes up with the best four word slogan. Ban them. Open the doors to FOI again, which have essentially been closed. Stop the practice of paying for "constituency offices" out of state money. Make using government postal stationary for party political affairs a criminal offence, punishable by loss of seat. Not alone should there be a register of interests, there should be a register of how those interests have been accumulated. Somehow Frank Fahey has gone from being a teacher, to a TD, and accumulated 40 odd properties in the process, worth more than every penny he's ever been paid? Most important of all, make illegal the practice of politicians interfering in basic administration of the state and the hiring of staff. I know two different lads who have been "promised" that when the Guards recruit next, they will be included as long as they don't make an unholy mess of the interview. How many garda transfers, civil service jobs and teaching posts have been given out with the help of nods and winks? This culture has to stop.


I've always used the parallel before that when I was working within the bookmaking industry, the cries for honesty and transparency used to amuse me. Nobody wants honesty and transparency - they just don't want to be the one getting the sharp end of the stick when the favourite gets nobbled and the 10/1 morning shot lands the gamble at 5/2. Irish people don't want a fair game, they just want to be the one with the inside track.

I do think that the time has come to strike while the iron is hot, and take some steps to put an end to that culture. Central  to that is the eradication of FF as a political force for good and for glory, and we've never had a better chance of achieving that than we do right now.

Great post LS. You've convinced me how I am going to vote now, despite what I had suggested up to now. But whoever takes over needs to change dramatically the system or else it will be more of the same. But a line in the sand does need to be drawn by the people. How bad will it be for FF? Less than 40 seats?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ballinaman on November 22, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
I'll be giving Dara Calleary my vote in the next election because he has done lots for North Mayo and has been a sound lad any time I've met him. I won't be giving 2,3,4 to FF though, always base vote on the strength of the individual candidate.
All this is academic actually because I won't be home to vote anyways. Bondi beach in November...emigration can have it's perks :D

I'm sure Dara is a nice guy and he seems well regarded. However he voted with his party on the decisions that have just bankrupted the State. Last week I didn't see him stand up for his county (or country) and demand that Cowen tell us the truth that the IMF were here to bail us out, especially since everyone knew it anyway.

There are nice guys in the McCarthy-Dundon gang as well.
Thats fair enough. It's a pity though but I can see he's gotta take the hit since he's under the FF banner, only right. Enoy these threads, more insight here than you'd get from any political tv or radio show.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 22, 2010, 09:22:16 PM
I am not in the slightest trying to stir sh*t and I am asking this as a serious question in this regard, for the 26 county contingent.

What circumstances must there be before people in the twenty six counties will genuinely give a fiddlers fart about partition of their country? It seems that the prevailing attitudes in the south are either "f**k the nordies" or "ahh a united Ireland would be nice yes, but it's not important".

In the line of work some six months ago, I had cause to meet a national school teacher from Fermanagh who was teaching in Leitrim. He was a very genuine guy, and one who I gathered from the conversation was very active in terms of being part of the SF movement. However he suffered from the same delusion that I think many nordies up there do - he thought that once the North wanted to join with the South, they would be accepted with open arms once that time came. He seemed genuinely upset as I explained that I thought it was way more complicated than that. Quite simply, your second option pretty much sums it up - and when it comes to the actual amalgamation, where either the Nordies have to give up on the NHS and the culture of 50% government employment, or the southerners have to pay the bill for that, there is little or no chance of getting both sides to say yes. It just can't happen.

To tie it back into this thread, people in the south do not care about Ireland - they care about their own corner of it. Given the choice between a politician who wants to put more soup in the pot, or a politician who just wants a bigger spoon for themselves and their constituency, we always choose the latter. Irish voters in Tipperary North couldn't give a flying shi'ite about people in Tipperary South, never mind South Down or Lagan Valley. We care about national sport, and we say we love Ireland, but I can honestly say that I've lost any love or respect for this country as an entity and I'd say most people, if they examine their actions as opposed to their words, would be forced to come to the same conclusion. I love my home county of Offaly as dearly as ever and would love nothing more than to settle down there, but if I have to emigrate, which is more and more likely, I will miss Offaly - I won't miss Ireland.


With regard to the thread topic, the funny thing is that people now have the chance to do the country some real service. At this stage it doesn't matter how much we borrow - there isn't a prayer of it being paid back, so we might as well borrow as much as we can. We're going to default anyway. (The numbers require us to effectively run a 30% surplus every year just to stand still on our national debt - I think we all know the prospects of that happening)

However we do have the chance to actually rid the country of the FF cancer. We talk about the system being broken and it is, but it is broken because they have mastered the art of abusing it. We created a political system designed to give everyone an equal voice, they turned it into a system of self-propagation. Of course it got broken.

But now, we have the chance to cut them off from the oxygen that is power. You won't change a lot of people who are either part of the machine or else pensioners incapable of voting for anyone else, neither can you do anything for those who "just don't like" Enda and can't make the link between the lack of a job and the number one vote they cast in the ballot, but you can keep them down to 20 seats, and then whoever is in has to compound the damage - which requires a few steps.

(1) Hammer into the quangos. Remove most of quangos themselves, and in the remainder get rid of all FF appointees. Bertie appointed his friends - well if their only qualification is being Bertie's friends - boot them out.
(2) Shine a light on every dirty little crevice in this state. State exactly how badly off we are, and make sure people associate it with cronyism, and then let the witchhunt begin. Expand the CAB to take in more corruption cases, change the laws so that the proceeds of criminal activity and bribery can be taken back even after being transferred to spouses or passed on in the case of death, and then investigate every rezoning decision and follow the money. Investigate every planning permission decision. And then hang them from every tree. Make taking a €10k backhander a treasonous offence, and never let them see the light of day again.
(3) Stop protecting dead industry that just has friends in the right places. Unviable small farms living off REPS, bookmakers, publicans, new motor retail, solicitors, all of these sectors have too much froth for all the wrong reasons and they add no value to the economy. Stop subsidising industry because "jobs will be lost" - jobs will follow wherever government money goes - so put it in sensible places.
(4) Change the rules to stop favouring FF's sleveen ways. Political posters add nothing but litter and printing costs - votes should not be cast on the basis of who comes up with the best four word slogan. Ban them. Open the doors to FOI again, which have essentially been closed. Stop the practice of paying for "constituency offices" out of state money. Make using government postal stationary for party political affairs a criminal offence, punishable by loss of seat. Not alone should there be a register of interests, there should be a register of how those interests have been accumulated. Somehow Frank Fahey has gone from being a teacher, to a TD, and accumulated 40 odd properties in the process, worth more than every penny he's ever been paid? Most important of all, make illegal the practice of politicians interfering in basic administration of the state and the hiring of staff. I know two different lads who have been "promised" that when the Guards recruit next, they will be included as long as they don't make an unholy mess of the interview. How many garda transfers, civil service jobs and teaching posts have been given out with the help of nods and winks? This culture has to stop.


I've always used the parallel before that when I was working within the bookmaking industry, the cries for honesty and transparency used to amuse me. Nobody wants honesty and transparency - they just don't want to be the one getting the sharp end of the stick when the favourite gets nobbled and the 10/1 morning shot lands the gamble at 5/2. Irish people don't want a fair game, they just want to be the one with the inside track.

I do think that the time has come to strike while the iron is hot, and take some steps to put an end to that culture. Central  to that is the eradication of FF as a political force for good and for glory, and we've never had a better chance of achieving that than we do right now.

Great post LS. You've convinced me how I am going to vote now, despite what I had suggested up to now. But whoever takes over needs to change dramatically the system or else it will be more of the same. But a line in the sand does need to be drawn by the people. How bad will it be for FF? Less than 40 seats?

Fantastic post LS. I would tackle the Bertie appointees straight aways in any reform.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ardal on November 22, 2010, 09:34:59 PM
Why vote. Seriously though. Given the choice of drowning in shite or crap, would you really consider there to be much of a difference?

What about getting TRF to stand as a party, and we could all vote for him?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bogball XV on November 22, 2010, 09:59:28 PM
II nearly got lynched in there for questioning the glory of the Glorious Leader.
Stopped going in there even though its convienient. Just sickens my hole. Never voted for him once even though he landslides home in every General election. And will in this one.
I'd be shocked if he stands tbh, Cyprian will have to hope all 927 or whatever who gave him first preference last time, do so again.  That again shows the type of his running mate, mostly they divide the first preferences, but not that weasel.

He has no interest in being there, he only turns up when made to for important votes, he'd be better off on his taoiseach's pension rather than his td salary, and we all know that's the bottom line with him.

I'd love him to stand for president all the same, maybe the news of the world will provide him with posters?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2010, 10:18:18 PM
FF are going to tear themselves apart in bitching and recriminations before the election goes ahead.  So 17% would be best case. The backbenchers are already getting uppity and it is clear that the leadership have no credibility. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 22, 2010, 10:31:08 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 10:39:24 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.
I find it difficult to undulge this concept of the lack of alternative. There  is no thought process. A vote for FF is a vote for corruption no matter what way you dress it up. I've never voted FG or labour before but I'm screwed if i'm voting for Ahern and Co. A vote for an independent is a wasted vote in this election
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 22, 2010, 10:42:42 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.
I find it difficult to undulge this concept of the lack of alternative. There  is no thought process. A vote for FF is a vote for corruption no matter what way you dress it up. I've never voted FG or labour before but I'm screwed if i'm voting for Ahern and Co. A vote for an independent is a wasted vote in this election

Why do you think Fianna Fáil is the only inherently corrupt political party? Why don't other political parties campaign to end the loopholes in the system that encourage corruption, other than the need to avail of those loopholes themselves?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 10:45:53 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.
I find it difficult to undulge this concept of the lack of alternative. There  is no thought process. A vote for FF is a vote for corruption no matter what way you dress it up. I've never voted FG or labour before but I'm screwed if i'm voting for Ahern and Co. A vote for an independent is a wasted vote in this election

Why do you think Fianna Fáil is the only inherently corrupt political party? Why don't other political parties campaign to end the loopholes in the system that encourage corruption, other than the need to avail of those loopholes themselves?
Utterly irrelvent for this election. This is not a political ideology election. It is simple- do you support a party that bankrupted Ireland. If the people of Ireland believe no-one should be sanctioned for it then there is no hope for us.
They have to be shown the door. The others cant do worse.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 22, 2010, 10:49:45 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.
I find it difficult to undulge this concept of the lack of alternative. There  is no thought process. A vote for FF is a vote for corruption no matter what way you dress it up. I've never voted FG or labour before but I'm screwed if i'm voting for Ahern and Co. A vote for an independent is a wasted vote in this election

Why do you think Fianna Fáil is the only inherently corrupt political party? Why don't other political parties campaign to end the loopholes in the system that encourage corruption, other than the need to avail of those loopholes themselves?
Utterly irrelvent for this election. This is not a political ideology election. It is simple- do you support a party that bankrupted Ireland. If the people of Ireland believe no-one should be sanctioned for it then there is no hope for us.
They have to be shown the door. The others cant do worse.

Fair enough Indiana. I think I mentioned that as well in the original post. I just wish someone would say we need to save ourselves from ourselves. God help us all.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 10:53:23 PM
In theory I agree the political ideology in Ireland stinks. But thats because the system stinks. It is utterly focused on local issues rather then national issues. Potholes in a country boreen have nothing to do with running the country effectively.

But for the purposes of this we have to get rid of FF.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 22, 2010, 11:02:49 PM
In theory I agree the political ideology in Ireland stinks. But thats because the system stinks. It is utterly focused on local issues rather then national issues. Potholes in a country boreen have nothing to do with running the country effectively.

But for the purposes of this we have to get rid of FF.

Fair enough. I'm not here to save them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 22, 2010, 11:11:17 PM
The Lone Shark is correct. The country is rotten to the core. Our idea of patriotism goes as far as booing England at the World Cup, and no further. We have no vision to see beyond our own snouts.

Where I disagree is the idea that Fine Gael or Labour are any better. Fine Gael and Labour won't end cronyism - they'll just swap in their own cronies for the FF ones, and then get booted out again when FF come back. Niamh Breatnach had her entire family employed in the Department of Education when she was Minister, unless I'm very mistaken.

I would vote for Fine Gael if they said they were going to clear out the stables. If Fine Gael said the institutions of the state do no serve us, and we need a whole new system of governance, from the county councils up.

Fine Gael are saying nothing of the sort. Enda Kenny hasn't been seen or heard from all week. He's just sitting waiting for power to fall into his lap. This is the man who wants to be leader of the country - why doesn't he lead?

There is only one counter-argument, again mentioned by the Lone Shark. That no matter how distasteful voting Fine Gael / Labour might be, it is the only way to punish a failed Government. That's something I need to think about.

I envy people their certainty. I haven't a bog what to do myself. Other than say that if I could emigrate you wouldn't see me for dust.

Good post.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 22, 2010, 11:50:59 PM
I am not in the slightest trying to stir sh*t and I am asking this as a serious question in this regard, for the 26 county contingent.

What circumstances must there be before people in the twenty six counties will genuinely give a fiddlers fart about partition of their country? It seems that the prevailing attitudes in the south are either "f**k the nordies" or "ahh a united Ireland would be nice yes, but it's not important".

In the line of work some six months ago, I had cause to meet a national school teacher from Fermanagh who was teaching in Leitrim. He was a very genuine guy, and one who I gathered from the conversation was very active in terms of being part of the SF movement. However he suffered from the same delusion that I think many nordies up there do - he thought that once the North wanted to join with the South, they would be accepted with open arms once that time came. He seemed genuinely upset as I explained that I thought it was way more complicated than that. Quite simply, your second option pretty much sums it up - and when it comes to the actual amalgamation, where either the Nordies have to give up on the NHS and the culture of 50% government employment, or the southerners have to pay the bill for that, there is little or no chance of getting both sides to say yes. It just can't happen.

To tie it back into this thread, people in the south do not care about Ireland - they care about their own corner of it. Given the choice between a politician who wants to put more soup in the pot, or a politician who just wants a bigger spoon for themselves and their constituency, we always choose the latter. Irish voters in Tipperary North couldn't give a flying shi'ite about people in Tipperary South, never mind South Down or Lagan Valley. We care about national sport, and we say we love Ireland, but I can honestly say that I've lost any love or respect for this country as an entity and I'd say most people, if they examine their actions as opposed to their words, would be forced to come to the same conclusion. I love my home county of Offaly as dearly as ever and would love nothing more than to settle down there, but if I have to emigrate, which is more and more likely, I will miss Offaly - I won't miss Ireland.


With regard to the thread topic, the funny thing is that people now have the chance to do the country some real service. At this stage it doesn't matter how much we borrow - there isn't a prayer of it being paid back, so we might as well borrow as much as we can. We're going to default anyway. (The numbers require us to effectively run a 30% surplus every year just to stand still on our national debt - I think we all know the prospects of that happening)

However we do have the chance to actually rid the country of the FF cancer. We talk about the system being broken and it is, but it is broken because they have mastered the art of abusing it. We created a political system designed to give everyone an equal voice, they turned it into a system of self-propagation. Of course it got broken.

But now, we have the chance to cut them off from the oxygen that is power. You won't change a lot of people who are either part of the machine or else pensioners incapable of voting for anyone else, neither can you do anything for those who "just don't like" Enda and can't make the link between the lack of a job and the number one vote they cast in the ballot, but you can keep them down to 20 seats, and then whoever is in has to compound the damage - which requires a few steps.

(1) Hammer into the quangos. Remove most of quangos themselves, and in the remainder get rid of all FF appointees. Bertie appointed his friends - well if their only qualification is being Bertie's friends - boot them out.
(2) Shine a light on every dirty little crevice in this state. State exactly how badly off we are, and make sure people associate it with cronyism, and then let the witchhunt begin. Expand the CAB to take in more corruption cases, change the laws so that the proceeds of criminal activity and bribery can be taken back even after being transferred to spouses or passed on in the case of death, and then investigate every rezoning decision and follow the money. Investigate every planning permission decision. And then hang them from every tree. Make taking a €10k backhander a treasonous offence, and never let them see the light of day again.
(3) Stop protecting dead industry that just has friends in the right places. Unviable small farms living off REPS, bookmakers, publicans, new motor retail, solicitors, all of these sectors have too much froth for all the wrong reasons and they add no value to the economy. Stop subsidising industry because "jobs will be lost" - jobs will follow wherever government money goes - so put it in sensible places.
(4) Change the rules to stop favouring FF's sleveen ways. Political posters add nothing but litter and printing costs - votes should not be cast on the basis of who comes up with the best four word slogan. Ban them. Open the doors to FOI again, which have essentially been closed. Stop the practice of paying for "constituency offices" out of state money. Make using government postal stationary for party political affairs a criminal offence, punishable by loss of seat. Not alone should there be a register of interests, there should be a register of how those interests have been accumulated. Somehow Frank Fahey has gone from being a teacher, to a TD, and accumulated 40 odd properties in the process, worth more than every penny he's ever been paid? Most important of all, make illegal the practice of politicians interfering in basic administration of the state and the hiring of staff. I know two different lads who have been "promised" that when the Guards recruit next, they will be included as long as they don't make an unholy mess of the interview. How many garda transfers, civil service jobs and teaching posts have been given out with the help of nods and winks? This culture has to stop.


I've always used the parallel before that when I was working within the bookmaking industry, the cries for honesty and transparency used to amuse me. Nobody wants honesty and transparency - they just don't want to be the one getting the sharp end of the stick when the favourite gets nobbled and the 10/1 morning shot lands the gamble at 5/2. Irish people don't want a fair game, they just want to be the one with the inside track.

I do think that the time has come to strike while the iron is hot, and take some steps to put an end to that culture. Central  to that is the eradication of FF as a political force for good and for glory, and we've never had a better chance of achieving that than we do right now.

I totally disagree with you on reunification. When the time comes and the ballot paper is put in front of southerners the decision will be based on emotional aspects more so than simple fiscal issues. Righting wrong of 100's of years would not pass us by and not even fg would vote against it, so I think you have that one totally wrong. Also, personally I love my country, its people and its history. The problem is policies of greed and ultra capitalism took hold of many and people lost the plot. Maybe hard times will bring back some of the spirit of community that we lost. I love my own county best cos it is home but there are many people and places in this country that I have a gra for.

I agree totally with you on ridding ourselves of the ff vermin and destroying the rotten legacy of quangos they leave behind.

I agree
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 22, 2010, 11:59:47 PM
In theory I agree the political ideology in Ireland stinks. But thats because the system stinks. It is utterly focused on local issues rather then national issues. Potholes in a country boreen have nothing to do with running the country effectively.

But for the purposes of this we have to get rid of FF.

That's a disclaimer and let's them off the hook. The system did not tell the financial regulator to keep his nose out nor did it tell Bertie Ahern to back No5 in the 3.45 in Galway.
its not. FF are parish pump politicians thats why the bastards are so hard to get rid of. National government is not about fixing potholes or traffic problems in dublin. In Ireland it is and it gives useless politicians like healy rae, ahern , lowry etc licence to effect national policy. Frightening to think our future is in the hands of such gombeens
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 23, 2010, 12:11:28 AM

its not. FF are parish pump politicians thats why the b**tards are so hard to get rid of. National government is not about fixing potholes or traffic problems in dublin. In Ireland it is and it gives useless politicians like healy rae, ahern , lowry etc licence to effect national policy. Frightening to think our future is in the hands of such gombeens

If it was about National politics the same people would have been elected and they would have made the same mess of the country. The Parish pump politics is electioneering. If it was based on National politics they would have electioneered another way but they still would have got elected as they have no morals and lies come easily.

I agree that the system should be changed but if it was Ahern would still be sitting in a cloest selling you a British tabloid.

i disagree. you would get fair better quality politics and canditates. The reason its hard to attract quality people is because well educated successful people dont want to campaign on fixing potholes for johnjo. Idiots like healy rae are only too happpy to do so to earn a shed load of money doing sweet feck all.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 12:24:56 AM
I have no intention of turning this into a thread about Irish Unity, but I am writing it in response to issues raised already in the thread, such as SF's poor support in the 26 counties, the dissatisfaction with FF and the repeated posts on the thread saying that political life in this country needs totally overhauled.

While no party would campaign for a no vote, I also am firmly convinced that SF remain the only party who seem genuinely determined to work towards a UI in the south. FF are partitionists and gangsters and FG are just partitionists to their very core. As I have stated earlier, to me it seems that when times were good, people in the 26 couldn't have given a fiddlers about the 6 counties; they had lots of money and their bit of independence from foreign influence and that was all that was important. Now when times are bad, they still don't give a fiddlers about the north because the money has all gone and, once again, it's the money that is the priority. The prevailing attitude is now "ah of course a united Ireland would be nice but it's hardly important" (How is it that Irish freedom was important to people in the south prior to the tan war but not now?) Loyalty and patriotism seem to be of minimal concern, as you say Lone Shark. It is a sorry state of affairs when people are coming onto a message board to say they no longer love their country. As you say LS, most don't care about Ireland, but rather care about their own little corner of it. Any nation of people who hold an attitude like that, and who casually accept the division of their country and consistently vote for parties who, through lack of action, accept the division of their country, are, in my view, destined to be very poorly judged in history.

If the political landscape of Ireland is to be transformed, as many on the thread have expressed a hope about; then

What can we do and how should attitudes change politically?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on November 23, 2010, 03:20:40 AM
Regarding SF's support in the south, they have no support because they are absolute basket cases when it comes ot the economy and any issue really, other than the North. I applaud their willingness to go against the political consensus, but a lot of that is out of habit too - they just don't seem to know how to agree with anything. They make for great political theatre and the little bit of outrage is nice to add to the mix, but I just wish that one of the rational, electable parties would get a bit angry for a change.

However before Nordies get all outraged about the idea that the South might take them in, let me put it this way - we in the South would have to pay much heavier taxes to absorb the cost of the North, simply because there is feck all private sector industry and business up there - it's all government work and more public service. The Irish public service could take on the work of administering the North without anyone at all behind a desk, we'd just need the teachers, nurses and maybe a few guards, and that would do.

So yes, there would be a large chunk of the southern electorate who would tell a pollster that they'd like the idea of a UI, but when it came to the privacy of a voting booth, would tell themselves that it wasn't worth giving up the family holiday, or the new car, or whatever the extra tax would be used for.

However if we flip this beeatch for a minute, how many of the Nordies on this board who are in public sector jobs up there (a good chunk) would still vote to join the south if you knew that the first thing to happen would be that you would lose your job and have to look for private sector work instead? How many people who either have health issues themselves or who have family members with health issues would happily sacrifice the safety net of the NHS to come south? Methinks that there would be enough naysayers to tip the balance of the vote there too.


It is a sorry state of affairs when people are coming onto a message board to say they no longer love their country. As you say LS, most don't care about Ireland, but rather care about their own little corner of it. Any nation of people who hold an attitude like that, and who casually accept the division of their country and consistently vote for parties who, through lack of action, accept the division of their country, are, in my view, destined to be very poorly judged in history.

History will judge us to be the most easily led people since the Germans of the 1930's. Of course I hate this, I hate that someday I will have to explain to my grandkids about how all I did was waffle on a few internet discussion boards, but the sense of helplessness is suffocating.

How to change that attitude? I have honestly no idea.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 23, 2010, 04:12:10 AM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 23, 2010, 08:06:17 AM
Zap-can I get the links to those Irish economists that hae credited the job creation aspect when you get a chance.

Also the one that states that Morgan has been one of the outstanding politicians on economic matters?
Cheers
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 10:32:08 AM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........

Stephenite, I live on the same planet believe it or not. I realise that a UI will only happen by consent, but this doesn't mean it should be ignored by the majority of political parties in Ireland. Parties which portray themselves as republican need to start to develop uirther the All-Ireland aspects of the GFA and work to build support for a UI for when such a time for a referendum might come. Maybe if that happened, people in the south might stop complaining about nordies "harping on" about a UI and decide that they actually think it is worth "harping on" about.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 10:40:34 AM
You beat me too it Zap. SF are certainly one of those parties which tend to receive a disproportionate amount of groundless accusations on most issues, but particularly on the economy. Lone Shark, you are not alone in referring to Gerry Adam's performance in a TV debate three years ago. It is hardly smart politics to use an interview carried out in 2007 to damn an entire party as "unelectable". Closer examination of the facts back up what Zap pointed out. SF have released economic recovery documents north and south (which is the smart way to look at it), and both documents have received significant praise, which is no small achievement in an era like this where opposition parties have freedom to blame and criticise at will.

The TASC Economists Network stated that SF's pre budget submission on economic recovery in the south "is a bold programme to reinvigorate the economy, a programme that understands that employment is key and that the living conditions of low-income households are not an obstacle to growth but rather a pre-condition. In its broad outlines it is worthy of study, debate and support."

It goes on to state that...

 "Sinn Fein provides a sound basis for which to construct stimulus strategies – in terms of their cost and their returns. My real concern is that their robust analysis will be largely unread and ignored in the wider debate."

How true. And all because of a TV interview in 2007.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Geoff Tipps on November 23, 2010, 10:40:58 AM
Zap-can I get the links to those Irish economists that hae credited the job creation aspect when you get a chance.

Also the one that states that Morgan has been one of the outstanding politicians on economic matters?
Cheers

Yeah I'd like to see that too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 23, 2010, 10:50:59 AM
The constituency office of Noel Dempsey ( the one in Trim ) was attacked last night.
Windows were smashed and the work "traitors" was sprayed on the building.

No truth that it was Louth supporters ;)

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 23, 2010, 11:17:42 AM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........

Stephenite, I live on the same planet believe it or not. I realise that a UI will only happen by consent, but this doesn't mean it should be ignored by the majority of political parties in Ireland. Parties which portray themselves as republican need to start to develop uirther the All-Ireland aspects of the GFA and work to build support for a UI for when such a time for a referendum might come. Maybe if that happened, people in the south might stop complaining about nordies "harping on" about a UI and decide that they actually think it is worth "harping on" about.

How is it being ignored, all political parties campaigned for the GFA IIRC, most people assume that their politician are not actively pursuing a United Ireland at the moment because it would be a waste of fecking time. The notion that any referendum held on the matter in the next 20 years is unlikely, the idea that a United Ireland will come to pass in the same timeframe is doubly unlikely in my view, particularly considering the events of the last few weeks.

What exactly is it you're looking for anyway? If you accept the principle of consent you surely must accept that the consent of the Loyalist community is not likely anytime soon, if ever, so what do you want from Southern political parties and people? Weekly press releases demanding reunification, but only when the good people of Ulster are ready? Rallys demanding that reunification occur immediately - even though we've already voted to wait until ye're ready?

If we had a bit less of the condasceding shite on what's worth it and what's not we'd be more inclined to listen, but there's nothing new to listen to, same auld shite day after day.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2010, 11:53:34 AM
FF have really collapsed over the last week. Watching Pat Rabbitte on thursday then Biffo snarling then the evasions ,even Lenihan caught on the hop yesterday. What an implosion.

Had to laugh at some muppet backbencher from Cork on the news yesterday saying Cowen had damaged the economy. You all did you thick FF f***er. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: glens abu on November 23, 2010, 12:00:02 PM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........

Stephenite, I live on the same planet believe it or not. I realise that a UI will only happen by consent, but this doesn't mean it should be ignored by the majority of political parties in Ireland. Parties which portray themselves as republican need to start to develop uirther the All-Ireland aspects of the GFA and work to build support for a UI for when such a time for a referendum might come. Maybe if that happened, people in the south might stop complaining about nordies "harping on" about a UI and decide that they actually think it is worth "harping on" about.

How is it being ignored, all political parties campaigned for the GFA IIRC, most people assume that their politician are not actively pursuing a United Ireland at the moment because it would be a waste of fecking time. The notion that any referendum held on the matter in the next 20 years is unlikely, the idea that a United Ireland will come to pass in the same timeframe is doubly unlikely in my view, particularly considering the events of the last few weeks.

What exactly is it you're looking for anyway? If you accept the principle of consent you surely must accept that the consent of the Loyalist community is not likely anytime soon, if ever, so what do you want from Southern political parties and people? Weekly press releases demanding reunification, but only when the good people of Ulster are ready? Rallys demanding that reunification occur immediately - even though we've already voted to wait until ye're ready?

If we had a bit less of the condasceding shite on what's worth it and what's not we'd be more inclined to listen, but there's nothing new to listen to, same auld shite day after day.

Take me home to Mayo,Oh my God :-[
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Stall the Bailer on November 23, 2010, 12:00:09 PM
I would like that all Irish passport holders North and South, would have opportunity to vote in the president elections.
That the North/South body be made into a proper electable forum. With elections on both sides of the border. This body would have control and funds over everything that is of national importance, e.g. Tourism Ireland, Waterway Ireland, energy integration, national infrastructure, mobile phone coverage, TV transmission etc.
Basically anything that would benefit people on both sides the border, would be governed by this body. It would also have remit to look at what future bodies could be intergraded.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 12:10:55 PM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........

Stephenite, I live on the same planet believe it or not. I realise that a UI will only happen by consent, but this doesn't mean it should be ignored by the majority of political parties in Ireland. Parties which portray themselves as republican need to start to develop uirther the All-Ireland aspects of the GFA and work to build support for a UI for when such a time for a referendum might come. Maybe if that happened, people in the south might stop complaining about nordies "harping on" about a UI and decide that they actually think it is worth "harping on" about.

How is it being ignored, all political parties campaigned for the GFA IIRC, most people assume that their politician are not actively pursuing a United Ireland at the moment because it would be a waste of fecking time. The notion that any referendum held on the matter in the next 20 years is unlikely, the idea that a United Ireland will come to pass in the same timeframe is doubly unlikely in my view, particularly considering the events of the last few weeks.

What exactly is it you're looking for anyway? If you accept the principle of consent you surely must accept that the consent of the Loyalist community is not likely anytime soon, if ever, so what do you want from Southern political parties and people? Weekly press releases demanding reunification, but only when the good people of Ulster are ready? Rallys demanding that reunification occur immediately - even though we've already voted to wait until ye're ready?

If we had a bit less of the condasceding shite on what's worth it and what's not we'd be more inclined to listen, but there's nothing new to listen to, same auld shite day after day.

What would I like? Personally to never have to see partitionists in government. That all aspects of North/South co-operation outlined in the GFA which have STILL not been implemented would be seen as a priority for implementation by southern politicians, that other All-Ireland areas of co-operation would be pounced upon as an opportunity and not routinely ignored. The Irish President is from County Down and yet her own County men and women were unable to vote for her. This is someting the "Republican Party" of FF have been lobbied upon for years and something they have routinely refused to do anything about. Partitionism. Another FF politician referred to people from the south who shopped in Newry as "unpatriotic".  Partitionism.

The principle of consent is one that is established however, as has been noted by LS, many in the south would likely, in the secrecy of a voting booth, vote against a UI in favour of saving a few cents. What I would like is for more people to be remember that if so many died for independence, what is a few cents in terms of a sacrifice in comparison? What I would like especially is for the mindset to change whereby people in the 26 counties would cease to see Irish people in the six counties as different and would cease to refer to people as "nordies" or "them up north" or "brits" (as I have been referred to on several occasions when in the 26 counties). I am not attempting to be condescending, I am merely speaking from my experience. While I was travelling in various countries, I always referred to people I met from Ireland in terms of being from "County .....", where as those in the south always talked about me as not being from County Tyrone, but as being a "nordie". It's a mindset that I for one would like to see changed.

As I say, this isn't an attempt to change the discussion of the thread, but rather furthering the debate on how the political life in Ireland could be reformed.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 12:14:03 PM
Zap-can I get the links to those Irish economists that hae credited the job creation aspect when you get a chance.

Also the one that states that Morgan has been one of the outstanding politicians on economic matters?
Cheers

Yeah I'd like to see that too.

I'm not trying to speak for Zap, but he didn't say that anybody "stated" that Arthur Morgan was one of the best TDs on the issue. He was stating his own view, so why ask for a link?

As for a link to economists praising SF's economic recovery strategy, then read my post at 10:40am.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rossie mad on November 23, 2010, 12:17:34 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on November 23, 2010, 12:19:33 PM
You beat me too it Zap. SF are certainly one of those parties which tend to receive a disproportionate amount of groundless accusations on most issues, but particularly on the economy. Lone Shark, you are not alone in referring to Gerry Adam's performance in a TV debate three years ago. It is hardly smart politics to use an interview carried out in 2007 to damn an entire party as "unelectable".

There's quite a lot of irony in the fact that you've just presumed that my analysis is flawed because it's based on a lack of research, and yet you can't even be arsed to read my post and realise that I never mentioned Gerry Adams in any of my posts. Why would I, he's not elected in the south and is nothing to do with economics? Cut out the straw man stuff, it's a good debate here without playing cheap tricks like that.

The reason why I dismiss SF's economic policy is because while a lot of it makes sense, there is still populist, electioneering shite in there that just undermines their credibility. For example, and this is taken from SF's website today:

Quote from: Sinn Féin's Economic Policy
The banks must now be forced to impose a moratorium on home repossessions for a minimum of two years.

Banks must support struggling mortgage holders - by rescheduling repayments and allowing movement from fixed to variable rates without financial penalties. Banks must be obliged to make loans available to small and medium businesses. Viable businesses and jobs will be lost if the credit drought is not resolved quickly.  We cannot allow enterprise and workers to suffer at the hands of self centred and self seeking banking practices.

The banks must pay back the taxpayers money while working in the state’s interest.

So the banks, which are broke, should allow people who in some cases can't but in many cases won't pay their mortgage, live rent free for two years while the value of the already inadequate security on the loan deteriorates, they should also allow people who signed up to contracts but don't feel like paying them any more move over to a better deal, and they should be forced to give out money to "small business", no doubt at fair rates, all at a time when they have no money to lend out, when the risk is high and when they themselves can only borrow at 5% through a state supported mechanism, and nearly 10% if they had to do it on the free market?

And they should do all this, while paying back the state's investment? Unless there's a hidden bit in there about confiscating all savings to pay for it, that's just populist gibberish.


Public sector pay is currently running at over 65% of out tax income - a ludicrous and utterly unsustainable position. Sinn Féin's view? http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17914. (http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17914.) That it should be more.

After the social welfare cuts, Sinn Féin protested, saying there was a better way. Their better way? A few harmless tax increases detailed on their website that would raise about a totla of €3bn at most by any rational economic analysis. Worthy certainly, but far from adequate. At the same time their jobs strategy suggests spending more:

€300m on a jobs retention fund for SMEs
Reducing "stealth" taxes on business - which will either be of no value, or cost money
Establish about 12 new quangos on page three alone
Increased building and refurbishment for schools
More work on insulating the housing stock

However here's the real chestnut:
Quote
Use the public sector and direct public employment, • to kick start the economy. This makes sense now in the same way as the Works Progress Administration (WPA) did in the 1930’s in America. The WPA had the affect of stimulating the private sector during the depression years and focused on tangiable improvements (roads, highways, streets, bridges, public buildings, parks, reviving forest, and rural electrification). Areas that could be focused on would include energy efficiency measures, infrastructure and high-speed boradband rollout.


So the answer to an economy with too many public servants and too high a public wage bill, is still more public servants?

Everyone likes to talk this "stimulus" keynesian stuff, but that's all predicated on economies having multiplier ratios of 2 or higher. We are a small open economy where a huge chunk of the stuff we spend our money on every day, is imported. We have a multiplier ratio of under 1. In that scenario, stimulus policies are simply daft.


I'm not saying the other parties are flawless here, but I do take offence at the patronising view that if I disagree with you, it must be because I'm lazy and that I've drawn a load of conclusions from one TV show. If you disagree that's fine, but play the ball, not the man.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on November 23, 2010, 12:30:58 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
thats it in a nutshell. and its why this country is fucked unfortunately. very well put though.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on November 23, 2010, 12:33:56 PM

The principle of consent is one that is established however, as has been noted by LS, many in the south would likely, in the secrecy of a voting booth, vote against a UI in favour of saving a few cents. What I would like is for more people to be remember that if so many died for independence, what is a few cents in terms of a sacrifice in comparison? What I would like especially is for the mindset to change whereby people in the 26 counties would cease to see Irish people in the six counties as different and would cease to refer to people as "nordies" or "them up north" or "brits" (as I have been referred to on several occasions when in the 26 counties).

Cheap debating trick again. If I'm the father in a family and we can barely pay the mortgage, and so decide not to go to Disneyland with the kids next year - am I depriving my kids of happiness for the sake of "a few cents"?

This is not about the loose change at the bottom of our pocket. This is about another huge expense when we're already unable to pay the bills we have. In all this I stress that I'm not saying how I'd vote, merely that I think that the country as a whole would vote to leave the North where it is in the secrecy of the ballot box.

I note you chose to ignore my counterargument - if ye were allowed come south, but all public servants would have to go on the dole or find private sector employment, and the NHS would cease to exist so ye'd be forking out thousands in health insurance while also not getting treated for existing conditions - do you think the northern population would just look on their living wage as "a few cents?"

Incidentally I never realised that people from the six counties were offended at the term Nordie - I picked it up from this board so I presumed it was inoffensive - my apologies for that, genuinely.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rossie mad on November 23, 2010, 12:46:06 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
thats it in a nutshell. and its why this country is fucked unfortunately. very well put though.

Just telling it has it is.i will vote for someone in the national interest once our sysytem provides for that but at the moment its the person who will get the most done for my local community and region as a whole who will get it.
Am i unpatriotic?Maybe but so is the majority.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 23, 2010, 01:55:01 PM
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2010/11/23/trim-county-meath-no-longer-a-fianna-fail-town/ (http://www.broadsheet.ie/2010/11/23/trim-county-meath-no-longer-a-fianna-fail-town/)

Shows the value of our education system I suppose - Illiterate protesters
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 23, 2010, 02:08:22 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
thats it in a nutshell. and its why this country is fucked unfortunately. very well put though.

Just telling it has it is.i will vote for someone in the national interest once our sysytem provides for that but at the moment its the person who will get the most done for my local community and region as a whole who will get it.
Am i unpatriotic?Maybe but so is the majority.

I don't think you're unpatriotic Rossie. You're using the system to your own best advantage.

The problem is that the system suits the individual and not the greater good. And that's why it needs reform.

That's the point I was trying to make last night. An anti-FF vote doesn't change anything, other than punish the current Government. The problem is bigger than deeper than just one Government or just one political party.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2010, 02:11:20 PM
The problem with the system as it works in Roscommon is that it is broken.

Brian Lenihan might be a great man for the funerals but the IMF don't go to funerals.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on November 23, 2010, 02:18:17 PM
LoneShark, Apologies if it seems I was accusing you specifically of using the Adams interview as an excuse to term SF as "unelectable". I genuinely am not attempting to play the man, as you say. I also would point out to you that most of my posts of late mention that I agree with you on most areas, so I have no intention of attacking you personally. You are not a WUM and thats all that matters. I meant it in terms that there has been a consessus developed over the past three years that SF are hopeless on economics based simply on the Adams interview of three years ago. You need only go back through recent threads here and through the papers of the past week and you will see it STILL being regourgetated as an excuse to write off SF as being "unelectable". No party is ever going to put forward proposals which you, I, or anyone else will wholeheartedly support. As TASC puts it, "put 100 progressives in a room, all working to the same strategy (an expansionary fiscal strategy) and they will come up with 100 different pre-budget submissions and a heated debate about some of the details. But as Franklin Roosevelt put it: ‘There are many ways to go forward, there’s only way to stand still.’ If one has a disagreement with the particulars of Sinn Fein’s submission, it is a disagreement within go-forward parameters. If only the national debate was so framed." What seems stupid in the extreme to one person can seem inspired, inovative thinking to another. My point is that if one group of economists described SF's recent economic recovery document as one which is "worthy of study, debate and support", is it not a bit harsh to describe that party as "unelectable". Surely if that makes SF unelectable, what is FF (who will proceed to romp over SF in the election)?

As for the UI debate, I, if in a public sector job, would happily give it up for a UI in the knowledge that I would go to any lengths to get a new job in a UI, (possibly public sector again). I realise many would not and wouldn't hold it against them, but my question on Irish Unity/Independence came about from my point that, to those in the south, a UI is always going to be on the back foot. Money is the excuse now, but when times were "good" and the money flowed, what was the excuse for the lack of interest in All-Ireland development/Irish Unity? It seems, from where I'm standing anyway, that the north was not important when times were good as it was forgotten about, and not important when times are bad, because money is again the influence. I just want to know what it is that makes Irish people in the south, no matter what the economic climate, so uncaring about the continued division of their country? Does patriotism or loyalty not come into it? It is in this framework that I regard the term "nordie" as horrible. I would refer to a meath man (for example) as being from Meath, but nine times out of ten, he will refer to me as being a "nordie" or "from up north" rather than as a Tyrone man. It is this inherent, subconscious, casual differentiating of Irish people in the six counties in such a partitionist manner which insults me most. The term "nordie" is that attitude represented in a single word to me.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Puckoon on November 23, 2010, 02:35:36 PM
As for the UI debate, I, if in a public sector job, would happily give it up for a UI in the knowledge that I would go to any lengths to get a new job in a UI, (possibly public sector again). I realise many would not and wouldn't hold it against them, but my question on Irish Unity/Independence came about from my point that, to those in the south, a UI is always going to be on the back foot. Money is the excuse now, but when times were "good" and the money flowed, what was the excuse for the lack of interest in All-Ireland development/Irish Unity? It seems, from where I'm standing anyway, that the north was not important when times were good as it was forgotten about, and not important when times are bad, because money is again the influence. I just want to know what it is that makes Irish people in the south, no matter what the economic climate, so uncaring about the continued division of their country? Does patriotism or loyalty not come into it? It is in this framework that I regard the term "nordie" as horrible. I would refer to a meath man (for example) as being from Meath, but nine times out of ten, he will refer to me as being a "nordie" or "from up north" rather than as a Tyrone man. It is this inherent, subconscious, casual differentiating of Irish people in the six counties in such a partitionist manner which insults me most. The term "nordie" is that attitude represented in a single word to me.

Fascinating stuff lads, in the midst of all the doom and gloom there has been some thrououghly enjoyable reading (for want of a better word), so excuse me for joining in.

Nally - I can't speak for the people in the south (some might even say I can't speak for the people in the north) - but would it not occur to you that the desire for Irish freedom has become diluted to many people in many areas of Ireland? People are changing, becoming more self involved and less parochial. Traditional Irish values are falling by the way - Family, church, community being replaced with SUV's, second homes and vested self interests. The drive for the biggest, brightest and new 'everything' is getting in the way of what used to matter to people. This more than likely applies to the desire of the people to work towards a united Ireland. Everyone wants a beach body - not too many are willing to sacrafice the fish and chips, the pints at the weekend, nor do the 300 sit ups a day it requires to get it.  Its human nature - the longer a status quo (that isn't killing anyone) continues, the more generations that go through it - the less drive people are going to have to put in the work to change it. You have an entire voting generation now who grew up glued to mario kart and play stations and MTV and other such mind rotting nonsense. Can you honestly think they give a monkeys about unification? I know you are a dyed in the wool republican, so it wouldn't be an acceptable way of thinking to someone with your convictions - but I am sure you can at least understand why "the north is not important" to many in the south currently. The longer the status quo goes, and the less the tangible benefits of unification become obvious (or the more it appears it is going to cost the south), then the attitude will only grow stronger I believe. For better or for worse.

Regarding the "nordies" - it's been my experience that only the wind up merchants on here use it. I don't think in all my time meeting anyone from the south that I have ever been called a nordie. A tyronie - maybe. Never a nordie - but there is a first time for everything.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rossie mad on November 23, 2010, 02:36:21 PM
The problem with the system as it works in Roscommon is that it is broken.

Brian Lenihan might be a great man for the funerals but the IMF don't go to funerals.

Thats the thing though seafoid until it starts effecting our regions outside our frontdoor we wont care and in reality like alot of regions the IMF conditions wont dramatically effect our everyday lifes so we wont care in three months time.
There is no difference between galway and roscommon in that respect or any other rural region for that matter.

We voted 166 TDs and will again in 10 weeks or whenever.
There will be very little difference to what takes over from FF only that the change might be refreshing for the country and bring some positivity and that in itself will be worth it.

We have to take the blame as much as we are blaming the politicians.
We put them there and will again so unless our political system is changed this system will fail us again at some stage but i dont think to the same extent in so far as we should learn our lesson plus our european cousins will be keeping a keen eye on us for many years to come and will give us the odd rap around the knuckles when we step out of line.

FF are cute they want this budget around the next goverments neck and in 5 years when the next election is up for grabs they will be up on the high moral ground again.
Mark my words and whats more they will be in the goverment after this one whether it hurts people to hear that or not its a very real possibility because people in this country are fickle and once the carrot is put in front of theim they will follow.

One other point the next goverment will probably disolve in 2015/early 2016 and the 100th anniversary of the Rising will be on.
Fiannan Fail will do their damnest to be in goverment for that celebration as it will be the biggest PR stunt this country will have seen.
 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2010, 03:11:43 PM
The problem with the system as it works in Roscommon is that it is broken.

Brian Lenihan might be a great man for the funerals but the IMF don't go to funerals.

Thats the thing though seafoid until it starts effecting our regions outside our frontdoor we wont care and in reality like alot of regions the IMF conditions wont dramatically effect our everyday lifes so we wont care in three months time. There is no difference between galway and roscommon in that respect or any other rural region for that matter. We voted 166 TDs and will again in 10 weeks or whenever.
There will be very little difference to what takes over from FF only that the change might be refreshing for the country and bring some positivity and that in itself will be worth it. We have to take the blame as much as we are blaming the politicians.
We put them there and will again so unless our political system is changed this system will fail us again at some stage but i dont think to the same extent in so far as we should learn our lesson plus our european cousins will be keeping a keen eye on us for many years to come and will give us the odd rap around the knuckles when we step out of line.

FF are cute they want this budget around the next goverments neck and in 5 years when the next election is up for grabs they will be up on the high moral ground again. Mark my words and whats more they will be in the goverment after this one whether it hurts people to hear that or not its a very real possibility because people in this country are fickle and once the carrot is put in front of theim they will follow. One other point the next goverment will probably disolve in 2015/early 2016 and the 100th anniversary of the Rising will be on.
Fiannan Fail will do their damnest to be in goverment for that celebration as it will be the biggest PR stunt this country will have seen.

Everywhere in Ireland is the same . How many supposedly "modern" Dublin people voted FF last time FFS ?
I don't share the optimism about Ireland going through a short term crisis.  FG+?  are going to have to clear up one hell of a FF mess.
 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on November 23, 2010, 03:47:03 PM
Nally Stand, I accept I may have over-reacted a tad there, and certainly I agree completely that if the other parties were to be so honest as to put forth proper economic proposals, I'm sure I'd find fault there too.

I suppose my point is that like it or not, Sinn Féin are starting from a base whereby they had no credibility economically, and the Gerry Adams interview was just a small part of that. And like the old phrase that if you get a reputation as an early riser you can stay in bed all day, so it is with economic policy - SF have a reputation for neo-socialism that doesn't add up, and thus they have to work doubly hard to shed that reputation.

Also, when I say unelectable, I say this for two reasons. One, because their policies aren't remotely close to being plausible enough to win my vote (and I'm in a constituency that will be a huge target for SF), and secondly, the majority of voters won't even dig that deep and will just remember Adams floundering on TV. You have to remember this is not an electorate who as a rule spends a couple of hours on google researching the positions of candidates and parties on certain issues. As we've seen in spades on this thread, we vote for the local concierge, the guy who shook hands at the funeral, the guy who made the planning permission objection go away. 

As regards the point as to why the South doesn't care about unity, I do generally believe it's because we don't care about anything bar our own corner of the country. While we might all profess to love Ireland, but we don't really and the fact that we just accept the desecration of our society by these schysters without any real reaction says everything that needs to be said.

I would be tempted to say to those in the occupied counties that if ye got to know what Ireland has really become, ye wouldn't love it either. To use a phrase from some old film or book, I can't place which one; "it is but a shadow that you love".
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rossie mad on November 23, 2010, 03:51:14 PM
Exactly but your missing my point.
The same people will vote for them again in 5 years time because they will be sick of dreary budget after dreary budget and then their spin doctors will work the media and low and behold they are promising the sun,moon and stars again and the irish people start seeing their pockets being lined and their suddenly back voting for them.

This crisis is major but alot of people are putting up with it because they are sacrificing and getting on.
So the IMF decisions in the next three months is not going to effect the normal lives of most people because at this stage they dont care anymore the attitude is right lets get this shower out do what we have to and move on.
IMF,Bondholders,central banks and eurozones are the least on peoples minds at the moment because its jobs,families,mortgages,bills which are to the forefront in everyones mind and the are doing what has to be done to get by and thats enough in their mind.
The luxeries of boom years are gone and in some respect it is no harm because we lived way beyond our means without saying stop hold on will this last?
But we didint care because we were all having a great standard of living.

Im on a three day week since may.We have no home only a small rented house.She is temporary and we have one chisler with anothe one on the way.
Our future doesnt look great but we are getting by.
We got word of a staff meeting called for 21st December so thats ominous.
Im not playing any sympathy card as im probably in a better situation than alot of others but just outlining the plight of many others like me

However thats the situation of tens of thousands of people and that will not change for maybe two to three years at least.
You see people worry about their own problems first and the IMF and europe are just something to watch on the news and give out about.
If we were so worried about it why arent we marching in our thousands?
Our attitude is fickle we get by and we will be happy.
We are a nation of Me Feiners its in our blood.We reap what we sow and so we must take a share of the blame whether we like to hear it or not.




Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: EddieMerx on November 23, 2010, 04:11:23 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 23, 2010, 04:20:13 PM
Local or not have a think about this and what FF have done to the country. We are here in a dreadful mess by them spouting the nonsense about the bank bailout and NAMA etc. Everything they did to date was about as wrong as it could be.

Explain in simple word how we could service a 250-300 Billion national debt?

It could be an interest payment alone that is larger than the tax take of the country. If your debt is greater than GDP and your interest rate is large than your growth rate you are bankrupt. Do the maths. It is not a good idea, we are not going to get anywhere pretending things are better than they are.

The banks cannot be saved, we are merely aiming to remain legacy private debt while being politically blackmailed to do so. It is nonsense.

Eddie is right to be on his bike

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on November 23, 2010, 04:21:09 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.

To be honest I'm sick to the teeth of the bleeding heart emigrationists with their passport in their paw bleating on about how awful we all are while like all good rats they look  to jump ship when the going gets tough. The real people of value to this country are those who remain to work through the crap we are in, some by choice other s by lack of it, but all contributing in a real way to the improvement of this island.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 23, 2010, 04:24:59 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.

To be honest I'm sick to the teeth of the bleeding heart emigrationists with their passport in their paw bleating on about how awful we all are while like all good rats they look  to jump ship when the going gets tough. The real people of value to this country are those who remain to work through the crap we are in, some by choice other s by lack of it, but all contributing in a real way to the improvement of this island.

So fearglasmor are you a child, a student, employed, retired, independently wealthy or on the dole?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: J70 on November 23, 2010, 04:29:12 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
thats it in a nutshell. and its why this country is fucked unfortunately. very well put though.

Just telling it has it is.i will vote for someone in the national interest once our sysytem provides for that but at the moment its the person who will get the most done for my local community and region as a whole who will get it.
Am i unpatriotic?Maybe but so is the majority.

I don't think you're unpatriotic Rossie. You're using the system to your own best advantage.

The problem is that the system suits the individual and not the greater good. And that's why it needs reform.

That's the point I was trying to make last night. An anti-FF vote doesn't change anything, other than punish the current Government. The problem is bigger than deeper than just one Government or just one political party.

I know there's not much to distinguish the major Irish political parties in terms of domestic issues such as economics and thus voting for the local fellow who got the backroad tarred makes little difference, usually, in terms of Dail policies, but surely anyone with FF after their name should be anathema this time around, no matter what favour they did you! I'm from the same area as Mary Coughlin, and while she's very involved locally and obviously a source of pride for the area in ascending to Tanaiste, the only thing that should matter is her role in the government that oversaw this mess. She's in the Dail to legislate and govern, not to pull strings or do favours or make appearances. People need to cop on that the makeup of the Dail can actually have consequences in their own lives.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 23, 2010, 04:30:03 PM
Answering the title of the thread i wont be doing it in this election.

Im a member of the FF party a delegate i think is my so called official title.
Ive never attended ard fheis but ive been at cumann and convention meetings.
Ive voted for them in the past but generally not all the time.
The reason im a delegate is well im carrying on a family tradition so that suits me fine.

I will be voting for a candidate from another party in the next election for the simple reason is this man helped three years ago when i needed help and it got me out of a hole at the time so thats why im voting for him.

You see thats politics in Ireland its local issues first national issues second followed by international issues.
We down here dont care what happens in dublin or cork no more than most people in dublin or cork dont care what happens down here.
Thats fact no matter what people say.

If we did care about the national interest we would be out in hundreds of thousands months ago with whats gone on in the past but you see we are just worried about our loacal issues like our local hospitals,roads,churches and whatever else we have that is on our doorstep thats why the protests only make it as far as the local town square.

I can guarentee you if this was any other european country there would be widescale protests and shutdowns but we are too me fein to do this.

About 7 or 8 years ago 100,000 people marched in dublin against the war in iraq.
Most of the people on that march didnt have some strong burning conviction against the war they just did cause it was the cool thing to do at the time and the anti US/Bush sentitiment was the feeling at the time.
Once the goverment line of the USA means jobs in ireland our protests dwindled fairly rapidly.

Ill give you one more example of local politics.
My maternal uncle died suddenly early this year and my mothers family is strong FG and my fathers is very strong FF.
Anyway all the top brass from the FG party within the county from TDs down to local party activists tirned up at he funeral while only the small fry from the FF party only turned up simply probably more out of friendship with my father more so than electioneering.
The FG delegation knew votes were to be had and were making sure they were safe guarding them.
Thats the way it is down here you see you are either one or the other there is very few in between all though it is changing slowly which is good.

Thats irish politics in a nutshell and until it is changed with local issues being dealt with locally and the national interest actually being dealt with first by an elected goverment well then im afraid ill be voting for the man/woman who helps get my potholes fixed and not because their economic policies make me feel good.
That will be the view of the majority who vote next year.
thats it in a nutshell. and its why this country is fucked unfortunately. very well put though.

Just telling it has it is.i will vote for someone in the national interest once our sysytem provides for that but at the moment its the person who will get the most done for my local community and region as a whole who will get it.
Am i unpatriotic?Maybe but so is the majority.

I don't think you're unpatriotic Rossie. You're using the system to your own best advantage.

The problem is that the system suits the individual and not the greater good. And that's why it needs reform.

That's the point I was trying to make last night. An anti-FF vote doesn't change anything, other than punish the current Government. The problem is bigger than deeper than just one Government or just one political party.

Well I think he is being stupid and narrowminded. Taking the crumbs thrown from the table while the rest of us starve. Like the bishops used to take the few pennys from the landlord to keep the peasants quiet. The system may be wrong, corrupt and all the rest but does that excuse you morally of abusing it further?

An Anti FF vote does more than "punish" FF, it also gives a mandate to a new government in new times. And punishment is an important thing here too, when people fail in their jobs they need to be accountable. The bigger and harder the fall for FF the better it will be for Ireland as it shows the next government what happens when money, banks, greed and vested interests are put ahead of the people.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: EddieMerx on November 23, 2010, 04:36:46 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.

To be honest I'm sick to the teeth of the bleeding heart emigrationists with their passport in their paw bleating on about how awful we all are while like all good rats they look  to jump ship when the going gets tough. The real people of value to this country are those who remain to work through the crap we are in, some by choice other s by lack of it, but all contributing in a real way to the improvement of this island.

Maybe we should all stay and add an extra couple of hundred thousand to the live register?? Calling people Rats for looking to earn a living is a nice way to carry yourself.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 23, 2010, 04:45:45 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.

To be honest I'm sick to the teeth of the bleeding heart emigrationists with their passport in their paw bleating on about how awful we all are while like all good rats they look  to jump ship when the going gets tough. The real people of value to this country are those who remain to work through the crap we are in, some by choice other s by lack of it, but all contributing in a real way to the improvement of this island.

Maybe we should all stay and add an extra couple of hundred thousand to the live register?? Calling people Rats for looking to earn a living is a nice way to carry yourself.

Ulick was making similar comments a few pages back, isn't it a great country, a government that wants 40,000 to leave a year, 450,000 on the dole and Irishmen call those who don't want to add to the dole queues rats and the likes.  >:(
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on November 23, 2010, 04:51:35 PM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 23, 2010, 05:00:10 PM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.

Jesus Bananaman. You could be onto something there. It's as good a plan as any other I've heard this week.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 23, 2010, 05:04:07 PM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.

NI dole is only 60 GBP per week, no?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 23, 2010, 05:06:47 PM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.

NI dole is only 60 GBP per week, no?

Didn't want to be the one to point out the hole in the plan  ;D Now forget the dole, if you have jobs we could do up there, I reckon your plan might be on to something.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mc_grens on November 23, 2010, 07:26:37 PM

The principle of consent is one that is established however, as has been noted by LS, many in the south would likely, in the secrecy of a voting booth, vote against a UI in favour of saving a few cents. What I would like is for more people to be remember that if so many died for independence, what is a few cents in terms of a sacrifice in comparison? What I would like especially is for the mindset to change whereby people in the 26 counties would cease to see Irish people in the six counties as different and would cease to refer to people as "nordies" or "them up north" or "brits" (as I have been referred to on several occasions when in the 26 counties).

Cheap debating trick again. If I'm the father in a family and we can barely pay the mortgage, and so decide not to go to Disneyland with the kids next year - am I depriving my kids of happiness for the sake of "a few cents"?

This is not about the loose change at the bottom of our pocket. This is about another huge expense when we're already unable to pay the bills we have. In all this I stress that I'm not saying how I'd vote, merely that I think that the country as a whole would vote to leave the North where it is in the secrecy of the ballot box.

I note you chose to ignore my counterargument - if ye were allowed come south, but all public servants would have to go on the dole or find private sector employment, and the NHS would cease to exist so ye'd be forking out thousands in health insurance while also not getting treated for existing conditions - do you think the northern population would just look on their living wage as "a few cents?"

Incidentally I never realised that people from the six counties were offended at the term Nordie - I picked it up from this board so I presumed it was inoffensive - my apologies for that, genuinely.

I absolutely agree. As a Derry man living in Dublin I've commented before on here that I truly believe that were it put to a referendum in the the South they would vote NOT to take back Northern Ireland from the British.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bogball XV on November 23, 2010, 07:30:15 PM

The principle of consent is one that is established however, as has been noted by LS, many in the south would likely, in the secrecy of a voting booth, vote against a UI in favour of saving a few cents. What I would like is for more people to be remember that if so many died for independence, what is a few cents in terms of a sacrifice in comparison? What I would like especially is for the mindset to change whereby people in the 26 counties would cease to see Irish people in the six counties as different and would cease to refer to people as "nordies" or "them up north" or "brits" (as I have been referred to on several occasions when in the 26 counties).

Cheap debating trick again. If I'm the father in a family and we can barely pay the mortgage, and so decide not to go to Disneyland with the kids next year - am I depriving my kids of happiness for the sake of "a few cents"?

This is not about the loose change at the bottom of our pocket. This is about another huge expense when we're already unable to pay the bills we have. In all this I stress that I'm not saying how I'd vote, merely that I think that the country as a whole would vote to leave the North where it is in the secrecy of the ballot box.

I note you chose to ignore my counterargument - if ye were allowed come south, but all public servants would have to go on the dole or find private sector employment, and the NHS would cease to exist so ye'd be forking out thousands in health insurance while also not getting treated for existing conditions - do you think the northern population would just look on their living wage as "a few cents?"

Incidentally I never realised that people from the six counties were offended at the term Nordie - I picked it up from this board so I presumed it was inoffensive - my apologies for that, genuinely.

I absolutely agree. As a Derry man living in Dublin I've commented before on here that I truly believe that were it put to a referendum in the the South they would vote NOT to take back Northern Ireland from the British.
same background as McGrens, I'd agree with him, i figured that out shortly after i came here
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on November 23, 2010, 08:56:46 PM
The Irish people have got what they deserve! I never voted FF and I have always been a strong anti FF person. Will I vote in the next election? No, I have my Visa and will be taking my professional ass to Toronto - Sorry folks but quiet frankly this evil little empire is where it deserves to be. The IMF demanding higher taxes on individuals and reduced public spending & the EU Partners taking swipes to make us less competitive on the Corporation Tax front. Fianna Fail have sunk this country economically in the same manner that the 3rd Reich suck Germany, so to those people claiming they (Parties) are all the same, seriously if you believe that then you deserve to go down with the ship ::)

To that person saying all Politics is local, well it's people like you who make it that way and spawn the Jackie Healy Rae's of this World.

To be honest I'm sick to the teeth of the bleeding heart emigrationists with their passport in their paw bleating on about how awful we all are while like all good rats they look  to jump ship when the going gets tough. The real people of value to this country are those who remain to work through the crap we are in, some by choice other s by lack of it, but all contributing in a real way to the improvement of this island.

Maybe we should all stay and add an extra couple of hundred thousand to the live register?? Calling people Rats for looking to earn a living is a nice way to carry yourself.


No problem at all with anyone emigrating to find work. I did it myself in the 80's. What I object to is the superior shite  such as, I never voted for FF, people get what they deserve, this evil little empire  etc etc etc. You were just unlucky. Same as I was in the 80's. But please just get on with your life and dont be making derogatory remarks about people you know nothing about.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on November 23, 2010, 10:05:47 PM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.

NI dole is only 60 GBP per week, no?

You bad hoor Bananaman. You were only trying to get into me knickers all the time.

Watching Prime Time now. Sapping my will to live. Jesus Jesus Jesus.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 23, 2010, 10:06:18 PM
Regarding the United Ireland thing, did we not all vote that it would happen when the majority in both jurisdictions voted that they were in favour?

Considering that Sinn Fein campaigned for us all to vote in favour of the above I really do get a hump in my shite when I have to listen to the likes on Nally Stand and my cousin harping on and on and on........

Stephenite, I live on the same planet believe it or not. I realise that a UI will only happen by consent, but this doesn't mean it should be ignored by the majority of political parties in Ireland. Parties which portray themselves as republican need to start to develop uirther the All-Ireland aspects of the GFA and work to build support for a UI for when such a time for a referendum might come. Maybe if that happened, people in the south might stop complaining about nordies "harping on" about a UI and decide that they actually think it is worth "harping on" about.

How is it being ignored, all political parties campaigned for the GFA IIRC, most people assume that their politician are not actively pursuing a United Ireland at the moment because it would be a waste of fecking time. The notion that any referendum held on the matter in the next 20 years is unlikely, the idea that a United Ireland will come to pass in the same timeframe is doubly unlikely in my view, particularly considering the events of the last few weeks.

What exactly is it you're looking for anyway? If you accept the principle of consent you surely must accept that the consent of the Loyalist community is not likely anytime soon, if ever, so what do you want from Southern political parties and people? Weekly press releases demanding reunification, but only when the good people of Ulster are ready? Rallys demanding that reunification occur immediately - even though we've already voted to wait until ye're ready?

If we had a bit less of the condasceding shite on what's worth it and what's not we'd be more inclined to listen, but there's nothing new to listen to, same auld shite day after day.

Take me home to Mayo,Oh my God :-[

Is that it Glens abu, significant contribution indeed, well done...


Can I ask a question Nally (and thanks for the well constructed reply by the way)

Why would any mainstream political party allow the staus quo to change at the expense of their own votes? It's too easy to say partitionist, they inherited the system and they are trying to stay elected.

Just to point, in regard to the Nordie term. Out of 5 in my family both myself and the younger brother were born in the south, the rest were born in the North where every single last Aunt, Uncle and Cousin are from. My parents in their retirement have pretty much moved back to Belfast, which is where I would have spent the majority of my holidays etc. That's not unique for a modern Irish family so when I use the term Noride it's in jest and in response to being called a free state b**tard all my life. I'd like to think I've fair idea of the position of some republicans in the North when it comes to their views of partition. It's very easy to say that the majority in the South would vote for retaining the current model, but there are plenty in the North with family and financial commitments that would be equally keen to retain the current civil service job that has served them so well - so let's be very clear that there are Catholic/Nationalist/Republicans that are equally pro partition on both sides of the border, and all this is before we even think about the backlash from loyalist paramilitaries and the resurrection of the troubles and all the votes that scenario would change.

It's the abuse that is heaped onto "free staters" for their partitionist views by extreme republicans that irks me -people in the main do not want a return to violence and be in a position to provide for their families, most people can do that now, and some in my family are committed to the ending of partition regardless of the economic devestation it may cause, others are more circumspect about keeping the status quo and ensuring they're in a position to look after their kids. It's funny but the views tend to change with age and circumstances.

I think that partition will end eventually, and when it does I hope it's a peaceful and smooth transition, for that to happen it's going to take time, longer than my lifetime I'd imagine
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on November 23, 2010, 11:52:56 PM
I think that partition will happen eventually, and when it does I hope it's a peaceful and smooth transition, for that to happen it's going to take time, longer than my lifetime I'd imagine
How long was I asleep for?
 :P
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 02:07:15 AM
I think that partition will happen eventually, and when it does I hope it's a peaceful and smooth transition, for that to happen it's going to take time, longer than my lifetime I'd imagine
How long was I asleep for?
 :P

 :D Are you suggesting its time for Connacht to bail out before Ireland gets the bailout?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 24, 2010, 04:34:45 AM
Cheers lads, fixed now :-[
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on November 24, 2010, 08:32:54 AM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on November 24, 2010, 09:03:51 AM
simple solution, Emigrate to the North lads, sign on the dole, let the UK Government pay for you's, boost the nationalist population, vote for a united ireland, then get an election result where the new single Irish unionist party (based in Belfast obviously) would be the lead partner in any coalition and let them make the economic decisions as FF and FG can't.

Let them run the new Ireland and let the FG and FF lads worry about their own wee corner of Ireland and it's associated potholes.

NI dole is only 60 GBP per week, no?

You bad hoor Bananaman. You were only trying to get into me knickers all the time.

Watching Prime Time now. Sapping my will to live. Jesus Jesus Jesus.

 :D Didn't realise it was only £60 a week, that is seriously low but thenyou would get housing benefit in top of that plus if you say you're an alco you get a daily allowance to sup pints, I shit you not. Also if you carry 2 walking sticks (not just one) you get double, my mate is a pharmacist and says his place is full of walking sticks on a tuesday.

Watched a bit of primetime myself, first conclusion is Miriam would get an awful seeing too, second conclusion, who was the Financial analyst with the glasses? he seemed to know what he was talking about and put it to the FF boy. He said default was the only way in line with what I was saying yesterday.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: EddieMerx on November 24, 2010, 09:33:50 AM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.

Cowen didn't get shafted by the ECB! they were sensible and said no more to funding our insolvent Banks. The ECB simply can no longer pour good money after bad! The tactics applied by FF are the same as they have always used, send out the those who shout and scream the most to quell the stupid public! Doesn't work anymore when we have the international media now reporting the Truth and not acting as a PR machine for FF like our national broadcaster. I hear now that we have negotiated a rate of 7% for this 85 billion loan! good negotiating FF, well bloody done considering Greece got 5% - our interst payments will now be 1/3 of what our goverments intake is.... Tell me please how FF have got us a good deal here??? Soliders of Destiny alright, bet Dev never knew that destiny was to make as a laughing stock and deemed a parasite on Europe.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: EddieMerx on November 24, 2010, 09:55:03 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/213124/Ireland-s-wreckers

Excellent piece by Myers in the Express
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on November 24, 2010, 10:18:31 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/213124/Ireland-s-wreckers

Excellent piece by Myers in the Express

I would hardly label it excellent. What was meant to be an article on the current financial plight in the 26 counties and the greed and excessive spending descended into 'have a pop at Gerry Adams and sinn fein'. Out of a possible list of near 100 FF TD's he picked the one who lifted an IRA man on his shoulders, how about the boys responsible for the bailout, the repeated lies and the pathetic attempt at negotiations resulting in 7% loans from the EU.

Relevant article? No. Biased? Yes. Concentrated on economic plight? Definitely not.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 10:20:27 AM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.

Cowen didn't get shafted by the ECB! they were sensible and said no more to funding our insolvent Banks. The ECB simply can no longer pour good money after bad! The tactics applied by FF are the same as they have always used, send out the those who shout and scream the most to quell the stupid public! Doesn't work anymore when we have the international media now reporting the Truth and not acting as a PR machine for FF like our national broadcaster. I hear now that we have negotiated a rate of 7% for this 85 billion loan! good negotiating FF, well bloody done considering Greece got 5% - our interst payments will now be 1/3 of what our goverments intake is.... Tell me please how FF have got us a good deal here??? Soliders of Destiny alright, bet Dev never knew that destiny was to make as a laughing stock and deemed a parasite on Europe.

If anybody shafted Cowen it was Angela Merkel with her unhelpful commentry over the last few weeks. I understand she was under internal polictal pressure in Germany, a country getting sick and tired of funding other countries debt and efficiency, but she has only made Germany's payouts an inevitability. That said Cowen got himself here, through his years as Minister for Finance and An Taoiseach.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 10:25:36 AM
He's at it again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWQ6LXhKmaE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWQ6LXhKmaE)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on November 24, 2010, 10:43:33 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/213124/Ireland-s-wreckers

Excellent piece by Myers in the Express

Myers has been attacking Adams all week :D

That's the real beauty of it. When the likes of Myers gets his nose out of joint it's got to be good. I think Myers is just pissed as the Adams move caught him off guard and if elected will put an end to the mouthing he does about Adams' mandate. Myers is in shock as he was blindsided and is hitting out as best he knows. Brilliant.

Not familiar with Myers (i don't think nayway), where is he from Zap? Is he anywhere else apart from the Express?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 11:02:03 AM
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/213124/Ireland-s-wreckers

Excellent piece by Myers in the Express

Myers has been attacking Adams all week :D

That's the real beauty of it. When the likes of Myers gets his nose out of joint it's got to be good. I think Myers is just pissed as the Adams move caught him off guard and if elected will put an end to the mouthing he does about Adams' mandate. Myers is in shock as he was blindsided and is hitting out as best he knows. Brilliant.

Not familiar with Myers (i don't think nayway), where is he from Zap? Is he anywhere else apart from the Express?

He is from Pembrokeshire the Southside of Dublin. He writes in the Irish Indo.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: stephenite on November 24, 2010, 11:07:11 AM
He has relatives in Knockmore, Co.Mayo
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on November 24, 2010, 11:14:35 AM
thanks for that lads, not familiar with him at all and based on that 1 piece I don't think I have missed out either
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on November 24, 2010, 01:55:25 PM
I'm with this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euz82Ws1z08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euz82Ws1z08)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on November 24, 2010, 10:05:01 PM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.

Noel Dempsey, my absolute least favourite politician of all time, hes an absolute ****, was on newstalk this evening, when george hook asked him why they weren't going to means test the pension that people like hook didnt need the pension, dempsey suggested he shouldnt accept it, that was his f**king solution to it
what an absolute useless p***k
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ross4life on November 24, 2010, 10:32:39 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 10:33:15 PM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.

Noel Dempsey, my absolute least favourite politician of all time, hes an absolute ****, was on newstalk this evening, when george hook asked him why they weren't going to means test the pension that people like hook didnt need the pension, dempsey suggested he shouldnt accept it, that was his f**king solution to it
what an absolute useless p***k

Thats priceless, thats what most politicans say including the opposition, that the system is wrong but thats the system, surely whats good for them is good for Geroge Hook.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 10:34:00 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

& the plastic bag tax, that was a good idea too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ross4life on November 24, 2010, 10:42:54 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

& the plastic bag tax, that was a good idea too.

Yeah that was great lol but Jaysus i'm scratching my head here to what else they did good?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 24, 2010, 10:47:16 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

& the plastic bag tax, that was a good idea too.

Yeah that was great lol but Jaysus i'm scratching my head here to what else they did good?

Well there is a decent motorway network as long as you pretend that there is nowhere between Galway and Dundalk and noone needs to refuel or rest while driving on those moterways.

They did continue the work of Bruton & Reynolds in the North.


f**k I think I might be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on November 24, 2010, 11:20:01 PM
The Grand Slam. What about the Grand Slam?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2010, 11:26:23 PM
The Grand Slam. What about the Grand Slam?

Mary Harney v J Healy-Rae?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on November 25, 2010, 12:03:46 AM
The Grand Slam. What about the Grand Slam?

Maybe I was drunk but I don't remember Willie O'Dee crossing the tri-line against the Welsh, might be wrong, I was pretty drunk tbh.

I think they brokered the Saipan Crises though.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Capt Pat on November 25, 2010, 12:24:46 AM
FF should stop sending senior party members onto TV programmes. I have seen Pat Carey being savaged, Mary Hanafin look ridiculous, Dick Roche look out of his depth and Tony Killeen lose the cool totally in the last week. 
There is a line that they can follow that makes sense and that is a true reflection of what happened last week. Brian Cowen was shafted by the ECB when it became clear that the emergency liquidity support provided to the banks would no longer be expanded. Instead the FFers  get tied up in pointless arguments that make them look stupid.

Noel Dempsey, my absolute least favourite politician of all time, hes an absolute ****, was on newstalk this evening, when george hook asked him why they weren't going to means test the pension that people like hook didnt need the pension, dempsey suggested he shouldnt accept it, that was his f**king solution to it
what an absolute useless p***k

I think that this is the problem with this country in a nutshell. The politicians who run it are in an endless cycle of trying to get elected and don't let anything get in their way of acieving that. Certainly not doing the right thing and taking childrens allowance and state pensions away from the wealthy and well off who do not need them, why? Simply because they are wired up to think they will lose a few votes when they do that. A few grumpy rich gits will stop voting for them and they might lose a few freinds at the upper ends of society

Now at the end of the day withdrawing childrens allowance and state pensions from the rich is only a very small unimportant issue, but if they can't get things right on the small issues what makes you think they will get things right on the big issues. As we have seen Bertie and co were not able to deflate the bubble on time, they never even tried, in fact they inflated it so that they would win votes.

Bertie was the ultimate me feiner, winning elections while flushing the future of the country down the toilet. I am surprised that he has not been the subject of more media attention at this time and public anger. People still seem to think he was some sort of hero. He should have fled the country at this time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearbrags on November 25, 2010, 01:55:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/jbyeats
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Peter Solan the Great on November 26, 2010, 08:15:06 PM

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on November 26, 2010, 08:24:25 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

& the plastic bag tax, that was a good idea too.

Yeah that was great lol but Jaysus i'm scratching my head here to what else they did good?

Well there is a decent motorway network as long as you pretend that there is nowhere between Galway and Dundalk and noone needs to refuel or rest while driving on those moterways.

They did continue the work of Bruton & Reynolds in the North.


f**k I think I might be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

You can't be serious, even with your FG blinkers on. You can be a good poster on here but you are beginning to display the same sort of brainless sheep loyalty to a party that you accuse FF voters of having. How often I heard FF people say things like that about the "great" Haughey. How long after Bruton was in power did the 1st cease fire end. He was almost the cause of the complete collapse of negotiations.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 01, 2010, 02:58:39 PM
Came across this on politics.ie




I notice back at the last local elections in 2009 Achill, Curraun Peninsula, Clare Island, East Ballina hinterland, North-East Mayo and pockets in the South showed strong support for Fianna Fail, it will be interesting to see if this changes in the upcoming general election.

The areas in South Mayo appear to include Tuar Mhic Éadaí and Mayo Abbey if I have judged correctly.



Below is the Fine Gael support for comparison


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mannix on December 01, 2010, 06:35:14 PM
The united states of mayo.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 01, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
The united states of mayo.

Does that make Galway, Mexico?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2010, 06:45:02 PM
“There has been much commentary about the need for senior bondholders to accept their share of the burden of this crisis. I certainly raised this matter in the course of the negotiations and the unanimous view of the ECB and the Commission was and is that no Programme would be possible if it were intended by us to dishonour senior debt. The strongly held belief among our European partners is that any move to impose burden sharing on this group of investors would have the potential to create a huge wave of further negative market sentiment towards the eurozone and its banks system. That apprehension was confirmed by Professor Honohan in an interview last Monday when he said there was no enthusiasm in Europe for this course of action.

There is simply no way that this country, whose banks are so dependent on international investors, can unilaterally renege on senior bondholders against the wishes of the ECB. Those who think we could do so are living in fantasy land. Worse still, those who know we cannot do so but who nonetheless persist with the line are damaging this country and its financial system: and all for the sake of a cheap headline. It is a case of politics as usual even at this most difficult time.

The idea which is now commonplace, that some how there are no costs associated with default is entirely incorrect. Ireland is hugely dependent on Foreign Direct Investment. These companies have large funds and investments in Ireland and directly and indirectly employ a quarter of million people in this economy. Any default on senior debt and the uncertainty that would cause would undoubtedly impact on the future investment decisions of these companies.”

should be made available on a leaflet to every household in the country and placed in ads in every newspaper.
The death warrant for Fianna Fáil.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 01, 2010, 06:52:28 PM
Is that what Lenihan said today Seafoid?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2010, 08:26:12 PM
“There has been much commentary about the need for senior bondholders to accept their share of the burden of this crisis. I certainly raised this matter in the course of the negotiations and the unanimous view of the ECB and the Commission was and is that no Programme would be possible if it were intended by us to dishonour senior debt. The strongly held belief among our European partners is that any move to impose burden sharing on this group of investors would have the potential to create a huge wave of further negative market sentiment towards the eurozone and its banks system. That apprehension was confirmed by Professor Honohan in an interview last Monday when he said there was no enthusiasm in Europe for this course of action.

There is simply no way that this country, whose banks are so dependent on international investors, can unilaterally renege on senior bondholders against the wishes of the ECB. Those who think we could do so are living in fantasy land. Worse still, those who know we cannot do so but who nonetheless persist with the line are damaging this country and its financial system: and all for the sake of a cheap headline. It is a case of politics as usual even at this most difficult time.

The idea which is now commonplace, that some how there are no costs associated with default is entirely incorrect. Ireland is hugely dependent on Foreign Direct Investment. These companies have large funds and investments in Ireland and directly and indirectly employ a quarter of million people in this economy. Any default on senior debt and the uncertainty that would cause would undoubtedly impact on the future investment decisions of these companies.”

should be made available on a leaflet to every household in the country and placed in ads in every newspaper.
The death warrant for Fianna Fáil.

What he meant was: I, Europe and your other betters are petrified of standing up to anonymous bondholders, so we will screw you, the taxpayer, who has no choice whatsoever. Now you should be eternally grateful for our bravery and to be honest your whinging is becoming irritating. You should know your place, plebs.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 01, 2010, 08:49:31 PM
Is that what Lenihan said today Seafoid?

Yes.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6602

it should be made known to everyone in the country and become part of what every primary school kid learns. The ultimate judgement on a party that has brought the country to its knees. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ardal on December 01, 2010, 09:02:33 PM
The only good thing the current government did was the smoking ban?

Enough is enough time for a change folks.

& the plastic bag tax, that was a good idea too.

Yeah that was great lol but Jaysus i'm scratching my head here to what else they did good?

Well there is a decent motorway network as long as you pretend that there is nowhere between Galway and Dundalk and noone needs to refuel or rest while driving on those moterways.

They did continue the work of Bruton & Reynolds in the North.


f**k I think I might be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

You can't be serious, even with your FG blinkers on. You can be a good poster on here but you are beginning to display the same sort of brainless sheep loyalty to a party that you accuse FF voters of having. How often I heard FF people say things like that about the "great" Haughey. How long after Bruton was in power did the 1st cease fire end. He was almost the cause of the complete collapse of negotiations.




Pretty sure that Major and british intransigence caused the downfall of the first ceasefire, not powerless Bruton et al
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 02, 2010, 12:21:50 AM
Quote
Yes.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6602

it should be made known to everyone in the country and become part of what every primary school kid learns. The ultimate judgement on a party that has brought the country to its knees.

Delusional as well as treachorous - Disgusting
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: An Gaeilgoir on December 02, 2010, 08:57:26 AM
Watched the news last night, it seems there is a fingerprint machine in the immigration Bureau worth 20 million lying unused as the civil servants who will be operating it want to be re-graded (higher) and get more money. The machine will help track down fraudsters claiming dole in different countries. Another legacy of this FF govt. Corrupt unions.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 02, 2010, 06:43:30 PM
Watched the news last night, it seems there is a fingerprint machine in the immigration Bureau worth 20 million lying unused as the civil servants who will be operating it want to be re-graded (higher) and get more money. The machine will help track down fraudsters claiming dole in different countries. Another legacy of this FF govt. Corrupt unions.

Unpatriotic, mé féiner, shortsited & undutiful, but not corruption I would say. Really need to start sacking these types, start the public sector cuts there.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 02, 2010, 06:52:57 PM
Latest Red C polls but FF at 13% behind SF at 16%

From Twitter (editor of the Irish Sun)

RED C/Irish Sun poll preview: FF 13pc, FG 32pc, Lab 24pc, SF 16pc, Grns 3, Inds 11. Biffo at 8 per cent, Gilmore 42.  :o :o :o

Interesting analysis from NUI Maynooth's Adrian Kavanagh on how the RedC numbers would equate into seats.....

FF 12, FG 67, LAB 50, SF 22, IND/OTH 15 (10 Left leaning IND/OTHs)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on December 02, 2010, 07:23:22 PM
. Corrupt unions.

Yah yeah blah blah... it's all the Unions' fault.
Give it a rest for Jasus sake.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 02, 2010, 07:27:43 PM
Latest Red C polls but FF at 13% behind SF at 16%

From Twitter (editor of the Irish Sun)

RED C/Irish Sun poll preview: FF 13pc, FG 32pc, Lab 24pc, SF 16pc, Grns 3, Inds 11. Biffo at 8 per cent, Gilmore 42.  :o :o :o

Interesting analysis from NUI Maynooth's Adrian Kavanagh on how the RedC numbers would equate into seats.....

FF 12, FG 67, LAB 50, SF 22, IND/OTH 15 (10 Left leaning IND/OTHs)

WOW, 13% of voters still would choose FF than should.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 02, 2010, 08:20:18 PM
I'm not a huge fan of these endless polls but.......FF + Greens now at 16%. Even allowing for a margin of error of 4% that would put the entire Government at a maximum of 20%. 4 out of 5 voters don't want them. Any credible leader would call an election. But we don't do credible Government.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 02, 2010, 08:28:56 PM
Another week and FF could be down to 10.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 02, 2010, 08:48:24 PM
Another week and FF could be down to 10.

Wait till the budget.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 02, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
I can't see them slipping much further. If people will still vote for them at this stage, nothing is likely to sway them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 02, 2010, 11:20:52 PM
I can't see them slipping much further. If people will still vote for them at this stage, nothing is likely to sway them.

I can't either and I'll go as far as to say that they will do better than the opinion polls are suggesting. FF has a large number of hard core supporters and they will turn up to vote come what may.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 05, 2010, 10:47:30 AM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 05, 2010, 11:19:31 AM
I can't see them slipping much further. If people will still vote for them at this stage, nothing is likely to sway them.

I can't either and I'll go as far as to say that they will do better than the opinion polls are suggesting. FF has a large number of hard core supporters and they will turn up to vote come what may.
Definitely. A lot of people won't admit that they'll vote for FF in a poll, but in the privacy of the voting booth, many will continue to vote for them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 05, 2010, 12:02:44 PM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

The simple tactic of rubbishing the FG leader (Kenny/Noonan/Bruton) won't work this time as there as been a significant jump from FF to the left. Initially Labour picked up dissident FFers who would never vote FG but as FF lose die hard votes these votes seem to be going to SF.

I agree FF will do better than the polls. Some of those who will vote for them won't admit it publicly but can be  recognised when they come out with the 'shur there's no one else' mantra.

The question is will the Indo/Sindo stick with FF all the way to the ballot or will they jump ship with the rest of the rats.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on December 05, 2010, 01:17:10 PM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

I just finished wiping my arse with the Sunday Indo this morning and I can categorically confirm that it is no use for that either.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on December 05, 2010, 01:27:41 PM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

I just finished wiping my arse with the Sunday Indo this morning and I can categorically confirm that it is no use for that either.

Get the sudocrem out.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 05, 2010, 08:35:06 PM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

It seems that the United Left Wing allianace are little more than Socialist British Unionists.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 05, 2010, 09:12:33 PM
All it's good for


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on December 05, 2010, 09:25:21 PM

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 05, 2010, 10:11:36 PM



Lord Haw Haw!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on December 06, 2010, 09:27:09 AM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

It seems that the United Left Wing allianace are little more than Socialist British Unionists.

What you mean there lad? i don't follow that one???
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on December 06, 2010, 09:48:43 AM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.

It seems that the United Left Wing allianace are little more than Socialist British Unionists.

What you mean there lad? i don't follow that one???

I'll explain it for you. Sindo is stirring trying to get people to not vote for the left in case Labour get to big the biggest party. Mayogodhelpus is in crisis and like an animal backed into a corner he attacks with some insane statement because he is in shock that the people may reject tweedle dum FG and tweedle dee FF. Well thats my reading of it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 06, 2010, 10:15:17 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/691b4730-009f-11e0-aa29-00144feab49a.html#axzz17KDueEqu

Ireland’s politics
Published: December 5 2010 19:10 | Last updated: December 5 2010 19:10
After the financial meltdown, a bloodbath at the ballot box: that is what assuredly awaits Fianna Fáil in a reckoning with Ireland’s enraged voters early next year. The most widely tracked opinion poll on Friday put the long-ruling party – invariably the largest in the Dáil whether out of power or, more usually, in power – in fourth place, overtaken by Sinn Féin.
After the Fianna Fáil-led coalition of Brian Cowen capitulated last week to the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, accepting a package of €85bn in “rescue” loans, it is not just Irish banks that are insolvent but the state that has opted to honour their massive debts.
Mr Cowen has clung on to power, arguing it was of paramount national interest that the government finalised last month’s four-year austerity programme, the emergency deal with the “troika” of the ECB, IMF and European Commission, and tomorrow’s draconian budget for 2011. Yet the legitimacy of this package is already impaired.
Fianna Fáil commands a mere 13 per cent of popular support – down from 42 per cent in the 2007 election – while only 8 per cent of voters want Mr Cowen to continue as Taoiseach. Indeed, he survives as party leader only because any successor chosen now may not survive the election, such is the scale of the rout facing Fianna Fáil.
The opposition Fine Gael and Labour parties that will almost certainly form the next government have broadly backed the evident need for radical fiscal retrenchment. But that leaves the field open to populism, which the republicans of Sinn Féin – who trounced Fianna Fáil in a by-election last month – have been quick to exploit. The public backlash against the bail-out and surrender of sovereignty to the troika, moreover, could quickly break the cohesion of the incoming coalition, as well as stir up mutinous Fianna Fáil backbenchers anxious to escape electoral oblivion. Passage of the budget is not guaranteed.
Ireland does need a budget that addresses its unsustainable structural deficit, and almost everyone recognises that. Whether taxpayers can or should keep paying the debts of Irish banks – in what is now widely seen as a bail-out of European banks that recklessly lent to them – is another matter.
That will be for the new government to resolve. Their voters, meanwhile, want not just vengeance at the polls but legal accountability for the bankers, builders and politicians whose cronyism brought Ireland to its knees.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ross4life on December 06, 2010, 05:11:14 PM



Same slogan with Cowens face this time? I'm sure a few granny's would buy it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 06, 2010, 05:39:05 PM
I see the Sindo is up to it's usual tricks this morning:

THE spectre of a Labour and Sinn Fein-led government, with the support of independent socialist TDs, is now uncomfortably close to reality, according to the latest analysis of voting intentions.
It seems that the United Left Wing allianace are little more than Socialist British Unionists.


What you mean there lad? i don't follow that one???

I'll explain it for you. Sindo is stirring trying to get people to not vote for the left in case Labour get to big the biggest party. Mayogodhelpus is in crisis and like an animal backed into a corner he attacks with some insane statement because he is in shock that the people may reject tweedle dum FG and tweedle dee FF. Well thats my reading of it.

Are you having a laugh mylestheslasher I have no problem with the Labour party, but I do have a problem with their current direction (populism). I really believe the Left Wing Alliance have nothing to offer and if this is true http://www.politics.ie/united-left-alliance/144495-ula-effect-branch-british-left.html (http://www.politics.ie/united-left-alliance/144495-ula-effect-branch-british-left.html) I would vote Sinn Fein any day before them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 16, 2010, 08:31:19 PM
Down to page 7!

Now they are trying to weasel their way out of an election.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1216/politics.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1216/politics.html)

Frank Fahey predicts April/May election

Frank Fahey predicts April/May election
Updated: 16:20, Thursday, 16 December 2010
 
Former minister and Galway West TD Frank Fahey has said he believes that the General Election will not be held before April or May.

1 of 2
Frank Fahey - Timeframe would suit coalition parties
Related Stories


Former minister and Galway West TD Frank Fahey has said he believes that the General Election will not be held before April or May of next year. Speaking on the Adhmhaidín programme on RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta this morning, Mr Fahey said that this would suit both parties in Government.
Earlier, Tánaiste Mary Coughlan said it is Taoiseach Brian Cowen's prerogative to call a General Election, and suggested that the general public is not as enthused about the subject as the Opposition deputies.
Ms Coughlan was responding to Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore, who asked the Tánaiste to lay out to the House the proposed date for the Finance Bill.
He asked how long the bill would be in the House and when the election would be called.
Mr Gilmore said it was important for stability. Sinn Féin's Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin called for clarification on what legislation would be brought before the House before the plug was pulled.Ms Coughlan said the Finance Bill was being worked on by Finance Minister Brian Lenihan and that she was not in a position to say when it would be published.
Fine Gael's James Reilly called for the House to sit next week and to come back early in the New Year to clear Budget-related legislation. The Dáil is due to rise today until 12 January. Dr Reilly said the rest of the country would be working next week.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on December 16, 2010, 09:26:34 PM
Down to page 7!

Now they are trying to weasel their way out of an election.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1216/politics.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1216/politics.html)

Frank Fahey predicts April/May election

Frank Fahey predicts April/May election
Updated: 16:20, Thursday, 16 December 2010
 
Former minister and Galway West TD Frank Fahey has said he believes that the General Election will not be held before April or May.

1 of 2
Frank Fahey - Timeframe would suit coalition parties
Related Stories


Former minister and Galway West TD Frank Fahey has said he believes that the General Election will not be held before April or May of next year. Speaking on the Adhmhaidín programme on RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta this morning, Mr Fahey said that this would suit both parties in Government.
Earlier, Tánaiste Mary Coughlan said it is Taoiseach Brian Cowen's prerogative to call a General Election, and suggested that the general public is not as enthused about the subject as the Opposition deputies.
Ms Coughlan was responding to Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore, who asked the Tánaiste to lay out to the House the proposed date for the Finance Bill.
He asked how long the bill would be in the House and when the election would be called.
Mr Gilmore said it was important for stability. Sinn Féin's Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin called for clarification on what legislation would be brought before the House before the plug was pulled.Ms Coughlan said the Finance Bill was being worked on by Finance Minister Brian Lenihan and that she was not in a position to say when it would be published.
Fine Gael's James Reilly called for the House to sit next week and to come back early in the New Year to clear Budget-related legislation. The Dáil is due to rise today until 12 January. Dr Reilly said the rest of the country would be working next week.

What about the greens who are supposedly pulling out in January or have they lost their balls now too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on December 16, 2010, 10:17:48 PM
Beverley Flynn is not running in the next election. Announced tonight. I'm amazed myself. Fianna Fail Tds running horrid scared.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 17, 2010, 01:03:30 AM
Beverley Flynn is not running in the next election. Announced tonight. I'm amazed myself. Fianna Fail Tds running horrid scared.

Heard that too, pity the rest of them wouldn't just go off and stay away.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on December 17, 2010, 01:07:27 AM
Beverley Flynn is not running in the next election. Announced tonight. I'm amazed myself. Fianna Fail Tds running horrid scared.

The rats are finally deserting that rotten, stinking, sinking ship.

Expect an announcement from that shining light of a Minister Dempsey in the coming days too (ironic!).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 17, 2010, 09:38:49 AM
Had the first canvasser to the door last night- Labour party. Good chat with him. Can't wait for the rest of them
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on December 17, 2010, 10:55:02 AM
It will take all the wooden stakes and garlic stockpiles we possess to get rid of FF. I had a call yesterday from a politically astute friend who knows nothing about betting, to ask me about odds on a FF minority government. He reckons the FF DNA is a powerful force of nature. It's one thing to give a pollster a negative opinion on FF (or lie to him) but it takes a powerful effort of will for a member of the faithful to put a number one in the box of a non FF candidate.

Anyway, I ended up placing two bets for him with PP - FF minority government at 100/1 and FF/SF at 66/1.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Canalman on December 17, 2010, 11:15:07 AM
Agree with alot of what you say there Hardy. Think that SF will do extremely well in the  GE as imo alot of the FF hardcore voter won't see a vote for SF as a "betrayal", but merely a "rearranging the furniture" type of vote. Lack of good candidates with charisma will cost SF seats big time imo though.

Can't see that many FFers shifting votes to FG/Lab. Do not ever discount the prevailing attitude out there that FF were (and still are) the party of the small farmer, city working class and the middle class.

FF will take a hiding at the next GE , but not a fatal one and will be back with a vengeance with fresh faces in 4/5 years time. Their big problem will be that alot of their younger generation was wiped out at the last local elections.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 11:23:34 AM
i don't think people realise yet how bad the economic situation is. And when they do they will realise that it is all FF's fault. and that taint of failure will be impossible to shake off.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 11:37:31 AM
Dempsey drops  out and follows Bev Flynn and Dermot Ahern
3 FF dinosaurs who don't have the guts to face the electorate

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1217/breaking18.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on December 17, 2010, 12:10:35 PM
SF would be committing suicide to go into government with FF. Great to see all the cowards in FF bailing out, they haven't the conviction to stand over their actions. Bev Flynn was one  that was always in it for herself so it doesn't suprise me that she would leave. Dempsey is a muppet and it would have been better to see him get obliterated at the poll but I suppose at least he has gone.

As someone said above expect the line at the door from FF to be along the lines of "FF need fresh blood" and "the old generation stayed to long". Don't fall for it people or you deserve what you get.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 12:58:29 PM
SF would be committing suicide to go into government with FF. Great to see all the cowards in FF bailing out, they haven't the conviction to stand over their actions. Bev Flynn was one  that was always in it for herself so it doesn't suprise me that she would leave. Dempsey is a muppet and it would have been better to see him get obliterated at the poll but I suppose at least he has gone.

As someone said above expect the line at the door from FF to be along the lines of "FF need fresh blood" and "the old generation stayed to long". Don't fall for it people or you deserve what you get.

Ahern and Dempsey are two of the most senior ministers.  Unprecedented stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hanafin lost her seat. I can't see FF getting more than 10% in Dublin. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on December 17, 2010, 01:24:25 PM
Rats and a sinking ship is too kind an analogy for them. I've taken Hardy's advice and have stocked up on garlic, wooden stakes, holy water etc in preparation for the exorcism 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 17, 2010, 03:18:35 PM

Ahern and Dempsey are two of the most senior ministers.  Unprecedented stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hanafin lost her seat. I can't see FF getting more than 10% in Dublin.

I wonder what the hardcore FFer thinks of this? The only people capable of getting us out of this mess are quitting by the dozen ???

Well there must be quite a few hardcore FF's on here based on the poll, even discounting 50% as WUM's. I wonder why they are staying so quite. I think Zapista might be on the mark, FF will win back quite a few of that SF% I hope now. I would rather them go to FG or even Labour or Independents, but FF must be destroyed for the good of Ireland. FG, Labour, SF, and others need to work in the best interests of Ireland and the Irish (they don't all have to share ideologies, left, right, centre or whatever, as long as it’s for Ireland/Irish not clientelism. or whacko-Jacko politics).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 03:23:20 PM
FF lost all vestiges of a link to their values of soverigin nationalism by voting for the reparations package on Wednesday. They are no longer fit for purpose as Noel Dempsey knows. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 04:07:49 PM


Another reason FF should die

 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1217/breaking42.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 17, 2010, 04:38:35 PM


Another reason FF should die

 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1217/breaking42.html

He should be arrested and tried for Treason. Failure to act on the suspicion of Rendition flights is an attack on the Irish Constitution. This is same p***k sits around a cabinet table with the current Minister we have dealing with the Israeli and Russian Irish passport scandals. He has made the world are more dangerous place for Irish people. He didn't even turn a blind eye to the rendition flights but actively used the powers of his position to criminalise and attack protesters. His failure to investigate and protect Irish citizens is nothing short of criminal.

If the Minister of the time believed there were Rendition flights and actively covered it up then we are in all new territory. Regardless of there being flights or not he believed there were and covered it up. f**king Scandalous.

What an absolute ****. Seriously the man should be locked up.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on December 17, 2010, 04:56:59 PM


Another reason FF should die

 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1217/breaking42.html

He should be arrested and tried for Treason. Failure to act on the suspicion of Rendition flights is an attack on the Irish Constitution. This is same p***k sits around a cabinet table with the current Minister we have dealing with the Israeli and Russian Irish passport scandals. He has made the world are more dangerous place for Irish people. He didn't even turn a blind eye to the rendition flights but actively used the powers of his position to criminalise and attack protesters. His failure to investigate and protect Irish citizens is nothing short of criminal.

If the Minister of the time believed there were Rendition flights and actively covered it up then we are in all new territory. Regardless of there being flights or not he believed there were and covered it up. f**king Scandalous.

What an absolute ****. Seriously the man should be locked up.

Whatever about economic policy, I have absolutely no doubt that the Fine Gael stance over Shannon would have been no different to FF's had they been in government. The failure to prevent the use of Shannon by the US military is perhaps the most shameful of all Irish government actions in the past decade.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2010, 05:51:13 PM
And the justification for shannon was the great relationship with the US. So WTF is the US now in the hour of greatest need ?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 17, 2010, 05:53:16 PM
And the justification for shannon was the great relationship with the US. So WTF is the US now in the hour of greatest need ?

It has agreed to keep Tyrone's Own.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on December 17, 2010, 07:08:47 PM
And the justification for shannon was the great relationship with the US. So WTF is the US now in the hour of greatest need ?

It has agreed to keep Tyrone's Own.

God bless America  :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 17, 2010, 07:54:23 PM
the use of Shannon lads is nothing compared to actually having soldiers in Afghanistan serving along side the Brits. these shower should be charged with offences against the state the evidence is there and they should be closely followed in to jail by their banker buddy's. of course it will never happen because the next crowd are equally as bad its just their turn to look after their mates for a few years
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Orangemac on December 18, 2010, 12:19:04 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 18, 2010, 01:06:43 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

Orangemac, I totally understand and fear for what you are saying. I would gladly see FG, Labour and SF disbanded in the morning if it gauranteed the end of FF or a replacement party with the same ideals ands same cronies.

Re O'Dea and Flynn, down in the 26 we feal the same about Hairy Gerry and Big Ian, how the fck they got elected we will never understand.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 18, 2010, 02:14:23 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

People have short memories, Obama came to power two years ago here in the States and people were talking about the Democrats been in power for the next 12 years ago due to how badly thing had gotten during the Bush administration. Fast forward two years and the Republicans are back with a bang with huge wins in the mid terms last month. FF will do badly in the next election but will be back with a bang by the time the next election comes around.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 18, 2010, 02:27:59 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

People have short memories, Obama came to power two years ago here in the States and people were talking about the Democrats been in power for the next 12 years ago due to how badly thing had gotten during the Bush administration. Fast forward two years and the Republicans are back with a bang with huge wins in the mid terms last month. FF will do badly in the next election but will be back with a bang by the time the next election comes around.

You say that like it was a good thing!!! I really do hope that those f**kers never trample an Irish doorstep or stain an Irish voting card ever again. They are the scum of the Earth.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: RedandGreenSniper on December 18, 2010, 02:32:16 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

People have short memories, Obama came to power two years ago here in the States and people were talking about the Democrats been in power for the next 12 years ago due to how badly thing had gotten during the Bush administration. Fast forward two years and the Republicans are back with a bang with huge wins in the mid terms last month. FF will do badly in the next election but will be back with a bang by the time the next election comes around.

You say that like it was a good thing!!! I really do hope that those f**kers never trample an Irish doorstep or stain an Irish voting card ever again. They are the scum of the Earth.

Genuinely I hope FG do a better job. I really do. But hope and expectation are two different things.

I pray that FF will be decimated and we are left with only one centre-right party in this country and an end to civil war politics. But, like others have said, their survival capabilities cannot be overstated.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: FL/MAYO on December 18, 2010, 03:32:40 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

People have short memories, Obama came to power two years ago here in the States and people were talking about the Democrats been in power for the next 12 years ago due to how badly thing had gotten during the Bush administration. Fast forward two years and the Republicans are back with a bang with huge wins in the mid terms last month. FF will do badly in the next election but will be back with a bang by the time the next election comes around.

You say that like it was a good thing!!! I really do hope that those f**kers never trample an Irish doorstep or stain an Irish voting card ever again. They are the scum of the Earth.

No what I said is people have short memories, they will forget who got us into this mess in the first place and return to their old voting patterns very quickly. The next government will be very unpopular with all  the cuts they will need to make, FF will feed of this resentment.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 18, 2010, 05:18:41 AM
You get the feeling Fianna Fail will not be gone for long.

They have left the next governmnet a few landmines in the shape of the banks, pensions which need to be cut and the Croke Park deal.

Needless to say they are planning to be back for the 1916 centenary.

They know they need to clear out a few of the heads that are associated with the current mess but they will be back.

It's hard to see how the likes of Willie the Weasel O'Dea gets such a big majority or Cooper Flynn was continually re-elected but thats democracy for you.

People have short memories, Obama came to power two years ago here in the States and people were talking about the Democrats been in power for the next 12 years ago due to how badly thing had gotten during the Bush administration. Fast forward two years and the Republicans are back with a bang with huge wins in the mid terms last month. FF will do badly in the next election but will be back with a bang by the time the next election comes around.

You say that like it was a good thing!!! I really do hope that those f**kers never trample an Irish doorstep or stain an Irish voting card ever again. They are the scum of the Earth.

No what I said is people have short memories, they will forget who got us into this mess in the first place and return to their old voting patterns very quickly. The next government will be very unpopular with all  the cuts they will need to make, FF will feed of this resentment.

If the Irish people forgive these trecherous scum we deserve to be a province of the U.K., E.U., U.S.A., China or Zimbabwe.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 18, 2010, 05:20:59 AM
I think members of Fianna Fail should do the honourable thing, give up their jobs to emmigrants to bring them back and then f**k of to Mars for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 18, 2010, 03:40:07 PM
the use of Shannon lads is nothing compared to actually having soldiers in Afghanistan serving along side the Brits. these shower should be charged with offences against the state the evidence is there and they should be closely followed in to jail by their banker buddy's. of course it will never happen because the next crowd are equally as bad its just their turn to look after their mates for a few years

The use of Shannon for rendition flights is much worse than having the troops in Afghanistan.

I think there are 7 Irish troops in Afghanistan and they are doing good work. They are not a part of the invading troops and are there due to their expertise to protect innocent Afghans.

I have no time for a stupid Neutrality policy but I do think we need to act in line with the constitution until a time that it is changed. The troops in Afghanistan is not unconstitutional. The troops that Willie O'Dea sent to Chad on the otherhand.....

Wow Zap whats the issue with the Chad troops, I always supported them lads, thinking they are doing a good job. Are they there in conflict with Bunreach na hEireann or other Irish law?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on December 22, 2010, 10:02:07 PM
Just wondering if Micheal Martin becomes leader of Fianna Fail, will he support a government (whatever the parties) in the best interests of Ireland in a type of Tallaght Strategy? He is on record of saying he would do so. I wonder will his constituents ask him and all that represent him on the doorsteps that very question.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 22, 2010, 10:42:17 PM
i hear fianna fail are setting up a tent at next years munich beer festival ;D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 12, 2011, 02:43:59 PM

It looks desperate for FF, the poor neoliberal craythurs


 http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0112/1224287328110.html

The Irish Times - Wednesday, January 12, 2011

Now indelibly linked to Anglo, Fianna Fáil faces even worse fate

STEPHEN COLLINS
ANALYSIS: The relationship between the party and the toxic bank has been cemented in the public mind on the eve of a general election
THE FINAL session of the 30th Dáil will begin today with further indignity being piled on the head of a dying Government as Taoiseach Brian Cowen comes under pressure to explain his relationship with the former boss of Anglo Irish Bank Seán FitzPatrick.
The toxic Anglo Irish Bank has destroyed the reputation of Fianna Fáil over the past two years and, more importantly, has almost bankrupted the country and left taxpayers with debts of tens of billions of euro.
The disclosure that FitzPatrick had an important phone conversation with Cowen at a crucial stage on the bank’s road to perdition and spent a day playing golf with the newly installed Taoiseach in the summer of 2008 has made a dire situation even worse for the Government, if that is possible.
Whether there was anything inappropriate in the contacts between the two men is almost irrelevant at this stage. What the disclosure has done is to cement the relationship between Fianna Fáil and Anglo in the public mind on the eve of the election campaign.
What was already shaping up to be the worst result in Fianna Fáil’s history could now become a rout on a scale that might even call into question the future existence of the party. The manner in which the party continues to shamble towards the election without direction and seemingly without hope is ominous.
The striking thing about Fianna Fáil at this stage is the mood of fatalism that has gripped its TDs. The fact that a number of senior Ministers in their 50s have decided not even to contest the election tells its own story. The party which has known far better than any of its rivals how to win and hold on to power for the past 80 years seems to have thrown in the towel before the election campaign proper has even begun.
It is astonishing that no serious challenger has emerged to take on a leader who has not simply lost the confidence of the public, through a combination of bad luck and bad judgment, but has generated a level of antipathy rarely seen in politics.
If Fianna Fáil had a chance of retaining power by changing the leader it would have happened by now. The fact that no serious moves have been made is an indication of just how bad things are. Morale within the Cabinet and the parliamentary party is now at an all-time low with the only question being how bad the election defeat is going to be.
The doomsday forecast of Cork East TD Ned O’Keeffe that Fianna Fáil could be reduced to 12 seats is almost certainly an exaggeration but the fact that Fianna Fáil was only getting the same level of support as Sinn Féin in a number of recent polls shows just how potentially bad the beating could be.
Fianna Fáil’s Coalition partners the Greens have also been bewildered about what to do in response to the succession of hammer blows suffered by the Government. The latest revelations have presented them with a dilemma not unlike that faced by the Progressive Democrats at the start of the 2007 general election campaign.
At that stage Michael McDowell was persuaded that it was better to stay on rather than pull the plug on Bertie Ahern. The PDs suffered extinction as a consequence. This time around the Greens appear to be following the same route as the PDs, with the argument for hanging on to the bitter end prevailing over the political imperative of getting off the sinking ship as quickly as possible.
The Greens do have good reasons for prolonging the life of the Coalition just a little bit longer, in order to get cherished policies on issues such as climate change adopted, but the refusal to break the knot with Fianna Fáil makes extinction in the election even more likely. There is still an element of wait and see about the Green position with the party saying that it has been unable to find any evidence of “inappropriate behaviour” in the contacts between Cowen and FitzPatrick. The implication is that in the unlikely event that such evidence does emerge they may take a different attitude.
John Gormley said he would see how Cowen responded to Opposition questions in the Dáil today but the Taoiseach is unlikely to come up with a different response to the one he has already provided to explain his contacts with FitzPatrick.
Gormley said yesterday it was regrettable that at every Green Party think-in a policy-driven party like his was forced to talk about other issues, such as “golfgate”, or “garglegate”, but that is just a foretaste of what he will have to talk about during the election campaign.
The Opposition parties will take up today where they left off before Christmas hammering away at Cowen in the Dáil. The FitzPatrick story has given Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin the ideal platform going into the final few weeks of the Dáil and the election campaign to come
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 12, 2011, 05:51:34 PM
It really is a sad reflection on the Irish people that Bertie Ahern came 3'rd in a recent survey as preferred choice for our next President.

These people really are unpatriotic or simpletons.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on January 12, 2011, 07:18:00 PM
depends on who came 1st and second, hitler and mr bean
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 12:42:55 AM
depends on who came 1st and second, hitler and mr bean

David Norris came first, Mairead McGuinness came in second.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ross4life on January 13, 2011, 01:13:12 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 08:43:40 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on January 13, 2011, 09:45:13 AM
It really is a sad reflection on the Irish people that Bertie Ahern came 3'rd in a recent survey as preferred choice for our next President.

These people really are unpatriotic or simpletons.


What survey was this, mayogodhelpus? I know Joe Duffy did a phone-in elimination-type survey with a field of ten candidates. Bertie was the first eliminated.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 10:29:42 AM
It really is a sad reflection on the Irish people that Bertie Ahern came 3'rd in a recent survey as preferred choice for our next President.

These people really are unpatriotic or simpletons.


What survey was this, mayogodhelpus? I know Joe Duffy did a phone-in elimination-type survey with a field of ten candidates. Bertie was the first eliminated.

Hardy I am taking this information from page 6 of the Irish Times, 11-01-2011.

Red C Poll produced by Paddy Power, Senator Norris 27%, Maireád McGuinness 13%, Bertie Ahern 12%, FF (MEP) Brian Crowley 10%, Micheal D.Higgins 10%, Fergus Finlay (Bernardos CEO) 10%.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on January 13, 2011, 10:49:09 AM
Obviously a properly constituted survey then, unlike Joe Duffy's phone-in. It'd dislocate your brain to contemplate the idea that one in eight adults in this country think that buffoonish crook would make a suitable president.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 13, 2011, 11:11:37 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

Michael D would be my choice there. No way I'd vote Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, to many FF conections. There again we fall for the old celebrity no matter how much we claim not to. I'd like to see someone like Justin Kilcullen. Someone who will challenge Ireland to improve our imput into international affairs and demand the same of others. At the minute the President represents Ireland abroad by looking nice and being polite. I'd rather see someone who would tell Israel to sod off or tell Uganda to stop buying guns and build some schools rather than look good and be polite. Michael D would be the best of the bunch so far.

I could be wrong but I don't think the remit of the president allows them to make such statements to Israel or Uganda. I like Norris. He's a nice guy and I think he'd be a good embassador for Ireland. He might not be too welcome in the middle east mind you...
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 11:18:32 AM
Obviously a properly constituted survey then, unlike Joe Duffy's phone-in. It'd dislocate your brain to contemplate the idea that one in eight adults in this country think that buffoonish crook would make a suitable president.

Then again if you take in people over 70 who have little to lose @ this stage who are lost in the ideology (which in fact is not ideology, but a vague idea) of Fianna Fail & top business people linked in parasitic way to FF (perhaps FF is the parasite on them), then you surely have 12% of the population.

Not so long ago Bertie got a great response in Roscommon, thats a county with a good Fine Gael base, a county that has long been ignored by the FF state, a county in deep need of investment, a county with their hospital services being removed. So taking that into context you can hardly be surprised that he has support in his home base of Drumcondra or in traditional FF heartlands.

I remember when Bertie was leaving one of his cheerleaders Ray the fcking off out of Ireland before the end of Spring D'Arcy more or less turned Today FM into the "We love Bertie" station.

Of course there was last years Late Late Show interview, where Ahern was allowed to riducle his ex-political opponents but was given carte blanch by Tubridy Ogra FF & cheered on by the crowd.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 11:23:23 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

Michael D would be my choice there. No way I'd vote Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, to many FF conections. There again we fall for the old celebrity no matter how much we claim not to. I'd like to see someone like Justin Kilcullen. Someone who will challenge Ireland to improve our imput into international affairs and demand the same of others. At the minute the President represents Ireland abroad by looking nice and being polite. I'd rather see someone who would tell Israel to sod off or tell Uganda to stop buying guns and build some schools rather than look good and be polite. Michael D would be the best of the bunch so far.

I could be wrong but I don't think the remit of the president allows them to make such statements to Israel or Uganda. I like Norris. He's a nice guy and I think he'd be a good embassador for Ireland. He might not be too welcome in the middle east mind you...

Your not supposed to but our half American, English born President Erskine Childers tried too before his unforunate death in office
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on January 13, 2011, 11:40:11 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

You would like the Irish President to be someone who regards the 26 counties as a priest ridden potato republic and, to use a direct quote, a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-cultural, mono-ethnic State," and to be a man who did his best to thwart any prospect of peace and powersharing in the occupied counties, and who bitterly opposed the announcement of the Saville Inquiry? The Nobel Peace prize lost ALL credibility the day they decided that man was deserving of it.

Just when I think you are the nearest to a respectable FG'er that I've ever met, you come out with something like that.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 13, 2011, 11:44:40 AM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

No doubt you would have suggested the likes of Seanie Fitzpatrick last time out. We never learn.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2011, 01:19:35 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0113/breaking4.html

irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Thursday, January 13, 2011, 13:00Cowen's position under threat ahead of FF meeting

Speculation is growing in Leinster House that a motion of no confidence in Mr Cowen may be tabled by backbenchers at a crunch Fianna Fail parliamentary party meeting this afternoon.Related
Cowen confirms FitzPatrick talks | 09/01/2011Cowen denies impropriety in dealings with FitzPatrick | 10/01/2011Full text of Alan Gray statement | 13/01/2011Cowen discussed economy at dinner | 13/01/2011Taoiseach does not recall if Anglo issue discussed | 13/01/2011Sinn Fein's sucker punch takes the wind out of Taoiseach but no doubt he's forgotten it already | 13/01/2011Gilmore repeats economic treason charge | 13/01/2011IRISH TIMES REPORTERS

Taoiseach Brian Cowen’s position is looking increasingly under threat following further revelations about his contacts with Anglo Irish Bank officials in the lead-up to the controversial bank guarantee in September 2008.

Speculation is growing in Leinster House that a motion of no confidence in Mr Cowen may be tabled by backbenchers at a crunch Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting this afternoon. The meeting was due to be held this morning but was postponed until 3pm at the last minute.

The meeting was arranged after requests from some TDs earlier this week and after more details of his dinner with former Anglo chairman Seán FitzPatrick at the Druids Glen golf complex in Co Wicklow in July 2008 emerged.

Fianna Fáil backbencher Mary O‘Rourke dismissed the speculation, saying talk of a leadership heave was wide of the mark. “It‘s far too late. I hate saying it but we are where we are,” she told Newstalk radio.

“We are so near a general election that it would be futile I think to go changing anything.” Eighteen signatures of TDs and Senators are required to force a vote on the party leadership.

Mr Cowen told the Dáil yesterday “a big slowdown in our economy” had been discussed at the meal, but the affairs of the bank did not arise.

In response to a question from Sinn Féin Dáil leader Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, who happened to be at Druids Glen for a function on the same date, Mr Cowen disclosed that after his game with Mr FitzPatrick and Fintan Drury, who had stood down as a director of Anglo a few months earlier, they were joined for dinner by three other people.

These were Gary McGann, the chief executive of Smurfit Kappa who was a director of Anglo at the time, Alan Gray, an economic consultant who was on the board of the Central Bank, and a third man who was the Taoiseach’s Garda driver.

Mr Cowen said the golf outing and lunch were organised by Mr Drury, an old friend of his.

“It was about being able to sit down with people at the end of the day and having a chat about the economy.

“The deputy will recall we had a mini-budget and saw recession on the horizon and a big slowdown in our economy,” he told Mr Ó Caoláin.

“As Taoiseach, I was there chatting to see if there were ideas and to find out other people’s views of things and to see if things could be done which might be helpful. As the deputy will know, those people would have some views on that. That was basically the total sum of it.”

Last night, Mr Gray, who is managing partner of Indecon economic consultants, issued a statement confirming he was invited to attend an informal dinner with the Taoiseach at Druids Glen on July 28th, 2008. “The purpose of the invitation was to provide independent ideas to stimulate economic growth and to reduce unemployment in Ireland.” He said those present were Mr Cowen, Mr FitzPatrick, Mr Drury, Mr McGann and the Taoiseach’s driver. It was the first time he had met Mr Fitzpatrick.

“At no time when Mr Gray was present at the dinner was there any discussion of banking issues or of Anglo Irish Bank or any related matters. The discussion focused exclusively on initiatives to encourage new small indigenous firms, and measures to attract additional investment to Ireland and other responses to unemployment,” the statement said.

Mr Ó Caoláin said last night the Taoiseach’s credibility was now in tatters. “How are we expected to believe that the crisis in Anglo Irish Bank was not discussed at Druids Glen when the Taoiseach dined with Anglo chairman Seán FitzPatrick as well as one of Anglo’s board of directors, Gary McGann, and Alan Gray, a director of the Central Bank appointed by Mr Cowen, as finance minister, in 2007?”

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said Fianna Fáil had brought the country to a point where it “simply is not working”.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on January 13, 2011, 01:43:38 PM
Strong rumour that Cowen will announce he's stepping down and an election will be called next week. Almost impossible to call @ this stage.

Kevin Doyle Herald

I'm reliably informed from someone inside Leinster House that 18 backbenchers have definitely signed the form as required. In terms of a heave Martin is not on board yet, Hanafin is, and nobody knows the story with Lenihan who is in Stormont today
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2011, 02:10:38 PM
The scumbags think dumping the Biff will save their sad cowardly skins it seems.  >:(

Why don't they do like their mates Fingers , Drumm etc and just fcuk off to hell out of our Country  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on January 13, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Tactics again. Fianna Fáil's strategy before this was to ride out the tide and hope that the world economy would pick up and bring us with it, and then claim credit for it. Then the world economy started to improve and we got worse, so it became the fault of the banks.

Now it's coming out that the banks and FF were basically on the same page and working in cahoots, so the only strategy left is to pull a little sleight of hand trick and claim that they are disowning the FF that caused all the problems, and that there is a new option, some sort of FF-nua that has no responsibility for the mistakes of the past, had nothing to do with them, but remarkably, has learned from them.

The grand plan was to probably do this after the election, but the problem with this strategy is that it means that a lot of the sitting TD's get toasted and then get to be forever remembered as part of the bad guy generation - so they're trying to save themselves by moving things along a lot quicker than would have been the plan. Plus, and here's the beautiful little land mine, the finance bill doesn't get passed because we have an election. All the more bad news for the next government to deliver.

Win-win situation, as long as the best interests of the Irish people doesn't figure on your radar.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 07:12:57 PM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

You would like the Irish President to be someone who regards the 26 counties as a priest ridden potato republic and, to use a direct quote, a "pathetic, sectarian, mono-cultural, mono-ethnic State," and to be a man who did his best to thwart any prospect of peace and powersharing in the occupied counties, and who bitterly opposed the announcement of the Saville Inquiry? The Nobel Peace prize lost ALL credibility the day they decided that man was deserving of it.

Just when I think you are the nearest to a respectable FG'er that I've ever met, you come out with something like that.

Ahhhh Nally Stand, I can fish too, lol  ;D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 13, 2011, 07:15:58 PM
Michael D.Higgins is the Current favourite for next President, looking at the list Micheal O'Muircheartaigh would be good choice but never take it & how about Shane McGowan new teeth & all?

For me Michael D. Higgins would be a good choice, I would like to see Micheal D. Higgins, David Norris, Mairead McGuinness, John Hume, Sean Kelly. They would be good choices.

A few other people that came to my mind where Proinsias De Rossa, David Trimble, Micheal O'Muircheartaigh, Christine Noble, Micheal O'Leary, Adi Roche.


We could raise our profile by asking Irish diaspora members like Barack Obama (U.S.A.) to run after they kick him out in the states, Kevin Rudd (Australia), Paul Keating (Australia), Vicente Fox Quesada (Mexico), Bill Clinton (U.S.A.) :D

I know alot of those where tongue in cheek, but all 1,000 times better than Bertie Ahern.

No doubt you would have suggested the likes of Seanie Fitzpatrick last time out. We never learn.

My only serious list was the first line, yet I would bump Christine Nobel to the serious list if I thought she would actually be interested. Adi Roache already had a go.

Always had a lot of time for Proinsias De Rossa but not sure he would be right for President. Despite having David Trimble in there as a bit of a fishing exercise I do admire how he put his political career & position in his community at risk to help secure peace.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on January 13, 2011, 07:45:35 PM
Fishing. Of course.

Despite having David Trimble in there as a bit of a fishing exercise I do admire how he put his political career & position in his community at risk to help secure peace.

The vice versa of that is how I'd imagine most nationalists in the six counties would remember David Trimble. He repeatedly put peace at risk for the sake of his career and for the sake of fending off increasing support for the DUP. The british government were all to happy to assist in these "Save Dave" campaigns by providing him with the ability to, and supporting him in, vetoing any chance of genuine lasting progress during his time in leadership.

Another of David (Nobel Peace Prize winner) Trimble's reflection on the 26 counties:
"If you took away Catholicism and anti-Britishness, the State (the Irish Republic) doesn't have a reason to exist."
                                                                                                                                      D. Trimble
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on January 13, 2011, 10:15:02 PM
yeah. good ol davy the 'portadown prancer' and now a british envoy to israel days after he joined the 'friends of israel'. mayo leave the fishing to the donegal men.
michael dee for me he was brilliant one evening on the 'right hook' he took on hooks regular right wing yank contributor whose name escapes me and blew him away i was impressed
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lone Shark on January 14, 2011, 02:31:31 AM
Okay, now surely we have reached a level where even the most dyed in the wool FFer must say enough? Essentially we have a newspaper (The Daily Mail) claiming that Brian Cowen went outside of his terms of reference and spoke the the NTMA about investing our money in a bank he knew to be insolvent. Based on all the evidence so far, plus the fact that the govt side can't get their story straight on anything (Cowen - it was a social event. Coughlan - it was a fundraiser. Grey - it was a meeting on employment creation), believing the idea that Cowen did not know about Anglo being under water is essentially stretching credibility to the same level as Bertie did with his "won it on the horses" schite.

I actually can't find a parallel in the free world for this. I'm not being flippant, but I'd say if there is any society worth saving in this country, then Cowen must surely be looking at jail time. Not soon, not without a long tribunal process, but eventually this has to be worth a long stretch behind bars. This is essentially the worst crime in the history of the state.

Please, please, please tell me that there's no-one left out there on this board who would still vote for them?  ???
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on January 14, 2011, 08:03:55 AM
Quote
Please, please, please tell me that there's no-one left out there on this board who would still vote for them

Unfortunately LS I think there are still people who will put number 1 beside the FF candidate. The thing "normal" people forget is that FFer's are genetically predisposed to do so and nothing and I mean nothing will deter them. Think Taliban fundamentalists or minute men militia and you'll get a similar mindset

Jaysus - just listening to Frank Fahey on the radio  - unreal stuff. If I hear the phrase "Brian Cowen is a man of the upmost integrity" once more I'll burst someone. The party , the party, the party is all that matters
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2011, 08:53:20 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0114/1224287488486.html

The Irish Times - Friday, January 14, 2011
Fianna Fáil has lost its faith

THERE IS something quite unusual and unprecedented happening within Fianna Fáil which has never been witnessed before in the party’s long history. It must seem bizarre to many of its thousands of members and supporters; to others, grotesque. Fianna Fáil has lost confidence in itself as the national movement which has governed this State, more often for good than bad when difficult decisions on contraception, divorce and the Northern Ireland peace process had to be made in this generation. But now there is abundant evidence that Fianna Fáil has lost its faith. It is in a state of unprecedented crisis.
There was never a general election campaign where Fianna Fáil did not assert publicly - despite what it might believe privately - that it could win and form the next government. It is understandable, given the succession of opinion polls, that it would feel it was destined for opposition on this occasion. But it has no strategic sense of its electoral position now. It has lost sight of its customary ingenuity in accepting, abjectly, such a state of affairs. Even in the Haughey era, its self-image was never so low.
It was one of Fianna Fáil’s strategic successes then to know that it had to move from the core value of single-party government to coalitions in order to remain in power. This decision has guaranteed its participation in government for almost 20 years.

It is extraordinary the way in which the party now openly accepts that it is doomed to opposition, and maybe not just for five, but ten years. The high-profile figures who have benefited from the party’s profile over the past 13 years in government are standing down in swarms. What is different now is that they are thinking mé féin. There are three Cabinet Ministers - Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, and Tony Killeen; Minister of State Michael Finneran; and many other TDs. Some of them are retiring for health or age reasons but others are just opting out to protect their pensions or because they believe they are heading for electoral defeat.

There was never such a situation in Fianna Fáil before. If it was required that an ageing TD should stand again to protect a seat, he did so. The party was paramount and that was what guaranteed Fianna Fáil’s claim to be a national movement. It would now appear that that belief in itself has dissipated and the spirit of Fianna Fáil is gone.

That change in the party’s political psychology is undoubtedly the reason why the key aspirant leaders, Micheál Martin, Brian Lenihan and Mary Hanafin, think that they would have a better chance of being re-elected in Cork South-Central, Dublin West and Dun Laoghaire as potential taoisigh than as Fianna Fáil Ministers or TDs. This is another manifestation of the new policy of individualism in Fianna Fáil.

The sad reality is that those aspiring to leadership themselves do not have the courage to offer the vision to take Fianna Fáil out of its mire. So maybe a better case could be made by the younger generation to renew the party.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 14, 2011, 03:09:28 PM
http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ross4life on January 14, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html)
He's sure to get plenty of the Mayo GAA vote.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 14, 2011, 03:28:48 PM
http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html)
He's sure to get plenty of the Mayo GAA vote.

Do FF think they can keep two seats of the 5 in Mayo?

Kenny and Ring are safe. Looks like one of O'Mahony and Mulherrin for the 3rd FG.

Then you have Calleary, Flanagan, Cowley, the loser of the above and possibly long shot Murray for the other two seats, with Calleary favourite for one of them and a battle royale for the last one.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 14, 2011, 11:22:13 PM
http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/life-a-style/item/2159-dermot-flanagan-seeks-fianna-fáil-nomination-to-contest-general-election-in-mayo.html)
He's sure to get plenty of the Mayo GAA vote.

Do FF think they can keep two seats of the 5 in Mayo?

Kenny and Ring are safe. Looks like one of O'Mahony and Mulherrin for the 3rd FG.

Then you have Calleary, Flanagan, Cowley, the loser of the above and possibly long shot Murray for the other two seats, with Calleary favourite for one of them and a battle royale for the last one.
I am amazed that Flanagan wants to stand. I can’t see FF getting two seats and himself and Calleary could well succeed in messing each other up. I really can’t see Flanagan entering the race to hoover up extra votes for Calleary and I certainly don’t see FF getting the pair elected.
Mickey and Enda should come in 1 and 2 but that pair of hoors will each concentrate on outdoing the other and Mulherrin and O’Mahony may not benefit greatly from their surpluses.
There’s no love lost between the latter pair either and I doubt if they will engage in a vote management strategy. I don’t know to what extent O’Mahony’s disastrous stint as a football manager will influence the voting but it will hardly gain him any of those who are undecided.
From what I am hearing from FG heads in Swinford, Mulherrin seems to be the one more likely to win the third and last FG seat.
I expect Cowley to win back the seat he lost last time. There may not be a lot of labour voters in Mayo but he should benefit from a few extra cars on voting day and a couple of dozen extra canvassers 
How ‘bout….
Mickey …. Enda ….Dara … Michelle … Jerry?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 15, 2011, 12:32:37 PM
I can't see Cowley getting in Lar.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2011, 07:13:48 PM

Even the Sunday Independent, the voice of the boom,  turns against FF


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/soldiers-of-destiny-dont-even-have-a-map-2497979.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 16, 2011, 07:24:55 PM

Even the Sunday Independent, the voice of the boom,  turns against FF


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/soldiers-of-destiny-dont-even-have-a-map-2497979.html

Quote
Noel O'Flynn said on Friday that the election campaign would be "completely different" with a new leader.

Fianna Faill will want the voters to forget fueling the mess, to forget the bailout of the banks and to forget leading us into the hands of the IMF/EU.

However there are no canvassers (the Indo?) quite like FF ones for digging up the past.

Gimore's past?
Sinn Fein's past anyone?
Not to mention the fact they call FG 'the Blueshirts'?

I'm not saying I forget the past easily but for FF to suggest we forget it is comical. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 16, 2011, 07:47:14 PM
I can see John Drennan's version of events actually coming true. That FF could be down to 25 seats. The only 2 'bankers' would be Willie O'Dea and Cowen himself...indeed if Cowen lasts till election time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 16, 2011, 07:47:56 PM
I can't see Cowley getting in Lar.
Jerry seems to have dirtied his bib a bit with Rossport and his support went the last time.
you'd have to think Flanagan, a lot of People who voted for his father will vote for him and he's well liked. Very interesting election ahead, could come down to who is knocked out first Callerary or Mulherin, the other is guaranteed, there was only ever one seat in Ballina and it'll be surprising if that changes now.
I say FF two, FG three
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 16, 2011, 07:49:00 PM
Are u still voting FF Farrandeelin? If u are have u any reasons?
Just out of interest, if u don't want to answer u don't have to but please have more than FG/Labour would have done worse!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 16, 2011, 07:52:08 PM
Are u still voting FF Farre

How could anyone vote for them with the mess the country's in. No, I won't vote for them. Maybe Michelle, but as regards the Mayo constituency, it will probably be 3 FG seats, and 1 FF with Kilcoyne joining as independent.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 16, 2011, 08:37:34 PM
Are u still voting FF Farre

How could anyone vote for them with the mess the country's in. No, I won't vote for them. Maybe Michelle, but as regards the Mayo constituency, it will probably be 3 FG seats, and 1 FF with Kilcoyne joining as independent.

Michael Kilcoyne will be popular with the left minded vote in Mayo, he is ex-Labour, he has held senior positions in SIPTU & the Consumers Association of Ireland. He is town counciller in Castlebar and well liked in the County especially in the relatively densly populated central region of the county. He would get one of my ticks if I where back home for the next election.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on January 16, 2011, 08:49:30 PM
From www.irishtimes.com

Martin to vote against Cowen in confidence motion

Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has tendered his resignation to Taoiseach Brian Cowen and will vote against him in a motion of confidence this week as leader of the Fianna Fáil party.

After Mr Cowen challenged rebel ministers and backbenchers to vote him out, Mr Martin confirmed he would fight for a change in leadership.

At a hastily arranged press briefing in Dublin tonight, Mr Martin said the Taoiseach indicated he believes his resignation is not necessary.

Mr Martin - singled out as Mr Cowen’s main challenger - now faces the task of drumming up enough rebel support to oust the Taoiseach in a secret ballot.

“I welcome the decision of the Taoiseach to table a vote of confidence in himself at next Tuesday’s parliamentary party meeting. I will, in accordance with my views, be voting against the motion of confidence,” Mr Martin said.

“In these circumstances, I have offered my resignation to the Taoiseach.” However, Mr Martin confirmed he would stay on as Minister for Foreign Affairs at the Taoiseach’s request.

“I have reluctantly concluded that, in these circumstances, Fianna Fáil should change its leader before the election and I have informed the Taoiseach of this view,” Mr Martin said.

“Having talked to most members of the parliamentary party and many members of the party across the country I believe this is a widely held view.”

His comments follow Mr Cowen's earlier declaration that he intended to stay on at the helm of Fianna Fáil, insisting it was in the best interests of the country and the party.

In an effort to face down questions over his leadership, Mr Cowen said he planned to table a motion of confidence in himself as party leader at Tuesday's party meeting.

After two days of consultation with colleagues, Mr Cowen said he had come to the conclusion that stepping down would lead to confusion and loss of authority.

“As Taoiseach my total focus must remain with discharging my duties to the people,” he told a press briefing at the Alexander Hotel in Dublin.

“For Fianna Fáil the party is important but the interests of the country are paramount.” Mr Cowen said he had no considered resigning. “No. I made no indication of resigning at any time as leader of the party,” he said.

The Taoiseach accepted there was “an issue” over leadership but said that question should be resolved quickly.

Under normal Fianna Fáil party rules, a leader would only face a vote on the leadership if a parliamentary party member put forward a motion of no confidence.

He said he wanted to dispense with procedures and put forward the motion himself for a vote when TDs and Senators at Tuesday's parliamentary party meeting.

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan, considered one of the likelier candidates to take over as leader should Mr Cowen step down, said tonight he was glad the Taoiseach had tabled the motion of confidence in his leadership. A spokeswoman for the minister would not be drawn on how he would vote.

Minister for Tourism Mary Hanafin, another likely contender for the leadership, declined to comment.

Concerns over the Taoiseach’s leadership came to a head in the last week after he was publicly grilled in the Dáil on Wednesday on his contacts with former Anglo Irish Bank boss Sean FitzPatrick.

Under pressure, he revealed the names of two other business chiefs who joined him and Mr FitzPatrick for a post-golf match dinner in Druid’s Glen, Co Wicklow - Gary McGann, chief executive of Smurfit Kappa, who was a director of Anglo at the time, and Alan Gray, an economist appointed to the Central Bank board by Mr Cowen.

But tonight he rejected that his Anglo contacts were at issue. “The issue here is not about that at all,” he said.

“All members of the parliamentary party acknowledge my good faith in relation to all of these issues. My standing in the party is not under question in any way.”

Earlier Tánaiste Mary Coughlan confirmed Mr Cowen had completed his process of consulting party colleagues on his leadership.

“I believe that he has to the forefront of his mind this country, and naturally his party, and that the decision that he will be making will be in the best interests of this country,” she told RTÉ's This Week  programme.

But Minister of State for Education Seán Haughey, who spoke to Mr Cowen on Thursday, said the Taoiseach was not plotting to remain in office.

“I found him in a very philosophical humour, very genuinely open to discussion and debate,” he said.

“I didn’t get the impression of a man who was sitting there plotting to remain in power.” Mr Haughey said he told Mr Cowen he was not communicating with the electorate.

The minister said he got the impression Mr Cowen wanted to do what was best for the country and party.

“If he thought it was in the interests of the party, I think he would consider stepping down,” he told RTÉ Radio today.

Backbencher Noel O’Flynn has openly called for Mr Martin to take over as party leader.

“I think it is time for Brian Cowen to consider his position and to resign as leader of Fianna Fáil and I think what should happen then is that the parliamentary party should come in behind the candidature of Micheál Martin,” the Cork North Central TD said after speaking with Mr Cowen.

A no confidence vote in the Government, tabled by the Labour party, was temporarily blocked on Friday.

Government Chief Whip John Curran refused to free up Dáil time, forcing the party to wait for more than a week to test the Taoiseach’s support.

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore had branded the Government dysfunctional and said it was reneging on commitments to hold an election in the early part of the year.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on January 16, 2011, 09:27:31 PM
Are u still voting FF Farre

How could anyone vote for them with the mess the country's in. No, I won't vote for them. Maybe Michelle, but as regards the Mayo constituency, it will probably be 3 FG seats, and 1 FF with Kilcoyne joining as independent.

I thought u were died in the wool FF!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 17, 2011, 05:14:06 PM
Soon to unemployed highly paid retiree from Clara is on Newstalk blaming the International Financial System again.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 17, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/ (http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/)

Ger Gilroy tweeted the following article from 2002. 



Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 17, 2011, 11:52:19 PM
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/ (http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/)

Ger Gilroy tweeted the following article from 2002. 





Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2011, 10:12:12 AM

Even the Sunday Independent, the voice of the boom,  turns against FF


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/soldiers-of-destiny-dont-even-have-a-map-2497979.html

Quote
Noel O'Flynn said on Friday that the election campaign would be "completely different" with a new leader.

Fianna Faill will want the voters to forget fueling the mess, to forget the bailout of the banks and to forget leading us into the hands of the IMF/EU.

However there are no canvassers (the Indo?) quite like FF ones for digging up the past.

Gimore's past?
Sinn Fein's past anyone?
Not to mention the fact they call FG 'the Blueshirts'?

I'm not saying I forget the past easily but for FF to suggest we forget it is comical.

FF and FG make a point of abhorring political violence. The way they talk about the Shinners is noteworthy. In the FF mindset the ultimate sin is political violence. This is because FF is about stability, the national project, the people. Or was. Until Mid November 2010 and the arrival of the IMF. Shortly after, Barry Andrews was on RTE telling the audience and the people that the bailout and its bult in protection of bank bondholders was in the interest of the country's taxpayers. 

Fianna Fail has betrayed the people in favour of its failed banking friends.  There isn't any comeback from that.   

i don't buy the guff that a new young leader untainted by the collapse could be the basis for a regrouping. Who stood up and spoke out against the bank guarantee? What have the Andrews or Calleary done to support the taxpayer interest? Which of them voted against the advice of the whips on the votes that mattered? 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2011, 09:51:11 PM
I wonder what die hard FF voters think of the latest GUBU shenanigans.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 22, 2011, 11:00:49 PM
I wonder what die hard FF voters think of the latest GUBU shenanigans.

Sindo have them @ 8% but you can't believe anything that the Sindo says, grain of salt and all that.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 22, 2011, 11:15:50 PM
Quote
i don't buy the guff that a new young leader untainted by the collapse could be the basis for a regrouping. Who stood up and spoke out against the bank guarantee? What have the Andrews or Calleary done to support the taxpayer interest? Which of them voted against the advice of the whips on the votes that mattered?


That's for sure. And 8% is good enough for what has happened in the last week, i.e. ministers resigning en masse etc.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 22, 2011, 11:40:40 PM



I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 22, 2011, 11:46:54 PM
Set the zoom to 200% on your pc/laptop and you will see it says 70% will not change their voting intention even with a change of FF leadership. Not sure if that is among their core support, which is heartening, or among the general public, which would be discouraging.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on January 22, 2011, 11:54:01 PM



I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

I thought you were one of the diaspora beyond in England MGHU. How'd you get your hands on tomorrow's paper?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 12:08:24 AM

I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

I thought you were one of the diaspora beyond in England MGHU. How'd you get your hands on tomorrow's paper?

Took it from politics.ie, the paper can be got in Dublin the day before.

Not sure how the other parties fare, but you can be sure if will not be favourable to F.G. or S.F. either
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: IolarCoisCuain on January 23, 2011, 12:14:31 AM

I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

I thought you were one of the diaspora beyond in England MGHU. How'd you get your hands on tomorrow's paper?

Took it from politics.ie, the paper can be got in Dublin the day before.

Not sure how the other parties fare, but you can be sure if will not be favourable to F.G. or S.F. either

Cheers - that'd explain it.

Wouldn't worry too much about what's in the Sindo. The only thing I'd believe in that yoke is the date, and even then I'd check the phone just in case.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 23, 2011, 09:56:12 AM



I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

The editor of the Sunday Independent has a clause in his contract which states you must have a derogatory comment about Sinn Fein on the front of each edition.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on January 23, 2011, 01:05:11 PM
I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

When is that Red C poll out Mayo? Next Sunday? Will be a very interesting one.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 05:20:26 PM



I don't trust the Sindo polls, will be interesting to see the Red C poll next week. Not a fan of Sinn Fein but look at the top headline, the Sindo cannot help having a go at Sinn Fein.

The editor of the Sunday Independent has a clause in his contract which states you must have a derogatory comment about Sinn Fein on the front of each edition.

Annoys me the way they saying that Fianna Fáil are needed to ensure S.F. don't lead the next opposition, smells of the same O'Reilly propeganda they have spouted against Kenny for the last decade.

I want Fine Gael with a decent majority to lead the next government with Labour leading the opposition. If we can't have that, the next best choice is Fine Gael/Labour coalition with S.F. or a new left/right/centre group leading the opposition and not F.F. under a new name.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2011, 05:39:52 PM
The whole collapse has been spectacular. The only hope for FF would be a leader who resigned on principle say 8 or 10 years ago and was cast into the darkness over an argument about the risks the party was taking with the country but there is no such FF personality because FF doesnt do dissent. Or didn t . And nobody in the party knows anything about economics.

The finance Bill could also be in trouble.  If Lenihan s party is about to be destroyed at the polls why should his agreements with the ECB and the IMF  be signed into law?  Even the FT is calling for debt to equity swaps for the banks. It is not too late.   
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
The whole collapse has been spectacular. The only hope for FF would be a leader who resigned on principle say 8 or 10 years ago and was cast into the darkness over an argument about the risks the party was taking with the country but there is no such FF personality because FF doesnt do dissent. Or didn t . And nobody in the party knows anything about economics.

The finance Bill could also be in trouble. If Lenihan s party is about to be destroyed at the polls why should his agreements with the ECB and the IMF  be signed into law?  Even the FT is calling for debt to equity swaps for the banks. It is not too late.

Seafoid, how many seats so you reckon before F.F. is not sustainable anymore?

How do you reckon our standing internationally or the constitutionalty of those deals would hold up if Fianna Fáil where to get say less than 15 seats?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 23, 2011, 08:52:20 PM
Tonight with Vincent Browne

Fianna Fáil train crach http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne (http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: INDIANA on January 23, 2011, 09:16:08 PM
Hard to imagine any other Head of State going for pints midweek on a Tuesday evening. And then having to go back to the office to release a press statement about Harney's resignation. You couldnt make this up.
We are a laughing stock for the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2011, 09:39:01 PM
i see that even before he quit biffo wasnt heading to america for patricks day must have been afraid he'd bump into j.leno :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Peter Solan the Great on January 23, 2011, 09:42:51 PM
i see that even before he quit biffo wasnt heading to america for patricks day must have been afraid he'd bump into j.leno :D

Hardly since he called the election for March the 11th before he quit as leader of Fianna Fail.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2011, 09:46:38 PM
i'm right this time peter, he had already asked mary mcaleese to present the shamrock a fortnight ago
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Cosmo Kramer on January 23, 2011, 09:53:32 PM
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/ (http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/)

Ger Gilroy tweeted the following article from 2002. 







MGHU - all politics is cyclical. That was a ridiculous article by O'Dea, it was what he wanted to see and had no bearing on what was really going to happen. The same applies to what you want to see now, the end of FF. It is no more likely than the end of FG was back then.

FF will get in and around 30 seats in the next election and will lead the opposition to a FG/LAB coalition under a new leader. As time goes on and the economy continues to struggle they will gain in the polls as opposition parties always do in times of recession. The alternative always seems better to the public. Next election they will make a comeback under some kind of 'New Fianna Fail - lets bring back the good times' approach and make significant gains - maybe not enough to regain power. But at some point in the future with a host of new names on the front bench they will get back in. Because nothing ever changes in Irish politics and nothing ever will.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: belleaqua on January 23, 2011, 10:06:04 PM
http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/ (http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/2002-article-by-willie-odea-fine-gaels-future-looks-bleak/)

Ger Gilroy tweeted the following article from 2002. 







MGHU - all politics is cyclical. That was a ridiculous article by O'Dea, it was what he wanted to see and had no bearing on what was really going to happen. The same applies to what you want to see now, the end of FF. It is no more likely than the end of FG was back then.

FF will get in and around 30 seats in the next election and will lead the opposition to a FG/LAB coalition under a new leader. As time goes on and the economy continues to struggle they will gain in the polls as opposition parties always do in times of recession. The alternative always seems better to the public. Next election they will make a comeback under some kind of 'New Fianna Fail - lets bring back the good times' approach and make significant gains - maybe not enough to regain power. But at some point in the future with a host of new names on the front bench they will get back in. Because nothing ever changes in Irish politics and nothing ever will.

Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2011, 10:41:09 PM
The whole collapse has been spectacular. The only hope for FF would be a leader who resigned on principle say 8 or 10 years ago and was cast into the darkness over an argument about the risks the party was taking with the country but there is no such FF personality because FF doesnt do dissent. Or didn t . And nobody in the party knows anything about economics.

The finance Bill could also be in trouble. If Lenihan s party is about to be destroyed at the polls why should his agreements with the ECB and the IMF  be signed into law?  Even the FT is calling for debt to equity swaps for the banks. It is not too late.

Seafoid, how many seats so you reckon before F.F. is not sustainable anymore?

How do you reckon our standing internationally or the constitutionalty of those deals would hold up if Fianna Fáil where to get say less than 15 seats?

FF have never gotten less than 60 seats I think so half that would be in the danger zone. You need 7000 votes or so to get elected and that is a lot the way things are going with senior leaders abandoning the ship and FF now a magnet for incompetence. How are ordinary punters going to vote for these clowns ? How the  FF vote holds up amongst people under 40 will be crucial.    At this stage is any seat safe ?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 23, 2011, 11:23:39 PM
Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.

You are probably right but FF have financial problems as well. It will be hard to raise funds now and it will be even harder in opposition. The media slag off Kenny but this is the sort of behinds the scenes work he did in FG.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on January 23, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
enda will have no bother raising funds now once the 'mob'  get the scent of a win the cash will flow every cronie will come running
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: belleaqua on January 24, 2011, 12:55:23 AM
Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.

You are probably right but FF have financial problems as well. It will be hard to raise funds now and it will be even harder in opposition. The media slag off Kenny but this is the sort of behinds the scenes work he did in FG.

Ya, I believe so but I dont think thats of huge significance. Maybe Im wrong. I dont dont raising money has been a major problem for the traditional parties nor will it be in the future to the extent that it will severely curtail their impact.

And Kenny did do a good job rebuilding the party and I think the next FF leader will do exactly the same because they simply have to. Personally I think Kenny gets a very hard time of it but I dont think the overall public perception of him will change dramatically even if he becomes a rather effective Taoiseach which I think he will. Expectations are so low he cant possibly fail.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bogball XV on January 24, 2011, 01:50:45 AM
[/Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.
The cumann system strength is a myth imo, maybe 20 yrs ago, but what are they now?  4 or 5 people (not necessarily the great and the bright either) in a room once a month talking rubbish, maybe it's different where you are, but that sums up what I've been told by several former ogres.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: belleaqua on January 24, 2011, 02:22:17 AM
[/Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.
The cumann system strength is a myth imo, maybe 20 yrs ago, but what are they now?  4 or 5 people (not necessarily the great and the bright either) in a room once a month talking rubbish, maybe it's different where you are, but that sums up what I've been told by several former ogres.

Thats true Bogball XV, still strong in many areas but equally as you say weak in others. What I mean is its a starting point for a new leader, they doesnt have to be created they already exist, even if dormant. Thats where they'll start again, new beginning, youth bla bla bla. I certainly wouldnt count against a strong return for FF
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2011, 09:51:19 AM
[/Not far off the mark there I reckon. People predicting the demise/end of Fianna Fail will end up disappointed. No matter how bad things go in the next election they'll bounce back. Firstly they have by far the most effective organisation of any party both at HQ and more crucially among the grassroots. The Cumann system remains strong throughout the country and Fianna Fail will always have a significant core support. Talk of 8% today is absolute sh*te.
The cumann system strength is a myth imo, maybe 20 yrs ago, but what are they now?  4 or 5 people (not necessarily the great and the bright either) in a room once a month talking rubbish, maybe it's different where you are, but that sums up what I've been told by several former ogres.

Thats true Bogball XV, still strong in many areas but equally as you say weak in others. What I mean is its a starting point for a new leader, they doesnt have to be created they already exist, even if dormant. Thats where they'll start again, new beginning, youth bla bla bla. I certainly wouldnt count against a strong return for FF

Fianna Fail is in meltdown. Discipline has been reasonable to date but once the government falls the backstabbing is going to come out into the open. Can you imagine how Batt O Keeffe and Mary Hanafin feel about Lenihan?

On 15 November O Keeffe told the assembled multitudes at the embassy in London that Ireland was not in contact with the IMF.

http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2010/11/speech-by-minister-for-enterprise-trade-and-innovation-batt-o-keeffe-td-at-ida-ireland-business-development-dinner-irish-embassy-in-london-15-november-2010/?cat=

2 days later they landed. Hanafin was also kept out of the loop. Tony Killeen was humiliated on RTE over the same thing. Pat Carey too.-  This is going to erupt into open warfare.

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2011/jan/23/diarmuid-doyle-last-weeks-mass-resignation-was-a-p/

  The Titanic sank after hitting an iceberg; Fianna Fáil after barging into the inevitable consequences of its own incompetence

There isn't going to be any comeback.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on January 24, 2011, 10:07:48 AM
Lads, I think yis are all going mad if you think Fianna Fail is going to be obliterated. Unless you mean that it will reform under a different banner or something. There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

I would think Fianna Fail will take the mother and father of a beating in this election, similar, if not worse than that which Fine Gael under Michael Noonan took. Enda Kenny did trojan work there in restructuring and unifying that party, and someone else will do the same at Fianna Fail.

I think Mark Twain would see parallels with some of the predictions being put forth about how FF is going to be sundered to the four winds. Once as a punishment measure, and then they'll be back, assuming they get 4 years in opposition to organise themselves.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on January 24, 2011, 10:50:26 AM
Quote
There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

Do you think "big business and finance" is going to hang around waiting for FF to get their act together - I think the Party (big P) is over!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2011, 11:14:53 AM
Look at what the FT is saying. Business is going to abandon FF.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/de38ea96-2722-11e0-80d7-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1BwgXZkPN

Irish meltdown

Ireland’s coalition has become the first eurozone government to fall as a result of Europe’s debt crisis. That is unsurprising. Yet, the justifiable anger of Irish voters at being saddled with the debts of their reckless bankers cannot itself explain the extraordinary implosion of Fianna Fáil, the party that has long dominated Irish politics. Brian Cowen, the prime minister, was forced into calling early elections on Thursday, to resign as party leader on Saturday, all after winning a confidence vote from his parliamentary party on Tuesday. His discredited leadership had been challenged after undisclosed meetings with Sean FitzPatrick, the banker at the heart of the financial crisis, came to light. What followed was utterly cynical.  Six members of the cabinet resigned and Mr Cowen tried to give an electoral leg-up to lesser-known Fianna Fáil MPs with scattergun offers of ministerial portfolios. This reshuffle – and eventually the government itself – was scuttled by the party’s Green coalition partners, leaving Fianna Fáil in meltdown and mutiny.

These factional antics, as Ireland faces arguably the worst crisis in its history as an independent nation, could turn the expected Fianna Fáil rout at the polls into electoral annihilation. That may be richly deserved. This is, after all, the party that through its cronyism and incompetence artificially prolonged the boom of the 1990s into the credit and property bubble of the past decade, and then gave a blanket guarantee to its banker friends that has ended in the humiliation of Ireland becoming a ward of the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

Fianna Fáil will almost certainly be replaced by a coalition of the centre-right Fine Gael and centre-left Labour parties. But it will be vacating a lot of political space, some of which will be taken up by populists, including the Republicans of Sinn Féin, now poised for a breakthrough in the south.  It is thus vitally important that the campaign now opening properly addresses the issues of governance and accountability raised by the crisis. Whether creditors of the banks should share the pain of the bail-out with taxpayers will – and should – be a dominant theme, and the mainstream parties must take ownership of this and not leave the field to the populists.
This should also be the occasion for the independent voices clamouring for a new politics in Ireland to come forward and lay out their stalls. Irish voters, and the future of the republic, need no less.


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on January 24, 2011, 11:28:55 AM
I see Conor Lenihan has announced he’s not a candidate for leader of FF. I want to take this opportunity to announce that our cat has decided against applying for the job of conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Denn Forever on January 24, 2011, 11:34:39 AM
I see Conor Lenihan has announced he’s not a candidate for leader of FF. I want to take this opportunity to announce that our cat has decided against applying for the job of conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic.

Maybe they don't want a falling out like the Milibands.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on January 24, 2011, 11:46:14 AM
Quote
I see Conor Lenihan has announced he’s not a candidate for leader of FF. I want to take this opportunity to announce that our cat has decided against applying for the job of conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic.

Is there a more unctuous arrogant imbecile than this boyo?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on January 24, 2011, 01:14:31 PM
Quote
There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

Do you think "big business and finance" is going to hang around waiting for FF to get their act together - I think the Party (big P) is over!

No, they won't wait, but as soon as the bloodletting is over and the ship gets refloated, people will gravitate back to those they think align most closely with them. All these headline stories about FF being finished are only looking at the next election in my opinion. Sure FG were 'finished' 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Bogball XV on January 24, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
Look at what the FT is saying. Business is going to abandon FF.
 
As someone stated above, business will always follow whoever has power.  There seems to be an opinion out there that cronyism etc is linked only to FF, it may seem that way because they have been in power for most of the period since the inception of the state, give other parties power and we will see better what the truth is.  The brief periods that FG/Lab have governed in the past 20 yrs have hardly been without their share of scandals, corruption and cronyism.

Maybe this time it'll be different, but isn't that what they said about the irish property boom.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Galwaybhoy on January 24, 2011, 01:48:11 PM
Quote
There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

Do you think "big business and finance" is going to hang around waiting for FF to get their act together - I think the Party (big P) is over!

No, they won't wait, but as soon as the bloodletting is over and the ship gets refloated, people will gravitate back to those they think align most closely with them. All these headline stories about FF being finished are only looking at the next election in my opinion. Sure FG were 'finished' 10 years ago.

Sadly both Parties will be around for along time to come.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 24, 2011, 01:50:10 PM
Quote
There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

Do you think "big business and finance" is going to hang around waiting for FF to get their act together - I think the Party (big P) is over!

No, they won't wait, but as soon as the bloodletting is over and the ship gets refloated, people will gravitate back to those they think align most closely with them. All these headline stories about FF being finished are only looking at the next election in my opinion. Sure FG were 'finished' 10 years ago.

All the media were jumping on FG's grave 10 years but there seemed little reason why. Yes they had a bad election because Noonan said cuts were inevitable. FF said otherwise, got elected, and introduced the cuts anyway. Within two years McCreevy was sent on his way and there would be no more cuts.

FF's demise this time round is for entirely different reasons. Even loyal FF supporters are disgusted with them. The unions which stood with them throughout the whole partnership era have abandoned them and big business has run a mile. It will be interesting to see what the Indo does in this campaign. My guess is they will attack Gilmore and SF relentlessly.

Of course these things do go in cycles and there could well be a swing back at the next election but I think it would need to a few years away before people forget what got us to where we are now.

I think we would all love a genuine alternative to our scummy political system to emerge. But it is unlikely.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on January 24, 2011, 02:39:28 PM
I just want to clarify something lest people think I'm on hard narcotics. When I say Fianna Fail will be back after 4 years, I don't mean back in power. I mean back in the discussion as a major party again.

I can't see FF in power until 3 elections time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2011, 03:30:05 PM
Quote
There will always be a party in Ireland that represents big business and finance.

Do you think "big business and finance" is going to hang around waiting for FF to get their act together - I think the Party (big P) is over!

No, they won't wait, but as soon as the bloodletting is over and the ship gets refloated, people will gravitate back to those they think align most closely with them. All these headline stories about FF being finished are only looking at the next election in my opinion. Sure FG were 'finished' 10 years ago.

Yeah but FG didn't drive the country into the arms of the IMF. The cuts have barely even  started . 20/23 years have been FF. For this.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on January 24, 2011, 03:30:40 PM
I just want to clarify something lest people think I'm on hard narcotics. When I say Fianna Fail will be back after 4 years, I don't mean back in power. I mean back in the discussion as a major party again.

I can't see FF in power until 3 elections time.

I see the oul lunch did you the world of good.  :D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2011, 09:32:43 AM
Ireland: Fianna Foiled
Mr Cowen has surely done for his party, whomever it scrambles to put in his place
•   
o   Tweet this
o   Share 
o   
o   
•   Comments (14)
•   Editorial
•   The Guardian, Tuesday 25 January 2011
•   Article history
As much as a fifth of the economy has been washed away, but the bedrock is becoming visible and Ireland is inching out of recession. If the collapse of the boom is complete, the collapse of the politics it once supported is only just beginning. The principal victim could be the most successful party in western Europe.
The eternal fixers of Irish politics, Fianna Fáil – who have dominated the Dail since the 1930s – have now got themselves in a fix. Their mix of pragmatism, populism and parish politics has exerted a remarkably steady hold on around 45% of the electorate, occasionally but never permanently weakened by corruption scandals. But having cashed in on the bubble it presided over, the party was hit hard by the bust, delving to historic polling lows even before the hungover radio interview that sparked months of muttering about Brian Cowen's leadership.
Recourse to the IMF compromised economic sovereignty, tainting the ethos of the self-described "republican party", and at the start of the year a respectable poll gave it just 14%. Since then revelations about the taoiseach's involvement with the notorious financier Seán FitzPatrick have provoked ministerial resignations. Even worse, he responded to these with extraordinarily maladroit manoeuvring over cabinet posts, which persuaded his Green coalition partners to walk away, and an early general election is now on the way.
Although Mr Cowen will not fight it, he has surely done for his party, whomever it scrambles to put in his place. The party that allowed bankers, builders and landlords to gamble away a nation's prosperity deserves to be swept from power. But how much will truly change with the administration is unclear. This month Irish workers are noticing that their pay packets are lighter, thanks to December's austerity budget. Few believe a change of political personnel will alter their personal circumstances. That scepticism is well-founded. Last night's cross-party jockeying aimed to salvage the finance bill, and served as a reminder that – aside from the drawbridge economics of Sinn Féin – the electorate's choice is between flavours of deflation."There is no alternative" is a somewhat stronger argument across the Irish Sea. Euro membership restricts the options, while the sheer size of bank debts and the past dependence of tax revenues on vanishing sources, such as rising property values, make pain inevitable. The question is who adjusts – and bankers, their creditors and indeed Dublin's own lenders all have a part to play alongside the mass of the people. If Ireland's ossified party system cannot see to the pain being shared around, then within an election or two it could be consigned to the dustbin of history.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on January 25, 2011, 09:50:45 AM
drawbridge economics, wtf does that mean  ???
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 25, 2011, 01:47:12 PM
drawbridge economics, wtf does that mean  ???

Its when you crawl back into the Castle, pull up the drawbridge, you have no food or water, your outnumbered by unbeatable numbers and there are no reinforcements on the way.

That seems to be Sinn Féins & the UWA tactics to win this economic war. To be honest Labour seems to have half its army in the castle and the other half running around the battle field with their kilts in the air. Fianna Fáil are drowning themselves in the moat and Fine Gael are wondering what the fck labour are at on their left flank. The Greens have gone back to their fields to plant organic turnips and Jackie is on his Donkey driving the Bull into the Turnip patch. While our European Allies are in the Bay thinking wtf's going on.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: ludermor on January 25, 2011, 02:42:27 PM
Yes indeed Fine Gael are indeed playing a blinder.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Banana Man on January 25, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
i think it's fair to say that no-one is pulling up any trees at the minute then

i would say all of the opposition parties were creaming themselves over this whole saga, salivating at the prospect of the potential swing in popularity but sweet lord they have dithered and muttered around this golden opportunity!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on January 25, 2011, 03:06:50 PM
Fianna Fáil sickness list :

Dermot Ahern (Louth)
Noel Dempsey (Meath West)
Tony Killeen (Clare)
Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North-West)
Michael Finneran (Roscommon-South Leitrim)
Seán Ardagh (Dublin South-Central)
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central)
Noel Ahern (Dublin North-West)
Dr Jimmy Devins (Sligo-North Leitrim)
Beverly Flynn (Mayo)
Tom Kitt (Dublin South)
M.J. Nolan (Carlow-Kilkenny)
Dr Rory O’Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan)
Ned O'Keeffe (Cork East)
Noel Treacy (Galway East)
Mary Wallace (Meath East)
Dr Michael Woods (Dublin North-East)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2011, 07:15:03 PM
Beginning to look like no FFer wants to stand in Ros/Sth Laythrum  :D
They'll have to press gang some Austin Currie 1990 type eejit to stand anyway just for the sake of it
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on January 25, 2011, 07:36:39 PM
Maybe MayoGodHelpUs could explain why FG are facilitating the passage of a finance bill to which they claim they intractably opposed.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2011, 07:53:42 PM
Maybe MayoGodHelpUs could explain why FG are facilitating the passage of a finance bill to which they claim they intractably opposed.
Haven't they alluded to a Finance Bill Pt 2 later in the year that will supersede this one? Is this one not just to expediate the change of government?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on January 25, 2011, 08:01:49 PM
Not necessary to go through this pantomine to facilitate change of government, a simple no confidence motion will do that. They are afraid to take ownership and responsibility for this disasterous bill , so they feign opposition, and hope to blame FF for putting it through. Cowardly, hypocritical curs who are unfit to govern
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2011, 08:49:49 PM
Not necessary to go through this pantomine to facilitate change of government, a simple no confidence motion will do that. They are afraid to take ownership and responsibility for this disasterous bill , so they feign opposition, and hope to blame FF for putting it through. Cowardly, hypocritical curs who are unfit to govern
Maybe. But any opposition about to get into government would arguably do the same. The only people insisting on the alternative can comfortably do so because they know they won't be in a position to have to make any of the tough calls or put their alternatives to the test.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 08:58:34 PM
Not necessary to go through this pantomine to facilitate change of government, a simple no confidence motion will do that. They are afraid to take ownership and responsibility for this disasterous bill , so they feign opposition, and hope to blame FF for putting it through. Cowardly, hypocritical curs who are unfit to govern
Maybe. But any opposition about to get into government would arguably do the same. The only people insisting on the alternative can comfortably do so because they know they won't be in a position to have to make any of the tough calls or put their alternatives to the test.

True but that just shows the quality of politician and political party we have. FG and Labour could kill the finance bill (remember they have been saying that FF don't have a mandate for this bill) but instead really want it to pass so that they can blame FF when they get into government. The alternative is to kill it, rewrite it and stand over their own legislation but both are too cowardly. You know what - I think the people are starting to realise this cos I've been listening to people at work who are not what I'd call "politically astute" who see the above for what it is. I think SF are the only ones who are sticking to their guns and could reape the rewards.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2011, 09:17:16 PM
Agreed Myles, FG/Lab should have done just that. And they'd have sufficient breathing space to turn things around before facing the electorate again. Having said that, it's easy for SF to continue to protest as they know they won't be in a position to have to actually make some necessary and politically unpopular decisions.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on January 25, 2011, 09:23:17 PM
The point Maguire is that SF have the balls to make decisions, to say what they mean and mean what they say. Be they right or wrong, can be a matter for debate, but at least they are honest with the electorate
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on January 25, 2011, 09:32:41 PM
The point Maguire is that SF have the balls to make decisions, to say what they mean and mean what they say. Be they right or wrong, can be a matter for debate, but at least they are honest with the electorate
No, my point is that they are unlikely to have to make any of the decisions. We can all talk the talk if we know we won't have to walk the walk. That doesn't take any balls.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 25, 2011, 10:19:26 PM
Not necessary to go through this pantomine to facilitate change of government, a simple no confidence motion will do that. They are afraid to take ownership and responsibility for this disasterous bill , so they feign opposition, and hope to blame FF for putting it through. Cowardly, hypocritical curs who are unfit to govern
Maybe. But any opposition about to get into government would arguably do the same. The only people insisting on the alternative can comfortably do so because they know they won't be in a position to have to make any of the tough calls or put their alternatives to the test.

True but that just shows the quality of politician and political party we have. FG and Labour could kill the finance bill (remember they have been saying that FF don't have a mandate for this bill) but instead really want it to pass so that they can blame FF when they get into government. The alternative is to kill it, rewrite it and stand over their own legislation but both are too cowardly. You know what - I think the people are starting to realise this cos I've been listening to people at work who are not what I'd call "politically astute" who see the above for what it is. I think SF are the only ones who are sticking to their guns and could reape the rewards.

That would take for granted that they get a majority. That would be very naive. Ask Neil Kinnock. If they pull it down now and we end up with a hung Dail after the election the finance bill might not get passed in any form for months. Look at Belgium who are without a Government now for 227 days.

I was and am against the Bailout as negotiated by FF. The interest rate is too high and they should have separated at least some of the private debt and not landed it on the taxpayer. However if no version of the budget soon is passed we will be Zimbabwe in weeks.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on January 25, 2011, 10:50:09 PM
Muppet - all ifs and buts. Parties need to have some integrity and act on what they believe in. The imf and eu can bloody wait until the democratic wheels have turned. A government with no real mandate putting through this bill is more akin to Zimbabwe I reckon.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Orangemac on January 25, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
Labour we know are trying to be populist constantly but Fine Gael have let themselves down badly with this charade.

If they are against the Finance Bill, vote against it. The election will come soon enough and the first thing they can do is to draft their own budget.

It is easy for SF to say the deal is bad, they will not have to have to make this call. You would hope that behind the official line, FG are planning to negotiate both the interest on the loan and forcing senior bondholders to take a hit.

The IMF seem to have been overruled by the EU in this regard but both realise the government were on their last legs and the deal is not going to collapse for the sake of a few weeks.

If not will FG be much better than FF?

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on January 25, 2011, 11:10:54 PM
Muppet - all ifs and buts. Parties need to have some integrity and act on what they believe in. The imf and eu can bloody wait until the democratic wheels have turned. A government with no real mandate putting through this bill is more akin to Zimbabwe I reckon.

My Zimbabwe analogy was with their economy, not the integrity of their Government. If the budget isn't passed by the 7th March it must be done from scratch again. The State might even have to refund everyone that has been taxed since. That though would be the least of its worries.

One of the problems created by Lenihan is how much he has tied our hands with the bank guarantee and the bailout. No Finance Bill = No bailout and No bailout I reckon now means we are completely bankrupt. Just shouting no is not an option. Within a short period of time public servants pay, social welfare payments and state pension would stop. Left leaning parties might need to think about that.

Re-structuring the private (bank) debt is the way to go imho but the normal part of the budget still has to go through.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on January 26, 2011, 12:27:27 AM
No one is suggesting that we dont pass the finance bill Muppet. The people should have their say on it first, along with any alternative proposals for it. Of course there must be a default on the Bank guarantee, it simply is not possible to pay it, and there is no legal or moral imperative to do so. Any party who refuses to recognise this should be roundly rejected at the Polls, as they are dishonest or seriously deluded
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
seems like micky martin got all chucky at the wolf tone commemoration at the weekend.. with the shinners breathing down the soldiers of density's neck micky thinks that nordieland is the way to go. jez how the stoops dodged a bullet when they pulled out of a merger with the fianna failures. this merger would surely have nailed the lid on their coffin tight shut. anyhow mickys not gonna set up here in norn iron just yet. because he knows that bright light that frightened big al all the way back to his two or three clinics would also show up the trecherous micky for what he is.. a complete bluffer
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2012, 09:22:17 PM
All politicians are bluffers, FF always get Nationalistic in opposition and were they not ahead of SF in the latest opinion poll?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on October 22, 2012, 09:28:30 PM
The fact is, they remain the only viable alternative as things stand - as depressing as that is. As much as people don't want them back in government, they want SF in government even less.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Agent Orange on October 22, 2012, 09:40:17 PM
Bit of sabre rettling from Micheál Martin, but he is not far off the mark with what he is saying.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 09:59:11 PM
Bit of sabre rettling from Micheál Martin, but he is not far off the mark with what he is saying.
then he should try his hand in the next election. theres one thing people north of the border dont do and thats forget easily. micky and his mates would be torn to shreds  in minutes. he dismisses problems like parading as if he'd fix them in seconds hes the guy who presided over the capitulation of ireland.. the surrender of sovereignty.. the tent.. druids glen.. cronyism.. e- voting and on and on.. the bnp would get more votes in the six than fianna fail so would wullie frazer.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Agent Orange on October 22, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
Fianna Fáil will be back in power well before the end of the decade.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on October 22, 2012, 10:22:17 PM
Fianna Fáil will be back in power well before the end of the decade.

'fianna gael' have never been out of power they're the same party they might as well join now and give labour the boot because come the next election all labour will have is a handful of ministerial pensions..
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Evil Genius on October 23, 2012, 01:43:42 AM
Bit of sabre rettling from Micheál Martin, but he is not far off the mark with what he is saying.
So Mr Martin feels that FG have neglected NI far too much recently? As a Northerner myself, I have to say I'm glad, and trust that FF will follow suit as and when they next get into power.

After all, we've more than enough useless* political parties of our own to worry about, without importing more...


* - At best.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on February 10, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
Fianna Fáil will be back in power well before the end of the decade.
topping the polls  :o :o :o

agent you dont happen to have the lotto numbers for next weekend handy you may have a gift there
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Itchy on February 10, 2013, 10:35:25 PM
There are some amount of morons in this country and the deserve to be pennyless.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: T Fearon on February 11, 2013, 07:18:54 AM
The answer is No,even if I was allowed the option!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on February 11, 2013, 10:26:52 AM

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: magpie seanie on February 11, 2013, 12:14:50 PM
There are some amount of morons in this country and the deserve to be pennyless.


Yes - trouble is they bring the rest of us with them though.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 11, 2013, 04:51:01 PM
There are some amount of morons in this country and the deserve to be pennyless.


Yes - trouble is they bring the rest of us with them though.

We are not alone though:


Title: 27% and rising
Post by: muppet on February 16, 2013, 07:49:35 PM
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/poll-confirms-ff-as-biggest-party-585049.html (http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/poll-confirms-ff-as-biggest-party-585049.html)

This will be the greatest comeback since Nixon. That ended well too.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2013, 07:56:42 PM
When will the Irish middle classes ever learn?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2013, 08:06:58 PM
When will the Irish middle classes ever learn?


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2013, 11:31:07 AM
This was taken before the promissory note deal, if I'm not mistaken. I'd assume FG will get some bounce from that.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 17, 2013, 12:10:00 PM

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 17, 2013, 02:42:32 PM
This was taken before the promissory note deal, if I'm not mistaken. I'd assume FG will get some bounce from that.

Nope.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on February 17, 2013, 03:55:14 PM
Not really surprised since the majority of people voted for them over the years knowing full well that they were a shower of liars, gangsters and  stroke pullers. A fair reflection of Irish society since independence I'd have said
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 17, 2013, 05:57:41 PM
Maybe it would be better if FF got in at the next election. The economy will still be fucked and another 5 years of their ineptitude and gombeen clientilism could finish them off for good.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Itchy on February 17, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
Maybe it would be better if FF got in at the next election. The economy will still be fucked and another 5 years of their ineptitude and gombeen clientilism could finish them off for good.
What makes you think that seafood, if bankrupting the country is not enough to finish them off then nothing will. Unfortunately there are a hard core of 20% of ff supporters who are simply retarded morons and they deserve what the recession gives them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
Maybe it would be better if FF got in at the next election. The economy will still be fucked and another 5 years of their ineptitude and gombeen clientilism could finish them off for good.
What makes you think that seafood, if bankrupting the country is not enough to finish them off then nothing will. Unfortunately there are a hard core of 20% of ff supporters who are simply retarded morons and they deserve what the recession gives them.

Funny, we were told for years that there was a hard core of 40% of FF supporters who are simply retarded morons and that was why a progressive alternative was impossible. The idea that FG and Labour were plain useless never entered the equation. I suppose the 'hard core' shrinking to 20% represents progress.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: SLIGONIAN on February 18, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
For the love of God can someone explain to me how anyone in their right mind would vote these scumbags again?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Canalman on February 18, 2013, 10:13:14 AM

Fine Gael have never been re- elected to Government. Why is that ?

For me it has no real reason to exist except a hatred of deValera and by continuation FF. Not good enough these days.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2013, 10:28:57 AM

Fine Gael have never been re- elected to Government. Why is that ?

For me it has no real reason to exist except a hatred of deValera and by continuation FF. Not good enough these days.

What reason does FF have to exist? Far less if you ask me.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 10:35:12 AM
Some one has to represent the interests/feather the nests of the builders/developers/publicans and all the other gombeen cnuts  >:(
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 10:37:09 AM
Fine Gael have been even worse than Fianna Fail.
There are no alternatives.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on February 18, 2013, 10:41:15 AM

Fine Gael have never been re- elected to Government. Why is that ?

For me it has no real reason to exist except a hatred of deValera and by continuation FF. Not good enough these days.

What reason does FF have to exist? Far less if you ask me.

FF/FG, opposite sides of the same civil war coin.
Both born of the same early post-independence attitude of "at least he's one of our own" and both survive because we have a great tolerance for parish pump politicians "he is a great mad to sort out your problems with the council".
The Irish have never minded dodgy dealings so long as they are on the inside track.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2013, 10:44:19 AM
Fine Gael have been even worse than Fianna Fail.
There are no alternatives.


Look, I don't think there's any huge difference between the two, but I don't see how you can say FG have been worse than FF.
FF bankrupted the country ffs!! FG/Lab govt has had to implement unpopular decisions precisely because of the FF f**k ups.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on February 18, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
Fine Gael have been even worse than Fianna Fail.
There are no alternatives.

Even worse - don't think so. Just as bad I could accept. Even worse is what closet FF voters say to justify their stupidity. FF and FG should amalgamate, there is no difference between them ideologically. Labour are the big let down, showing they can be just as useless as the other two. Is there no party that will work for the better of the people of Ireland?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 10:54:35 AM
I remember in previous elections Fine Gael were promising tax cuts and spending increases just like Fianna Fail.
The country would have ended up in the same situation.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2013, 11:02:13 AM
Even worse - don't think so. Just as bad I could accept. Even worse is what closet FF voters say to justify their stupidity. FF and FG should amalgamate, there is no difference between them ideologically. Labour are the big let down, showing they can be just as useless as the other two. Is there no party that will work for the better of the people of Ireland?

I think there is a large constituency in FG that not only thinks the austerity is necessary but thinks it is virtuous. If you're poor, it's because you are lazy and feckless and it's about time you had the safety net removed. I don't think there is any such attitude in Labour, so what their excuse for the slash-and-burn policies is, I don't know.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on February 18, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
Even worse - don't think so. Just as bad I could accept. Even worse is what closet FF voters say to justify their stupidity. FF and FG should amalgamate, there is no difference between them ideologically. Labour are the big let down, showing they can be just as useless as the other two. Is there no party that will work for the better of the people of Ireland?

I think there is a large constituency in FG that not only thinks the austerity is necessary but thinks it is virtuous. If you're poor, it's because you are lazy and feckless and it's about time you had the safety net removed. I don't think there is any such attitude in Labour, so what their excuse for the slash-and-burn policies is, I don't know.

Labour are part of it. If they want out they know what to do. Seems to me their principles were sacrificed for power. That's why they are being hammered in the polls. At least FG are just doing what most sane people know they will do, piss on the poor. Labour on the other hand tell us one thing and do the other.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2013, 11:19:34 AM
Labour are part of it. If they want out they know what to do. Seems to me their principles were sacrificed for power. That's why they are being hammered in the polls. At least FG are just doing what most sane people know they will do, piss on the poor. Labour on the other hand tell us one thing and do the other.

Sounds about right to me. I voted Labour in the last election and am bitterly regretting it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on February 18, 2013, 11:47:53 AM
A thread about Fianna Fail and we end u[p talking about FG and Lab. No wonder we're Fubarred
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Canalman on February 18, 2013, 12:03:41 PM
Fianna Fáil when formed represented the "small guys" in the State........... the small farmer, agricultural labourer, the labourers, tradesmen, urban industrial class etc. Fine Gael were the merchant princes, big farmers, Clongowes boys, Castle Catholics ............all with  ingrained utter contempt for the not so well off here in Ireland.

As the losing side in the Civil War it got a devoted loyalty from its supporters which by and large has not gone away despite the mess they made in the last 10/15 years.

Fine Gael can sneer away but they just don't have it in their DNA to govern. FG gets in to power every now and then when people get tired of FF.

FF will return to the  35%40%  election vote shortly enough mark my words.

Personally can see FF storming back in the next decade lean and mean again.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 12:13:14 PM
Maybe it would be better if FF got in at the next election. The economy will still be fucked and another 5 years of their ineptitude and gombeen clientilism could finish them off for good.
What makes you think that seafood, if bankrupting the country is not enough to finish them off then nothing will. Unfortunately there are a hard core of 20% of ff supporters who are simply retarded morons and they deserve what the recession gives them.
Whoever faces FF in any election in the future has very rich ad material in what happened 2008-09.
But a lot of people will vote for them regardless. I blame the education system.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2013, 12:13:37 PM
FF will return to the  35%40%  election vote shortly enough mark my words.

Personally can see FF storming back in the next decade lean and mean again.

We'll see, but I doubt it. For a lot of people the habit has been broken. They gave someone other than FF their number 1 in the last election and the polling booth wasn't struck by a lightning bolt. In addition, FF is a hollowed-out party. The infrastructure that dominated Irish politics has been badly weakened. There is one FF councillor on Waterford City Council. It's not much of a platform on which to base any storming back.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2013, 12:19:39 PM
Fianna Fáil when formed represented the "small guys" in the State........... the small farmer, agricultural labourer, the labourers, tradesmen, urban industrial class etc. Fine Gael were the merchant princes, big farmers, Clongowes boys, Castle Catholics ............all with  ingrained utter contempt for the not so well off here in Ireland.

As the losing side in the Civil War it got a devoted loyalty from its supporters which by and large has not gone away despite the mess they made in the last 10/15 years.

Fine Gael can sneer away but they just don't have it in their DNA to govern. FG gets in to power every now and then when people get tired of FF.

FF will return to the  35%40%  election vote shortly enough mark my words.

Personally can see FF storming back in the next decade lean and mean again.

Are you on a wind-up?? There's so much wrong with that post...
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
Fianna Fáil when formed represented the "small guys" in the State........... the small farmer, agricultural labourer, the labourers, tradesmen, urban industrial class etc. Fine Gael were the merchant princes, big farmers, Clongowes boys, Castle Catholics ............all with  ingrained utter contempt for the not so well off here in Ireland.

As the losing side in the Civil War it got a devoted loyalty from its supporters which by and large has not gone away despite the mess they made in the last 10/15 years.

Fine Gael can sneer away but they just don't have it in their DNA to govern. FG gets in to power every now and then when people get tired of FF.

FF will return to the  35%40%  election vote shortly enough mark my words.

Personally can see FF storming back in the next decade lean and mean again.

Are you on a wind-up?? There's so much wrong with that post...

It's very true till the last 2 lines and they're just opinions/predictions which will be proved/disproved in time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 02:26:37 PM
Fianna Fáil SHAFTED the "small guys" in the State........... the small farmer, agricultural labourer, the labourers, tradesmen, urban industrial class etc. They condemned the country to 20+ years of economic nihilism.

They told everyone in 2007 that if any other party came to power the economy would suffer.   

This June 2011 letter to the Irish Times says what needs to be said very succinctly

•    Madam, –  In reference to all of the eulogies for Brian Lenihan, let’s not forget his legacy. It is as follows: he has left a once proud nation on its knees. The crony system of Irish politics allowed him to assume responsibilities for which he was not capable.The nation must now live with the consequences. – Yours, etc,
FRANK MONAGHAN,
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on February 18, 2013, 02:45:59 PM
Fianna Fáil SHAFTED the "small guys" in the State........... the small farmer, agricultural labourer, the labourers, tradesmen, urban industrial class etc. They condemned the country to 20+ years of economic nihilism.

They told everyone in 2007 that if any other party came to power the economy would suffer.   

This June 2011 letter to the Irish Times says what needs to be said very succinctly

•    Madam, –  In reference to all of the eulogies for Brian Lenihan, let’s not forget his legacy. It is as follows: he has left a once proud nation on its knees. The crony system of Irish politics allowed him to assume responsibilities for which he was not capable.The nation must now live with the consequences. – Yours, etc,
FRANK MONAGHAN,

The move away from the "small man" to whomever would bank-roll them and damn the "small man" is reminiscent of another Republican party post 1948 and their abandonment of the "mom and pop" business class they purported to represent.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 03:12:08 PM
The last FF government was a car crash


2008
7 May: Brian Cowen is elected prime minister.
Sept 25: Ireland is the first eurozone country to go into recession after its property bubble bursts.
Sept 30: Following the collapse of US investment bank Lehman Brothers, Ireland approves a guarantee covering €400bn (£341bn) of liabilities at six Irish-owned banks.
Dec 21: Ireland injects €5.5bn (£4.7bn) into its three main banks, taking Anglo Irish Bank under government control.
2009
March 30: Credit ratings agency Standard and Poor downgrades Ireland's rating from AAA to AA+.
April 8: Fitch, another ratings agency, downgrades Ireland to AA+. Finance minister Brian Lenihan unveils €10.6 bn (£9bn) spending cuts for 2010-2011 in an emergency budget.
2010
Aug 25: Standard and Poor's cuts Ireland's long-term credit rating by one notch to AA-.
Sept 30: Ireland discloses a worst-case price tag of more than €50bn (£43bn) for bailing out its banks.
Oct 6: Fitch cuts Ireland's credit rating to A+ from AA-.
Nov 22: Eurozone finance ministers and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) begin working out details of rescue package for Ireland's banking sector.
Nov 24: Ireland unveils a €15bn (£13bn) four-year austerity plan. It includes thousands of public sector job cuts, VAT rises and cuts in social welfare spending.
Nov 28: The EU approves an €85bn rescue package for Ireland.
Dec 7: Ireland sets out its toughest ever budget on record, including €6bn in tax rises and spending cuts.
Dec 9: Fitch becomes the first credit agency to strip Ireland of its A rating, slashing it by three notches to BBB+.
Dec 15: Parliament approves the EU/IMF bailout package.
Dec 17: Moody's cuts Ireland's credit rating to BAA1, with a negative outlook.
2011
Jan 13: Cowen attempts a cabinet reshuffle but speculation mounts over a leadership challenge.
In a parliamentary party meeting, he tells TDs and senators he will consult with them over the next 48 hours to assess if he should stay on.
Jan 16: Cowen defends his position, claiming he has the support of the majority of the party.
Rebel TD Micheal Martin resigns as foreign affairs minister and calls on the taoiseach to step aside.
Jan 17: Ministers and TDs spend the day briefing for or against the taoiseach, who appears to have a slim majority wanting him to stay.
Jan 18: Cowen survives the self-imposed vote of confidence in his leadership.
Jan 19: Mary Harney announces her resignation at 9pm, followed by three other ministers at 11pm – Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey and Tony Killeen.
Jan 20: 07.00: Green leader John Gormley rings Cowen after 7am and says it is a serious matter and calls for a meeting.
08.30: The two sides hold the first of a series of meetings to discuss the affair. The Greens are adamant they warned they would not support any new appointments.
09.30: Batt O'Keeffe, "best friend" of the taoiseach, becomes the fifth cabinet casualty when his resignation is leaked.
11.00: The Dail is suspended amid accusations that Cowen is pulling a political stunt in filling cabinet posts with election candidates.
13.30: The taoiseach outlines in the Dail the reassignment of ministries among sitting cabinet members and the election date of 11 March.
16.45: The Greens detail their complete lack of knowledge about resignations from the cabinet and their attempts to stop the posts being filled.
Jan 21: Former finance minister Ray McSharry publicly talks of his dismay with the week-long turmoil.
Junior minister Conor Lenihan likens the unprecedented events to "car crash politics".
Cowen denies he should stand down.

Jan 22: 1400: Cowen announces he will remain as head of government but quit as the Fianna Fáil leader.

Feb 25 :  FF wins 20 seats FFS . Many constituences return 0  FFers. Brian Lenihan is the only FF TD in Dublin.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rosnarun on February 18, 2013, 03:12:29 PM
When ever any thing goes wrong people always blame theor own favorite bug bear,
cronyism,Planing corruption,bailing the banks  may be wrong but it did not cause the bubble or the crash
 The opposition hounded fianna fail for their high tax rates .
The umemployed hounded the last Goverment For  low SW rates
the public servants hounded the Governmant and theathen strikes for more pay,
every one wanted more money spent on the health service ,

these are the things that caused the Crash because right or wrong  we could not afford them.
 .
it 2 greatest steps by FF were the SSIA and the Pension reserve fund  which were hugly divided by the opposition and the intellctual's but they help keep a lid on the bubble while doing much good and in the case of the Pension reserve it still is.
in retro spect Brian and bertie will be shown to have done a lot more right than wrong

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 03:14:31 PM
Diarmuid Ferriter knows FF better than most people. It will be very hard for the party to come back as a serious power after what it did .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0326/1224313893518.html

Another problem was that Fianna Fáil was simply in power for far too long and the longer it held office and dispensed patronage the more perverted the definition of loyalty became, in order to justify cover-ups and lies. Lightweights were rewarded and promoted well beyond their capabilities, which resulted in a considerable devaluation of politics and the status of public office. Those who called for accountability within this culture experienced fear, menace and intimidation.
As we edge towards the centenary of the events that comprised the revolution of the early 20th century, we face a stark conclusion: this is a State bereft of meaningful sovereignty due to its bankruptcy and a State whose governing culture has been exposed as rotten.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0301/1224291075967.html

Fianna Fáil’s vote collapsed because it managed to alienate all sections of Irish society, beyond a hard core of loyalists. Almost all its candidates witnessed anger on the canvass because so many people are experiencing fear and uncertainty about issues that historically have caused much pain to the Irish, and which they hoped during the boom had been consigned to history – mass unemployment, emigration, dispossession and loss of control of national destiny.

That Fianna Fáil has always made control of that destiny an essential part of its rhetoric and appeal makes the magnitude of its defeat particularly notable, but its critics can argue with much justification that its self-serving pragmatism, another essential part of its identity, finally caught up with it. As the UCD historian Desmond Williams once observed, the party for many years was able effectively to manipulate voters by issuing “firm statements followed by intricate qualifications”.
The firm statements emanating from the party during the last Dáil about a viable survival plan, not involving outside intervention, were the most hollow ever, and during that period the intricate qualifications – giving a blanket guarantee of bank liabilities and ultimately opening the door to the International Monetary Fund and the European Union, effectively resulted in a loss of sovereignty.

These developments were perceived as amounting to the abandonment by the party of one of its core commitments at its foundation in 1926 – “to make the resources and wealth of Ireland subservient to the needs and welfare of the people of Ireland”.

The challenge of making Fianna Fáil relevant again, particularly as it will be sharing the opposition benches with others who claim to be much more devoted to egalitarianism and republicanism than it, is considera
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 03:26:45 PM
in retro spect Brian and bertie will be shown to have done a lot more right than wrong

Ahhh for f*** sake - go and start a Comedy thread as that's a very good joke you've come up with.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 04:04:53 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2013, 04:15:51 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.


Giving the people what they want is not good governance.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 04:18:48 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.


Giving the people what they want is not good governance.
Good governance means you become the opposition at the next election!

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hound on February 18, 2013, 04:20:49 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.


Giving the people what they want is not good governance.
But its how you get votes. Especially when the opposition are screaming at you to spend even more.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: rosnarun on February 18, 2013, 04:30:01 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.

but now that FG/LAB realize that FF were doing what needed to be done and have broken all their election Promises / tthe electoraet are say they have no mandate to do this . this not what we voted for.
you cant have it both ways

Giving the people what they want is not good governance.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mylestheslasher on February 18, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
I see the 25% have re-surfaced on this thread after being in hiding for the past couple of years. I'm sorry, anyone who votes for FF is an idiot with the mind of a goldfish.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 18, 2013, 04:51:12 PM
I see the 25% have re-surfaced on this thread after being in hiding for the past couple of years. I'm sorry, anyone who votes for FF is an idiot with the mind of a goldfish.

I'd hate to see what you'd say if you weren't feeling sorry ;)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 04:58:32 PM
Fianna Fail are the best future option.
They've gotten rid of the dead wood and have learned a few harsh lessons to keep them honest for a few years.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 05:01:05 PM
Fianna Fail are the best future option.
They've gotten rid of the dead wood and have learned a few harsh lessons to keep them honest for a few years.

Ahhh lads this comedy thing is going too far
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: trileacman on February 18, 2013, 05:04:37 PM
I see the 25% have re-surfaced on this thread after being in hiding for the past couple of years. I'm sorry, anyone who votes for FF is an idiot with the mind of a goldfish.

And who do you vote for?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 05:15:59 PM
Fianna Fail are the best future option.
They've gotten rid of the dead wood and have learned a few harsh lessons to keep them honest for a few years.
I presume that is a Tipp view but not every county would have a Michael Lowry topping the poll.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 05:17:58 PM
All Bertie and Cowen did was give the people what they wanted.
The public wanted low taxes, but heavy spending on services.
That's the great thing about democracy, you vote for it, you get it, you live with the consequences.


Giving the people what they want is not good governance.

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.- HL Mencken
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2013, 05:36:59 PM
FF lost their way. George Colley was honest, but ineffective, so they took C.J. who was dishonest and effective. The rot set in from there on.
Perhaps the can get back to their roots.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 05:39:35 PM
Fianna Fail are the best future option.
They've gotten rid of the dead wood and have learned a few harsh lessons to keep them honest for a few years.
I presume that is a Tipp view but not every county would have a Michael Lowry topping the poll.
Michael Lowry is a nobody these days.
He has outlived his usefulness in (North) Tipperary.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Premier Emperor on February 18, 2013, 05:40:01 PM
The bad eggs are long gone from Fianna Fail. Bertie, Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Padraig Flynn, Ivor Callely etc.

All the lame ducks retired or failed to get re-elected the last time. Dick Roche, Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, Mary O'Rourke, Martin Cullen, Bull O'Donoghue.

Getting rid of all them has left a much better party.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on February 18, 2013, 05:55:58 PM
The bad eggs are long gone from Fianna Fail. Bertie, Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Padraig Flynn, Ivor Callely etc.

All the lame ducks retired or failed to get re-elected the last time. Dick Roche, Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, Mary O'Rourke, Martin Cullen, Bull O'Donoghue.

Getting rid of all them has left a much better party.


And the crowd that are left either served with those people you mentioned, or they joined FF when those people were in office.
So that tells you a fair bit about their outlook and how they view politics.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 18, 2013, 06:29:44 PM
The bad eggs are long gone from Fianna Fail. Bertie, Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Padraig Flynn, Ivor Callely etc.

All the lame ducks retired or failed to get re-elected the last time. Dick Roche, Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, Mary O'Rourke, Martin Cullen, Bull O'Donoghue.

Getting rid of all them has left a much better party.

I can agree with this. There are none of them in Dublin and Dublin is far better off.

Now continue......
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 08:53:17 PM
The bad eggs are long gone from Fianna Fail. Bertie, Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Padraig Flynn, Ivor Callely etc.

All the lame ducks retired or failed to get re-elected the last time. Dick Roche, Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, Mary O'Rourke, Martin Cullen, Bull O'Donoghue.

Untrue - O'Dea, O Cuív, O Fearghail to name but 3 are still there
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Itchy on February 18, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
The bad eggs are long gone from Fianna Fail. Bertie, Haughey, Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, Beverly Cooper Flynn, Padraig Flynn, Ivor Callely etc.

All the lame ducks retired or failed to get re-elected the last time. Dick Roche, Dermot Ahern, Noel Dempsey, Mary O'Rourke, Martin Cullen, Bull O'Donoghue.

Untrue - O'Dea, O c*ív, O Fearghail to name but 3 are still there
Brendan Smith.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 18, 2013, 09:18:49 PM
We all know the alternative coalition is the Traitors (FF), the Thugs (SF) and a handfull of bought off loonytoons (the lefties, Jacky and the blueshirt reject). You might as well ask the fascists from the DUP to run and join the axis of Evil..
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 18, 2013, 09:21:48 PM
Fianna Fail are the the inheritors of Diarmait Mac Murchada. They sell their nation and their daughter to the highest bidder.

SCUM

They make the average Shinner look positvely saint like.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2013, 09:30:01 PM
Go to bed and sleep it off Mayoghu.
not a good idea to be posting after whatever you've imbibed. :-*
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2013, 10:13:00 PM
FF should have been reversed into IBRC and then put through the NAMA mincer. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on February 24, 2013, 09:31:48 PM
i see a new party forming 'fianna gael' this should be interesting since both of them are poison ivy for whatever coalition partner they enter government with. enda kenny is the best canvasser fianna fail have
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 24, 2013, 09:39:29 PM
i see a new party forming 'fianna gael' this should be interesting since both of them are poison ivy for whatever coalition partner they enter government with. enda kenny is the best canvasser fianna fail have

Fine Gael will hopefully not be returned to power and the same goes for Labour. However mid-term austerity polls are probably best taken with a grain of salt. The real tragedy is that Fianna Fáil are seen as the only credible alternative. I thought people would vote for nut-job independents before they would vote FF but it seems I was wrong.

SF's inability to even pretend to want to appeal to the vast majority of those in the 26 has knocked them backwards.

It really leaves us with a pathetic choice next time. Dumb party, dumber parties or individual dumbos. Depressing.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Itchy on February 24, 2013, 11:03:26 PM
So which party would you like to see run the next government Muppet. FF, FG and Labour are out going by recent posts. SF seem to be your least favourite. That leaves the Greens, Workers Party, Christian Solidarity, united left alliance and independents. Maybe time to head to Australia?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on February 24, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
When the whole political system is corrupt and malfunctioning it matters little who is in government
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: midLouth on February 24, 2013, 11:15:44 PM
i see a new party forming 'fianna gael' this should be interesting since both of them are poison ivy for whatever coalition partner they enter government with. enda kenny is the best canvasser fianna fail have

Fine Gael will hopefully not be returned to power and the same goes for Labour. However mid-term austerity polls are probably best taken with a grain of salt. The real tragedy is that Fianna Fáil are seen as the only credible alternative. I thought people would vote for nut-job independents before they would vote FF but it seems I was wrong.

SF's inability to even pretend to want to appeal to the vast majority of those in the 26 has knocked them backwards.

It really leaves us with a pathetic choice next time. Dumb party, dumber parties or individual dumbos. Depressing.

It's really sad at a time when we need the best people possible in those positions to actually lead and make a difference but the political system we have is a joke. Not sure who I can stomach voting for in the next election, person or party.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:25:30 AM
i see a new party forming 'fianna gael' this should be interesting since both of them are poison ivy for whatever coalition partner they enter government with. enda kenny is the best canvasser fianna fail have

Fine Gael will hopefully not be returned to power and the same goes for Labour. However mid-term austerity polls are probably best taken with a grain of salt. The real tragedy is that Fianna Fáil are seen as the only credible alternative. I thought people would vote for nut-job independents before they would vote FF but it seems I was wrong.

SF's inability to even pretend to want to appeal to the vast majority of those in the 26 has knocked them backwards.

It really leaves us with a pathetic choice next time. Dumb party, dumber parties or individual dumbos. Depressing.

It's really sad at a time when we need the best people possible in those positions to actually lead and make a difference but the political system we have is a joke. Not sure who I can stomach voting for in the next election, person or party.

Agree with this and Pangurban.

It has become pathetic.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 25, 2013, 11:08:50 AM
It's really sad at a time when we need the best people possible in those positions to actually lead and make a difference but the political system we have is a joke. Not sure who I can stomach voting for in the next election, person or party.

Perhaps anyone with an ounce of cop-on would stay away from the mess that is running the country. I think it's my civic duty to vote, but all the main parties (and quite a few of the minor one) are toxic. It's depressing.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on February 25, 2013, 11:42:55 AM
Well the political process is based (at present) on the principles of patronage - our politicians do not appear to be convinced that they (really) have a mandate to act in the public interest.  That is, if they do so (work for the common good) successfully, it doesn't follow that they will increase their chances of re-election - I don't know but there may be evidence to show that it has a negative effect; there's certainly anecdotal evidence.  On the other hand, if they spend their elected term working (successfully) to favour their constituents in any way, shape or form to 'beat the system' then it's a running certainty that they will be re-elected. 

Is that their fault or our fault - I think we the electorate are to blame, in the main? 

How can we change it? - certainly not by moving to another country.  Personally the current system is an FF construct; by refusing to ever vote FF again sends a strong message.  If the FF replacements do no better, in terms of the patronage principle anyway, then stop voting for them.  There's no overnight remedy for this - and there shouldn't be - but the vote is a mighty weapon.  We just need to learn how to use it again.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: midLouth on February 25, 2013, 12:49:48 PM
It's really sad at a time when we need the best people possible in those positions to actually lead and make a difference but the political system we have is a joke. Not sure who I can stomach voting for in the next election, person or party.

Perhaps anyone with an ounce of cop-on would stay away from the mess that is running the country. I think it's my civic duty to vote, but all the main parties (and quite a few of the minor one) are toxic. It's depressing.

I agree re the voting, I'll be in the polling stations on polling day, even if it is just to spoil my vote (I probably won't).

Well the political process is based (at present) on the principles of patronage - our politicians do not appear to be convinced that they (really) have a mandate to act in the public interest.  That is, if they do so (work for the common good) successfully, it doesn't follow that they will increase their chances of re-election - I don't know but there may be evidence to show that it has a negative effect; there's certainly anecdotal evidence.  On the other hand, if they spend their elected term working (successfully) to favour their constituents in any way, shape or form to 'beat the system' then it's a running certainty that they will be re-elected. 

Is that their fault or our fault - I think we the electorate are to blame, in the main? 

How can we change it? - certainly not by moving to another country.  Personally the current system is an FF construct; by refusing to ever vote FF again sends a strong message.  If the FF replacements do no better, in terms of the patronage principle anyway, then stop voting for them.  There's no overnight remedy for this - and there shouldn't be - but the vote is a mighty weapon.  We just need to learn how to use it again.

It is just so hard to fathom that you can be hired for a job on a particular mandate, get the job and then it'll be 4 years before you are held accountable for what you did in the job, which regardless you'll have been highly rewarded, treated like royalty and be able to saunter off with a sizable pension. 

While I don't want FF back in power guys like Varadkar making comments like below really want me to punish his party as much as FF. 

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/varadkar-politicians-have-taken-their-share-of-cuts-and-then-some-585975.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 25, 2013, 01:06:15 PM
I agree re the voting, I'll be in the polling stations on polling day, even if it is just to spoil my vote (I probably won't).

Are you sure you won't be voting FF? Vote early and vote often.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on February 25, 2013, 02:40:24 PM
Quote
Varadkar

While he might be an obnoxious dose, he didn't ruin the country (yet) - FF did.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on February 25, 2013, 04:22:59 PM
Quote
Is that their fault or our fault - I think we the electorate are to blame, in the main? 

How can we change it? - certainly not by moving to another country.  Personally the current system is an FF construct; by refusing to ever vote FF again sends a strong message.  If the FF replacements do no better, in terms of the patronage principle anyway, then stop voting for them.  There's no overnight remedy for this - and there shouldn't be - but the vote is a mighty weapon.  We just need to learn how to use it again.

+1
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 25, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
I think the only solution is to vote for every independent crank running. It could lead to short-term chaos but it would send a message to the organised parties that they must stop simply representing their own agendas. The Independents would never form a lasting administration and the message might not need to last for long.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: midLouth on February 25, 2013, 05:51:49 PM
Quote
Varadkar

While he might be an obnoxious dose, he didn't ruin the country (yet) - FF did.

I'm not interested in who ruined the country any more, I am more interested on having a govt that has the people's interests at the fore most. I don't think Varadkar does, either that or he is ignorant.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on February 25, 2013, 07:39:56 PM
Quote
Varadkar

While he might be an obnoxious dose, he didn't ruin the country (yet) - FF did.

I'm not interested in who ruined the country any more, I am more interested on having a govt that has the people's interests at the fore most. I don't think Varadkar does, either that or he is ignorant.
if adams was gone and someone like pearse or peadar tobin was leading sinn fein would it help? purely speculative question
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: midLouth on February 25, 2013, 09:38:38 PM
Quote
Varadkar

While he might be an obnoxious dose, he didn't ruin the country (yet) - FF did.

I'm not interested in who ruined the country any more, I am more interested on having a govt that has the people's interests at the fore most. I don't think Varadkar does, either that or he is ignorant.
if adams was gone and someone like pearse or peadar tobin was leading sinn fein would it help? purely speculative question

SF are not a viable option imo, while it is good to have someone questioning the motives of the govt I could never see SF running the country.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: All of a Sludden on February 25, 2013, 10:10:57 PM
Quote
Varadkar

While he might be an obnoxious dose, he didn't ruin the country (yet) - FF did.

I'm not interested in who ruined the country any more, I am more interested on having a govt that has the people's interests at the fore most. I don't think Varadkar does, either that or he is ignorant.
if adams was gone and someone like pearse or peadar tobin was leading sinn fein would it help? purely speculative question

SF are not a viable option imo, while it is good to have someone questioning the motives of the govt I could never see SF running the country.

Getting rid of Adams would be a big help to Sinn Fein, he has little credibility IMO, but the same can be said for most of the old guard.

Doherty would be my choice, he is a very astute politican, doesn't have the baggage associated with the current leadership and is one of the few members of the Dail with any credibility.
He is one of the few politicians that I would vote for.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on February 26, 2013, 03:18:34 AM
Hard to believe that ~ 25% of people would vote for FF after what has happened over the past 10 years - that's the problem with democracy though, every gombeen has a vote!!! I would advocate that if you don't want to vote for the alternatives, then you go in and spoil your vote - same with the people who don't vote at all - if say 40% of the votes cast were spoiled, it would send it pretty powerful message to the political system that the people want change.

The problem with any democratic system is that you want to maintain accountability but eliminate parochialism which is an almost impossible balance to achieve. I haven't thought this through fully but what about a system where you vote for local "councillors" in the general election - these remain as local politicians but have more power than existing councils (which are scrapped as they currently exist). Each party (independent councillors would have to pool together to form some sort of alliance / party) then elect either a government or perhaps just ministers (not from the body of elected councillors) who then govern at a national level. Obviously one major problem with this is that your cabinet has not been directly elected - on the other hand, it means that they should be capable of acting in the best interests of the country rather than their own constituency.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 26, 2013, 09:32:17 AM
The problem with any democratic system is that you want to maintain accountability but eliminate parochialism which is an almost impossible balance to achieve. I haven't thought this through fully but what about a system where you vote for local "councillors" in the general election - these remain as local politicians but have more power than existing councils (which are scrapped as they currently exist). Each party (independent councillors would have to pool together to form some sort of alliance / party) then elect either a government or perhaps just ministers (not from the body of elected councillors) who then govern at a national level. Obviously one major problem with this is that your cabinet has not been directly elected - on the other hand, it means that they should be capable of acting in the best interests of the country rather than their own constituency.

The political systems in Britain and the United States both started out predicated on voting directly for local worthies who would then select impartial people to run the country in the best interests of everyone. But it wasn't long in either case before people grouped together around the big issue of the day - attitudes towards the monarchy in Britain (Tories v Whigs), attitudes towards elites in America (Federalists v Democratic Republicans). You can't seal people away from the ultimate decision makers even if you wanted to.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: supersarsfields on February 26, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-02-25/italy-election-silvio-berlusconi-pier-luigi-bersani/
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 26, 2013, 01:32:39 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-02-25/italy-election-silvio-berlusconi-pier-luigi-bersani/

Please let him run!


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AQMP on February 26, 2013, 01:46:34 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-02-25/italy-election-silvio-berlusconi-pier-luigi-bersani/

Not only in Italy.  John O'Farrell is standing for Labour in Eastleigh (Chris Huhne's former seat).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on February 26, 2013, 02:19:35 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-02-25/italy-election-silvio-berlusconi-pier-luigi-bersani/

Please let him run!




I'd vote for Dylan Moran, but we'd end up with Richie Kavanagh. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on February 26, 2013, 02:43:20 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian.

It'd be a step up from clowns.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on February 26, 2013, 02:50:29 PM
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. /

Brian Lenihan kept telling us during 2009 that "the corner had been turned"
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Denn Forever on February 26, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
Quote
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

The Mrs Brown's Boys series is over so Brendan O'Carroll has plenty of time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: deiseach on February 26, 2013, 03:59:42 PM
Quote
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

The Mrs Brown's Boys series is over so Brendan O'Carroll has plenty of time.

It'd be about the first funny thing he ever did.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on February 26, 2013, 05:08:21 PM
Quote
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

The Mrs Brown's Boys series is over so Brendan O'Carroll has plenty of time.

Now I am cooling on the idea.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2013, 05:45:28 PM
Quote
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

The Mrs Brown's Boys series is over so Brendan O'Carroll has plenty of time.

Now I am cooling on the idea.
Ardal O Hanlon is Rory O'Hanlon's son (_Rory was FF TD Cavan Monaghan and Ministher) . I wonder if Ardal would be FF but he's a good comedian and would have the smarts.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on February 27, 2013, 09:02:30 PM
Quote
We should follow Italy's lead and vote in a comedian. Sure could it be any worth!!

The Mrs Brown's Boys series is over so Brendan O'Carroll has plenty of time.

Now I am cooling on the idea.
Ardal O Hanlon is Rory O'Hanlon's son (_Rory was FF TD Cavan Monaghan and Ministher) . I wonder if Ardal would be FF but he's a good comedian and would have the smarts.
is this the same rory o hanlon who was stoned off the new monaghan bypass following the closure of monaghan hospital.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on March 18, 2013, 11:09:21 AM
New Millward Brown poll for the Sindo:

Labour 9% -2%
 
Fine Gael 25% +1%
 
Fianna Fail 29% +6%
 
Sinn Fein 20% -1%
 
Others 17% -5%
 
Don’t know -32%
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on March 18, 2013, 02:49:17 PM
New Millward Brown poll for the Sindo:

Labour 9% -2%
 
Fine Gael 25% +1%
 
Fianna Fail 29% +6%
 
Sinn Fein 20% -1%
 
Others 17% -5%
 
Don’t know -32%

By the time the next election comes I expect the Sindo will publish the following results:

FG - 0%
Lab - 0%
FF - 103%
SF - you must be joking
Udders - milking it long enough

(NB: 3% margin of error)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on March 18, 2013, 02:54:52 PM
The thing is, it's not a million miles away from other polling results.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on March 22, 2013, 03:49:39 PM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Denn Forever on March 22, 2013, 04:22:25 PM
Of course they do.  The War for Independence was a bloody time.  http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/chilling-tape-reveals-td-laughed-about-executing-spies-29138393.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
War is a nasty "business" and hopefully we won't ever see the likes or the need for that kind of thing in Ireland any more.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on March 23, 2013, 08:27:22 PM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
War is a nasty "business" and hopefully we won't ever see the likes or the need for that kind of thing in Ireland any more.

Yes the need for That kind of thing... emmm? and had you been there rossie you could have explained to those  "spies" how  that kind of thing was ok
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: All of a Sludden on March 23, 2013, 08:39:31 PM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
War is a nasty "business" and hopefully we won't ever see the likes or the need for that kind of thing in Ireland any more.

Yes the need for That kind of thing... emmm? and had you been there rossie you could have explained to those  "spies" how  that kind of thing was ok

Selective memory lawnseed? http://www.crossexaminer.co.uk/archives/4845
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2013, 10:08:46 PM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
War is a nasty "business" and hopefully we won't ever see the likes or the need for that kind of thing in Ireland any more.

Yes the need for That kind of thing... emmm? and had you been there rossie you could have explained to those  "spies" how  that kind of thing was ok
I doubt if they'd be very enamoured of my explanations somehow.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on March 24, 2013, 10:29:17 AM
the revelations that a former fianna fail td delighted and actively took part in the murder of dozens of ira "spies" now buried in a cork bog and actually murdered some of them infront of the gravediggers while they complained of being overworked comes as no surprise. but those murders dont count do they..
War is a nasty "business" and hopefully we won't ever see the likes or the need for that kind of thing in Ireland any more.

Yes sludsie you make my point for me. Not really any value in the likes of micky martin trying to score points off sinn fein when there's a mass grave in his own county filled by a fianna fail td  who couldn't stop laughing while he murdered his fellow irishmen. True two wrongs etc.. no party in the dail is clean

Yes the need for That kind of thing... emmm? and had you been there rossie you could have explained to those  "spies" how  that kind of thing was ok

Selective memory lawnseed? http://www.crossexaminer.co.uk/archives/4845
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Declan on March 27, 2013, 01:40:37 PM
Another reason to dislike Joe ;) ;)

Joe sheridan ‏@Squarecut84
Voting out the way @SenThomasByrne no1 perfect candidate for the position and also the most experienced best of luck.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: magpie seanie on March 27, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
Another reason to dislike Joe ;) ;)

Joe sheridan ‏@Squarecut84
Voting out the way @SenThomasByrne no1 perfect candidate for the position and also the most experienced best of luck.


I knew Thomas one time a few years back. That description of him makes me think Joe has a case of mistaken identity.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 10:33:11 PM
topping the polls again.. they went out on a huge protest vote and now kenny and co are putting it on a plate
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on April 14, 2013, 10:45:21 PM
topping the polls again.. they went out on a huge protest vote and now kenny and co are putting it on a plate
And yet FF seem to be the only party capable of taking it!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on April 14, 2013, 11:10:41 PM
topping the polls again.. they went out on a huge protest vote and now kenny and co are putting it on a plate
And yet FF seem to be the only party capable of taking it!

yep but can the irish electorate take it.. bend over paddy
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: NetNitrate on April 15, 2013, 02:58:25 AM
People forget that a large percentage of country, nearly half, are certified Fianna Fáil families. People still say "they are Fianna Fáil" or "that's a Fianna Fáil house" or a Fine Gael Squireen  farmer down the country would term them "shtone mad Fianna Fail". It's naive in the extreme to think that could disappear completely after one poor election. Add to that the fact that media like RTE and Sunday Indo are literally infested with FF propagandists thus bringing the resurrection that bit nearer. History will then be rewritten of the Glory Celtic Tiger years under FF, the austerity brought by Labour and FG, and the triumphant return of the Soldiers of Destiny to lead Oirland to be a nation once again.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2013, 06:28:10 AM
Morgan Kelly, the economist who was ridiculed in 2008 for predicting the collapse in house prices , thought that the depth and intensity of the crisis would destroy the credibility of all the parties. None of them can tell the voters that their policies will bring back the good old days. Deleveraging has a long way to go. I think the Kilkenny footballers have more integrity than Fianna Fail. They are honest about what they can do, they don't care what people think and they know they aren't going to to change anything.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 12:43:59 PM
the conundrum.
vote for useless feckers or in total apathy, dont vote at all - and you cant whinge then.

its turning int the same situation at the north, where you are wasting your time with voting at all - as the two main parties are powerless and a vote for the rest is a spoiled/wasted vote (as they will never get power and are rubbish even if they do).

we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.
fg are currently showing that they just want to stay still and hope it all goes away (which it will eventually) and the kind of boom th country experienced would obv never have happened under their watch. they are inept.

if our politicians were not as greedy, corrupt or had a bit more integrity to do the right thing on behalf of the people instead of themselves, we would be fine.
I cannot see the current systems govenence that is in place in this country changing this greedy mindset and its every man for himself here to be honest.
the market will rectify itself and over half the population will be fine. the other half will continue to suffer, scrape by and emigrate.

id consider votin for ff again as they may be cnuts, but at least they will agitate change and thus growth.
sitting on your erse wittering off rhetoric like fg wont get us anywhere.
voting for ff is not a palatable choice, but the other parties have no clout and the issue is the here and now.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: NetNitrate on April 15, 2013, 01:41:30 PM


we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.

That's very debatable. In fact, it was the Rainbow Gov of FG, Lab and DL that brought in the 12.5% corporate tax (specifically Ruari Quinn, Pat Rabbitte and Richard Bruton) that was a primary driver. The surge that came afterwards led by FF was a false economy driven by an obscene flow of easy credit and an out of control property bubble. We'll be paying back that for a long, long time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 01:52:29 PM


we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.

That's very debatable. In fact, it was the Rainbow Gov of FG, Lab and DL that brought in the 12.5% corporate tax (specifically Ruari Quinn, Pat Rabbitte and Richard Bruton) that was a primary driver. The surge that came afterwards led by FF was a false economy driven by an obscene flow of easy credit and an out of control property bubble. We'll be paying back that for a long, long time.
I was more thinking of the IFSC and innovations that the likes of business men like Dermot Desmond kicked off and inspired, with the backing of the then ff govenment.
the low corp tax rate is excellent for this country, but wouldnt have been in play without the structures and innovations that these business men and visionaries in university research began. ff did not creat them, but allowed the grants, finances , planning behind them etc- so dont think I am saying that ff directly created these !
still imo way more than the stiffled fg contribution to modern day business success
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2013, 03:14:17 PM
the conundrum.
vote for useless feckers or in total apathy, dont vote at all - and you cant whinge then.

its turning int the same situation at the north, where you are wasting your time with voting at all - as the two main parties are powerless and a vote for the rest is a spoiled/wasted vote (as they will never get power and are rubbish even if they do).

we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.
fg are currently showing that they just want to stay still and hope it all goes away (which it will eventually) and the kind of boom th country experienced would obv never have happened under their watch. they are inept.

if our politicians were not as greedy, corrupt or had a bit more integrity to do the right thing on behalf of the people instead of themselves, we would be fine.
I cannot see the current systems govenence that is in place in this country changing this greedy mindset and its every man for himself here to be honest.
the market will rectify itself and over half the population will be fine. the other half will continue to suffer, scrape by and emigrate.

id consider votin for ff again as they may be cnuts, but at least they will agitate change and thus growth.
sitting on your erse wittering off rhetoric like fg wont get us anywhere.
voting for ff is not a palatable choice, but the other parties have no clout and the issue is the here and now.
id consider votin for ff again as they may be cnuts, but at least they will agitate change and thus growth.

What leverage would they have? they'll promise the world to nurses and teachers as per usual . Nobody seems to want to
accept what is going on. Is ar scath  a cheile a mairimid. 
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 04:23:08 PM
id consider votin for ff again as they may be cnuts, but at least they will agitate change and thus growth.

What leverage would they have? they'll promise the world to nurses and teachers as per usual . Nobody seems to want to
accept what is going on. Is ar scath  a cheile a mairimid.

what growth would we be expecting out of teachers or nurses ?

to be fair to them and all of the unionised/public sector workforce , they will continue on in the roles they have after pay agreement has been reached as they dont have much of a bargaining chip save for industrial action which if pushed too far will cause reworking of national pay legislation that will cause greater wage cute to these workers- as whether they accept it or not, they are well paid (overpaid in some civil service jobs) already.
their alternative is to jump into the cut and thrust of the private secttor, for less pay and increases based on performance etc.

the further growth will come from our currently well performing service/finance/techno sectors as well as exports.

Ff can easily complement these with reducing the oppressive poll tax and other levies that if introduced as promised in full will stiffle growth , local economy and affect the country and its output/performance.
not saying ff will do so - they could continue to fcuk up like fg/labour are doing - but imo, it is an open goal.

even without re-negotiating the euro deal, we have a further 7 years to pay it off, so use this bit of money to lessen the pressue locally.

eu cant do that much to us really. we are only being penalised for retaining our low corporation tax.

we should lower it even further for new businesses - to encourage more money/jobs/companies comng in....!


Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: NetNitrate on April 15, 2013, 04:56:59 PM


we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.

That's very debatable. In fact, it was the Rainbow Gov of FG, Lab and DL that brought in the 12.5% corporate tax (specifically Ruari Quinn, Pat Rabbitte and Richard Bruton) that was a primary driver. The surge that came afterwards led by FF was a false economy driven by an obscene flow of easy credit and an out of control property bubble. We'll be paying back that for a long, long time.
I was more thinking of the IFSC and innovations that the likes of business men like Dermot Desmond kicked off and inspired, with the backing of the then ff govenment.


That could also be cited as an example of everything that was wrong with the country under FF. It was an economic philosophy literally based on "the haves and the have Yachts... repaired".
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on April 15, 2013, 05:09:16 PM


we dont have any choice here. ff and fg are brutal. imo fg are worse.
while ff brought the country down through their greed and desire to protect their own interests and cronies in the anglo irish bank, they were the conduits in creating and promoting this industry and surge in the country in the first place.

That's very debatable. In fact, it was the Rainbow Gov of FG, Lab and DL that brought in the 12.5% corporate tax (specifically Ruari Quinn, Pat Rabbitte and Richard Bruton) that was a primary driver. The surge that came afterwards led by FF was a false economy driven by an obscene flow of easy credit and an out of control property bubble. We'll be paying back that for a long, long time.
I was more thinking of the IFSC and innovations that the likes of business men like Dermot Desmond kicked off and inspired, with the backing of the then ff govenment.


That could also be cited as an example of everything that was wrong with the country under FF. It was an economic philosophy literally based on "the haves and the have Yachts... repaired".
wouldnt completely agree there, certainly the cronyism which eventually sunk ff was there, but the selection of beneficial programmes to support job creation, business expanding undertakings made the difference to the country today.
fg have a record of not supporting initiatives like this - eg look at them currently.

there is no guarantee that ff will rekindle ther prev positive ideals either should they get back in. i'd not back against them rekindling their negavtive activities!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on April 15, 2013, 05:58:51 PM
That could also be cited as an example of everything that was wrong with the country under FF. It was an economic philosophy literally based on "the haves and the have Yachts... repaired".

I like it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on April 29, 2013, 07:26:39 PM
Fianna Fail will no doubt have a sly smile as they look on at what's happening in Iceland - the parties blamed for their meltdown set to be back in power - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22320282

Is this people with short memories or a realisation that the opposition didn't have all the answers either?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 11:45:04 AM
Well, I don't know if Iceland has the Sinn Féin phenomenon - an opposition so lacking in credibility that even the perpetrators of the greatest economic collapse in its history are seen as the preferable option.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on April 30, 2013, 11:52:45 AM
Well, I don't know if Iceland has the Sinn Féin phenomenon - an opposition so lacking in credibility that even the perpetrators of the greatest economic collapse in its history are seen as the preferable option.

Or to paraphrase....an electorate with their heads so far up their own arse with self-righteousness, that they swallow every cliched soundbite about SF's economic literacy that the media trot out and yet willingly vote in droves for a party which bankrupted the place because, well, daddy/grandaddy have voted for them since the civil war.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2013, 11:58:02 AM
Well, I don't know if Iceland has the Sinn Féin phenomenon - an opposition so lacking in credibility that even the perpetrators of the greatest economic collapse in its history are seen as the preferable option.

Or to paraphrase....an electorate with their heads so far up their own arse with self-righteousness, that they swallow every cliched soundbite about SF's economic literacy that the media trot out and yet willingly vote in droves for a party which bankrupted the place because, well, daddy/grandaddy have voted for them since the civil war.

That is precisely how most of the electorate think SF sees them. It is incredible that anyone sees FF as better though. I would rather have a flock of scraggy sheep in Government.

Maybe it is time for a National Government or the US system whereby the President nominates and the Senate (Dáil) vets and approves non-politicians.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on April 30, 2013, 12:12:49 PM
I've been a proponent of that for a while muppet. Let's have a government led by a man who's elected by the whole country, but have a smaller Dail, made up of non party aligned TDs who vote according to their conscience on specific measures. No party whips, no opposition for the sake of it. Just a group of independants voting on measures which will hopefully benefit the country.

Of course, the drawback there is that populist measures, such as those introduced by the FF government back in the 90s may well get too much support. We've seen back then that very few people were saying stop when things were good, and most of those were not in the Dail. I'd hope that with a smaller Dail, and with no political parties, the best people would be leading the country, not a bunch of people who happen to be in the right party at the time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on April 30, 2013, 12:14:41 PM
Well, I don't know if Iceland has the Sinn Féin phenomenon - an opposition so lacking in credibility that even the perpetrators of the greatest economic collapse in its history are seen as the preferable option.

Or to paraphrase....an electorate with their heads so far up their own arse with self-righteousness, that they swallow every cliched soundbite about SF's economic literacy that the media trot out and yet willingly vote in droves for a party which bankrupted the place because, well, daddy/grandaddy have voted for them since the civil war.

I sympathise with the dilemma of people trying to make the choice between the economic policies of a gangster in a mohair suit, who will pauperise them for venal motives and an idiot in a hoodie who will do it for ideological ones. I couldn't vote for either, but I'm not surprised that many opt for the former, simply on the basis that at least his supporters are not insulting, abusing and name-calling them at the same time.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on May 02, 2013, 05:10:31 PM
Of course they do.  The War for Independence was a bloody time.  http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/chilling-tape-reveals-td-laughed-about-executing-spies-29138393.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/analysis/separating-fact-from-folklore-226559.html
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on May 13, 2013, 05:32:30 PM
Talk about hard work! Yesterday seems to have been the Fianna Fail church gate collection, at least it was here in Newport. To say business wasn't exactly brisk would be an understatement. In fairness to the poor auld divils at the biscuit tins, at least they are standing up for their beliefs in public. I can imagine some of the comments.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 13, 2013, 05:38:34 PM
Talk about hard work! Yesterday seems to have been the Fianna Fail church gate collection, at least it was here in Newport. To say business wasn't exactly brisk would be an understatement. In fairness to the poor auld divils at the biscuit tins, at least they are standing up for their beliefs in public. I can imagine some of the comments.

I was at a school open day attended by a few local TDs from different parties, including a Minister. Times have changed as in the past these lads would go out of their way to shake hands with anything with a pulse, or more importantly, a vote. They all kept a very low profile.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on May 13, 2013, 05:47:41 PM
Talk about hard work! Yesterday seems to have been the Fianna Fail church gate collection, at least it was here in Newport. To say business wasn't exactly brisk would be an understatement. In fairness to the poor auld divils at the biscuit tins, at least they are standing up for their beliefs in public. I can imagine some of the comments.

Sadly, (f the polls are to be believed) around one in four of these comments would probably have been "you've got my vote next time lads".

:-[
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on May 13, 2013, 05:52:10 PM
I must say it didn't look like that in my highly unscientific survey. From the time I got out of my car in the carpark to walking past the lads with the tins, I reckon 30 people were ahead of me. None donated.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 13, 2013, 08:37:33 PM
I must say it didn't look like that in my highly unscientific survey. From the time I got out of my car in the carpark to walking past the lads with the tins, I reckon 30 people were ahead of me. None donated.

Lots of €20 notes in the tin I passed by. Fair few €10 notes as well. My oul fella is staunch FF and gave his usual donation of €5.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 13, 2013, 08:41:03 PM
I must say it didn't look like that in my highly unscientific survey. From the time I got out of my car in the carpark to walking past the lads with the tins, I reckon 30 people were ahead of me. None donated.

Lots of €20 notes in the tin I passed by. Fair few €10 notes as well. My oul fella is staunch FF and gave his usual donation of €5.

No chance the Fianna Failures threw a few €uro notes in there to give the impression that they were not so toxic for the gullible to swallow.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on May 13, 2013, 09:42:29 PM
get them back.. ye lot deserve them. all pigs on the one sow
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: thejuice on May 13, 2013, 10:50:32 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-its-a-great-country-for-a-criminal-29260026.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-its-a-great-country-for-a-criminal-29260026.html)

'Ireland? It's a great country for a criminal'
Our lenient justice system continues to attract hordes of foreign criminals who rob and scam people and businesses of millions each year, writes Jim Cusack

This makes pretty grim reading and just another pillar of the Irish state that FF were happy to let crumble. Of course Shatter isn't doing much about it either. Irrespective of whether criminals are homegrown or foreign we are simply not apply appropriate justice and haven't been for some time. It's a mess and there is no one to fix it.

I think the turnout at the next elections may well be at an all time low.

It's little wonder when you read it that article that there is a general swing further to the right across Europe rightly or wrongly.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 13, 2013, 11:03:13 PM
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-its-a-great-country-for-a-criminal-29260026.html (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ireland-its-a-great-country-for-a-criminal-29260026.html)

'Ireland? It's a great country for a criminal'
Our lenient justice system continues to attract hordes of foreign criminals who rob and scam people and businesses of millions each year, writes Jim Cusack

This makes pretty grim reading and just another pillar of the Irish state that FF were happy to let crumble. Of course Shatter isn't doing much about it either. Irrespective of whether criminals are homegrown or foreign we are simply not apply appropriate justice and haven't been for some time. It's a mess and there is no one to fix it.

I think the turnout at the next elections may well be at an all time low.

It's little wonder when you read it that article that there is a general swing further to the right across Europe rightly or wrongly.

I am no fan of Shatter and in particular Michael McDowell.

However reform here will never happen without the full participation of the Law Society.

One would want to be careful what one might say about that organisation, in public, but it seems that the legislative ammunition in this country is lacking and will always be lacking. Witness how quickly you saw Bernie Madov, the Enron Executives etc. in orange jumpsuits and look at how many people we have in custody here for the financial scandals.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 14, 2013, 01:08:00 AM
get them back.. ye lot deserve them. all pigs on the one sow

No wonder people would vote for them, when you lot are the alternative opposition.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 03, 2013, 06:12:41 PM
Well Former Labour Party chairman Colm Keaveney has joined Fianna Fáil. What a Joke! He said the party has learned from mistakes of the past.  ;D

Former junior minister Michael Kitt must be delighted.

This is better than any gift Grub sketch!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2013, 06:32:34 PM
He's some fcukin hypocrite.  ???
He should fit in well with the FF clientele with the tanned face on him.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 03, 2013, 06:47:19 PM
He's some fcukin hypocrite.  ???
He should fit in well with the FF clientele with the tanned face on him.

True they should make a good marriage!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 03, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
And to think many had the impression that he was a man of principle when he moved against Labour...
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Itchy on December 03, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
What a twat. They deserve each other.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 03, 2013, 10:26:00 PM
The contradictions in his reasons for joining FF are absurd at the highest degree. There is a Smell of George Lee to this sort of story, where the man joining the party probably thinks he is bigger than the party!

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 03, 2013, 11:46:48 PM
He is quite tall.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 04, 2013, 11:39:08 AM
ffs all he has to do is take a few 'brownies', get a few single moms flats, and perhaps do a charity cycle run and his slagging off of fianna fail will be forgotten such is the memory of the irish electorate.

your typical irish voter doesn't give a fuk who's running the country as long as they get their little wants like planning, bin collections and medical cards. they wouldn't care if it was stalin.. ffs Charlie haughey bought them with a free bus pass and john bruton got sacked over tax on childrens shoes! how much would that have been? maybe a couple of quid a year? there is no reasoning with the irish voter.. no plan.. no thought. theyre just like kids a few sweets before the election and the porridge of the last 4 years is quickly forgotten..

this t**ser changing from labour (supposed to be a left wing socialist party) to the ultra conservative fianna fail.. in the six counties should be like Gregory Campbell joining sinn fein but in the 26 its not even a issue because there is nothing between the parties in terms of policy, ideology or values. political parties in the 26 base their policy on survival. Ireland has come out of recession(supposedly) by being run by Germany it would make more sense just to get in a few germans to run the place as a commercial entity and forget about democracy. just set a few ground rules regarding health and social services and subcontract the running of the place to foreigners. it'd be less expensive and less hassle
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2013, 02:38:54 PM
What a partitionist rant.
I presume you'll be voting to stay in the yUK when the referendum comes around. ::)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 04, 2013, 07:01:42 PM
What a partitionist rant.
I presume you'll be voting to stay in the yUK when the referendum comes around. ::)
when are yous gonna give us back our 26 counties
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2013, 08:23:45 PM
So there we have it Colm Keaveney has decided to go into opposition with Fianna Fail so he can have an influence on the ills that have come on our country! There he will have a bigger influence on things, right?

Wonder what the local Cumann in East Galway makes of this move? I'm sure there is an aspiring FF Councillor would be pissed off with this glory hunter jumping in in front of them. Michael F. Dolan (FF) got only 150 less first preferences votes than Keaveney, and that was under the duress FF had in the last election!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 09:32:14 AM
So there we have it Colm Keaveney has decided to go into opposition with Fianna Fail so he can have an influence on the ills that have come on our country! There he will have a bigger influence on things, right?

Wonder what the local Cumann in East Galway makes of this move? I'm sure there is an aspiring FF Councillor would be pissed off with this glory hunter jumping in in front of them. Michael F. Dolan (FF) got only 150 less first preferences votes than Keaveney, and that was under the duress FF had in the last election!
wouldn't it be a charity if dolan unseated him
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 05, 2013, 10:05:41 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 10:08:56 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

wait a minute.. your saying that your a ff voter..? why wont you vote for them again?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 05, 2013, 10:20:04 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

wait a minute.. your saying that your a ff voter..? why wont you vote for them again?

Because at one time I believed they were the most capable political party in ROI.  I dont believe that any more.
I am old that enough that for me never to vote for them again is reasonable period of exile.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 01:31:15 PM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

wait a minute.. your saying that your a ff voter..? why wont you vote for them again?

Because at one time I believed they were the most capable political party in ROI.  I dont believe that any more.
I am old that enough that for me never to vote for them again is reasonable period of exile.
what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 05, 2013, 01:54:06 PM

[/quote]
what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?
[/quote]

No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter. That transferred to my mother and on to me. In my own youth I remember CJH as a brilliant politician and economist and his involvement in the Arms Trial added a bit of a dangerous edge that was attractive to an immature youth with republican sympathies. I grew up at a time when civil war politics were still very raw (and that not so long ago) so if you supported one side you hated the other, well in my house anyway.
It all started to fall apart with the dismantling of CJH and Bertie and McCreevey just killed it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 02:31:26 PM

what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?
[/quote]

No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter. That transferred to my mother and on to me. In my own youth I remember CJH as a brilliant politician and economist and his involvement in the Arms Trial added a bit of a dangerous edge that was attractive to an immature youth with republican sympathies. I grew up at a time when civil war politics were still very raw (and that not so long ago) so if you supported one side you hated the other, well in my house anyway.
It all started to fall apart with the dismantling of CJH and Bertie and McCreevey just killed it.
[/quote]
you now realise the three names above are now lower than a snakes belly and that dev was probably a double agent working for the brits who put countless old ira men to their deaths and who stole money donated by americans for the irish public.
I would hope that you would realise that the combined efforts of ff fg and labour to corner/embarrass Gerry adams are based on a fear of sinn fein gaining in the polls and nothing to do with his niece or the mcconville family or the families of the two police killed in south Armagh. expect more and more of the same as the election nears and don't forget but for sinn fein's intervention Irelands current president would be a ff bagman.. that's how easily it is to cod the irish voter
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on December 05, 2013, 02:35:31 PM
Lawnseed, the only correct answer as far as you are concerned is that we will all vote Sinn Fein now and forever after. We get it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Tubberman on December 05, 2013, 02:44:33 PM

what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?

No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter. That transferred to my mother and on to me. In my own youth I remember CJH as a brilliant politician and economist and his involvement in the Arms Trial added a bit of a dangerous edge that was attractive to an immature youth with republican sympathies. I grew up at a time when civil war politics were still very raw (and that not so long ago) so if you supported one side you hated the other, well in my house anyway.
It all started to fall apart with the dismantling of CJH and Bertie and McCreevey just killed it.
[/quote]
you now realise the three names above are now lower than a snakes belly and that dev was probably a double agent working for the brits who put countless old ira men to their deaths and who stole money donated by americans for the irish public.
I would hope that you would realise that the combined efforts of ff fg and labour to corner/embarrass Gerry adams are based on a fear of sinn fein gaining in the polls and nothing to do with his niece or the mcconville family or the families of the two police killed in south Armagh. expect more and more of the same as the election nears and don't forget but for sinn fein's intervention Irelands current president would be a ff bagman.. that's how easily it is to cod the irish voter
[/quote]

Are you not Irish? Do you not vote?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 05, 2013, 02:56:20 PM
No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter.

But didn't you say, over on the other thread, that the people of the 26 counties "have no interest in violence"? Odd that you would have chosen your political party largely based on it's links to violence!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 05, 2013, 03:03:07 PM

what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?

No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter. That transferred to my mother and on to me. In my own youth I remember CJH as a brilliant politician and economist and his involvement in the Arms Trial added a bit of a dangerous edge that was attractive to an immature youth with republican sympathies. I grew up at a time when civil war politics were still very raw (and that not so long ago) so if you supported one side you hated the other, well in my house anyway.
It all started to fall apart with the dismantling of CJH and Bertie and McCreevey just killed it.
you now realise the three names above are now lower than a snakes belly and that dev was probably a double agent working for the brits who put countless old ira men to their deaths and who stole money donated by americans for the irish public.
I would hope that you would realise that the combined efforts of ff fg and labour to corner/embarrass Gerry adams are based on a fear of sinn fein gaining in the polls and nothing to do with his niece or the mcconville family or the families of the two police killed in south Armagh. expect more and more of the same as the election nears and don't forget but for sinn fein's intervention Irelands current president would be a ff bagman.. that's how easily it is to cod the irish voter
[/quote]

Are you not Irish? Do you not vote?
[/quote]
perhaps you Mexicans will let us nordies elect our president next time
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 05, 2013, 03:35:47 PM
No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter.

But didn't you say, over on the other thread, that the people of the 26 counties "have no interest in violence"? Odd that you would have chosen your political party largely based on it's links to violence!

Actually I should have said "stomach for" rather than "interest in" and I was referring to today rather than the past. The reality is that like most people my politics and religion were inherited rather than chosen. I have now rejected both  and some of the things that held some attraction in my youth no longer mean anything. Time and circumstance can change perspectives.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 05, 2013, 03:42:00 PM

what did they do for you that made you think they were the 'most capable' was there anything you could point to eg medical card for a relative.. planning.. bin collection..
I not making fun of you.. Im serious was it a family thing what attracted you?

No recollection of any personal family "favours" from politicians.
There was a historical element, my grandfather carried arms for the Old IRA and I remember him being a big Dev supporter. That transferred to my mother and on to me. In my own youth I remember CJH as a brilliant politician and economist and his involvement in the Arms Trial added a bit of a dangerous edge that was attractive to an immature youth with republican sympathies. I grew up at a time when civil war politics were still very raw (and that not so long ago) so if you supported one side you hated the other, well in my house anyway.
It all started to fall apart with the dismantling of CJH and Bertie and McCreevey just killed it.
you now realise the three names above are now lower than a snakes belly and that dev was probably a double agent working for the brits who put countless old ira men to their deaths and who stole money donated by americans for the irish public.
I would hope that you would realise that the combined efforts of ff fg and labour to corner/embarrass Gerry adams are based on a fear of sinn fein gaining in the polls and nothing to do with his niece or the mcconville family or the families of the two police killed in south Armagh. expect more and more of the same as the election nears and don't forget but for sinn fein's intervention Irelands current president would be a ff bagman.. that's how easily it is to cod the irish voter

Are you not Irish? Do you not vote?
[/quote]
perhaps you Mexicans will let us nordies elect our president next time
[/quote]

Actually I completely agree about the treatment of Adams by competing politicians. Its all completely cynical and self serving. The use of the issue of his brother by politicians is stomach churning and just compounds my own cynicism towards politics in general.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 05, 2013, 07:50:43 PM
Actually I completely agree about the treatment of Adams by competing politicians. Its all completely cynical and self serving. The use of the issue of his brother by politicians is stomach churning and just compounds my own cynicism towards politics in general.
Of course politicians are scoring political points - that's the nature of the beast. But you're wrong on the issue with his brother - on a number of fronts it's very much a public interest issue, and very much open to scrutiny.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 05, 2013, 11:19:21 PM
Actually I completely agree about the treatment of Adams by competing politicians. Its all completely cynical and self serving. The use of the issue of his brother by politicians is stomach churning and just compounds my own cynicism towards politics in general.
Of course politicians are scoring political points - that's the nature of the beast. But you're wrong on the issue with his brother - on a number of fronts it's very much a public interest issue, and very much open to scrutiny.

I agree with you on both counts.
 One doesn’t have to condone the killings in order to agree with Adams that “Here they were in the heart of south Armagh in the middle of a very, very severe conflict at that time and seemed to think that they were immune to attack by the IRA and tragically, as it turned out for them, that wasn’t the case.”
It’s hard to credit that neither the RUC nor the Gardai saw any need to provide the pair with protection of any sort as they drove about openly in south Armagh.
The officers in question were certainly guilty of an error of judgement; I can’t agree that they were responsible for their own deaths but they made it easier for the IRA to stage the fatal ambush.
AFAIK, not a single political spokesperson south of the border acknowledged this fact when they attacked Adams over his statement.
But my qualified agreement doesn’t stretch as far as the role he played in covering up his brother’s abuse of his niece. There are lots of questions arising from this that he may yet be obliged to answer.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: fearglasmor on December 06, 2013, 02:00:57 PM
I don't know the intimate details of what went on with Adams and his brother but if he has questions to answer then absolutely they should be asked and answered in a law court.

My only problem is that I don't believe the motives of Dail politicians are anything to do with justice for his niece.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 06, 2013, 07:25:52 PM
I don't know the intimate details of what went on with Adams and his brother but if he has questions to answer then absolutely they should be asked and answered in a law court.

My only problem is that I don't believe the motives of Dail politicians are anything to do with justice for his niece.
But it's not just about justice for his niece, and it's not just a matter for the law courts. He's a politician - a would-be Taoiseach - if there are questions over his integrity or credibility, then it's fair game for politicians.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 07, 2013, 01:00:17 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

This, or some version of it, is going be a problem for an awful lot of people next time out.

I think there will be even more independents for a while.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 07, 2013, 09:20:55 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

This, or some version of it, is going be a problem for an awful lot of people next time out.

I think there will be even more independents for a while.
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

No matter what sinn fein voters think there simply arent enough of us at present to push on to government maybe a sacrafice is needed
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 07, 2013, 10:20:41 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

This, or some version of it, is going be a problem for an awful lot of people next time out.

I think there will be even more independents for a while.
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

No matter what sinn fein voters think there simply arent enough of us at present to push on to government maybe a sacrafice is needed
I think SF would attract some more voters in the south without the likes of Adams. Some will cite Adams as a barrier but wouldn't vote for SF regardless. They won't become the largest party or lead a government for the forseeable future either way.

But I suspect there's a but of 'cutting off their nose to spite their face' with SF's current position - they don't want it to be seen for Adams to leave when the pressure's on, and they're prepared to sacrifice some votes and soak up political and media attacks to that end. But he's going to have to move at some point - not sure how / if they'll get the timing right on that one.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 07, 2013, 10:39:44 AM
The options are getting slim.
Cant stand FG
Will never vote FF again
Labour are a joke
And now opinion of SF has been revised significantly downward

This, or some version of it, is going be a problem for an awful lot of people next time out.

I think there will be even more independents for a while.
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

No matter what sinn fein voters think there simply arent enough of us at present to push on to government maybe a sacrafice is needed
I’d say many more would.
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least, and few if any believe his denial of involvement ion the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
There probably wouldn’t be a massive jump in support or SF when he finally buggers off the scene but more people would be prepared to consider the Shinners’ political policies in their own right.
People down here are very concerned about our present economic difficulties and Adams & Co. are simply not getting their vision message across. 
I’d say if you did a vox pop anywhere in the south right now, less than 5% of the public would have a clue about SF’s policies on the bailout, emigration, education and all other issues than concern us.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 07, 2013, 12:53:36 PM

I’d say if you did a vox pop anywhere in the south right now, less than 5% of the public would have a clue about SF’s policies on the bailout, emigration, education and all other issues than concern us.


Sinn Fein in the South remind me some people in our community who would be big GAA people, know everything about the game inside out. They would also be involved with the local soccer club where they would give a hand in running it. But unlike the GAA which is second nature from birth, they have came on this game later in life, the culture is not in their bones and they struggle to get a grip it's mindset of a different sport.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 07, 2013, 03:12:18 PM

I’d say if you did a vox pop anywhere in the south right now, less than 5% of the public would have a clue about SF’s policies on the bailout, emigration, education and all other issues than concern us.


Sinn Fein in the South remind me some people in our community who would be big GAA people, know everything about the game inside out. They would also be involved with the local soccer club where they would give a hand in running it. But unlike the GAA which is second nature from birth, they have came on this game later in life, the culture is not in their bones and they struggle to get a grip it's mindset of a different sport.
They have a website.. They have councillors/tds/meetings would yez not get motivated about your own country/future and try to find out something before ye follow the sheep into the polling booth
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 07, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

and few if any believe his denial of involvement ion the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2013, 12:26:55 AM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.




Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 01:01:46 AM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2013, 01:09:17 AM
Quote
Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!!

This isn't "revisionism", people always thought this.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 01:13:21 AM
Quote
Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!!

This isn't "revisionism", people always thought this.

It's a first to me!!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 01:32:16 AM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams?! FFS!!!

"I was called a terrorist yesterday, but when I came out of jail, many people embraced me, including my enemies, and that is what I normally tell other people who say those who are struggling for liberation in their country are terrorists. I tell them that I was also a terrorist yesterday, but, today, I am admired by the very people who said I was one." John Hume Nelson Mandela

I must deal immediately and at some length with the question of violence. Some of the things so far told to the court are true and some are untrue. I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people John Hume Nelson Mandela

"Force is the only language the imperialists can hear, and no country became free without some sort of violence." John Hume Nelson Mandela
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2013, 02:00:53 AM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams?! FFS!!!

"I was called a terrorist yesterday, but when I came out of jail, many people embraced me, including my enemies, and that is what I normally tell other people who say those who are struggling for liberation in their country are terrorists. I tell them that I was also a terrorist yesterday, but, today, I am admired by the very people who said I was one." John Hume Nelson Mandela

I must deal immediately and at some length with the question of violence. Some of the things so far told to the court are true and some are untrue. I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people John Hume Nelson Mandela

"Force is the only language the imperialists can hear, and no country became free without some sort of violence." John Hume Nelson Mandela

Mandela said these things. But these were not the things that made him great. It was his analysis of how to solve the problem that made him great, which is why he was closer to Hume than Adams.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 08, 2013, 10:19:13 AM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!
I think it's probably in reference to their ability to reach out to and try to make peace with their enemies, rather than the path they took in the past, that has people draw a parallel between Mandela and Hume. Adams still manages to antagonise his 'enemies' on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 08, 2013, 01:04:01 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!

You look at Mandela and only see a former 'terrorist'.

That is very sad.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on December 08, 2013, 01:07:03 PM
. Adams still manages to antagonise his 'enemies' on a regular basis.
I suspect a lot of those "enemies" are antogonised by his very existence ( or ,for some e,g TUV, the fact that he and his military associates are still not engaged in violence)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 08, 2013, 04:53:11 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.
What..? :o ::)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2013, 04:55:48 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

and few if any believe his denial of involvement ion the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

Nice to have you back again, Nally. ;D
As always, I’ll give you ten out of ten for devotion to the cause. But, as per ditto, I’ll give you sweet FA for sticking to the point.
Lawnseed posed a simple question and I attempted too answer it.

Here it is once again as you don’t appear to have read it:
Quote
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

From what I’ve seen read and heard, I gave him what I believe is the majority view.
As he wasn’t looking for my personal opinions on anything relating to Gerry or SF, I took care not to give mine at any stage in my reply.

I gave you no grounds for assuming anything concerning my attitude to Adams or any other Shinner for that matter.
So I hope to be excused when I say I won’t bother me arse trying to make sense out of this:
Quote
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

PS.
 WTF has Nelson Mandela got to with the public's perception of Gerry Adams?
ASAIK, Nelson Mandela never stood for election of any sort in the republic and you may take it for granted that he won't be doing so at any time in the future.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2013, 05:41:40 PM

I’d say if you did a vox pop anywhere in the south right now, less than 5% of the public would have a clue about SF’s policies on the bailout, emigration, education and all other issues than concern us.


Sinn Fein in the South remind me some people in our community who would be big GAA people, know everything about the game inside out. They would also be involved with the local soccer club where they would give a hand in running it. But unlike the GAA which is second nature from birth, they have came on this game later in life, the culture is not in their bones and they struggle to get a grip it's mindset of a different sport.
They have a website.. They have councillors/tds/meetings would yez not get motivated about your own country/future and try to find out something before ye follow the sheep into the polling booth
To be fair to SF, they appear to be very active at grass roots level. There is no shortage of committed canvassers, poster hangers, door knockers etc. and their local councillors are more likely to follow up on issues raised by their constituents than those of any of the other parties.
Their biggest problem, |IMO, is that their vote is concentrated in what you might call urban ghettoes and in border constituencies. They don’t have countrywide support.
Their councillors and canvassers will be kept busy all the time in, say, Finglas South but the turn out at general elections is well below the national average.
Support on the door step is fine but SF’s doesn’t translate well into support in the polling booth.
Websites are all very well but to make use of them you need to be computer literate and a high percentage of SF’s potential ain’t too hot in that regard. Having said all that, people down here are very disillusioned with the political process at present and if a party came along with the right policies, anything could happen.
If the Shinners are to make gains, they’d need a change of leader to begin with. I’d say Pearse Doherty or Marylou would have broader appeal than the present incumbent. No offence to Gerry but I’ve already given you my reasons for saying that he is holding the party back.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 07:50:15 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

and few if any believe his denial of involvement ion the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

Nice to have you back again, Nally. ;D
As always, I’ll give you ten out of ten for devotion to the cause. But, as per ditto, I’ll give you sweet FA for sticking to the point.
Lawnseed posed a simple question and I attempted too answer it.

Here it is once again as you don’t appear to have read it:
Quote
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

From what I’ve seen read and heard, I gave him what I believe is the majority view.
As he wasn’t looking for my personal opinions on anything relating to Gerry or SF, I took care not to give mine at any stage in my reply.

I gave you no grounds for assuming anything concerning my attitude to Adams or any other Shinner for that matter.
So I hope to be excused when I say I won’t bother me arse trying to make sense out of this:
Quote
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

PS.
 WTF has Nelson Mandela got to with the public's perception of Gerry Adams?
ASAIK, Nelson Mandela never stood for election of any sort in the republic and you may take it for granted that he won't be doing so at any time in the future.
That's a long winded way of avoiding my questions.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!

You look at Mandela and only see a former 'terrorist'.

That is very sad.

Such sanctimonious crap. I am more than aware of Madiba's story. Your comparison of him with Hume shows you don't see him as never having been a "terrorist". Though I'd use the term ("Freedom Fighter").
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2013, 09:15:23 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

and few if any believe his denial of involvement ion the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

Nice to have you back again, Nally. ;D
As always, I’ll give you ten out of ten for devotion to the cause. But, as per ditto, I’ll give you sweet FA for sticking to the point.
Lawnseed posed a simple question and I attempted too answer it.

Here it is once again as you don’t appear to have read it:
Quote
Then the question is simple. Would voters be happier if gerry wasnt the leader of sinn fein?

From what I’ve seen read and heard, I gave him what I believe is the majority view.
As he wasn’t looking for my personal opinions on anything relating to Gerry or SF, I took care not to give mine at any stage in my reply.

I gave you no grounds for assuming anything concerning my attitude to Adams or any other Shinner for that matter.
So I hope to be excused when I say I won’t bother me arse trying to make sense out of this:
Quote
Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above? Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so"). I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?

PS.
 WTF has Nelson Mandela got to with the public's perception of Gerry Adams?
ASAIK, Nelson Mandela never stood for election of any sort in the republic and you may take it for granted that he won't be doing so at any time in the future.
That's a long winded way of avoiding my questions.
Ah, Jaysus, here we go again!
You sure belong to the “And have you stopped beating your wife yet” school of debate.
I thought I had gone to idiot-proof lengths to explain to you that I was speaking of the general public’s perception of Gerry the political leader and I was not giving a personal opinion of any sort.
Obviously, I didn’t go far enough.
For the record, I do have a great deal of respect for his abilities as a statesman and as a peacemaker. I think history will be kind to Gerry Adams and his role in bringing about the cessation of violence will be acknowledged but that’s a generation or more down the line.
What I have said above is irrelevant in the present context.  My opinions about Gerry Adams weren’t asked for by lawnseed and I didn’t give any.
You appear to think otherwise.
Otherwise, I can’t make sense of this:

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?
Why do you assume that I believe this since I did not express a personal opinion of any sort?

Is it because Brendan Hughes (who despised Adams in recent years) said so or have you got other evidence? (And I mean evidence, not "the media keeping telling me so").
Why should I attempt to defend something I never said?

I assume you also totally believe that Jean McConville was an informer then and that "few if any would doubt it"?
What grounds have you for making that assumption?

You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I’ll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

Same as before, Nally, either put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 09:36:16 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 08, 2013, 10:42:36 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 08, 2013, 11:21:29 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2013, 10:31:43 AM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 09, 2013, 11:36:06 AM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
If your remark that:
Quote
few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2013, 01:35:22 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
If your remark that:
Quote
few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
Nah, I wasn’t. I tried hard to make sure I wasn’t giving any sort of a personal opinion/ belief or whatever when I replied to lawnseed.
He asked a question about voters in general and I replied in kind. I do believe that what I stated represents the majority view and nothing else.

 Ater that, I’m not sure what you are looking for. Take this (your question) for instance.

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?

Now, (in my reply to lawnseed,) I said nothing of the sort.
For the umpteenth time, I told him what I believed was the majority view; nothing more and nothing less.
I’m still waiting for you to elaborate on the above question.

Here again:
“If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement…”

The fact that I believe he isn’t telling the whole truth about (his knowledge of) Jean McConvile’s disappearance stops a long way short of accusing him of being directly involved.
And here also:
then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
 I never said anything of the sort.
I don't think I used the expression "quite possibly nobody" either. I used "few, if any" which isn't the same thing.
You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I’ll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

That’s all I wrote and that’s what I’ll stand over.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 09, 2013, 01:56:16 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
If your remark that:
Quote
few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
Nah, I wasn’t. I tried hard to make sure I wasn’t giving any sort of a personal opinion/ belief or whatever when I replied to lawnseed.
He asked a question about voters in general and I replied in kind. I do believe that what I stated represents the majority view and nothing else.

 Ater that, I’m not sure what you are looking for. Take this (your question) for instance.

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?

Now, (in my reply to lawnseed,) I said nothing of the sort.
For the umpteenth time, I told him what I believed was the majority view; nothing more and nothing less.
I’m still waiting for you to elaborate on the above question.

Here again:
“If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement…”

The fact that I believe he isn’t telling the whole truth about (his knowledge of) Jean McConvile’s disappearance stops a long way short of accusing him of being directly involved.
And here also:
then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
 I never said anything of the sort.
I don't think I used the expression "quite possibly nobody" either. I used "few, if any" which isn't the same thing.
You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I’ll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

That’s all I wrote and that’s what I’ll stand over.

You said that "few, if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville". This is exactly the same as saying that "quite possibly nobody believes" he wasn't involved. "If any" implies that there may just be "nobody" who believes him. And your later stated view that he wasn't directly involved kinda contradicts the "if any" part of your "few, if any" remark, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on December 09, 2013, 02:42:16 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
If your remark that:
Quote
few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
Nah, I wasn’t. I tried hard to make sure I wasn’t giving any sort of a personal opinion/ belief or whatever when I replied to lawnseed.
He asked a question about voters in general and I replied in kind. I do believe that what I stated represents the majority view and nothing else.

 Ater that, I’m not sure what you are looking for. Take this (your question) for instance.

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?

Now, (in my reply to lawnseed,) I said nothing of the sort.
For the umpteenth time, I told him what I believed was the majority view; nothing more and nothing less.
I’m still waiting for you to elaborate on the above question.

Here again:
“If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement…”

The fact that I believe he isn’t telling the whole truth about (his knowledge of) Jean McConvile’s disappearance stops a long way short of accusing him of being directly involved.
And here also:
then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
 I never said anything of the sort.
I don't think I used the expression "quite possibly nobody" either. I used "few, if any" which isn't the same thing.
You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I’ll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

That’s all I wrote and that’s what I’ll stand over.

You said that "few, if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville". This is exactly the same as saying that "quite possibly nobody believes" he wasn't involved. "If any" implies that there may just be "nobody" who believes him. And your later stated view that he wasn't directly involved kinda contradicts the "if any" part of your "few, if any" remark, doesn't it?

So are you are pulling Lar up on using "Few, if any" as this implies that no one believes Gerry had any involvement whilst Lar has stated that he doesn't believe the had direct involvement?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 09, 2013, 03:07:54 PM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: johnneycool on December 09, 2013, 03:19:25 PM
I'd have John Hume more as an Archbishop Desmond Tutu type figure in all fairness.

 ;D
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on December 09, 2013, 04:16:51 PM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 09, 2013, 04:48:36 PM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.
I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Maguire01 on December 09, 2013, 05:03:25 PM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.
I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime
I wouldn't be just as sure.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 09, 2013, 06:45:45 PM
Do you think he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville?
Since you asked me a direct question, I’ll give you a straight answer.

No, I doubt very much that he was involved in the disappearance of Jean McConville but I also doubt that he’s telling the whole truth.
I wouldn’t claim either to be a fact as I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?
Does it matter?
Since I made no claims of any sort about Adams and/or his activities when I attempted to answer a simple question from lawnseed, I don’t see why I should need to explain my personal beliefs to anyone.
But all of this is getting away from the central point at issue here, isn’t it?
You still haven’t pointed out what it is in my reply to lawnseed that indicates that I personally believe anything about Gerry Adams.
If and when you do that, I'll have a go at explaining anything you want if it bothers you in any way.
If your remark that:
Quote
few if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville and the other Disappeared.
wasn't you implying that you believe he was involved in Jean McConville's disappearance, then fair enough. Though it does seem odd that you then claimed not to believe the accusations that he was involved, despite you stating in the above post that quite possibly nobody believes he wasn't involved in it.

As for why you should respond to my question, "Which part of his denial of involvement in it do you think he is not telling the full truth on?", well, of course you don't have to answer; but it's a discussion board, and you've been happy enough to discuss the topic and your "personal beliefs" on it, up as far as the last question. If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement, then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
Nah, I wasn’t. I tried hard to make sure I wasn’t giving any sort of a personal opinion/ belief or whatever when I replied to lawnseed.
He asked a question about voters in general and I replied in kind. I do believe that what I stated represents the majority view and nothing else.

 Ater that, I’m not sure what you are looking for. Take this (your question) for instance.

Why do you personally believe he was involved in the above?

Now, (in my reply to lawnseed,) I said nothing of the sort.
For the umpteenth time, I told him what I believed was the majority view; nothing more and nothing less.
I’m still waiting for you to elaborate on the above question.

Here again:
“If you're happy enough to put forward the idea that he's lying about his involvement…”

The fact that I believe he isn’t telling the whole truth about (his knowledge of) Jean McConvile’s disappearance stops a long way short of accusing him of being directly involved.
And here also:
then surely you should have no reason to go all quiet when asked to elaborate.
 I never said anything of the sort.
I don't think I used the expression "quite possibly nobody" either. I used "few, if any" which isn't the same thing.
You show me where I said anything to suggest I was giving my personal opinions about anything to lawnseed and I’ll be quite happy to enlighten you on anything that is causing you problems.

That’s all I wrote and that’s what I’ll stand over.

You said that "few, if any believe his denial of involvement in the abduction and murder of Jean McConville". This is exactly the same as saying that "quite possibly nobody believes" he wasn't involved. "If any" implies that there may just be "nobody" who believes him. And your later stated view that he wasn't directly involved kinda contradicts the "if any" part of your "few, if any" remark, doesn't it?
You appear to misinterpret what I mean by “few, if any” so I’ll attempt to oblige. Then maybe you will go back to the point at which you picked me up on my reply to lawnseed and indicate where I gave any sort of personal opinion about Gerry Adams or anyone else.
Here goes……..
I have yet to come across any member of the public who has stated he/she totally believes Gerry Adams played no part whatever in Jean McConville’s disappearance. That included all others who Disappeared as I pointed out..
I exclude only SF spokespeople, activists, canvassers etc.
(Incidentally, some of my former school pupils who work for the party accept that he was but the topical reaction is a shrug of the shoulders and a dismissive remark like, “So what? It was a fuckin’ war, wasn’t it?”)
I cannot say with absolute certainty that nobody believes Adams is completely innocent of all charges levelled at him. But if there are some who do, they are few in number and they are keeping remarkably quiet about it.
Now maybe you’ll go back and address the questions I put to you and quit stalling.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 10, 2013, 01:28:52 AM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.
I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime
I wouldn't be just as sure.
In relation to jean mcconville her remains were found by a member  of the public its still a live case
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on December 10, 2013, 10:05:13 AM
What's the difference? What was his possible "indirect involvement"?

I do not for one moment believe Gerry stole the car, knocked on the door, pulled the trigger or dug  the hole.

I would consider being part of the chain of command responsible for the process as an indirect involvement.

I can understand why he has to continually deny being in the IRA but many suspect he was a  member senior enough that the British Government would want to talk to him.
I sure the police would be very imterested in any information you have as would all the political parties and press on this island.. Feel free to share anytime

And how do I prove a negative?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2013, 12:58:32 PM
Gerry’s past was controversial, to say the very least
So was Nelson Mandela's.

Gerry Adams is no Nelson Mandela.

The only Irish person that comes close is John Hume.

Sweet f**k! Revisionism has just reached a spectacular new height here!! Normally, freestate-ism annoys me, but sometimes it's just f***ing hilarious!!! John Hume more similar to Nelson Mandela than Adams is?! FFS!!!

You look at Mandela and only see a former 'terrorist'.

That is very sad.

Such sanctimonious crap. I am more than aware of Madiba's story. Your comparison of him with Hume shows you don't see him as never having been a "terrorist". Though I'd use the term ("Freedom Fighter").

On the contrary. My comparison with Hume is because he dealt with his enemy despite huge opposition from his own people.

My observation of Adams is that not only will he never do a Mandela with his enemies, but he wouldn't even do it with some of his own.

The criticism of Hume on here highlights that perfectly.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 01:20:54 PM
It's all about perspectives!
People's anti shinner/republican bias means they can never give credit or speak positively about shinners or republicans!
This is caused by decades of biased media propaganda about them!

People should start to realise after the recent ( but already brushed under the carpet as it's too damning) revelations about state establishment and participation in unionist/loyalist/security forces/Brit army death squads targeting innocent irish catholic nationalists - that maybe all the things the Irish nationalist republican Catholics in the six counties were saying might actually be true and their stories might be more accurate rather than the propaganda fed to the masses in Southern Ireland and globally!!!!!

Hume and McGuinness ( and grudgingly myself I have to admit Adams too) were both ends of the Mandela experience
That the experience happened right here is fecking shameful - but still yet nationalists/Catholics/republican/Irish are still biasedly thought of as ' the bad guys'  or at best 'both sides were the same' - no they f**king weren't.
Killing and what the IRA did was wrong, but there was boot her alternative and we are where we are today with so many lives intact because of them -yet with 3000+ deaths the primary indicator of what was lost
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
And I would vote ff again if they put up a credible candidate in my constituency - the last one is gone.
As long as their leadership can spell - it would be an improvement.
Though I'm becoming more apathetic about the parties and their self serving selfish td's

I'd just about be able to pick a decent gov out of the entire dail
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2013, 02:22:19 PM
It's all about perspectives!
People's anti shinner/republican bias means they can never give credit or speak positively about shinners or republicans!
This is caused by decades of biased media propaganda about them!

People should start to realise after the recent ( but already brushed under the carpet as it's too damning) revelations about state establishment and participation in unionist/loyalist/security forces/Brit army death squads targeting innocent irish catholic nationalists - that maybe all the things the Irish nationalist republican Catholics in the six counties were saying might actually be true and their stories might be more accurate rather than the propaganda fed to the masses in Southern Ireland and globally!!!!!

Hume and McGuinness ( and grudgingly myself I have to admit Adams too) were both ends of the Mandela experience
That the experience happened right here is fecking shameful - but still yet nationalists/Catholics/republican/Irish are still biasedly thought of as ' the bad guys'  or at best 'both sides were the same' - no they f**king weren't.
Killing and what the IRA did was wrong, but there was boot her alternative and we are where we are today with so many lives intact because of them -yet with 3000+ deaths the primary indicator of what was lost

SF signed up for the GFA and for that I am grateful and happy to give credit where it is due.

However my opinion is my own and certainly not based on a very lame southern media.

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
No offense chief
But how else could you form opinions on nordies!!

A few pints and a slagging in Quinn's a couple of times a year didn't give it to ya!!


I can understand why your opinion differs from mine at least!
- no big prob there!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2013, 03:18:13 PM
No offense chief
But how else could you form opinions on nordies!!

A few pints and a slagging in Quinn's a couple of times a year didn't give it to ya!!


I can understand why your opinion differs from mine at least!
- no big prob there!

I spent a nearly two years up there.

(Don't remember most of it though - some craic  :D)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 14, 2013, 03:39:15 PM
Hopefully it was post dark old days!

Hume was looked upon as a terrorist at the civil rights time
However others were deemed worse so John wasn't public enemy number one for too long

It's a pity his sdlp party turned into sihte without him
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 14, 2013, 04:09:53 PM
Hopefully it was post dark old days!

Hume was looked upon as a terrorist at the civil rights time
However others were deemed worse so John wasn't public enemy number one for too long

It's a pity his sdlp party turned into sihte without him

Late eighties.

The people I met were fantastic to me particularly as I knew no one when I went up there.

Mandela seemed more able to get the moderates agenda to the forefront after the whites granted universal franchise. That is not meant to be a criticism of Republicans or Nationalists, because there is obviously nothing remotely like Mandela coming from the Unionist/Loyalist side either.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Lar Naparka on December 14, 2013, 05:16:12 PM
And I would vote ff again if they put up a credible candidate in my constituency - the last one is gone.
As long as their leadership can spell - it would be an improvement.
Though I'm becoming more apathetic about the parties and their self serving selfish td's

I'd just about be able to pick a decent gov out of the entire dail
As you said in your previous post, it’s all about perspective.


I would also consider voting for FF sometime in the future if I felt they had more credible policies than any of the other parties. I don’t see this happening until every one of those who played a part in the last government has left the scene. Even then, I would not guarantee anything.
If I had to choose between FF and FG/Lab, I’d go with the latter not because I  think they are doing a good job but rather because I feel they are not quite as useless as the former.
If the present shower had got elected on the back of their pre-election policies in 2007 and 2002, they’d have landed us in the doo doo, same as FF.
That leaves SF as the only credible alternative.
I’d certainly vote for them if I felt that they had realistic, practical policies and right now, I don’t. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of voters in the republic think the same way.
Can you tell me what SF’s policy on education is right now? I could say the same about rural depopulation, emigration, and just about every other aspect of daily life down here.
You can forget about decades of biased media propaganda being the cause of SF’s lack of widespread support down here. We’re spoilt for choice when we go looking for news about any topic under the sun and that includes current affairs.
We’ve got the Mail, the Star and the Sun as well as our domestic dailies. UTV, SKY, BBC etc. as well as NBC and CNN are freely available so we don’t have to rely on RTE and TV3.
If there’s a conspiracy afoot to discredit SF, it’s a worldwide one. On the other hand, it could just be that the Shinners blame everyone else for their lack of credibility and refuse to look in the mirror!
Still, they have a few able spokespeople and Mary Lou is gaining ground. Her popularity certainly outstrips that of her party.
Pearse Doherty is coming across quite well also but I’d say voters down here would consider him too young to lead the party.
Look, “Rromantic Ireland’s dead and gone; it’s with O’Leary in the grave,” as WB Yeats said.
If SF ever develops policies that deal with current issues and concentrate on the here and now, they might do a lot better than they are doing right now.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 15, 2013, 08:32:53 PM
Every time theres a budget or an important decision re anything from eduacation to health to employment. sinn fein put their costed alternative in the public domain and try to put it forward in the dail.
What do you want? Maybe a handwritten copy in the style of the book of kells
You need to get interested in the way your country is run. Take ownership of the place the brits have been out of your bit for 100years stop leaving it to 'themuns'
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Nally Stand on December 15, 2013, 08:37:42 PM
But SF do "concentrate on the here and now". If McGuinness' election campaign proved anything, its that there are swathes of people in the 26 counties are aren't quite as capable of doing so themselves (but who will at the same time, sanctimoniously lecture others to do so).
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lawnseed on December 15, 2013, 08:44:01 PM
But SF do "concentrate on the here and now". If McGuinness' election campaign proved anything, its that there are swathes of people in the 26 counties are aren't quite as capable of doing so themselves (but who will at the same time, sanctimoniously lecture others to do so).
Just you and me bro.. Ourselves alone.. theyve given up  8)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: lynchbhoy on December 15, 2013, 10:30:30 PM
And I would vote ff again if they put up a credible candidate in my constituency - the last one is gone.
As long as their leadership can spell - it would be an improvement.
Though I'm becoming more apathetic about the parties and their self serving selfish td's

I'd just about be able to pick a decent gov out of the entire dail
As you said in your previous post, it’s all about perspective.


I would also consider voting for FF sometime in the future if I felt they had more credible policies than any of the other parties. I don’t see this happening until every one of those who played a part in the last government has left the scene. Even then, I would not guarantee anything.
If I had to choose between FF and FG/Lab, I’d go with the latter not because I  think they are doing a good job but rather because I feel they are not quite as useless as the former.
If the present shower had got elected on the back of their pre-election policies in 2007 and 2002, they’d have landed us in the doo doo, same as FF.
That leaves SF as the only credible alternative.
I’d certainly vote for them if I felt that they had realistic, practical policies and right now, I don’t. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of voters in the republic think the same way.
Can you tell me what SF’s policy on education is right now? I could say the same about rural depopulation, emigration, and just about every other aspect of daily life down here.
You can forget about decades of biased media propaganda being the cause of SF’s lack of widespread support down here. We’re spoilt for choice when we go looking for news about any topic under the sun and that includes current affairs.
We’ve got the Mail, the Star and the Sun as well as our domestic dailies. UTV, SKY, BBC etc. as well as NBC and CNN are freely available so we don’t have to rely on RTE and TV3.
If there’s a conspiracy afoot to discredit SF, it’s a worldwide one. On the other hand, it could just be that the Shinners blame everyone else for their lack of credibility and refuse to look in the mirror!
Still, they have a few able spokespeople and Mary Lou is gaining ground. Her popularity certainly outstrips that of her party.
Pearse Doherty is coming across quite well also but I’d say voters down here would consider him too young to lead the party.
Look, “Rromantic Ireland’s dead and gone; it’s with O’Leary in the grave,” as WB Yeats said.
If SF ever develops policies that deal with current issues and concentrate on the here and now, they might do a lot better than they are doing right now.
apologies LAr- I should have made myself clearer.
My comments about nationalist/republicans/Irish/catholics being mirepresented and given a disgraceful anti bias - was mostly 1968-1994/2000 ish.
any modern day campaign against sf (which im not that bothered about) is prob due t ff owned media rags trying to undermine them as their profile raises in the south and means they are a potential threat to ff, fg etc - well not potential, they are a growing threat.
so the status quo dont want them. power is money and all that.
remember where all the media agencies you quoted get their info from - its not their on the ground people- its from central state sources- thats why they all report the same news, why their wording is often identical as they rebroadcast the same source transmission!! again my beef is from yesteryear.

its funny you should mention the oft trotted out about what are sf's policies on ecnomics etc etc
sure we have ff who used to do that- dont think they have a leg to stand on with that regard after the financial fiasco they presided over.
likewise fg have not covered themselves in glory - though they will try to take credit for the resolution and 'stability' to the country - but as I read a michael noonan comment in yesterdays paper, he says we are lucky that market conditions in europe are favourable this past couple of years!! thats the nail on the head.
if europe was still in ruins, we would still be in the mire.
ff fg et al are not better in their finance or economic policies that sf or anyone really.
we are a country not a company and the country was always going to right itself - especally with the corporate tax rate we have that lures and retains wompanies and employers.
Even bankrupt Iceland have returned to prosperity. thougth without the safety net of the EU - but they burned the banks and bond holders.
so i say that its much of a muchness in comparison of the policies between all political parties here. its a myth that sf are any more clueless than the rest. imo they ar eall clueless.
remember that irespective of who gets into gov - the securocrats in the civil service remain the same and they advise and tell the gov what they should be doing- thus policies dont really deviate much - despite pre-election pledges to radically change all and sundry.

romantic Ireland is dead and gone, we are all capitalistic me feiner bastards now.
apart from those poor unfortunates that havent a pot to piss in. the real casualties of halfwit prev clueless gov policy and continued clueless gov policy that cant/wont assist them.

my prob is not will I vote ff again, but will I vote at all.
people complain saying that its us that vote theese eejits into office.
but when you have self effacing ex cops, civil servants, teachers, doctors etc etc all standing for local election - what chance have you got when any of these become TD and end up in gov ? what business acumen have any of these fcukers got?
we have a teacher leading the country that can hardly spell and a litany of gobshite sheep in gov and opposition.

as I said, id just about make a gov aout of the pick of all td's in the dail.

im too much of a fat cat capitalist myself to join in or start a revolution
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on December 18, 2013, 11:15:27 AM
Every time theres a budget or an important decision re anything from eduacation to health to employment. sinn fein put their costed alternative in the public domain and try to put it forward in the dail.
What do you want? Maybe a handwritten copy in the style of the book of kells
You need to get interested in the way your country is run. Take ownership of the place the brits have been out of your bit for 100years stop leaving it to 'themuns'

They put great stock in it being 'costed'.

It is like saying, we added it all up.

Only in politics could you make multi-billion euro proposals and boast that you had actually checked to see what it might cost.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: LeoMc on December 18, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
Every time theres a budget or an important decision re anything from eduacation to health to employment. sinn fein put their costed alternative in the public domain and try to put it forward in the dail.
What do you want? Maybe a handwritten copy in the style of the book of kells
You need to get interested in the way your country is run. Take ownership of the place the brits have been out of your bit for 100years stop leaving it to 'themuns'

They put great stock in it being 'costed'.

It is like saying, we added it all up.

Only in politics could you make multi-billion euro proposals and boast that you had actually checked to see what it might cost.

Only in Politics can you promise billions without having to say how you will pay for it.
At every election you will hear promises to abolish tuition fees or household charges  or give everyone medical cards or a new road.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: johnneycool on December 18, 2013, 11:58:20 AM
Hopefully it was post dark old days!

Hume was looked upon as a terrorist at the civil rights time
However others were deemed worse so John wasn't public enemy number one for too long

It's a pity his sdlp party turned into sihte without him

Late eighties.

The people I met were fantastic to me particularly as I knew no one when I went up there.

Mandela seemed more able to get the moderates agenda to the forefront after the whites granted universal franchise. That is not meant to be a criticism of Republicans or Nationalists, because there is obviously nothing remotely like Mandela coming from the Unionist/Loyalist side either.

You mean an F. W. de Klerk type person I presume?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: All of a Sludden on May 26, 2014, 11:44:48 AM
National update: FF the largest party with 37 local seats remaining

Just 37 council seats around the country remain to be decided this morning, with Fianna Fáil set to become the largest party at local council level.
The party has won 257 seats so far. Independents and others are next with 229 seats. Fine Gael has 221 seats, while Sinn Féin has 153 seats.
Labour has taken the biggest hit, with just 50 seats so far in local councils around the country - half its figure from the last local elections in 2009.
Elsewhere, first official counts are expected in the South and Midlands/NorthWest constituencies at lunchtime.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: seafoid on May 26, 2014, 01:36:55 PM
Very poor result for FF - they won't get back to glory days any time soon if they can't rise above 30% when the Government is struggling.
I'd say a lot of younger voters have given up on them.
I was looking at the council results in Galway city- in one ward FG got one seat on the last count and FF got none and most of the seats went to independents.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on June 19, 2014, 10:05:02 AM
Its obviously sad given his personal circumstances but he's clearly a sc**bag (given the previous assault) and you'd think its against better judgement of a justice spokesman to be writing to the judge on the case

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/collins-wrote-to-judge-seeking-leniency-for-drug-dealer-1.1837240


Collins wrote to judge seeking leniency for drug dealer

Fianna Fáil justice spokesman appealed on behalf of Limerick criminal


Fianna Fáil justice spokesman Niall Collins wrote to a judge asking him not to jail a convicted drug dealer, it emerged at a sentencing hearing this week.

At a sitting of Limerick Circuit Criminal Court, Judge Carroll Moran was asked not to attach any weight to the letter written by the TD. The handwritten letter was presented by lawyers representing a 40- year-old father of four from Co Limerick.

Earlier this year, Hugo Porter of St Patrick’s Villa’s , Castleconnell, Co Limerick, pleaded guilty to possession of cannabis and cannabis resin for the purpose of sale or supply.

The drugs, which had a street value of almost €18,000, were recovered by gardaí in a field at Garden Hill, Castleconnell, on June 24th, 2011.

At Porter’s sentencing hearing on Monday, the judge was told the convicted man was the sole carer of his four young children as his wife had died in tragic circumstances earlier this year.

Defence counsel Michael Collins argued that the family circumstances of the accused man placed the case in the “exceptional category”. He said this was supported by the letter written by Deputy Collins, which was presented to the judge.

The letter, which was not read out in court, was dated last month and was written on personalised headed paper and included Niall Collins’s photograph and contact details.

Prosecution counsel John O’Sullivan urged the judge “not to attach too much weight” to the letter.

He said the practice of public representatives writing to sentencing judges was “not uncommon” in the recent past but that it was no longer commonplace.

A co-accused in the drugs case, Alan Lysaght (39), from Scanlon Park, Castleconnell, was jailed for three years with the final year suspended.

Adjourning sentencing in the case of Porter, the judge said he had to consider the possible activation of a suspended sentence for an earlier assault case and an appropriate sentence for the drugs case. A two-year prison sentence was suspended in 2009 for an assault in which Porter produced a broken glass during a dispute in Co Clare.

Sentencing was adjourned until October 10th next.

Attempts to contact Deputy Collins tonight were unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on June 19, 2014, 10:22:44 AM
Yeah, tricky one. Politicians shouldn't be sticking their noses in. However it does seem hard on the kids, but then again I don't know this guys form. €18k of hash wouldn't exactly put him up there with the Caseys, Kellys and co, but it's still drug dealing.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 24, 2014, 09:57:35 PM
Brian Crowley has been (or is in the process of being) expelled. No FF MEP. All I can say is WOW!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on June 24, 2014, 10:51:10 PM
Personally, I think he's no loss to FF, a bandwagon party member if there ever was one. I was living down in Cork in 04 when the Bertie bus was in full swing and his posters were plastered with the FF logo the same as anyone. I remember seeing massive posters by the side of the road in 09 when the wheels had come off the bus and you could literally barely see the FF logo on his poster. And now, a few weeks after getting elected on the FF ticket (and no doubt availing of party funds, canvassers, etc), he jumps ship. TBF, he probably could have gotten elected if he was standing for the DUP but all the same it shows a complete lack of integrity on his part.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Pangurban on June 25, 2014, 09:40:19 PM
Crowley is just another on the make Gombeen Man
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on June 26, 2014, 09:37:21 AM
So why is he leaving FF?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on June 26, 2014, 09:57:33 AM
Why did Ronan Keating leave Boyzone?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on June 26, 2014, 10:01:54 AM
Why is a mouse when he spins?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on June 26, 2014, 10:02:01 AM
Something to do with joining a Euro sceptic group in Europe
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on June 26, 2014, 10:08:40 AM
That makes sense.  Kinda.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: AZOffaly on June 26, 2014, 10:09:56 AM
It's Brian Crowley taking the mé féin road. Fianna Fail are sickened because they wanted him to be their gombeen man, he wanted a solo career.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Billys Boots on June 26, 2014, 10:27:52 AM
It's Brian Crowley taking the mé féin road. Fianna Fail are sickened because they wanted him to be their gombeen man, he wanted a solo career.

Mé Féin?  I like it - if he got a few mates in with him he could call it ... hang on a minute.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Mayo4Sam on July 29, 2014, 12:36:01 PM
I see Callelly got jail yesterday, pity it wasnt for longer and with a few more of his party buddies
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 23, 2015, 04:35:31 PM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 23, 2015, 04:53:25 PM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 23, 2015, 05:09:51 PM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on May 23, 2015, 05:29:13 PM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Jez, there are plenty of alternatives. You just have to look a little harder!

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 24, 2015, 12:22:14 AM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Not much of an 'alternative' though really.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 24, 2015, 12:36:51 AM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories
The
What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Not much of an 'alternative' though really.

None of the alternatives bankrupted the country
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2015, 12:40:19 AM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Not much of an 'alternative' though really.

None of the alternatives bankrupt the country

I think you need the past tense there.
The present government didn't do anything much, under the guidance of the Troika, that a FF government would not have done.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: From the Bunker on May 24, 2015, 12:41:07 AM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Not much of an 'alternative' though really.

None of the alternatives bankrupt the country

So your answer is to go back Fianna Fail to sort out this country? Time to move on. Fool me once shame on you..................
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 24, 2015, 12:50:42 AM
Hard to believe that FF are getting 29% in carlow/kk, we have short memories

What's the alternative?

Literally any of the other parties

Not much of an 'alternative' though really.

None of the alternatives bankrupt the country

I think you need the past tense there.
The present government didn't do anything much, under the guidance of the Troika, that a FF government would not have done.

Updated now  :)

As I said, ANY of the alternatives would be better than FF
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2015, 02:42:31 AM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2015, 06:35:17 PM
Their new found delight at winning Carlow/Kilkenny disappearing rapidly as Senator Avril Power jumps ship criticising the Leader.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: magpie seanie on May 26, 2015, 03:39:26 PM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.


FG and LAB are the same party as FF, with a different colour scheme. We have had one party in power for over 80 years.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 26, 2015, 05:31:33 PM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.

FF introduced the Bank Guarantee. They told us in the Dáil that it was because there was a liquidity problem, not one of solvency. They were wrong and that destroyed the economy.

People voted for FF because they were more convincing in fooling voters that they could do anything for them, with no consequences. SF have replaced them in that regard. But FF gave us the Bank Guarantee. It was on no manifesto ever and considering the lie about solvency, it is debatable whether or not it was fraud.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2015, 09:19:00 AM
Good post Muppet.
Started as far back as 1977.... Cut taxes and increase public spending and all will be fine.
Fast forward to Sinn Féin 2015.... Cut taxes and increase.........
When will we ever learn....? :(
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.

FF introduced the Bank Guarantee. They told us in the Dáil that it was because there was a liquidity problem, not one of solvency. They were wrong and that destroyed the economy.

People voted for FF because they were more convincing in fooling voters that they could do anything for them, with no consequences. SF have replaced them in that regard. But FF gave us the Bank Guarantee. It was on no manifesto ever and considering the lie about solvency, it is debatable whether or not it was fraud.

The Bank Guarantee may not may not have been the right call on the day, but the fact that the day arrived was a direct consequence of FF policies in their manifesto and the other parties didn't have policies that were much different.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2015, 11:25:55 AM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.

FF introduced the Bank Guarantee. They told us in the Dáil that it was because there was a liquidity problem, not one of solvency. They were wrong and that destroyed the economy.

People voted for FF because they were more convincing in fooling voters that they could do anything for them, with no consequences. SF have replaced them in that regard. But FF gave us the Bank Guarantee. It was on no manifesto ever and considering the lie about solvency, it is debatable whether or not it was fraud.

The Bank Guarantee may not may not have been the right call on the day, but the fact that the day arrived was a direct consequence of FF policies in their manifesto and the other parties didn't have policies that were much different.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Alistair Campbell would have been proud of that one.

The decision to bet the entire economy on dodgy banks was not in any manifesto, no matter how loyal to FF you are.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.

FF introduced the Bank Guarantee. They told us in the Dáil that it was because there was a liquidity problem, not one of solvency. They were wrong and that destroyed the economy.

People voted for FF because they were more convincing in fooling voters that they could do anything for them, with no consequences. SF have replaced them in that regard. But FF gave us the Bank Guarantee. It was on no manifesto ever and considering the lie about solvency, it is debatable whether or not it was fraud.

The Bank Guarantee may not may not have been the right call on the day, but the fact that the day arrived was a direct consequence of FF policies in their manifesto and the other parties didn't have policies that were much different.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Alistair Campbell would have been proud of that one.

The decision to bet the entire economy on dodgy banks was not in any manifesto, no matter how loyal to FF you are.

I am not a FF supporter, but if people vote for this then they can 't complain about the outcome.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2015, 11:56:47 AM
FF didn't fool anyone, their plans were in their manifesto more or less. People believed in the money tree and voted for them.

FF introduced the Bank Guarantee. They told us in the Dáil that it was because there was a liquidity problem, not one of solvency. They were wrong and that destroyed the economy.

People voted for FF because they were more convincing in fooling voters that they could do anything for them, with no consequences. SF have replaced them in that regard. But FF gave us the Bank Guarantee. It was on no manifesto ever and considering the lie about solvency, it is debatable whether or not it was fraud.

The Bank Guarantee may not may not have been the right call on the day, but the fact that the day arrived was a direct consequence of FF policies in their manifesto and the other parties didn't have policies that were much different.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Alistair Campbell would have been proud of that one.

The decision to bet the entire economy on dodgy banks was not in any manifesto, no matter how loyal to FF you are.

I am not a FF supporter, but if people vote for this then they can 't complain about the outcome.

But Alistair, the people didn't vote for this.

Not only that, but the Dáil was told it was not a solvency issue. The entire premise of the Bank Guarantee was that it was a liquidity issue, and thus it was false.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hound on May 27, 2015, 02:54:59 PM

But Alistair, the people didn't vote for this.

Not only that, but the Dáil was told it was not a solvency issue. The entire premise of the Bank Guarantee was that it was a liquidity issue, and thus it was false.
Do you think Fianna Fail deliberately misled the Dail? That they knew the banks were insolvent and thus the country becoming bankrupt was inevitable?

The guarantee seemed by most to be a good idea at the time, but it was just too wide.

Personally I don't put the blame of the guarantee (and the blanketness of it) on FF - it was certain individuals within FF, in particular Cowen and Lenihan, although it appears Cowen was most adamant that it go ahead while Lenihan had some doubts.

For me, that makes Cowen the biggest Irish villain in the history of the Irish state. It absolutely sickens me the huge money he's still receiving that is coming out of taxpayers' pockets. But blaming FF party members who had no idea what was going on that night, and blaming current party members who werent even in office in those days is too extreme. Might as well blame everyone who's ever given them a top 3 or 4 preference vote.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 03:13:58 PM
Do you think Fianna Fail deliberately misled the Dail? That they knew the banks were insolvent and thus the country becoming bankrupt was inevitable?

The guarantee seemed by most to be a good idea at the time, but it was just too wide.

Personally I don't put the blame of the guarantee (and the blanketness of it) on FF - it was certain individuals within FF, in particular Cowen and Lenihan, although it appears Cowen was most adamant that it go ahead while Lenihan had some doubts.

For me, that makes Cowen the biggest Irish villain in the history of the Irish state. It absolutely sickens me the huge money he's still receiving that is coming out of taxpayers' pockets. But blaming FF party members who had no idea what was going on that night, and blaming current party members who werent even in office in those days is too extreme. Might as well blame everyone who's ever given them a top 3 or 4 preference vote.

There is two issues here.
One is the policies of FF for a period of loose regulation and disinterest in what the banks were up to, this was supported by many, but Cowen was the Minister of Finance and has to take the largest share of the blame.
Then there is a particular events of the guarantee.

But to focus on one single day is to blame the goalkeeper for the complete lack of defence or in motoring parlance to say that the driver should have swerved left instead of right when it was his decision to drive too fast that brought the need to swerve about.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 27, 2015, 04:08:42 PM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2015, 04:45:14 PM
Do you think Fianna Fail deliberately misled the Dail? That they knew the banks were insolvent and thus the country becoming bankrupt was inevitable?

The guarantee seemed by most to be a good idea at the time, but it was just too wide.

Personally I don't put the blame of the guarantee (and the blanketness of it) on FF - it was certain individuals within FF, in particular Cowen and Lenihan, although it appears Cowen was most adamant that it go ahead while Lenihan had some doubts.

For me, that makes Cowen the biggest Irish villain in the history of the Irish state. It absolutely sickens me the huge money he's still receiving that is coming out of taxpayers' pockets. But blaming FF party members who had no idea what was going on that night, and blaming current party members who werent even in office in those days is too extreme. Might as well blame everyone who's ever given them a top 3 or 4 preference vote.

There is two issues here.
One is the policies of FF for a period of loose regulation and disinterest in what the banks were up to, this was supported by many, but Cowen was the Minister of Finance and has to take the largest share of the blame.
Then there is a particular events of the guarantee.

But to focus on one single day is to blame the goalkeeper for the complete lack of defence or in motoring parlance to say that the driver should have swerved left instead of right when it was his decision to drive too fast that brought the need to swerve about.

One of the issues here is the dividing of oversight between the Central Bank, which before joining the Euro had complete responsibility, and the Financial Regulator, whose main achievement was the advert which began 'I don't know what a tracker mortgage is'. McCreevy wanted the Central Bank to continue to provide oversight, while Mary Harney of the PDs insisted oversight was split and the office of the Financial Regulator was created. Bertie went with Harney and the new Qango, and that appears to have been a disastrous decision for all of us.

The guarantee was idiotic. See the early pages of the Bailout thread, and in particular BogBall XV's prescient posts the day after.

Just back from the beer I mentioned earlier.

Shouldn't have gone.

From what I hear Irish banking will not be the same by lunchtime today. Better stay in bed.



Beer on a Monday night is never a good thing unless you've just won the AI - In that instance, it's almost compulsory !  ;) :D

Good news for Irish banking ?

Will UK and other governments follow suit ?

I don't know the ins and outs of it yet, but it seems to be a massive piece of bluffing by lenno - if he were ever asked to pay up, he couldn't, i suppose it depends on how long it will be before the markets either test his promise or just decide to disbelieve him.  If he has to come up with the goods, it'll be a disaster for the taxpayer.  We're currently talking about the budget from hell coming up because tax revenues are short by 7bn on estimates (you have to wonder what idiot came up with the estimates), yet the minister finds it okay to guarantee over €400Bn of loans made by banks?  If 10% go bad (probably not an unreasonable assumption) that's €40 Bn, almost our total annual budget.
It would have been a better idea to force some mergers between the banks who appeared in serious bother yesterday and the ones who just appeared in bother.

More here.....

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9548.45 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9548.45)

Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hardy on May 27, 2015, 04:49:06 PM
Bogball is missing from the board since 2011. A great pity. He was a top-notch contributor.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 05:45:05 PM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

The point was that through the incompetence of the Regulator they didn't really know in what state the banks were and the banks lied to them pure and simple. The guarantee was made from a position of pure ignorance, both of economic theory and of actual data, as any outright fraud on the part of Cowan.

IMHO the damage could have been reduced if they had taken prompt action after Northern Rock/Lehmans etc to identify the real state of the Irish banking sector, with real data then it might have been clearer to have a more limited guarantee.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2015, 05:51:38 PM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

The point was that through the incompetence of the Regulator they didn't really know in what state the banks were and the banks lied to them pure and simple. The guarantee was made from a position of pure ignorance, both of economic theory and of actual data, as any outright fraud on the part of Cowan.

IMHO the damage could have been reduced if they had taken prompt action after Northern Rock/Lehmans etc to identify the real state of the Irish banking sector, with real data then it might have been clearer to have a more limited guarantee.

Lehman's only happened two weeks beforehand. Maybe you meant Bear Stearns? After that event, they spent most of their time and energy trying to stop Sean Quinn's gambling from pulling Anglo down afaik.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 27, 2015, 05:54:43 PM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

The point was that through the incompetence of the Regulator they didn't really know in what state the banks were and the banks lied to them pure and simple. The guarantee was made from a position of pure ignorance, both of economic theory and of actual data, as any outright fraud on the part of Cowan.

IMHO the damage could have been reduced if they had taken prompt action after Northern Rock/Lehmans etc to identify the real state of the Irish banking sector, with real data then it might have been clearer to have a more limited guarantee.

Lehman's only happened two weeks beforehand. Maybe you meant Bear Stearns? After that event, they spent most of their time and energy trying to stop Sean Quinn's gambling from pulling Anglo down afaik.

I may have got my timelines mixed up. The point being that the storm was on the horizon but nothing much was done to prepare for it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 27, 2015, 05:56:53 PM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

The point was that through the incompetence of the Regulator they didn't really know in what state the banks were and the banks lied to them pure and simple. The guarantee was made from a position of pure ignorance, both of economic theory and of actual data, as any outright fraud on the part of Cowan.

IMHO the damage could have been reduced if they had taken prompt action after Northern Rock/Lehmans etc to identify the real state of the Irish banking sector, with real data then it might have been clearer to have a more limited guarantee.

Lehman's only happened two weeks beforehand. Maybe you meant Bear Stearns? After that event, they spent most of their time and energy trying to stop Sean Quinn's gambling from pulling Anglo down afaik.

I may have got my timelines mixed up. The point being that the storm was on the horizon but nothing much was done to prepare for it.

Northern Rock was well beforehand so I agree. Bear Stearns was 6 months before but as I said, they seemed to be caught up with Quinn and Anglo rather than looking at the wider system.

It is great that the enquiries each find no one did anything wrong. Imagine how bad it could have been if they f*cked up!
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Hound on May 28, 2015, 10:04:13 AM
Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

You've split the first point into two separate issues.
- Corruption/croneyism - where more of them should have gone to jail, or personally I think hitting them in the pocket would hurt them more, as that was their motivation. Hit them hard with fines and penalties and take away their govt pensions

- In running the economy, they absolutely did no different than any other party would have done. Never once did an opposition TD respond after a budget saying, we should increase taxes and/or reduce spending - in fact to a man/woman I'd say they all said the oppositive - you could have reduced more taxes, you could have spent more.

The only two "outside of the box" policies they came up with (that I can think of) were the National Pension Reserve Fund and the Decentralisation. NPRF was a good idea that was met with more groans than applause, but at least they stuck with it and pushed it through.

Decentralisation was a great idea to try and avoid the boom being too Dublin-centric. Things wouldnt have got quite so bad in provincial towns up and down the country if they'd had the backbone to go against the unions (and every other political party who rowed in with the unions) and implement it.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: Rossfan on May 28, 2015, 11:00:17 AM
I knew some one would get around to blaming " the unions".
If we could only abolish them.........what a great place Ireland would be ::)
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2015, 11:13:47 AM

You've split the first point into two separate issues.
- Corruption/croneyism - where more of them should have gone to jail, or personally I think hitting them in the pocket would hurt them more, as that was their motivation. Hit them hard with fines and penalties and take away their govt pensions

- In running the economy, they absolutely did no different than any other party would have done. Never once did an opposition TD respond after a budget saying, we should increase taxes and/or reduce spending - in fact to a man/woman I'd say they all said the oppositive - you could have reduced more taxes, you could have spent more.

The only two "outside of the box" policies they came up with (that I can think of) were the National Pension Reserve Fund and the Decentralisation. NPRF was a good idea that was met with more groans than applause, but at least they stuck with it and pushed it through.

Decentralisation was a great idea to try and avoid the boom being too Dublin-centric. Things wouldnt have got quite so bad in provincial towns up and down the country if they'd had the backbone to go against the unions (and every other political party who rowed in with the unions) and implement it.

I think that McCreevey had half a clue, he was an accountant and had some sort of a head for the numbers, but Aherne had none (on economics). The NPRF was an attempt to put something away in the good times and the Special Savings accounts an attempt to get people to put something away and this was a good thing in general. 

Decentralisation wasn't well implemented, it was spread too thinly and to a large extent it just drove up mileage expenses.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: muppet on May 28, 2015, 11:27:21 AM

You've split the first point into two separate issues.
- Corruption/croneyism - where more of them should have gone to jail, or personally I think hitting them in the pocket would hurt them more, as that was their motivation. Hit them hard with fines and penalties and take away their govt pensions

- In running the economy, they absolutely did no different than any other party would have done. Never once did an opposition TD respond after a budget saying, we should increase taxes and/or reduce spending - in fact to a man/woman I'd say they all said the oppositive - you could have reduced more taxes, you could have spent more.

The only two "outside of the box" policies they came up with (that I can think of) were the National Pension Reserve Fund and the Decentralisation. NPRF was a good idea that was met with more groans than applause, but at least they stuck with it and pushed it through.

Decentralisation was a great idea to try and avoid the boom being too Dublin-centric. Things wouldnt have got quite so bad in provincial towns up and down the country if they'd had the backbone to go against the unions (and every other political party who rowed in with the unions) and implement it.

I think that McCreevey had half a clue, he was an accountant and had some sort of a head for the numbers, but Aherne had none (on economics). The NPRF was an attempt to put something away in the good times and the Special Savings accounts an attempt to get people to put something away and this was a good thing in general. 

Decentralisation wasn't well implemented, it was spread too thinly and to a large extent it just drove up mileage expenses.

I didn't like McCreevy but he was responsible for:

* Reducing the Corporate tax rate which is was an undoubted success whatever misgivings I might have
* National Pension Reserve Fund
* Fought for a single body (Central Bank) to provide oversight for the financial sector - Bertie split it on Harney's insistence with disastrous consequences.
* Decentralisation as mentioned by Hound above

As regards the unions. They do a lot of good work at ordinary worker level. Their main function is to protect jobs, advise employees of their rights and ensure fair rates of pay. Somehow that morphed into dictating national policy and taking as many seats on Qangos as possible. We had union leaders on the Board of Central Bank and as head of Fás. WFT? The unions need to get back to basics imho.
Title: Re: Will you vote for Fianna Fail?
Post by: macdanger2 on May 28, 2015, 12:18:26 PM
- In running the economy, they absolutely did no different than any other party would have done. Never once did an opposition TD respond after a budget saying, we should increase taxes and/or reduce spending - in fact to a man/woman I'd say they all said the oppositive - you could have reduced more taxes, you could have spent more.