What's gone wrong with Roscommon Senior Team?

[Shrewdness]

Roscommon's decline into a Division 4 team highlights a serious problem rampant in Roscommon football at the moment.
The remarkable thing is, that when our seniors were competitive at a much higher level, our underage teams were hopeless and were often whipping boys for Galway and Mayo.
Now the roles have been completely reversed. After our minors won the All Ireland in 2006, our subsequent minor teams have been very competitive in Connacht, more than holding their own.

Our Under 21's have just ended an 11 year drought by winning the Connacht title.

Yet whilst this has been going on, our seniors have been in freefall. Why

A look at our record in the National League since Fergal O'Donnell took over, shows just 4 league wins in 14 games, spread over the last 2 leagues. Add in the annihilation at the hands of Mayo in last year's championship, and it proves beyond doubt, that if anything, things have got worse since he took over from John Maughan.

If Roscommon don't show a competitive streak in this year's Connacht championship, will it be a case of 'taxi for O'Donnell'?

A lot of people suggest that we have a lot of good young players coming through, who will see us a force again in 2 or 3 years time. But will they really?

If they were coming onto a decent team like Mayo etc, they would blend in and find their feet in time.
But in Roscommon, they are stepping onto the sinking ship that is the Roscommon Senior set up, and i fear it will be too much of a burden on them, in a negative environment.

[ross4life]

The remarkable thing is, that when our seniors were competitive at a much higher level, our underage teams were hopeless and were often whipping boys for Galway and Mayo.

That's your Reason there & those underage players are now our senior players ^^^^^^

& you can't expect us Rossies to be at the same level as Mayo & Galway we quiet simply don't have the pick

Getting Relegated to Division 4 may be a blessing in disguise as we need more time to gel a proper team together by winning games

the youth system has been in place for 5/6 years now all the way down to under 16s & you should see the Rewards in senior level in years to come, if you look over the History we come and go as a good team & we will Return again

but before then it going to take alot of PATIENCE from us loyal rossies

[Shrewdness]

We have been dogged with injuries and withdrawals by the likes of Cox, O'Neill and young Conor Devaney, who has still made the time to play soccer, but that's his choice in fairness.

[IolarCoisCuain]

No-one was ever thanked for sticking their snout into someone else's family business so if I get the head taken off me for this I'll take down the post and save my breath for cooling my porridge. But as a Mayoman I miss Roscommon from my summers, and I'm sorry to see them down.

My own guess about how far Roscommon have fallen is that they never got over being hosed in 2001. They had an epic win over Galway in Tuam in 2001, a win on which summer campaigns were based in the past, but then ended up playing Galway again in the quarter final in Castlebar and lost.

Roscommon haven't won anything at senior level since. At all. An overtime win over Offaly a few years ago in some qualifier was as good as it got, if I'm not forgetting something.

They system were you could play a team you'd beaten was changed because it was blatantly unfair, but Roscommon haven't been the same since. They are the great victims of the backdoor. What happened them in 2001 is forgotten about, for two reasons.

Firstly, they were never chic the way Cork are chic, in that whenever Cork are in bad luck we hear shouted from the rooftops. When Roscommon get boned, well, it's piss off bogger, isn't it? I personally reckon one of the reasons the back door was introduced is because Cork reckoned they'd win All-Irelands if they didn't have to play Kerry. They certainly get further now, but the plan hasn't quite come off for them.

The second reason is that Roscommon were supposedly ungracious when they won in 2001, and this cost them sympathy. I don't know about that one way or another but Seán Óg de Paor mentions it in his autobiography and it's about the only dig he gets in. But whatever sin they committed wasn't worth the punishment inflicted. It's awful to see Roscommon and what's happened them.

Roscommon's constant heart was broken by 2001. A major indiscipline crept into the panel after that, as players started wondering if it was worth it to break your nuts in winter football to get turned over and laughed at by Galway. I think it really got them, and it all came to a head then in that infamous weekend away. It's years ago now, but people still mention it. That's why Maughan was hired. I've yet to meet a Rossie who doesn't turn into a spitting divil at the mention of John Maughan's name, but the only reason Maughan was brought in was to get rid of the boozers.

Problem was the boozers were the best players. I was at the Roscommon semi-finals last year and the best player out of sixty on show, to my amateur eye, was one of the chief booze-hounds. Rock and a hard place.

There's a lot of old yak in the media about how great it is for the weaker counties to have more than one game in the Championship. But nobody ever legislates for the weaker counties – that's why they stay weak. All this chat about helping out weaker counties is nonsense. The backdoor has only ever been about money and protecting the strong.

One of the reasons that Roscommon have their tradition is because even though they didn't come out of Connacht as often as Mayo or Galway, they punched their weight. They didn't blow up in Croker the way Mayo do. But now they're destroyed because they extra day out in Aughrim or Dungarvan doesn't mean buggery to a county that see themselves facing Kerry on the third Sunday, as they have done in their past.

Roscommon were hosed by the backdoor system. Maybe that's another reason why Leinster is so cat at the moment too. Maybe something could have happened for Westmeath or Laois when they won their Leinsters if the title meant they were only two games away instead of three.

Maybe Waterford could have won an All-Ireland in hurling like Clare did in the 90s, or Offaly in the 80s if it comes to that – would either of those victories have happened in a back door system that "protects weaker counties"?

I don't know. But I'm sorry to the see Ross down, and I hope they can come back. There's an assumption traditions will always stay alive, but it's not true. Ask Cavan.

I doubt this cheered you up Shrewdness, but it's my best guess for what happened the Ross.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Another Mayo perspective - sorry lads! 

I think this is fair comment though...

10 years + of rubbish underage teams leaves Roscommon with what they have now. No players of a particularly high standard over 21 or 22 years old. I think that a failure to realise and accept this has contributed though. When it all went to hell from 2003/04 onwards, the locals decided that the blame was with the outsiders in the camp rather than a lack of ability on their own players' part. So, to solve the problem they got rid of Carr, then Maughan, which made them feel better but made the team worse.

Then after the 2006 minor win they threw O'Donnell into the line of fire when a stint with the 21s would have surely been a better option. He tried to bring in the young lads, but did it too soon (to be fair he didn't have much choice) and the Armagh/Mayo/Cavan type beatings happened. There could be more to come. This years options could well be

1) Humiliation against London,
2) Humiliation against a fairly crap Leitrim team, or
3) A walloping off Galway, Mayo or Sligo in the Connacht Final.

If they can avoid all of those three posibilities then 2010 won't have been too bad a year. Even if one of the above occurs, its pointless punting O'Donnell, that would just be yet more ostrich head in the sand stuff.

The future is probably a bit brighter with the young lads coming through. Probably 2012 before it starts to kick in. The problem, as Shrewdness pointed out, is that other teams have quality experienced players and are just looking to stick in 4 or 5 young lads at most to improve the team. Roscommon need a whole team and there's no good older heads to carry them when things get tough.

Also, it's unfair to expect miracles from one under 21 team. Mayo's current team is made up of a group that won 5 Connacht under 21s in 6 years, got to two All Irelands and beat an outstanding Cork team to win one of them. And some decent older heads like Dillon and Trevor Mort as well. And even then you'd probably only rank Mayo 4th or 5th in the country at best. And generally only 2 or 3 players from any minor team will eventually become established inter county players, if more from the 2006 team do, it'll probably be because players who aren't genuine inter county standard are still making the team.

And then you've got Nixon salivating over the one genuinely talented player they do have coming through...

I still think they'll improve though, probably get back to Division 2 in a few years and be able to become at least somewhat competitive within Connacht. Longer term they just need to hope that by the time these lads become the old heads, there'll be another crop coming through that can take them to the next level.

[ross4life]

yes we can't afford to be without key players from the panel, Mannion & Keenan have just returned we could do with senan kilbride back for the championship, Devaney is strange one (college commitments) even though he's finished in May?

We badly need someone to field the ball in midfield as we are getting cleaned out every game & fergie has tried everyone there at this Stage

lack of leaders is a big worry too! pre Maughan we had loads but they were all booted out

can't blame Fergie for what's going on now as he was given a sinking ship & i always felt O Donnell should have got the 21 job instead of the mess that is the senior setup

[heffo]

Whats the feeling among the Ross posters about Maughans removal of the few lads who were among the best players but had a reputation for indiscipline and/or creating a bad atmosphere?

[Rossfan]

...

10 years + of rubbish underage teams leaves Roscommon with what they have now. No players of a particularly high standard over 21 or 22 years old.
Then after the 2006 minor win they threw O'Donnell into the line of fire when a stint with the 21s would have surely been a better option.

100% right and my sentiments exactly.
I think Fergie needs to go for broke at this stage and basically ask himself who if anyone over 22 should remain for the championship.
I can only think of 4.
Then go with his own lads from 2006.

[ross4life]

Whats the feeling among the Ross posters about Maughans removal of the few lads who were among the best players but had a reputation for indiscipline and/or creating a bad atmosphere?

They needed to be disciplined but Removing those players left a huge void in the small panel we had
another thing about Maughan is i never felt he gave 100% commitment to the cause, one Championship win in his time was shocking poor (one point win over london) & when he was with us he was seen at more Mayo clubs game than Roscommon ones

Even Fergie managed two win last year 

[Rossfan]

Maugh tan wasnt the manager when we played London in 2005.
Francie,Cake and company should have been spoken to by the new management in late 05  to see if they wanted to be part of the new "disciplined" regime and bring them on board to see how they'd have gone.
Then if they fecked about the management would have had the high moral ground when running them.
Instead they created division right away by not even telling them they were gone !!!
My worry about the present management is  the fact that Devaney,Gleeson and Shaq were unable to commit while Cox left the panel very quick when he  had an injury.
Sounds awful like bucks with no confidence in the management.
However the difference between Fergie and the likes of Tan and Tommy Truck is that FO'D is not a paid mercenary.

[ross4life]

i keep getting Carr's last year with Maugh tiime mixed up 

so we won no championship games under maughan then?

[moysider]

The remarkable thing is, that when our seniors were competitive at a much higher level, our underage teams were hopeless and were often whipping boys for Galway and Mayo.

That's your Reason there & those underage players are now our senior players ^^^^^^

& you can't expect us Rossies to be at the same level as Mayo & Galway we quiet simply don't have the pick

Getting Relegated to Division 4 may be a blessing in disguise as we need more time to gel a proper team together by winning games

the youth system has been in place for 5/6 years now all the way down to under 16s & you should see the Rewards in senior level in years to come, if you look over the History we come and go as a good team & we will Return again

but before then it going to take alot of PATIENCE from us loyal rossies

Not sure about this. I ve looked at the history. Between 1951 and 2001 Roscommon won the same amount of Connacht championships as Mayo. A dozen each. Mayo s large no. of titles mostly down to early decades of 20 th century. We ve won 3 since 2001. That is a significant year in lots of ways both for Roscommon and Mayo. Iolar CoisCuain made a lot of sense to me.
I remember well those Galway/Ros games in 01. I was in both Tuam and Castlebar. Ros were brilliant in Tuam and some Galway players looked retired by half time. By the Castlebar game Galway had rejigged it and were flowing and Roscommon looked tight and uncomfortable. They were being asked to go back to go forward. To beat Galway and Mayo and er ...well sorry lads you have to beat Galway again. That would tighten any team.
I dont often feel sorry for any Roscommon person but I found it hard not to feel sorry for Ros fans after the second game. I remember one young Ros lad gettin a bad doin from a couple of herring chokers. His pointed out to his baiters that 'at least we re Connacht champions' The Galways sniggered and one roared after him, ' well its not worth a shite to ye now is it?'
I think that it is significant that it s about 12 years since Roscommon CBS had a serious team. Nowadays they dont make much of an impression in B. Thats not a good sign. It d make you wonder how Ros have had such decent minor and U21 teams last few years.

[Cosmo Kramer]

i keep getting Carr's last year with Maugh tiime mixed up 

so we won no championship games under maughan then?

Did you not beat NY under Maughan?

[ross4life]

i keep getting Carr's last year with Maugh tiime mixed up 

so we won no championship games under maughan then?

Did you not beat NY under Maughan?

Correct but we won our first championship match on irish soil last year for the first time since 2004

[moysider]

i keep getting Carr's last year with Maugh tiime mixed up 

so we won no championship games under maughan then?

Did you not beat NY under Maughan?

Correct but we won our first championship match on irish soil last year for the first time since 2004

Have the managers been the problem? Who are we talking about last 10 years? Who was in charge in 01? Was it Tobin?
Who else has there been recently? Was Val not there a while? Carr and Maughan I know for def were. That s a fair ould splattering. And they were asked to do the job by somebody or other. How come the local lads were overlooked for the mercenaries?
Before Fergie the last native management I remember was Sheerin. I remember Tony Mac was with him as well. That was 99.