What's gone wrong with Roscommon Senior Team?

[ross matt]

I think it's going to be a serious job to blend young players into a poor senior team. A crucial stage in player development is the Sigerson Cup. Ros players achieving at this grade will be vital, Donie Shine was involved with DCU wasn't he?

A few of the big players over the last decade did not play at Sigerson level (e.g. O'Neill, Grehan, Dineen and Franke Dolan (apologies if I got names wrong)) and I think this lack of coaching and development showed against better teams. O'Neill is a classic example, with better coaching etc he could have developed into an All-Star mid-fielder and maybe a third level institution was the place to have got it. Dineen and Dolan had all the skills necessary but did not have the work ethic. This work ethic could have been honed playing at third level with guys who are winning all-irelands with Tyrone or Kerry. Instead they were big fish in the small pond of Roscommon where winnig All-Irelands was not necessary to be "the man" in Rockfords.

Poor basic skill level of players being selected at county level was also an issue. Take the full-back position, a position where Roscommon have produced some of the best in the business, the last of whom was Pat Doory. Some who have come since include Ronan Owens, slow as a cart horse and criminally exposed by Leitrim in 2000,and John White, completely lacking in phyicality and criminally exposed by Cavan in 2002. Others such as John Nolan and Damien Donlon have filled in and were wing backs by trade.....and we haven't got on to the really bad years yet. The point being that the extent of the problem in Ros goes back to the mid nineties and was papered over until 2005 and thereabouts.

The underage improvement will eventually filter through but it could take a few years. At least players coming through will have a higher skill level and will hopefully have a winning mentality from Ros underage and their respective third level teams. There is no guarentee of sucess but at least the ground work is being done.

The lack of a second level nursery is a massive issue also. Boarding school is less popular now and many Ros players would have attended Jarlaths, Mel's and Carmelite Moate over the years and this is not an option anymore. Ros CBS haven't done anything since Gerry Lohan's one man show against Colman's Newry in 1998 and this needs to be looked at by the county board in terms of providing support etc.

As for Fergal he can have the job for as long as he wants in my view, maybe the winning mentality can be developed in Div 4 and Sligo and Antrim have shon that you can go up as quick as you can go down. Bear in mind it's the same as a poor finish in the old Div 2 B.

up ros!
beard

Class post beard. Hits it on the nail.

[Shrewdness]

Can i ask for views on Cathal Cregg?...Has he fulfilled the potential we all thought he had 2/3 years ago?......Is he being wasted at centre half back, and should he be in the forwards?

[Rossfan]

Can i ask for views on Cathal Cregg?...Has he fulfilled the potential we all thought he had 2/3 years ago?......Is he being wasted at centre half back, and should he be in the forwards?

Yes
No
yes
yes

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I think it's going to be a serious job to blend young players into a poor senior team. A crucial stage in player development is the Sigerson Cup. Ros players achieving at this grade will be vital, Donie Shine was involved with DCU wasn't he?

A few of the big players over the last decade did not play at Sigerson level (e.g. O'Neill, Grehan, Dineen and Franke Dolan (apologies if I got names wrong)) and I think this lack of coaching and development showed against better teams. O'Neill is a classic example, with better coaching etc he could have developed into an All-Star mid-fielder and maybe a third level institution was the place to have got it. Dineen and Dolan had all the skills necessary but did not have the work ethic. This work ethic could have been honed playing at third level with guys who are winning all-irelands with Tyrone or Kerry. Instead they were big fish in the small pond of Roscommon where winnig All-Irelands was not necessary to be "the man" in Rockfords.

Poor basic skill level of players being selected at county level was also an issue. Take the full-back position, a position where Roscommon have produced some of the best in the business, the last of whom was Pat Doory. Some who have come since include Ronan Owens, slow as a cart horse and criminally exposed by Leitrim in 2000,and John White, completely lacking in phyicality and criminally exposed by Cavan in 2002. Others such as John Nolan and Damien Donlon have filled in and were wing backs by trade.....and we haven't got on to the really bad years yet. The point being that the extent of the problem in Ros goes back to the mid nineties and was papered over until 2005 and thereabouts.

The underage improvement will eventually filter through but it could take a few years. At least players coming through will have a higher skill level and will hopefully have a winning mentality from Ros underage and their respective third level teams. There is no guarentee of sucess but at least the ground work is being done.

The lack of a second level nursery is a massive issue also. Boarding school is less popular now and many Ros players would have attended Jarlaths, Mel's and Carmelite Moate over the years and this is not an option anymore. Ros CBS haven't done anything since Gerry Lohan's one man show against Colman's Newry in 1998 and this needs to be looked at by the county board in terms of providing support etc.

As for Fergal he can have the job for as long as he wants in my view, maybe the winning mentality can be developed in Div 4 and Sligo and Antrim have shon that you can go up as quick as you can go down. Bear in mind it's the same as a poor finish in the old Div 2 B.

up ros!
beard

Class post beard. Hits it on the nail.

great insight, tnx

[antoinse]

Maybe it is time to take a harsh look at themselves. Blame themselves unlike the referee they blamed at half time tonight. Listening to the commentary tonight and foir many times over the past year and the commentator and co-commentator refuses to see anything other than their own colours. The sun is not shining on them at the moment but rather than apportion blame they should look at themselves in a critical way and ask what is best for them going forward. Self analysis and critical self analysis from the top down is to be noted and seriously acted on - not paying it lip service.

[boojangles]

Its amazing as I read through the last 3 pages, the paralells Roscommon football has with Cavan.

Great tradition
Football mad county
2001 was a pivotal year for both counties
Managers have come and go
We'v washed our dirty linen in public
Big discipline problems with some of our best footballers
On our day we can match the best but those days are rare

Roscommon has a lot going for it with 2 winning underage teams to build upon, something which Cavan have not. Cavan have been competitive in Ulster at Underage for as long as I can remember,contesting 3 U-21 Ulster finals in the last 8 years and basically holding our own in Ulster but its crossing the finish line is what we need to do. Roscommon have done that twice in Connacht in the last 4 years so do not despair. Keep the faith.

[Farrandeelin]

Is Michael Finneran up for it at midfield for Roscommon? I personally don't think so but I'm asking Rossies for their opinions on this one.

[ross4life]

Is Michael Finneran up for it at midfield for Roscommon? I personally don't think so but I'm asking Rossies for their opinions on this one.

Short answer no...

he's found wanting when he comes up against a good midfielder! Mannion & Shine looks to be our best option at midfield at the moment

[larryin89]

Just came across this thread , now although I'm not a lover of the Rossie.

I am sincerely posting about where yer progress is at now , a few posts in here were predicting things like 2012 as the year they thought Roscommon would start to see the benefits of good underage teams, 2010 was a provincial victory but a hollow one if ye were to be truthful.Is it working,is it going to work?

Is there a timeframe on projects like this, there has been a massive effort put in for underage success in Ross the last ten years or so and a fantastic victory in 06 taking the big prize at minor level but at what stage do you admit it has not worked in achieving its objective as in bringing it onto senior level.

06 minors are now around 25/26 for next years championship are these boyos looking at ending their days in a few years time having never beaten Mayo or Galway even?

[Syferus]

Jaysus, you were fairly trawling the depths to dig this one up. Unbelievable that no one revisited this one up in July 2010.

The omens are good if this boyo is back on the first page.

[Gold]

f**k them and their umbrellas 

[Rossfan]

Now that for the first time since 2010 our manager has had a full "pre season" we'll see where we really are or are going.
I expect some serious culling by the end of the NFL as a leaner meaner squad is produced.
A good 2014 would be promotion, bate Laythrum and put it up to Mayowr and should we lose that then to reach Round 4 of the Qualifiers.
We'll need to be more clinical in front of the posts so that if we get 4 or 5 chances in the last 5 minutes, like we did v Tyrone in 2013, that we'll be scoring 4 of them at least.
Can all that be done?
We live by Faith and Hope. (Not much Charity out there in GAAland)

[ross4life]

Deep rooted interest in the Rossies you have Larry, searching through the old threads at 1am in the morning to find something about us only to ask a question you more less already asked in June.

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

[ross4life]

Is Michael Finneran up for it at midfield for Roscommon? I personally don't think so but I'm asking Rossies for their opinions on this one.

Short answer no...

he's found wanting when he comes up against a good midfielder! Mannion & Shine looks to be our best option at midfield at the moment

Hmm since that post big Mike has really stood up & more than held his own against some of the best midfielders around hes arguably one of our most important players now though saying that our midfield options are much improved from three years ago.

Maybe i should be more critical of our individuals from now on.

[Syferus]

Is Michael Finneran up for it at midfield for Roscommon? I personally don't think so but I'm asking Rossies for their opinions on this one.

Short answer no...

he's found wanting when he comes up against a good midfielder! Mannion & Shine looks to be our best option at midfield at the moment

Hmm since that post big Mike has really stood up & more than held his own against some of the best midfielders around hes arguably one of our most important players now though saying that our midfield options are much improved from three years ago.

Maybe i should be more critical of our individuals from now on.

Think Mike will be going well to still be a starting midfielder by the end of 2014. Technically speaking he isn't even one entering 2014 either as Cathal and Mango started the Tyrone game.

Cathal Shine has already shown something and needs more game-time, Thomas Corcoran is probably assured his senior debut in 2014 and Mango is going to be involved too. The problem with Mike is that he's not physical enough, his body-shape needs to show significant change this off-season - he puts in all the effort you could ever ask for from a player on the field, if he does it off the field too he still has a future.