What's gone wrong with Roscommon Senior Team?

[Turlough O Carolan]

Roscommon supporters need to be patient. Reality is that Ros was not competitive at U21 level in Connacht until 2008 - as recently as 2007, Ros suffered a ferocious hammering in Castlebar at U21 and now three years later are preparing for an All-Ireland semi-final, and while underdogs are not without a chance. And this is not even the 06 minor team, who were very unlucky last year. O'Donnell too needs to be given time. He took the senior reigns when no one else wanted them. He's learning his trade at this grade and let him. He owes Roscommon football absolutely nothing - as a player he gave everything for the cause and performed something of a miracle in bringing a minor All-Ireland to the county, given our record at minor up until then, and given the low morale in the county. Club football has been poor in Ros for many years, despite Bridgit's winning a Connacht title a few years ago. The standout players are usually former senior stars a stone heavier in their mid thirties, or the young lads coming through. You are essentially taking 2012 before the next generation start bringing respectability to Ros senior football again. We've been describing every year as an annus horribilis for the last decade. There may be one or two more at senior but that too will change.

[irunthev]

i keep getting Carr's last year with Maugh tiime mixed up 

so we won no championship games under maughan then?

Val Daly was actually in charge in 2005 when they played London. He stepped into the breach when Carr stepped down. By the time that London played Roscommon a few months later in the TM Cup I think it was Shine who was in charge and the team that payed London that day was basically the U-21 team. I stand to be corrected on Shine but Daly was in charge against London. I think he had been the forwards coach under Carr.

[ross matt]

Good to see intelligent analysis from outside the county. Probably a reflection of how far we've fallen when they have'nt the heart to slag us anymore.

Not in touch with scene at home as much as I used to be but think blaming the back door draw v Galway (however unfair it may have been) is overly simplistic. Certainly it contributed to an element of cynicism at the time amongst players and supporters and because it was the first year of the back door there was an element of the provincial title being tarnished by the heavy defeat in the quarter final with Galway having the last laugh by going on to win Sam. However it was a testament to their mental strength that they lost the league final to Mayo that year followed by the championship match to us and yet managed to regroup to win the ultimate prize. Contrast that with how we appeared to throw in the towel once the quarterfinal draw was made.

However it should be pointed out that we had an excellent league campaign in 2002 beating kerry, Galway etc before losing a high scoring semi to Cavan. Under Carr we went through the back door in 2003 beating Cork, Offaly (after extra time), Kildare (after extra time) & lost to the Kingdom in the AI quarterfinal but managed to score 3 goals and finish strongly. So it's inaccurate to say the 01 quarterfinal was the last time we played decent football.

Personally I think the mistake was allowing John Tobin to leave. We were playing an excellent brand of tough tackling but direct high scoring football under him. He was able to get the most out of the talented but indisciplined star players at the time which at the end of the day is waht good management is all about. The county board were guilty of washing the dirty linen in public rather than handling it internally like the strong counties do.  Carr and Maughan were deliberately brought in for their so called discliplined management approach. Carr as is his style was honest and brought organisation with little flair. Maughan was an immense disappointment. Never had his eyey on the ball. Hogged the media and then sought to blame a small fraction of abusive supporters tfor his exit as he knew full well the writing was on the door.

Unfortunately by then he had thrown many successful under age players in to the fray as cannon fodder rather than harness some of the older individuals who were then only in their late 20s or early 30s. The huge margin of defeats they were subjected to would have set their development bacl alot. Add in the bad vibes of financial scandals etc and the pride of wearing the primrose and blue as epitomised by the likes of Earley and mcmanus etc would have been greatly diminished.

These are the pieces that Fergal O'Donnell is now attempting to pick up. With his 06 minor titl he could have taken on a much more attractive position at intercounty or elite club surely. But having captained his county to the 01 connaught victory he has opted to step in to the mess which is not of his making due in most part to total loyalty to his county out of a sense of duty. Anyone that knows him personally would know this. He's also a very intelligent thinker who is not afraid to take risks. Things have to hit rock bottom before they can get better. Its also worth noting that most of the matches lost in div 3 this year were from a very narrow margin with bad luck being a major factor. From 06 to now the county have been either succussful or competitive in minor and u-21. Obviously there is talent coming through. But both westmeath and laois have had much more underage success with not alot of senior success to show for it in my opinion. The most ross can hope for is a return to being competitive in their own province and a decent run in the back door. Promotion to div2 in the league in the next few seasons should also be a goal. Very modest aspirations perhaps but realistic nonetheless.

Nobody will be aware of this more than Fergie. The least he deserves is to be given the time to overhaul and rebuild this mess. He's the only one with the ability and willingness to take it on.

[Lar Naparka]

Roscommon supporters need to be patient. Reality is that Ros was not competitive at U21 level in Connacht until 2008 - as recently as 2007, Ros suffered a ferocious hammering in Castlebar at U21 and now three years later are preparing for an All-Ireland semi-final, and while underdogs are not without a chance. And this is not even the 06 minor team, who were very unlucky last year. O'Donnell too needs to be given time. He took the senior reigns when no one else wanted them. He's learning his trade at this grade and let him. He owes Roscommon football absolutely nothing - as a player he gave everything for the cause and performed something of a miracle in bringing a minor All-Ireland to the county, given our record at minor up until then, and given the low morale in the county. Club football has been poor in Ros for many years, despite Bridgit's winning a Connacht title a few years ago. The standout players are usually former senior stars a stone heavier in their mid thirties, or the young lads coming through. You are essentially taking 2012 before the next generation start bringing respectability to Ros senior football again. We've been describing every year as an annus horribilis for the last decade. There may be one or two more at senior but that too will change.

I'd agree that O'Donnell owes you absolutely nothing and I think any fair minded individual would agree with that. It's hard to imagine anyone, within or without the county, who could do any better.
Wherever the revival is to come from, you have to look for it from within your county and I honestly believe you got to stick with your present manager. With the criticism he's getting from all sides, he couldn't be blamed for throwing in the towel if he chooses to do so. He was a wholehearted player and he deserves great credit for bucking the overall trend and winning the AI minor title in 2006.
As an outsider, I really haven't a clue as to what's really going on behind the scenes but somehow I feel it can't be all down to a lack of sufficient players of IC standard.
I think the rot set in around the time it was revealed your county board had financial problems—and that's putting it mildly!
Was that pure coincidence or are there ongoing tensions behind the scenes?

[Tubberman]

Roscommon supporters need to be patient. Reality is that Ros was not competitive at U21 level in Connacht until 2008 - as recently as 2007, Ros suffered a ferocious hammering in Castlebar at U21 and now three years later are preparing for an All-Ireland semi-final, and while underdogs are not without a chance. And this is not even the 06 minor team, who were very unlucky last year. O'Donnell too needs to be given time. He took the senior reigns when no one else wanted them. He's learning his trade at this grade and let him. He owes Roscommon football absolutely nothing - as a player he gave everything for the cause and performed something of a miracle in bringing a minor All-Ireland to the county, given our record at minor up until then, and given the low morale in the county. Club football has been poor in Ros for many years, despite Bridgit's winning a Connacht title a few years ago. The standout players are usually former senior stars a stone heavier in their mid thirties, or the young lads coming through. You are essentially taking 2012 before the next generation start bringing respectability to Ros senior football again. We've been describing every year as an annus horribilis for the last decade. There may be one or two more at senior but that too will change.

I'd agree that O'Donnell owes you absolutely nothing and I think any fair minded individual would agree with that. It's hard to imagine anyone, within or without the county, who could do any better.
Wherever the revival is to come from, you have to look for it from within your county and I honestly believe you got to stick with your present manager. With the criticism he's getting from all sides, he couldn't be blamed for throwing in the towel if he chooses to do so. He was a wholehearted player and he deserves great credit for bucking the overall trend and winning the AI minor title in 2006.
As an outsider, I really haven't a clue as to what's really going on behind the scenes but somehow I feel it can't be all down to a lack of sufficient players of IC standard.
I think the rot set in around the time it was revealed your county board had financial problems—and that's putting it mildly!
Was that pure coincidence or are there ongoing tensions behind the scenes?

I don't think he's getting much criticism at all really. Ros supporters, to their credit, are both realistic and patient enough to realise they are just not good enough at the moment, and that it isn't Fergal O'Donnell's fault.
The fact that Ros have had good underage sides since 2006 makes it a bit easier to accept the current situation, because there is light at the end of the tunnel.
It might not make Ros All-Ireland contenders, but if all concerned - co board, mgmt, players and supporters - keep the faith and continue put in the hard work and stick to the underage structures, it should at least make them competitive in Connacht again and restore the pride in the primrose and blue.

[Rudi]

Our problems started, with that guy in the hotel in Derry, who gave the media footage of players acting the b+llix. Our most talented players, who happened to be our best (both in terms of talent and leadership) were booted off the panel by Carrs mate Maughan. About 7 in all, a further 7 players left the panel as they felt isolated by the unrest, hence 14 players gone in the space of 2.5 years, a county with a small pick like Roscommon cant sustain a loss like that.
O Donnell done an excellent job at minor level and should have been left to enjoy life with his young family and not be forced into the poisoned chalice that is Ros senior football. Maughan done well with Mayo and Clare but made a serious error with Ros football, getting rid of the boozers, this is a case study in sports psychology for any budding new manager.

[rossie mad]

There has been ten thousand word thesis written about more simple questions

I firmly believe the players are not in the county and the club level is poor bar two or three clubs.
We have a situation where a club is playing in the intermediate league who are playing in the senior championship and they were nearly defeated by a small junior championship team who are also in the same league.
Its madness and the same league has a few second teams as well and other junior teams which makes the whole system a joke in my eyes.
I was telling this to mates of mine in galway and they cant understand it.
Senior championship sides should play senior league and the same for every level the whole way down.
What happens if the junior championship side wins the intermediate league and yet fail to win the junior championship?
They end up playing the best teams in the county for the best part of the following year before championship and probably get beaten well in every game.
This does the junior club nor the senior league any addition.

We dont have the pick of senior players at the moment and the standard of club games is poor more often than not.
Our leagues are treated like the plague and run off as quickly as possible so (a) the county team isnt distracted and (b) the bigger clubs can concentrate on the championship.

We have a situation in the county where the league will probably be finished come july but no league semi finals or finals will be played till october at the earliest absolutely crazy.
Yet the championship is run over three to four months and our inter county lads are usually out of the all ireland championship by july anyway.
Its crazy stuff.Our club players are not getiing tough championship club games early enough and by the time they do the all ireland championship is at semi final stage.

[Rossfan]

Some excellent posts here both from Ros and our neighbours but Rosmatt's probably the best.
Just for the record the Co Board was breaking down Fergal's door through August/Sept 2008 to get him to take the Senior job.
We can rake over the coals of Tobin/Naked Pool/Castlebar 01/Truck/Tan/Financials etc but where will it get us.?
Time to look forward....which means goodbye now to a lot of lads in mid 20s who just havent got it and use the 06 lads as a starting point for this year's Championship.
Add in those of the U21s who will be finished at that grade on hopefully 2nd May ( or 17th April  ) plus those 20yr olds who look like they could hold their own( Collins/Bannon/McDermott).
The future starts NOW !!! so let's get at it Rossies.

[Shrewdness]

A lot of very good replies to my original post, and fair play in particular to the Mayo posters, who are displaying an impressive knowledge of what's been going on in Roscommon.

[ross4life]

Well it fair to Connacht football needs a good Roscommon Team..........

[spectator]

Add in the annihilation at the hands of Mayo in last year's championship, and it proves beyond doubt, that if anything, things have got worse since he took over from John Maughan.

You over-egged the pudding there Shrewdness

As explained by the Rossies earlier, no one in Ros familiar with the scene is calling for a 'taxi' for Fergal.

A lot of very good replies to my original post, and fair play in particular to the Mayo posters, who are displaying an impressive knowledge of what's been going on in Roscommon.

True - some of the Mayo posters understand a good deal about what has gone on in Ros & are looking beyond the bare statistics

[Shrewdness]

Add in the annihilation at the hands of Mayo in last year's championship, and it proves beyond doubt, that if anything, things have got worse since he took over from John Maughan.

You over-egged the pudding there Shrewdness

As explained by the Rossies earlier, no one in Ros familiar with the scene is calling for a 'taxi' for Fergal.

A lot of very good replies to my original post, and fair play in particular to the Mayo posters, who are displaying an impressive knowledge of what's been going on in Roscommon.

True - some of the Mayo posters understand a good deal about what has gone on in Ros & are looking beyond the bare statistics

I didn't state that it was time for a taxi. I asked that if Ros weren't competitive in the Championship, will it then be a case of taxi for O'Donnell.

For instance, if London were to beat us in Ruislip, someone would need a bloody taxi.

[Beard]

I think it's going to be a serious job to blend young players into a poor senior team. A crucial stage in player development is the Sigerson Cup. Ros players achieving at this grade will be vital, Donie Shine was involved with DCU wasn't he?

A few of the big players over the last decade did not play at Sigerson level (e.g. O'Neill, Grehan, Dineen and Franke Dolan (apologies if I got names wrong)) and I think this lack of coaching and development showed against better teams. O'Neill is a classic example, with better coaching etc he could have developed into an All-Star mid-fielder and maybe a third level institution was the place to have got it. Dineen and Dolan had all the skills necessary but did not have the work ethic. This work ethic could have been honed playing at third level with guys who are winning all-irelands with Tyrone or Kerry. Instead they were big fish in the small pond of Roscommon where winnig All-Irelands was not necessary to be "the man" in Rockfords.

Poor basic skill level of players being selected at county level was also an issue. Take the full-back position, a position where Roscommon have produced some of the best in the business, the last of whom was Pat Doory. Some who have come since include Ronan Owens, slow as a cart horse and criminally exposed by Leitrim in 2000,and John White, completely lacking in phyicality and criminally exposed by Cavan in 2002. Others such as John Nolan and Damien Donlon have filled in and were wing backs by trade.....and we haven't got on to the really bad years yet. The point being that the extent of the problem in Ros goes back to the mid nineties and was papered over until 2005 and thereabouts.

The underage improvement will eventually filter through but it could take a few years. At least players coming through will have a higher skill level and will hopefully have a winning mentality from Ros underage and their respective third level teams. There is no guarentee of sucess but at least the ground work is being done.

The lack of a second level nursery is a massive issue also. Boarding school is less popular now and many Ros players would have attended Jarlaths, Mel's and Carmelite Moate over the years and this is not an option anymore. Ros CBS haven't done anything since Gerry Lohan's one man show against Colman's Newry in 1998 and this needs to be looked at by the county board in terms of providing support etc.

As for Fergal he can have the job for as long as he wants in my view, maybe the winning mentality can be developed in Div 4 and Sligo and Antrim have shon that you can go up as quick as you can go down. Bear in mind it's the same as a poor finish in the old Div 2 B.

up ros!
beard

[neilthemac]

to be fair to Gerry Lohan, the CBS had a good set of players out the field to get the ball to him and a few other handy players around him
and they had a good team in 1997 as well when they got to the B Final

the schools around Athlone have had their fair share of Roscommon players lately - Caommunity College and the Marist who have done well in the Leinster competitions

Garbally has never been a GAA hotbed for 20 years

Sigerson is such a crucial stage of development for top GAA players, especially the last 10 years - playing against good opposing players, honing the skills, developing strength, power and fitness and where a semi full time dedication to training is nurtured

[ross4life]

For what it's worth D.C.U. had a good few rossies on there panel  this year including neil collins, donie, ormsby, carty, keenan and cregg