Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Snapchap]

Good luck with that. You may start your own Party!

Republican - none of us are monarchists
Left - we're too well off (comparatively speaking) and we want to pay less tax not pay for extra "free stuff"
Principled- were talking politicians here🙄

All Ireland stuff - Good Friday Agreement has that sorted out/ put away for the moment.
We're in favour of a UI... but not just right now ...

You think Irish Republicanism, as a political idology, is about nothing more than not wanting a monarchy? Maybe for FF, that's as far as it goes/should go.

We're talking the 26 here.
All that holier than thou "Republican" stuff might mean something to one side in the 6 and some in the 5 border Counties of the 26.
To the rest of the population it's a quaint irrelevance.

You might have been. I was talking about the sort of party I would want to support. Nowhere did I say it was a 26 county one. I actually said is should be "All-Ireland in both ethos and structure".

I also just said such a party should be "republican". What's "holier than thou" about me just saying the word? Republicanism is as much about Irish reunification and independence as it is about not having a monarchy. If britain maintinging rule over a part of this island is a "quaint irrellevance" to you, then that's up to you. It might explain why you're such an avid FF fan.

[Rossfan]

Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?
The GFA which uses the term "Northern Ireland" how many times?

[In hiding]

Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?
The GFA which uses the term "Northern Ireland" how many times?

Don't know why I'm getting involved here but do you think Sinn Fein signed up to the GFA to solidify the 6 counties position in the United Kingdom....

Or are you just being disengenuious

[Snapchap]

Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?
The GFA which uses the term "Northern Ireland" how many times?

And? Doesn't it include a legal committment to hold a referendum on reunification? Or were you under the belief that the GFA is the end of the matter?

[Rossfan]

They signed up to it and all its terms.
The path to a re united Ireland is one of them terms.

Yer man was blathering about FF because I pointed out that most people in the 26 have no interest in the term republican as used by SFrs.

[Rossfan]

Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?
The GFA which uses the term "Northern Ireland" how many times?

And? Doesn't it include a legal committment to hold a referendum on reunification? Or were you under the belief that the GFA is the end of the matter?

Brit Secretary of State is the one who decides if/when there might be such a Referendum.
Unless/untill such a Referendum votes to leave the "UK" all parties signed up to "Northern Ireland remaining a part of the United Kingdome"

[Snapchap]

They signed up to it and all its terms.
The path to a re united Ireland is one of them terms.

Exactly. Making your "Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?" line a bit of a daft thing to come out with.

Yer man was blathering about FF because I pointed out that most people in the 26 have no interest in the term republican as used by SFrs.

Well I'm not a SFer. I thought that much was obvious from my posts today. I just said I'd want my ideal party to be "republican" (among other things). As I said, if you think Irish republicanism as a political ideology is about nothing more than being opposed to the idea of monarchy, and has nothing to do with wanting and end to British juridiction in Ireland, then maybe you need to sit out conversations about Irish politics.

[Snapchap]

Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?
The GFA which uses the term "Northern Ireland" how many times?

And? Doesn't it include a legal committment to hold a referendum on reunification? Or were you under the belief that the GFA is the end of the matter?

Brit Secretary of State is the one who decides if/when there might be such a Referendum.
Unless/untill such a Referendum votes to leave the "UK" all parties signed up to "Northern Ireland remaining a part of the United Kingdome"

So you DO think that the GFA is the end of the matter, and that SF no longer have ambitions for Irish unity since they signed up to it?

[Rossfan]

Don't know how you made that out.
Maybe Free State Resident bad, 6 Co nationalist resident good"??

[Snapchap]

What the absolute

Don't know how you made that out.
Maybe Free State Resident bad, 6 Co nationalist resident good"??

What are you talking about, seriously?

You asked "Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically)signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?" so if you're not trying to say that the GFA is the end of it all and that SF no longer have ambitions for Irish unity, then, without these nonsensical straw-man responses, maybe can you just tell us all what exactly you are trying to say?

[Rossfan]

I can't help if you're a bit dense.

[Snapchap]

I can't help if you're a bit dense.

Dense? You termed me a shinner in response to a series of posts from me where I explained the multitude of reasons why I don't support SF ffs. We could both just play the personal abuse game.

The alternative would be for you to man up and answer a straight question:

You asked "Did you miss the bit where Sinn Féin (enthusiatically) signed up to the GFA which maintains British rule over part of Ireland?" so if you're not trying to say that the GFA is the end of it all and that SF no longer have ambitions for Irish unity, can you just tell us all what exactly you are trying to say?

[JollyGreenGiant]

SF have been trying to be all things to all men. Under Mary Lou, they have been in a race to the centre ground and have been too keen to jetison many of their core republican, left principles. I've been wavering on them for a long time, and it was their shameful antics re Gaza and their visits to 'Genodice Joe' (and ridiculous excuses for the follwing year's u-turn on a White House visit) which put the final nail in the coffin for me as far as SF are concerned. My problem now is that there is no other party that is unshamedly republican, left, all-Ireland (in ethos as well as in structure), principled and well organised.

In reality, this is a product of their migration from a perma-opposition party to a potential party of Government. It's easy to be ideologically pure in opposition, as you don't have to take responsibility for the implementation of policy.

May be. Then again, maybe they were too short sighted to see that their trajectory was trending upwards sharply over the last few decades, and that Mary Lou and MO'N shouldnt have been trying to fix what wasn't broken. Cosying up to racists at home? And to genocidal US presidents in Washington? Remaining deatlhy silent in the face of statistics showing the deeply rooted sectarianism in policing in the north? Steadfastly refusing to stand up to/criticise the DUP until they get within 12 months of an election, and in the in between times, roll over and allow the DUP to run rings around them? It's becoming unreconginsable.

The left is fragmented down south. If you want pie in the sky then PBP are available. If you want a focus on social rights the SDs. Labour will have a loyal left vote (although it is diminishing), and the Greens will periodically pop up to scratch the middle class itch.

SF can't extend across all of this potential options without annoying somebody.

[Snapchap]

SF have been trying to be all things to all men. Under Mary Lou, they have been in a race to the centre ground and have been too keen to jetison many of their core republican, left principles. I've been wavering on them for a long time, and it was their shameful antics re Gaza and their visits to 'Genodice Joe' (and ridiculous excuses for the follwing year's u-turn on a White House visit) which put the final nail in the coffin for me as far as SF are concerned. My problem now is that there is no other party that is unshamedly republican, left, all-Ireland (in ethos as well as in structure), principled and well organised.

In reality, this is a product of their migration from a perma-opposition party to a potential party of Government. It's easy to be ideologically pure in opposition, as you don't have to take responsibility for the implementation of policy.

May be. Then again, maybe they were too short sighted to see that their trajectory was trending upwards sharply over the last few decades, and that Mary Lou and MO'N shouldnt have been trying to fix what wasn't broken. Cosying up to racists at home? And to genocidal US presidents in Washington? Remaining deatlhy silent in the face of statistics showing the deeply rooted sectarianism in policing in the north? Steadfastly refusing to stand up to/criticise the DUP until they get within 12 months of an election, and in the in between times, roll over and allow the DUP to run rings around them? It's becoming unreconginsable.

The left is fragmented down south. If you want pie in the sky then PBP are available. If you want a focus on social rights the SDs. Labour will have a loyal left vote (although it is diminishing), and the Greens will periodically pop up to scratch the middle class itch.

SF can't extend across all of this potential options without annoying somebody.

Indeed. No party is going to perfectly match your own views or please everyone. My point, personally speaking, is that up until recent years, SF was the party most closely aligned to my own thinking and had policies that brought them from almost nowhere, to the very brink of power in the 26 cos. It's only in recent years that they (needlessly if you ask me) attempted to fix what wasn't broken and made strident efforts to become more centrist; and since they made these changes, they are not reaping benefits (as perhaps you, and defeinitely they, calculated that they would) but rather, they appear to be gradually losing support on multiple fronts as a direct result.