Priest stuns congregation by resigning over affair.

[Puckoon]

Are they estranged because of this, or was that already something that had happened?

Theres a huge difference in Teacher-  pupil relationships, compared to this and your other example.

Hes a man. Its naive of the church to believe that these kinds of things wont ever happen. Infact - I dont believe that the church thinks it wont happen.

No there's not. The teacher, doctor and priest are all placed in a position of trust by virtue of their positions. They are expected not to use their influence over the vulnerable or impressionable. This is not a question over the Church's celibacy rules but a flagrant breach of trust by someone who should know better. If he was a doctor he'd be struck off and possibly fired if he was a teacher. What do they do in Derry, they give him a fecking standing ovation! Been watching too many Hollywood rom-coms up there - the man should have been hounded out of the parish.

You're absolutely wrong. If a Doctor has a relationship with a patient - while the patient is in care of the hospital - that is wrong.

Doctors and patients are quite free to see each other outside of the hospital setting.

Unless you're suggesting that this affair was going on "inside" the actual grounds of the church - these two are totally different.

Im actually dismayed at your stance on this.

"Flagrant breach of the rules by someone who should know better"?
This is a man who fell in love with someone. I am sure this man has done more soul searching about this than any of us can imagine

"He should be hounded out of the parish"?
Jesus H Christ - I assume you'd be outside his door with your pitchfork and lantern then? By all accounts - this is one of the good men out there. Its a shame that he isnt strong enough to be your kinda priest.

[Donagh]

You need to get a grip on reality Donagh, honestly.

Case closed then 

[muppet]

Did it not say she's seperated from the husband. While it may be a massive storm in an tea cup locally its no big deal. Man shags woman. The world hasnt ended. And in other news cat miaows.

He's a priest. His duty in such situations would be to provide pastoral care and guidance to the woman, not get her into bed.

Maybe he did give past oral care.

[Evil Genius]

No there's not. The teacher, doctor and priest are all placed in a position of trust by virtue of their positions. They are expected not to use their influence over the vulnerable or impressionable. This is not a question over the Church's celibacy rules but a flagrant breach of trust by someone who should know better. If he was a doctor he'd be struck off and possibly fired if he was a teacher. What do they do in Derry, they give him a fecking standing ovation! Been watching too many Hollywood rom-coms up there - the man should have been hounded out of the parish.

I've just read the original news report and there's nothing in it to indicate that the woman is even a Member of his congregation. She might have been a supermarket checkout operator, or someone he met on holiday, or even the local Prostitute. Hell, she might even have been a Protestant! 

Anyhow to be serious, all we know is that he is a Priest and she is a woman who was already married, but had separated. Consequently, all I would assume is that he probably did not break his vows and embark on such a course lightly and she is most likely not a vulnerable or impressionable "victim".

There are worse things in this world than falling in love; there are far  worse things in Derry! 

[Doogie Browser]

You need to get a grip on reality Donagh, honestly.

Case closed then 

I am happy enough with that, you have nothing constructive to offer to this discussion, your archaic views are the primary reason the Church is struggling in modern society yet you see yourself as a champion of the Catholic church.  You really do not have a clue on this one.

[Donagh]

You're absolutely wrong. If a Doctor has a relationship with a patient - while the patient is in care of the hospital - that is wrong.

Doctors and patients are quite free to see each other outside of the hospital setting.

Unless you're suggesting that this affair was going on "inside" the actual grounds of the church - these two are totally different.

"Flagrant breach of the rules by someone who should know better"?
This is a man who fell in love with someone. I am sure this man has done more soul searching about this than any of us can imagine

"He should be hounded out of the parish"?
Jesus H Christ - I assume you'd be outside his door with your pitchfork and lantern then? By all accounts - this is one of the good men out there. Its a shame that he isnt strong enough to be your kinda priest.

The man is a Catholic priest. She is a divorced/separated Catholic. As a divorced/separated person the woman is obviously in estranged or in difficulties with the Church. In those circumstances, the duty of the priest is to provide for her spiritual well-being and guide her in such a way so as she can reconcile herself with the Church. So just like the doctor/patient comparison, the priest has a clear duty in such circumstances and that duty is most definitely not to be shagging her.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

He's a priest. His duty in such situations would be to provide pastoral care and guidance to the woman, not get her into bed.

Of course you could be jumping to conclusions as much as Evil Genius (with his speculation on paternity).  I presume that you know for a fact that the woman was a signed-up catholic parishioner of his.   What evidence do you have that they met through his exercising any Church duties at all?   Maybe she is a protestant he met at his local bridge club?

Because my understanding is that he should not be administering sacraments (but maybe guidance) to a separated lady anyhow?  I say this because Bishop Willie Walsh spoke out against this policy on RTE last saturday: 

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1114/religion.html


And even if he was in dereliction of his duty, then surely resigning is the correct course of action?  Would he better confessing to the local bishop, covering it up and heading to Rome for reprogramming (ala Eamon Casey).

There are better ways for the catholic church to handle succession/inheritance rights than enforcing celibacy under the guise of something spiritual.  So rather than "sticking the boot in", I'd see it as constructive criticism.

/Jim.

[Donagh]

I am happy enough with that, you have nothing constructive to offer to this discussion, your archaic views are the primary reason the Church is struggling in modern society yet you see yourself as a champion of the Catholic church.  You really do not have a clue on this one.

So when someone disagrees with your cosy world-view you dismiss them as " nothing constructive" to offer. I have simply presented and opinion, it may not even be my personal opinion and all you can do is throw personal insults. Is that what passes for constructive debate of Gaaboard these days?

[Puckoon]

The man is a Catholic priest. She is a divorced/separated Catholic. As a divorced/separated person the woman is obviously in estranged or in difficulties with the Church. In those circumstances, the duty of the priest is to provide for her spiritual well-being and guide her in such a way so as she can reconcile herself with the Church. So just like the doctor/patient comparison, the priest has a clear duty in such circumstances and that duty is most definitely not to be shagging her.

Who says she's Estranged or in difficulties with the church?

Is this based upon the working assumption that once you are divorced the church asks you not to have communion? That the church thinks you are tainted in some way?

If so - how can you become reconciled with the church - if your estrangement from them is based solely on their stance on your divorce?

How is a priest supposed to change the churches stance on her divorce?

[Donagh]

Of course you could be jumping to conclusions as much as Evil Genius (with his speculation on paternity).  I presume that you know for a fact that the woman was a signed-up catholic parishioner of his.   What evidence do you have that they met through his exercising any Church duties at all?   Maybe she is a protestant he met at his local bridge club?

Because my understanding is that he should not be administering sacraments (but maybe guidance) to a separated lady anyhow?  I say this because Bishop Willie Walsh spoke out against this policy on RTE last saturday: 

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1114/religion.html
And even if he was in dereliction of his duty, then surely resigning is the correct course of action?  Would he better confessing to the local bishop, covering it up and heading to Rome for reprogramming (ala Eamon Casey).

There are better ways for the catholic church to handle succession/inheritance rights than enforcing celibacy under the guise of something spiritual.  So rather than "sticking the boot in", I'd see it as constructive criticism.

/Jim.

Just going on what I read in the paper Jim and yes I am making assumptions, just like everyone else on this thread. Of course he did the right thing by resigning, I don't disagree but that is the least that should be expected.

[Doogie Browser]

I am happy enough with that, you have nothing constructive to offer to this discussion, your archaic views are the primary reason the Church is struggling in modern society yet you see yourself as a champion of the Catholic church.  You really do not have a clue on this one.

So when someone disagrees with your cosy world-view you dismiss them as " nothing constructive" to offer. I have simply presented and opinion, it may not even be my personal opinion and all you can do is throw personal insults. Is that what passes for constructive debate of Gaaboard these days?

Constructive debate?  Do me a favour.

[Donagh]

Who says she's Estranged or in difficulties with the church?

She's Catholic and divorced/separated, so is obviously experiencing pastoral difficulties.

Is this based upon the working assumption that once you are divorced the church asks you not to have communion? That the church thinks you are tainted in some way?

No based on the assumption that the Church forbids divorce. I have no idea if that makes one "tainted".

If so - how can you become reconciled with the church - if your estrangement from them is based solely on their stance on your divorce?

No idea, you may have to ask a priest that one, or even a Catholic.

How is a priest supposed to change the churches stance on her divorce?

As above

[Donagh]

I am happy enough with that, you have nothing constructive to offer to this discussion, your archaic views are the primary reason the Church is struggling in modern society yet you see yourself as a champion of the Catholic church.  You really do not have a clue on this one.

So when someone disagrees with your cosy world-view you dismiss them as " nothing constructive" to offer. I have simply presented and opinion, it may not even be my personal opinion and all you can do is throw personal insults. Is that what passes for constructive debate of Gaaboard these days?

Constructive debate?  Do me a favour.

If you've nothing further to offer Doogie then you should avoid clicking that 'reply' button beside my posts.

[Doogie Browser]

I am happy enough with that, you have nothing constructive to offer to this discussion, your archaic views are the primary reason the Church is struggling in modern society yet you see yourself as a champion of the Catholic church.  You really do not have a clue on this one.

So when someone disagrees with your cosy world-view you dismiss them as " nothing constructive" to offer. I have simply presented and opinion, it may not even be my personal opinion and all you can do is throw personal insults. Is that what passes for constructive debate of Gaaboard these days?

Constructive debate?  Do me a favour.

If you've nothing further to offer Doogie then you should avoid clicking that 'reply' button beside my posts.

I think after your ramblings today you will find a lot of people following that advice Donagh, goodnight.

[Puckoon]

Who says she's Estranged or in difficulties with the church?

She's Catholic and divorced/separated, so is obviously experiencing pastoral difficulties.

Is this based upon the working assumption that once you are divorced the church asks you not to have communion? That the church thinks you are tainted in some way?

No based on the assumption that the Church forbids divorce. I have no idea if that makes one "tainted".

If so - how can you become reconciled with the church - if your estrangement from them is based solely on their stance on your divorce?

No idea, you may have to ask a priest that one, or even a Catholic.

How is a priest supposed to change the churches stance on her divorce?

As above

1. Large assumption
2. I am sure when your marriage falls apart - the fact that the archaic nature of the church "forbids" it - isnt the biggest thing on someones mind
3. Arent you a catholic? Even though your post seems to suggest that you dont believe that I am.
4. As above I guess.