Sen Edward Kennedy RIP

[muppet]

Tyrone's Own I live in Ireland, remember that country.

I never heard of Tony Snow and have little interest in US right versus uber-right bilateral politics (to think you they call it left and right  )

Kennedy gets an RIP from me for lots of reasons but the biggest is probably the ability to rise above tiny minds.

Asking me anything about what happened that famous night is as pointless as you pontificating about it. 

[J70]

In fairness TO, on your point about Tony Snow (whose name I doubt if most people here even recognize), every single time a political figure dies in the US, there are people on the opposite side of the aisle who always justify their bile by saying "remember what the left/right did when X died?" Those who are currently revelling in Kennedy's death will be the very ones who will be exhibiting your selctive amnesia and crying foul when the next major right wing figure dies and some idiots from the left start spewing rubbish. And vice versa.

[Tyrones own]

In fairness TO, on your point about Tony Snow (whose name I doubt if most people here even recognize), every single time a political figure dies in the US, there are people on the opposite side of the aisle who always justify their bile by saying "remember what the left/right did when X died?" Those who are currently revelling in Kennedy's death will be the very ones who will be exhibiting your selctive amnesia and crying foul when the next major right wing figure dies and some idiots from the left start spewing rubbish. And vice versa.

I'd agree with that and am in no way reveling in his death...merely astonished as to how the facts can be construed to show the man for some kind of hero,
He should have done time of leaving Mary Joe to die in that car and lets not forget his Treasonous act in undermining Regan with the Russians.
The Fact that he got away with both simply because he was a Kennedy is Horse shit in my eyes and that's only two problems I've had with him
not even taking into account his liberal policies in modern day politics!

[Tyrones own]

Tyrone's Own I live in Ireland, remember that country.

I never heard of Tony Snow and have little interest in US right versus uber-right bilateral politics (to think you they call it left and right  )

Kennedy gets an RIP from me for lots of reasons but the biggest is probably the ability to rise above tiny minds.

Asking me anything about what happened that famous night is as pointless as you pontificating about it.

That's too bad, would have liked your take on some of my points.
Of course you can't help yourself with a few subtle insults thrown in
as you quietly close the door behind you...ah well

[muppet]

Tyrone's Own I live in Ireland, remember that country.

I never heard of Tony Snow and have little interest in US right versus uber-right bilateral politics (to think you they call it left and right  )

Kennedy gets an RIP from me for lots of reasons but the biggest is probably the ability to rise above tiny minds.

Asking me anything about what happened that famous night is as pointless as you pontificating about it.

That's too bad, would have liked your take on some of my points.
Of course you can't help yourself with a few subtle insults thrown in
as you quietly close the door behind you...ah well

You started the insults with your blanket attack on all southerners.

[Tyrones own]

Tyrone's Own I live in Ireland, remember that country.

I never heard of Tony Snow and have little interest in US right versus uber-right bilateral politics (to think you they call it left and right  )

Kennedy gets an RIP from me for lots of reasons but the biggest is probably the ability to rise above tiny minds.

Asking me anything about what happened that famous night is as pointless as you pontificating about it.

That's too bad, would have liked your take on some of my points.
Of course you can't help yourself with a few subtle insults thrown in
as you quietly close the door behind you...ah well

You started the insults with your blanket attack on all southerners.

To which I explained my reasoning...something you have yet to do this afternoon

P.S just  to correct you on yet another gross exaggeration to suit you argument, Below is what I actually wrote

Ah the irony here with some of our southern counterparts shining light on the great mans efforts to bring about peace in the North....when truth be told, most of ye couldn't care less if we broke off in to the north Atlantic! but hey don't let the truth get in the way of an opportunity to sing the praises of a modern day hero to most here.

[muppet]

Tyrone's Own I live in Ireland, remember that country.

I never heard of Tony Snow and have little interest in US right versus uber-right bilateral politics (to think you they call it left and right  )

Kennedy gets an RIP from me for lots of reasons but the biggest is probably the ability to rise above tiny minds.

Asking me anything about what happened that famous night is as pointless as you pontificating about it.

That's too bad, would have liked your take on some of my points.
Of course you can't help yourself with a few subtle insults thrown in
as you quietly close the door behind you...ah well

You started the insults with your blanket attack on all southerners.

To which I explained my reasoning...something you have yet to do this afternoon

P.S just  to correct you on yet another gross exaggeration to suit you argument, Below is what I actually wrote

Ah the irony here with some of our southern counterparts shining light on the great mans efforts to bring about peace in the North....when truth be told, most of ye couldn't care less if we broke off in to the north Atlantic! but hey don't let the truth get in the way of an opportunity to sing the praises of a modern day hero to most here.

Still a lie.

[Tyrones own]

Still a lie.

In your opinion right? clearly something I  don't seem to be entitled to
FFS give it up Muppet...your making a right Bollix out of yourself at this point.

[orangeman]

Very touching send off today. Read a great article last night about him. The fall and rise of Ted Kennedy in the Indo.

Ok he had personal shortcomings but he led from the front and was as a champion of those less fortunate. Here it is :


Hero for our time: The fall and rise of Ted Kennedy
David Usborne reflects on a life of tragedy and redemption











Friday August 28 2009
If you were a political reporter in Washington in the late summer of 1994, you'd have found yourself travelling with surprising frequency to Massachusetts. The interest in a certain state-wide election was morbid in a way. After three decades in the US Senate, Ted Kennedy was locked in battle with a clean-cut former businessman, Mitt Romney. And it looked as if he might lose.

I still recall watching Kennedy on the trail. He walked with a shuffle and his cheeks looked like sponges filled with booze. He had the air of a man struggling, who had had enough -- of the burdens of his family name, of the expectations placed on him, and of the years of scandal, followed by tragedy, followed by more scandal.

JFK's widow, Jackie Kennedy Onassis, had died earlier that year. All that seemed to remain of the so-called Camelot, the quasi-royal clan spawned by Joseph and Rose Kennedy in Boston, was Teddy; and his flaws seemed to be catching up with him. He was tainted and exhausted. Nationally, his approval rating was a sad 22pc.

Of course, that all seems daft now, even disrespectful of a man who actually had so much more ahead of him -- not least a fantastically successful second marriage, then in its infancy, to a Boston lawyer, Victoria Reggie. Maybe we were overestimating Romney, who was as physically lithe and presentable as Kennedy was halting and derelict. Teddy found his roar, and Romney, who lost by 17 points, was exposed as flimsy.

The pundits had forgotten that favourite of all the Kennedy lines, lifted from a Tennyson poem and doubtless first impressed on his sons by old Joe in Hyannis, the Cape Cod town that remained Teddy's home until the end: "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." And then there is that old adage about suffering and strength. Teddy was

[magickingdom]

Ah the irony here with some of our southern counterparts shining light on the great mans efforts to bring about peace in the North....when truth be told, most of ye couldn't care less if we broke off in to the north Atlantic! but hey don't let the truth get in the way of an opportunity to sing the praises of a modern day hero to most here.

to, i find that insulting. . .

your point about tony snow is completely irrelevant.

as someone whose irish/american (born in ny and spent about 15 years in the states) ted kennedy was revered in my family and in most of the irish/american community. what he did at chappaquiddick was very wrong but the rest of his life he devoted to helping the needy in the states (healthcare for all anyone?/school buses anyone? etc etc) and ireland whenever ireland came calling. just because he did fit in with your agenda doesn't mean he didn't make a great contribution to the states and ireland and we cant run an RIP thread for him. ireland lost a great voice last week

[pintsofguinness]

Where's the rest of the article orangeman?

Watched most of the funeral today as well, tributes from his son's very moving. 

Just hard to imagine how the man coped with so much personal tragedy and managed to keep going. 

[muppet]

Still a lie.

In your opinion right? clearly something I  don't seem to be entitled to
FFS give it up Muppet...your making a right Bollix out of yourself at this point.

In your opinion right?

The only one agreeing with you is Eastern Pride. He hasn't the wit to realise you insulted him.

[orangeman]

Hero for our time: The fall and rise of Ted Kennedy


David Usborne reflects on a life of tragedy and redemption



Friday August 28 2009

If you were a political reporter in Washington in the late summer of 1994, you'd have found yourself travelling with surprising frequency to Massachusetts. The interest in a certain state-wide election was morbid in a way. After three decades in the US Senate, Ted Kennedy was locked in battle with a clean-cut former businessman, Mitt Romney. And it looked as if he might lose.

I still recall watching Kennedy on the trail. He walked with a shuffle and his cheeks looked like sponges filled with booze. He had the air of a man struggling, who had had enough -- of the burdens of his family name, of the expectations placed on him, and of the years of scandal, followed by tragedy, followed by more scandal.

JFK's widow, Jackie Kennedy Onassis, had died earlier that year. All that seemed to remain of the so-called Camelot, the quasi-royal clan spawned by Joseph and Rose Kennedy in Boston, was Teddy; and his flaws seemed to be catching up with him. He was tainted and exhausted. Nationally, his approval rating was a sad 22pc.

Of course, that all seems daft now, even disrespectful of a man who actually had so much more ahead of him -- not least a fantastically successful second marriage, then in its infancy, to a Boston lawyer, Victoria Reggie. Maybe we were overestimating Romney, who was as physically lithe and presentable as Kennedy was halting and derelict. Teddy found his roar, and Romney, who lost by 17 points, was exposed as flimsy.

The pundits had forgotten that favourite of all the Kennedy lines, lifted from a Tennyson poem and doubtless first impressed on his sons by old Joe in Hyannis, the Cape Cod town that remained Teddy's home until the end: "To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." And then there is that old adage about suffering and strength. Teddy was the embodiment of it. Edward Moore Kennedy was also an archetypal silver screen hero, buffeted equally by tragic happenstance beyond his control and by the shortcomings of his own character, who, finally, makes good. Except that his story was not fiction.

The days to come will be filled with tributes and, more discreetly, memories of the senator's less glorious moments. "Ted Kennedy always baffled me," a former 'Time' correspondent and biographer, Lance Morrow, noted. "He was so astonishingly productive as a senator, yet his private life was extremely messy. When it came to Kennedy's character, you'd feel whipsawed judging it."

Three years before that race against Romney, the senator spoke himself of the potholes of his life in a speech at the John F Kennedy School of Government. He had been tainted once more by a tipsy night out in Florida with a young nephew, William Kennedy Smith, who ended up being tried (and acquitted) for attempted rape. "I recognise my own shortcomings -- the faults in the conduct of my private life," he said. "I realise that I alone am responsible for them, and I am the one who must confront them."

No Kennedy story is complete without reference to Joe, grandson of Irish immigrants and one-time ambassador to London, recalled in 1941 for harbouring Nazi sympathies. With Rose, he had nine children, and his desire to see one of them confound the snobs and critics by assuming high political office -- if possible the presidency -- became his mission. "The big thing we learnt from Daddy," Eunice Kennedy Shriver, Teddy's elder sister (who died earlier this month), once said, "was win. Don't come in second or third -- that doesn't count -- but win, win, win."

Rosemary Kennedy, born in 1918, was a depressive mental patient who was hidden away. In 1941, Joe subjected her to a lobotomy. Though she lived until 2005, she remained incapacitated for the rest of her life. Teddy was just 12 years old when Joe Jr, the son on whom the old man had pinned all his hopes, was killed test-piloting a B-24 Liberator in England. It was 1944, and the so-called Curse of Camelot was beginning to show itself. The responsibility for realising his father's dreams shifted to the second son, John F Kennedy. The year after JFK was inaugurated, Teddy ran to occupy the US Senate seat he had vacated. His opponent, Eddie McCormack, said Kennedy's viability as a candidate was purely on account of his name. Years later, at McCormack's funeral, Kennedy confessed that the comment had been right. But Kennedy prevailed and, until yesterday, remained in the US Senate.

Once in the Senate, Teddy was heard to complain that the influence he thought he would have in his brother's White House had not materialised. Yet, in time, he had much more serious challenges to overcome -- and family funerals to attend. First there was Jack's, in 1963, and then Robert Kennedy, slain in California in 1968 as he made his bid to reignite the Kennedy flame in the White House. When word came that Bobby had been shot, it fell to Ted to go to Hyannis to tell his father.

Biographers have described Ted as living thenceforth with the feeling he had a target painted on his back. If a door unexpectedly opened in a committee room, his eyes would dart to watch for possible danger.

In 1972 and 1976, he resisted calls to run for the White House, citing safety concerns. Most commentators saw a different reason: Chappaquiddick. The night in 1969 when he drove off a bridge connecting Chappaquiddick to Martha's Vineyard -- causing the death by drowning of his young passenger, Mary Joe Kopechne -- became a national scandal.

But Kennedy remained in the Senate. And he was never able to shake the responsibility of the surviving patriarch of Camelot. He was a surrogate father to the children of JFK and Bobby. He attended every family wedding, anniversary, birthday and funeral while his own personal life hit the reefs again and again. One son, Teddy Jr, was diagnosed with bone cancer and had a leg amputated, while another, Patrick, was a cocaine addict before he recovered and was elected to Congress. His 1958 marriage to Joan Kennedy was for years in slow collapse, ending in divorce in 1982.

As he built his political legacy of liberal legislation, championing everything from women's rights to abortion, gun control, minimum wage levels and education, he became a lightning rod for conservative America. In his eulogy to Jackie in 1994 he spoke of "an unbearable sorrow endured in the glare of a million lights". He might have said the same at the funeral of JFK Jr after his plane crash in 1999 -- or indeed of his own life.

The greatest tribute to Kennedy may be that from those lows of the early 1990s, he reasserted himself more powerfully than ever, drafting new laws to repel the tide of conservatism and helping launch a young African-American to the presidency. Above all, in his last years he achieved personal peace and happiness as well.

[Tyrones own]

Still a lie.

In your opinion right? clearly something I  don't seem to be entitled to
FFS give it up Muppet...your making a right Bollix out of yourself at this point.

In your opinion right?

The only one agreeing with you is Eastern Pride. He hasn't the wit to realise you insulted him.

Oh that's right cause it goes without saying he's most likely not as intelligent as you
Seriously, either answer my questions and back your shite up or quit while you can and
try to leave with some shred of credibility intact...Lord knows you do have your little gang of
cheerleaders on here that may be disheartened by reading this
It really is OK to be wrong about something at some point in your life...try it some time!

[muppet]

Still a lie.

In your opinion right? clearly something I  don't seem to be entitled to
FFS give it up Muppet...your making a right Bollix out of yourself at this point.

In your opinion right?

The only one agreeing with you is Eastern Pride. He hasn't the wit to realise you insulted him.

Oh that's right cause it goes without saying he's most likely not as intelligent as you
Seriously, either answer my questions and back your shite up or quit while you can and
try to leave with some shred of credibility intact...Lord knows you do have your little gang of
cheerleaders on here that may be disheartened by reading this
It really is OK to be wrong about something at some point in your life...try it some time!

You ask questions about Fox TV presenters. Why would I want to even know who they are? And what did I not back up? You are the one suggesting there is more to the Mary Joe accident, let's have the facts then genius. I mentioned the conviction, that is a fact. Where are your facts on the matter?

There is life outside the States, you might even remember this country.

The Kennedys mean a lot to some people here, not that that would stop you dancing on their graves.