Antrim Hurling

[johnneycool]

Div 2 is 2 down 1 up to make it 8 teams next year. Div 3 is 1 down 1 up as it already has 8 teams

If Div 3 has 8 teams and 2 come down from Div 2 that makes 10.  One team promoted to Div 2 leaves 9.  One promoted from Div 4 leaves 10 again, so need to have 2 relegated?

Alright carol vorderman, alright!  It'll take the clubs to propose and vote for it though (play-offs etc.) so with a bit of effort we can help improve the current stagnant league structures.

I don't see a whole pile wrong with Div1 to be honest.

Granted at the minute there's the top three and then there's a five way relegation battle going on with the rest.

If playoffs were to happen, what format would you recommend? Bottom 4?? second from bottom plays second from top in Div2 ??

[btdtgtt]

But it would still need to be two up two down, competitive to the end.

A lot of div 2 teams will be crapping themselves come near the end of the season. Gorts, ourselves, and Rossa have not played in that league for a long time (don't think Rossa ever had)
Can you imagine the div 1 league if it were two down? be some gurning if one of the big teams were put in that position

Dont think Rossa ever had what? Watched them against Lamh Dearg the other night - was an entertaining game even tho ref managed to annoy both sides! Micko was excellent in No6 as was Shanzo at the back for Rossa. Lamh Dearg really impress me this year I have seen them a few times.

[btdtgtt]

To be honest I think if the structures were changed we would be on this forum complaining again - I think we seem to change every year what seems to be right maybe its just a case of getting on with it after all championship is the real deal. Altho I will say that the current setup is doing nothing in developing our county team. Personally I think we should play off the league and then the top 6-8 clubs compete for senior championship then the next 6-8 intermediate and so on. Means every game in meaningful as it is mroe or less a championship match.

[Milltown Row2]

But it would still need to be two up two down, competitive to the end.

A lot of div 2 teams will be crapping themselves come near the end of the season. Gorts, ourselves, and Rossa have not played in that league for a long time (don't think Rossa ever had)
Can you imagine the div 1 league if it were two down? be some gurning if one of the big teams were put in that position

Dont think Rossa ever had what? Watched them against Lamh Dearg the other night - was an entertaining game even tho ref managed to annoy both sides! Micko was excellent in No6 as was Shanzo at the back for Rossa. Lamh Dearg really impress me this year I have seen them a few times.

Been in div 3

[DearyMe]

2 up 2 down every league - enough nonsense about teams gurning etc... get a back bone, take the medicine!
If not good enough over a season, you shouldn be there the next! Ballycastle had to do it this year!

Lamhs have impressed me also!

[Last Man]

Have any of yous ever been to a county meeting when these things are decided??? Very few of the delegates would be considered the visionarys among us in fact few can see past the end of their nose. This is a vitally important position within any club but in most cases is left to people who have been doing it for years and will never take a risk for the greater good and just stick with the same old shite and let the house fall down round us. Totally agree with MR and he has been saying it for years, 2 up 2 down might just spark a bit of a buzz back into Antrim hurling.
Take my own club, a massive effort has been put into juvenile hurling over the last 10 years and is now starting to bear fruit with all our teams competing and holding their own at A grade, players on all development squads. 1.2M invested in club development in the last 13 years. A shining example to all clubs and considering our history, a serious achievment.
BUT, our seniors are languishing in Div 4 where lets face it lads, you couldn't be charging in for it as hurling doesnt always see you through. So it's basically just a scrap where if you slip up once you're fucked, promotion chance gone for another year.
And before anyone gets ahead of themselves we are realistic enough to aspire to maybe holding on to a place in Division 2 in a few years time but given the current structures that would take an awful lot of luck.

[Milltown Row2]

The two up two down works well in Football, why not hurling? I can remember our senior team not so long ago playing in Div 2 football. Ten years later they are appearing in Croke Park!!

No big deal going down, it's how you get back up and drive on after that is what counts.

As Last Man has said one little blip, a wet windy night up the country or in Belfast and all your title aspirations fly out the window.

Growing up we always competed against the 'big teams' at juvenile level but when we became senior players we were always playing in the lower leagues, so we ended up playing at a lower standard and it took a real big effort and a strong juvenile team to come through and win us the chance to stay in Div 1. 

You will get your chance, hopefully, as it would be a waste to have so many good young lads playing at the lower grades as it doesn't improve them at all

[NAG1]

Basically the leagues reflect the level of committment by the clubs to their hurling, be that the club committee or the players level of committment.

St Galls are always going to be a second tier hurling club, thats just the way it is, yes they might compete once in a while at senior championship running someone close but with no sustained development they will remain where they are.

Ballycastle are another example, they neglected any coaching for the past 15-20 years at underage level and now it is biting back at them and even though they have 5-6 very good players they still might remain in Div 2.

I think the leagues reflect the reality of the current hurling landscape. 2 up 2 down isnt going to change that or any other system until clubs take it upon themselves to make a serious drive to improve.

[Milltown Row2]

Basically the leagues reflect the level of committment by the clubs to their hurling, be that the club committee or the players level of committment.

St Galls are always going to be a second tier hurling club, thats just the way it is, yes they might compete once in a while at senior championship running someone close but with no sustained development they will remain where they are.

Ballycastle are another example, they neglected any coaching for the past 15-20 years at underage level and now it is biting back at them and even though they have 5-6 very good players they still might remain in Div 2.

I think the leagues reflect the reality of the current hurling landscape. 2 up 2 down isnt going to change that or any other system until clubs take it upon themselves to make a serious drive to improve.

But NAG1 it gives some teams a chance to compete at a higher level maybe for a season maybe not, I know from personal experience that it certainly drove the numbers up at training and encouraged younger ones to play both codes, when at a time the lure of football big time was there.

It filtered down to the juveniles also, coaches were using Div 1 status as a carrot for the next batch of senior hurlers.

Don't get me wrong at the minute the leagues seem to be competitive and the cream always (usually) rises to the top, thats why Cushendall, Loughgiel and Dunloy are clear of the chasing pack. Ballycastle clear in Div 2 but if a team can get up to Div 1 and maintain that for a couple of seasons the benefits are immense.

Why not have two up two down, christ we have tried everything else over the years!!

[NAG1]

Dont get me wrong Im not against any system that will increase the chances of a club becoming competitive, but I am fed up of hearing these clubs complain about being where they are and living on past glories when they put no work in whatsoever.

It will take a concerted effort across these clubs to get their players to a standard where they can compete in Div 1 regularly.

[Last Man]

Surprisingly short sighted NAG, it's fine for those at the top for now but if there is little realistic hope of a reasonable time scale for those who want to progress then where is the incentive, and on the flip side for those who just want to do enough to hold on?? It takes far too long either way. Tell me how this mediocraty benefits any club. Admit it you just wouldn't want any of the pond scum polluting the purity of Division 1 

[NAG1]

  Last Man

Couldnt be further from the truth, I would like to see Belfast (especially) on its feet hurling wise but I dont see them having the work ethic to get there and be competitive when they are there.

My point is that it takes alot of hard work and committment from the clubs and the players and if you look at the clubs in Div 2, you could argue that this is the element that has been sorely lacking over the past number of years.

Its not short sighted, but IMO a div 1 place should be the pinacle and should be treated as such. If these clubs put the required hard graft in to get there then they are less likely to piss it away because of someones stag party was the same weekend as a match etc.

[DearyMe]

NAG whats your beef here?

You simply cannot justity not having a 2 up 2 down system - everyother league has it,  yet we are frigthened to impose on div 1!

If a team is poor enough to finish in the bottom 2 of div 1, let them take their medicine - we do not have a duty to protect one calibre/pedigree of hurling over another - that would regress hurling in the county - its pretty black and white (or amber)!!!

And no one has the rite to judge whether a team will be a nearly team/div 2 team etc - without knowing that clubs structures and work ethic!!!

You cant pass judgement based on history - and that goes for both history of success and or lack of!

[NAG1]

DearyMe

I can clearly judge hurling clubs that I know and know what they are doing and not doing. Hence my point was they are in Div 2 for a reason and we shouldnt be clamouring to get anyone back to Div 1 until they earn that right.

If they arent prepared to put the work in continually then they deserve to be where they are, if its recreational hurling they want then there are leagues for that too.

Point being Div 1 should be the pinacle and should be treated as such.

[Last Man]

Last Man

Couldnt be further from the truth, I would like to see Belfast (especially) on its feet hurling wise but I dont see them having the work ethic to get there and be competitive when they are there.

My point is that it takes alot of hard work and committment from the clubs and the players and if you look at the clubs in Div 2, you could argue that this is the element that has been sorely lacking over the past number of years.

Its not short sighted, but IMO a div 1 place should be the pinacle and should be treated as such. If these clubs put the required hard graft in to get there then they are less likely to piss it away because of someones stag party was the same weekend as a match etc.

"Belfast".Not sure how that relates to me but anyway, scratch the surface Nag and are we seeing shades of elitism by any chance. Division 2 clubs are slackers or are they just kept in their place by the prevailling status quo? 2 up 2 down would drive a coach and horses through the "glass ceiling" IMO. So what next build a wall from Toome to Larne to protect the monks from the marauding Stags?