Antrim Hurling

[sail_in]

St johns have had great Juveniles for years. always bigger and better, come minor and senior it always evens out and they lose the thing that beat teams when the were under 16 and below. a lot of this is down to them losing interest, drink, and teams being able to match or better them.

To be honest from what I hear it's not just the factors you mention which are causing kids to lose interest.  I've heard a couple of stories about various things he's done, like the subs aren't good enough to listen to the team talk before a game.  That's bound to be very disheartening for kids!

thats why the Belfast and surrounding clubs have deserted them.  Its one of the reasons we now play our juv hurling in NA

Are you from St Enda's Last Man?  I've heard rumours that Lamh Dhearg are going to be the next "city" club to play their juvenile football and hurling in South West and North Antrim respectively.  This isn't good - the South Antrim clubs really need to get their own house in order. 

Did Jonty not also decide last year or the year before that his team we're getting enough competition in the South Antrim league and took it upon himself to pull them out of the league.  Their weekends were then spent on trips to various places down south.

[NAG]

Yeah he has done a colossal amount of traveling with those kids up and down to the south.

I would say if you looked into the tournaments that he is running then I would say very few of the belfast clubs were invited in the first place, he seems to think that the rest of the belfast clubs have nothing to offer him and his team in the way of competition. I dont think that is the way to be looking at hurling development in Belfast.

[Last Man]

Yes Sail In, St.Endas. Rossa, ourselves, Pearse's are the only clubs making any headway after S.John's in and near Belfast( We're not a Belfast Club by the way for those who are prone to generalisation). IMO developing confidence in kids is as important as the skills but I have found that the atmosphere at Corrigan can be quite intimadatory such is the pressure on the St.Johns kids to excel and the way the mentors celebrate their win(they always win) just doesn't sit well with me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a bad loser, in fact as a coach you learn more from losing than winning sometimes but rubbing a 10 or 11 year old kid's nose in it as a loser will do nothing for his development as a hurler.

[Cromagh]

Just reading through the posts....and no mention of Mageean Cup win for Cross & Passion College. No maybe it wasnt big news but if Maghera won a McRory Cup or Hogan we would certainly be discussing it. Schools play a massive part in our players development. No wonder, you Antrim lads are way behind - no support of schools work. Just an obersvation

[NonCharlatan]

i took some cushendall teams at u10 and there was an u11 grade. they would be next yrs u16's. we beat st johns on a few occasions in tournaments and found ourselves uninvited from the tommy best tournament ( i think it was that). we beat them in an all county primary school tournament and when they knew they were getting beat their bigger stronger players started hitting our more skillful players. that was never condoned by their managers.

our club would have had a good link to the johnnies over the yrs and their is a respect their but i often find they are ok when they are beating you, but god forgive if you start beating them. at this age it all needs to be focused on developing players. thats why in the next couple of yrs grades from u12 down are going to be cut and all emphasis will be based on go games.

must agree that johnson is nice fella when you get him away from the pitch and would always come for a chat or say hello if you saw him anywhere

Hi Colonel

I could not agree with you more with regard to St. Johns.  Once those guys put on the Blue and white hooped ganseys their whole demeanor changes which in my experience I can only say it was entirely to the detriment of the game, especially when they were getting beat.   Janty, likewise, a nice guy when away from St. John's.  Sometime back, I was was actually invited by Janty to go up to St. John's to see how he was doing things in terms of coaching young lads.  However, when I had heard about his antics/tactics and they way he tends to do things relating to hurling at St. Johns, I am glad I did not venture up the Whiterock for a perusal.  It would appear Janty is maybe doing things there for his own self gratification.  In a more global context, I have also witnessed the same detrimental actions of North Antrim teams in the local parish derbys.  This does not only exist in south Antrim among teams like St. John's/Rossa and St. Gall's/Lamh Dhearg.  Such inter parish/local derby rivalry in my view is extremely unhealthy and is doing nothing towards the much needed improvement in our game in Antrim.  It is fair to say that the same inter parish rivalry exists in North Antrim also, lets use Dunloy/Loughgiel as an example and in particular this years senior championship replay.  Certainly it was a game game not for the faint hearted, a great spectacle from a hurling perspective, but some dirty off the ball actions dished out.

This type of savagery/butchery which has been administered at local derby games in our county, most certainly does not auger well for the development of the game in Antrim.   Young lads at games and brought to games to watch certain individuals cut each other up is clearly not going to improve are lot in terms of hurling development.   This in my view is all that is wrong in Antrim hurling, too much inter club rivalry, dirty off/on the ball actions particularity in local parish derbys and were we actually promote amongst our kids that it is alright to try and decapitate an opposing player.  When this sort of thing is encouraged by adults, mentors, coaches at various clubs, it will continue to mar our wonderful/magnificent camán agus sliotár game.  Only when this is eradicated from Antrim hurling at juvenile level can we ever hope to improve our standard of hurling.

[Cromagh]

Again no mention of schools.....its just clubs, clubs, clubs. as long as you get one over your neighbour......then again it s abit like derry club football at min 2

[NAG]

I think in one post you just summed up your lack or knowledge and understanding of the game of hurling.

Hurling is passionate game and you are never going to get more passionate games than local derbies. If you look at the first game of Dunloy and Loughgiel both teams went at it hammer and tongs and hardly an incident in the whole game and barring a couple of silly incidents towards the end of the replay (which is a fault of replays as much as anything else) then it was probably one of the more intense games of hurling in the county in the last while. We dont need to discourage this type of game as it is this type of intensity that is brought by our southern counterparts.

What we need to do is getting 5 - 6 more teams up to the standard of being able to live with that type of game. We need every game in the top league to bring some sort of intensity with it, not these namby pamby games that have been happening in the past few years. Once you get the the other teams up to that level of skill then we can work on the finer points of the matches themselves. But it is going to take that before Hurling in Antrim before we go anywhere!

(as well as all the ground work being done in the school as that is where it all starts, happy now!)

[NonCharlatan]

I think in one post you just summed up your lack or knowledge and understanding of the game of hurling.

Hurling is passionate game and you are never going to get more passionate games than local derbies. If you look at the first game of Dunloy and Loughgiel both teams went at it hammer and tongs and hardly an incident in the whole game and barring a couple of silly incidents towards the end of the replay (which is a fault of replays as much as anything else) then it was probably one of the more intense games of hurling in the county in the last while. We dont need to discourage this type of game as it is this type of intensity that is brought by our southern counterparts.

What we need to do is getting 5 - 6 more teams up to the standard of being able to live with that type of game. We need every game in the top league to bring some sort of intensity with it, not these namby pamby games that have been happening in the past few years. Once you get the the other teams up to that level of skill then we can work on the finer points of the matches themselves. But it is going to take that before Hurling in Antrim before we go anywhere!

(as well as all the ground work being done in the school as that is where it all starts, happy now!)

Hi Nag

I think you are taking this out of context.  I am certainly all for intense, hard, manful and hurling played with pace and physicality.  I really do think I have experience and knowledge of the game than you think, I have the scars, knocks and wounds to prove it. What I was alluding to, which you failed miserably in comprehending, is that there is a distinct difference in young lads being taught/coached in how to be physical and manly as opposed to trying to physically maim each other at the behest of their coaches and mentors an din some cases parents

Unlike you, you among others in this forum are probably one of those self pontificating school teachers who is promoting text book hurling and who has probably never been actively engaged in a physical game of hurling of any meaning.  I could be wrong of course, which I am always willing to concede.

However, in order to make the key point a little more obvious.  There is not point in fellas like you using an anonymous 'Antrim hurling forum' to sit and whinge, bemoan and ridicule the state of hurling or what needs to done to improve Antrim hurling.  Sitting here talking about it, does nothing, changes nothing and improves absolutely nothing.  If your and others are really serious about changing/improving hurling in Antrim, I would suggest your actions will speak greater volumes that your idol words.

I for one have played for club and county, coached at all ages at my own club level, and also coached at other clubs where hurling was dead nor ever existed. I have trained as a qualified coach also which enhances my credentials, can you and others say the same?  I doubt it!

Now, before you start getting personal, this is not a direct attack on you, but a calculated and honest reply to your demeaning/undermining comment, "you just summed up your lack or knowledge and understanding of the game of hurling".

[NonCharlatan]

So NAG.

Are you happy no!

[johnneycool]

I don't think the charlatan is totally wide of the mark in terms of the juvenile hurling where interparish rivalries go too far and its' certainly an issue in the Ards where the environment and pressure put on youngsters to win at all costs is certainly detrimental to their own development and potentially puts some youngsters off continuing playing the games in later years.

After what I've witnessed in recent years where so called adults have verbally abused youngsters as young as 12 not to mention constant pitch incursions by mentors and spectators alike. Recent Feile competitions have been an absolute disgrace and if I had anything to do with them in Down, I'd cancel the bloody thing until the clubs gained a proper perspective on whats right for the youngsters involved rather than some individuals trying to live out the hurling career they never had most because they hadn't the balls to take themselves into a dark room.

Senior hurling is totally different where a bit of bite makes the game more interesting rather than watching some friendly pitch opening which is like paint drying no matter how high the score is. It's a manly game and although it can go over the top at times the game would be ruined if the physical element was removed.

[NAG]

asses sorry charlatan


You know nothing about my back ground in the game so therefore I would kindly ask you not to judge something you have no knowledge of.

My point of your lack of knowledge was based soley on your post which I felt was wrong. The point being that if the coaching structures were better in clubs and schools then the parish rivalry and city rivalries would bring the intensity to macth the increased skill level from the good coaching.

We all know that common sense should prevail at under age games and that no one should be over stepping the mark, but it is allying this type of discipline to the type of intensity that inter parish rivalry brings that will bring success.

[NonCharlatan]

asses sorry charlatan


You know nothing about my back ground in the game so therefore I would kindly ask you not to judge something you have no knowledge of.

My point of your lack of knowledge was based soley on your post which I felt was wrong. The point being that if the coaching structures were better in clubs and schools then the parish rivalry and city rivalries would bring the intensity to macth the increased skill level from the good coaching.

We all know that common sense should prevail at under age games and that no one should be over stepping the mark, but it is allying this type of discipline to the type of intensity that inter parish rivalry brings that will bring success.

Nag, a chara.

Now you are debating.  Good man.

As I said, I am be wrong and I frequently am friend, I am always prepared to concede that.  But the basic question then to be asked, if coaching structures in clubs and schools are not up to the mark, what are people on an Antrim Hurling forum doing about it?  That really is the question.  We can all sit here and debate as much as you want.  We can coach and equip our young people with the right skills, techniques etc, etc.  but if they continue be exposed to Seniors hurlers trying to knock seven buckets of Sh** out of each other, you have to ask what example are we leading by.  Young lads being exposed to such things creates the scenario where it is viewed as the norm and acceptable.  This is not what improving the standard of hurling is about, well not in my book.

Physicality, speed of action, speed of mind, pace, guile, craft, cohesion, stick work and instilling self belief is were we really need to get to. In my view, and remember, it is only my view, I honestly don't believe we have the aforementioned attributes nor the physical human resources  and maybe the commitment and desire to archive such things.  I am also of the opinion, the County Board, Ulster Council and particularly those non active/non-traditional hurling clubs in our county have a major role to play.  Hurling needs to be treated with parity not as second fiddle to football.

[milltown row]

Just reading through the posts....and no mention of Mageean Cup win for Cross & Passion College. No maybe it wasnt big news but if Maghera won a McRory Cup or Hogan we would certainly be discussing it. Schools play a massive part in our players development. No wonder, you Antrim lads are way behind - no support of schools work. Just an obersvation

well done Cross and Passion, no mean feat in beating a good St Marys team, hope this transfers onto a poor enough Ballycastle team that has failed of late

[theskull1]

I think we're all trying to say the similar things guys so we should not be looking too hard to find faults in the small print.

NC just to answer your question which I do find a strange one given what we're discussing "what are people on an Antrim Hurling forum doing about it?  That really is the question.  "

I would say that at least 70%-80% of contributers on the Antrim Hurling forum are as interested about our game as anybody you'll find in Antrim and that they each play important roles in the development and success of their clubs. That is a guess. Why else would people spend their time voicing opinions if they were not prepared to stand behind them and be part of the change that they would like to see? Just because Admin on the Antrim website thinks were wasters doesn't make it true.

I agree 100% with this BTW

We can coach and equip our young people with the right skills, techniques etc, etc.  but if they continue be exposed to Seniors hurlers trying to knock seven buckets of Sh** out of each other, you have to ask what example are we leading by.  Young lads being exposed to such things creates the scenario where it is viewed as the norm and acceptable.  This is not what improving the standard of hurling is about, well not in my book.

Physicality, speed of action, speed of mind, pace, guile, craft, cohesion, stick work and instilling self belief is were we really need to get to. In my view, and remember, it is only my view, I honestly don't believe we have the aforementioned attributes nor the physical human resources  and maybe the commitment and desire to archive such things.  I am also of the opinion, the County Board, Ulster Council and particularly those non active/non-traditional hurling clubs in our county have a major role to play.  Hurling needs to be treated with parity not as second fiddle to football.

[Minder]

Just reading through the posts....and no mention of Mageean Cup win for Cross & Passion College. No maybe it wasnt big news but if Maghera won a McRory Cup or Hogan we would certainly be discussing it. Schools play a massive part in our players development. No wonder, you Antrim lads are way behind - no support of schools work. Just an obersvation

well done Cross and Passion, no mean feat in beating a good St Marys team, hope this transfers onto a poor enough Ballycastle team that has failed of late

Dont know for certain Milltown but historically Cross and Passion would take a fair few pupils from Loughguile,and probably a few from Cushendall too not sure of the breakdown of clubs though from the school team