Antrim Hurling

[theskull1]

You can't make these vague comments without defining what you mean by not enough work. I could gaurentee you that everybody on that U21 side has been out hurling 3 times a week since March with their clubs so "work" is being done

We need to step back and take a medium term view if that work is not good enough quality and develop people with the capabilites to coach at the right level in every club. No point in blaming S&W for players lacking in "skill"

To me though it's the apathy that exists with Antrim County Teams that brings about results like last night. There's a huge mental/mentality problem with "The saffrons/glensmen" and I'm not sure how it can be delt with. But ones things for sure, if it is not recognised as a problem then it never will be.

[imtommygunn]

Ok sorry for being vague...

Definition of what I mean for work in this case: training and playing friendlies as a team. You can do all the training you want with your own club but this will not help you gel the county u21 team. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I haven't seen any evidence of friendlies...

You look at the minor teams we had who may not have beaten southern opposition but at least competed and they played a lot of friendlies. They spent weekends in places like Kilkenny etc. This was good for team spirit, playing as a team and improving them in general with match sharpness against quality opposition.

Personally I think it's time the county employed different u21 and senior manager's in both codes. Both codes have been a huge disappointment over the last few years. The managers have to run with two separate agendas.

The u21 team were missing Neil McManus who is a massive loss and , I think, Simon McRory and McFall. However that's not to get away from anything else.

[Minder]

Imtommygunn

The last two U 21 teams have had far better preparation than many Antrim U 21 teams, I remember playing U-21 games for Antrim and we had 2 or 3 meetings where 7 or 8 players turned up, on the day of the game you almost had to be introduced to players to familiarise yourself with them. There is no way an U-21 team is going to get the same preparation as a senior team, there are just not enough free nights in the calendar. We have become the county of the excuse, you would have think they would have learnt their lesson last year.

[Guillem2]

Im not convinced that the work is being done in Derry at all. It isn't being done in Antrim and Derry have a crop of really good lads at the minute. This will continue to happen now and again but we can cut alot of it out with proper coaching and preparation.

[Arthur_Friend]

"I remember playing U-21 games for Antrim....."

Minder, you're starting to sound like Sambo's Irish News column 

[theskull1]

Ok sorry for being vague...

Definition of what I mean for work in this case: training and playing friendlies as a team. You can do all the training you want with your own club but this will not help you gel the county u21 team. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I haven't seen any evidence of friendlies...

You look at the minor teams we had who may not have beaten southern opposition but at least competed and they played a lot of friendlies. They spent weekends in places like Kilkenny etc. This was good for team spirit, playing as a team and improving them in general with match sharpness against quality opposition.

Personally I think it's time the county employed different u21 and senior manager's in both codes. Both codes have been a huge disappointment over the last few years. The managers have to run with two separate agendas.

The u21 team were missing Neil McManus who is a massive loss and , I think, Simon McRory and McFall. However that's not to get away from anything else.

Cheers Tommy

I have to agree with minder about preparation time. It's a red herring as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure Derry had an equal type of preparation going into the game (i.e not much time to do all the things you suggest would have helped us). Not enough nights in the week to do everything the way you would like to

The other thing is that the couple of years where there was serious time give to the minor teams were some of the worst years for the minor leagues fixtures. Now did we lose more talent from those years as a result of this approach? 

Big responsibility on all the clubs to get their coaching standards up and realize that ultimately the clubs have sole responsibility when it comes to raising standards. Anybody who expects these development squads or county team representation to make any tangible difference to the standard of our game is disillusioned. The Div 2 teams need to push on. The non traditional teams like randlestown/clooney gaels st enda's, who appear to be making a good push need to strive towards div 1 standards and not settle for second best.

[bannside]

I`d say last nights beating was the lowest point of S/W`s tenure.

Would have been fairly loyal to them in the past, in a message board type of way, but cant get much lower than this.

Best hurling I`ve seen all year, fitness, cohesion, intensity, etc, was from our minors.

Large question marks appearing all over the place, and the good Doc will be judged on his ability to deal effectively with two particularly dire senior teams, and two particularly bad u-21 teams, in the last two years.

Stand up Doc. Time to be having you!

[imtommygunn]

Well perhaps I am trying to find excuses / reasons where there aren't any to be honest.

This bunch were beating Derry minors by a lot,more than I've ever seen for an Antrim minor team, three years ago so hard to explain what has happened since then.

I would definitely agree regarding fixtures. The players outside those squads weren't getting much game time to improve.

I believe very much that u21 and senior managers should not be the same people though.

[imtommygunn]

On the minor note this year it's very low key but seems like a decent bunch of players.

It's Tipp this weekend. Could this be the team to give us something to shout about this year??

[Minder]

On the minor note this year it's very low key but seems like a decent bunch of players.

It's Tipp this weekend. Could this be the team to give us something to shout about this year??

I would doubt it, we have to remember the standard of opposition the two teams have faced in their respective provinces.

[theskull1]

: D. Ó Catháin
24 July 2008
Whenever our players fail to win, in either football or hurling, we in Antrim like to flood this site with trivialities. At present the concentration is on nicknames. Does it really matter what collective name we give to our teams and supporters? Why does this "disease" arise whenever our teams "fail", as supporters see it? I suggest that there are two main reasons:

1. We find it painful to face the truth about our county, so we divert our eyes to look at other things that seem less of a threat to our peace of mind.

2. We place far too much emphasis on "winning". It's not the first time I have stated this here but I say it again because I strongly believe it to be true - an exaggerated emphasis on winning is destructive of effort. Players become disillusioned; managers are under unfair and severe pressure; genuine supporters are depressed; the only ones happy seem to be the prophets of doom.
I maintain that we should concentrate not on winning but on performance, both at personal and team level. If we continue to focus on improving our performance and refuse to be distracted because our opponents outscore us, then, as sure as night follows day, our performance will eventually match that of the very best.

If winning were taken as the be-all and end-all of amateur games, many clubs and counties would have long ago abandoned the games.

So, let us not be afraid to look at the places where performance can be improved. Ar aghaidh linn.

Seen this on the Antrim guestbook. I totally agree.

[imtommygunn]

With regard to point 1 it's pretty much human nature really and possibly a trait I fell into.

Just read the derry thread and you'll see what I mean.

Point 2 , in the case of this u21 match, isn't that applicable as it's a game we should be winning.

[NAG]

ITG

Of course this is a game we should be winning. I think the questions have to be asked of S&W what have they done to make these players better individually since their days in minors when they were taking this derry team to the fair. The answer seems to be a resounding failure, some of the players have gone into reverse.

Lets look at this realisitically, we have a good number of the u21 squad on the senior team and in and around the set up, surely now that these players should be bigger stronger faster and should be better players for being in and around the senior set up. This is certainly not the case and it has to be questioned as to why this is happening and being allowed to happen?

I agree that the 'nay sayers' always will have something to gripe about and we should be looking to improve the overall structure of hurling coaching within the county, but that is no reason to hide behind this shocking result.

I think its time for a re think as to what are goals are as a county set up from minor up and time to plough in the much needed resources into the development set up.

Are we still working with one full time coach in belfast and still expecting to producing top quality players? This just does not happen.

If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got!

[NAG]

Name : NAG24 July 2008The work has been carried out for years with this specific group of players who are now at Under 21 Level, by a dedicated bunch of coaches through our development structures.

??

somebody stop me please.....

No problem - we have stopped you and a bit earlier than you thought. You have chosen to make personal attacks on individuals and their competence and you have subjectively selected various results and used lies and innuendo promoted by "hate-merchants" of this county to promote your own clearly skewed and biased opinion of "all that is wrong with Antrim". You are not going to do that on this forum! You have done it and will continue to do it on other forums that allows this sort of tripe to go unchallenged. Go back to those forums and wallow in this quagmire of self-importance. However, something pro-active and positive is being done in this county by volunteers that doesn't involve personal attacks from anonymous demagogues like you, and nor should they be subjected to it either.

I have just noticed this on the county website someone has posted there using an earlier post on the board that i made. I have to say I didnt post this on the county website though after the crap that was replied too it with I might start. Maybe the admin guys saw it here and wanted a pop at it.

'I have subjectively selected various results and used lies, it dont think there is any need for lies where results have been concerned they speak for themselves.'

'I have yet to attack anyone personally, I have spoke the truth about what is going on in this county and that is the problem with these administrators they cannot see the wood for the trees. My opinion is neither biased or skewed, it is simply my opinion and alot of the people on this board share most of my ideas on a way forward for this county. This is exactly the kind of attitude I have come to expect from this administration in casement we know everything and if you dont agree with it then to hel with everyone else.

If they want to start and talk about lies, half truths and self importance bring it on because I have ammo that could last me from here to christmas.

(sorry guys but I had to bring this up after I saw it on the county website)

[imtommygunn]

If you try to look objectively at what they've achieved...

Positives:
That leinster trophy I can't mind the name of
Ulster
beating Wexford in the league

Negatives:
biggest low for me was the dublin game - it showed us where we were really at
we struggled to put away both down and derry in the league - down with 14 men
hammerings by galway and waterford and most other teams in the league
u21 against derry

The one thing which you need to take into account when assessing these boys is that we have been screwed by the hurling hierarchy and are playing a lot of games where we are just completely out of our depth. This has a knock on effect on confidence and motivation.

I do think that some young boys are being thrown in to too much too young. I would particularly point to Paul Shields who is an excellent hurler but with his slightness of build needs to be given time to physically develop. Tosh and McFall should have been kept for a while. Some could argue McManus got injured by too much too young too.

Division 2 will be a much better test next year. At the minute it's very hard to see any progression but it's also very hard to measure it.