Antrim Hurling

[NAG]

Dunloy 3.21 Down 3.12

Good start for Dunloy although still a bit of work to do by all accounts.

[Glensman]

Just heard the new decision on the leagues.

There are to be 30 leagues - each team to be in their own league so that the good people of each club in Antrim have some success. 1 gets promoted from each league, no relegation. The t**ker man himself Claudio Ranieri has taken over from the good doctor as county chairman and has laid down a rule if you have ever played senior championship, or if your father's father played senior championship then that's what your club will play. Same applies with intermediate.

God only knows what will come out of the meeting tonight.

Fingers crossed it stays as it is.

[theskull1]

Personally I thought the proposals for a 10 team two way league would be much better from a Div 1 hurling perspective. From my limited knowledge of the proposed lower leagues, they looked fairly well balanced as well. Someone can tell me different

[Last Man]

Here's the clubs in the order in which they finished last year. I think splitting back into 4 Divisions gives you better balanced leagues. You cab argue about shifting clubs about between the Divisions - for example Glenarm in Div 1 and Rossa in Div 2 - but overall I think this looks like a better set up.

Div 1
Loughgiel Shamrocks
Dunloy
Portaferry
Cushendall
Ballygalget
Ballycastle
Glenariff
St. Johns
St. Galls
Ballycran
Rossa

Div 2
Lamh Dhearg
Sarsfields
Shane O Neills
Gort Na Mona
Gaeil Chluana
Glenravel
Carey Faughs
Tir na Nog
Cushendun
St. Pauls

Div 3
Rasharkin
Armoy
Cloughmills
St. Teresas
St. Endas
St. Agnes
Ballymena
Ardoyne

Div 4
Davitts
Bredagh IIs
O Mitchel Og
Larne
St. Pauls IIs
Sarsfields IIs
Creggan Gaels
Na fuiseoig

Just to remind everyone this was Guillem2s suggestion a few weeks back and if all clubs looked at the situation objectively I think they would have to agree this is where we are in terms of grading and these leagues should prove to be competitive which at the end of the day is what it is all about. LD had a proposal at the meeting to go back to the Div 1a and 1b setup we had a few years ago which is plainly aiming to ensure that they maintain Div 1 status where it has been shown this year that they cant cut it. They probably fear an exodus of their better players down to the Shaw's or Whiterock Rd. The biggest problem with this that it does not treat the current problem in the current Div 3 which has been a joke this year with the no. of failures to field.

[Glensman]

Not going there again (well ok a little) but Shane ONeills (Glenarm) won division 2 and Cloughmills won division 3 last year - it must be pretty heartbreaking for those two teams if the leagues are changed to see the 4 division format as suggested.
The 4 divisions do look quite well balanced but where is the reward for efforts last year if the carpet is swept away from under them.

Skull - as an outsider your league campaign seemed to help you along the way last year so Division 1 arguably isn't a concern. Most fixtures were fulfilled and you had a few tight games.

Div 2 was quite competitive with a few contenders (Cloney, Randalstown) before Glenarm won it.
Div 3 any one of St Theresa's, Ardoyne, St Enda's, Cloughmills or Ballymena could have won it.

Division 3 (old) Division 4 (newly suggested) will always have issues - some of those teams barely have teams and are not great at fulfilling fixtures. It will be the same problem whether as Div 3 or Div 4. Now I am not degrading any of the teams concerned in the slightest - its just fact. For the relatively progressive clubs in that sector (Larne to name one) its also a step back to not have better teams to aspire to play - the St Theresa's, Ardoyne, St Enda's, Cloughmills or Ballymena or this world.

I'd be interested to see what North Antrim Coaster thinks of how this would affect Larne.

[theskull1]

I agree that the likes of Glenarm would be pretty pissed if the leagues have been changed (has anybody heard anything yet?). It would be a great headline for the club for them to say that they had made it into Div 1. But I do feel that on current standards that they wouldn't benefit in the medium term from going up into a 13 team Div 1 league. I think they would find (as have others) it very demoralising after a very short time. Much better for them IMO to push on against the teams who may come back down into Div 2 and try and compete with those teams first. If they keep pushing and developing then there is no reason that they could make it into Div 1 in the next few years only at that stage they would be in a better position to compete.

[Craigyhill Terror]

Not going there again (well ok a little) but Shane ONeills (Glenarm) won division 2 and Cloughmills won division 3 last year - it must be pretty heartbreaking for those two teams if the leagues are changed to see the 4 division format as suggested.
The 4 divisions do look quite well balanced but where is the reward for efforts last year if the carpet is swept away from under them.

Skull - as an outsider your league campaign seemed to help you along the way last year so Division 1 arguably isn't a concern. Most fixtures were fulfilled and you had a few tight games.

Div 2 was quite competitive with a few contenders (Cloney, Randalstown) before Glenarm won it.
Div 3 any one of St Theresa's, Ardoyne, St Enda's, Cloughmills or Ballymena could have won it.

Division 3 (old) Division 4 (newly suggested) will always have issues - some of those teams barely have teams and are not great at fulfilling fixtures. It will be the same problem whether as Div 3 or Div 4. Now I am not degrading any of the teams concerned in the slightest - its just fact. For the relatively progressive clubs in that sector (Larne to name one) its also a step back to not have better teams to aspire to play - the St Theresa's, Ardoyne, St Enda's, Cloughmills or Ballymena or this world.

I'd be interested to see what North Antrim Coaster thinks of how this would affect Larne.

You make a fair point but one of the biggest problems in recent years have been the constant tinkering with the Leagues. A few years ago we (Larne) had one of our best League seasons in years, a few dropped points that really shouldn't have been dropped kept us out of the play-offs. We had a team meeting at the start of January and the resolve was to build on that and make a real promotion push.
Then the Leagues were changed and our goal became mid-table because a pile of teams out of our league at that stage were brought into the equation. The following season didn't go well. Things picked up last year and the make-up of our team now, heavily weighted towards youth, would benefit from being in a genuine Division Four, one we can win (though it's not just about being able to say we're Division Four champions and pick up points from teams not fielding) so we can earn our way towards playing the better teams you mention, a few of whom we'll probably be playing in the Championship and North Antrim competitions anyway.

[Last Man]

Cloughmills and Glenarm may feel agrieved if these proposals are accepted but what's the point of taking promotion into a division that they will not compete in. Glenarm have made powerful advances over the last 5 years and credit to them but I don't think they will make any impact in Div 1 just yet. Likewise C'mills were very consistent all year and carrying top form into the championship but were put to the sword by Armoy,who were bottom of Div2. We cant leave things for another year, action needs to be taken now and as much as I feel a little sorry for clubs wanting to take their promotion this should not take precidence over getting the competitive bite back into Antrim Hurling at all levels.

[podge]

We cant leave things for another year, action needs to be taken now and as much as I feel a little sorry for clubs wanting to take their promotion this should not take precidence over getting the competitive bite back into Antrim Hurling at all levels.

This crazy notion that somehow any of the changes proposed will suddenly 'get the bite back in Antrim Hurling' baffles me.  None of the proposals that I have heard will suddenly produce more competitive leagues and in fact some of those that I have heard do the exact opposite.

Yes, change may be needed but it needs to be done in a way thats fair and reasonable.

As has been said on here before, to improve standards in Antrim, we need to look at the quality of coaching as well.  Lets not hide behind our league structures and use them as the sole excuse for our failings.

[theskull1]

As has been said on here before, to improve standards in Antrim, we need to look at the quality of coaching as well.  Lets not hide behind our league structures and use them as the sole excuse for our failings.

100% agree with that podge. Improved levels of coaching comes before league structures.

[Baile an tuaigh]

It is probably best for Antrim Hurling leagues if we "seed" teams. Clubs that have earned the right for promotion, could be asked do they want to be promoted. Are they ready for promotion. There is no point moving up a division if your going to get thrashed in every game. It only has the reverse effect where you might actually see players not taking much interest in the game due to making littel or no progress.

The problem with Antrim Hurling is there is such a massive difference between the top tier and the middle tier. Example in Tipperary an intermediate club would give most any of there senior clubs a good run for there money. Also we have small number of teams to begin with. My view is just seed teams where competitions are competitive in each division, also you then wouldn't need exact number of teams in each division. Just a wee bit of common sense.

[Last Man]

Surely theres more work being done on coaching now than theres ever been, but this will take a few years to allow coaches to cut their teeth a few grades down before feeling confident to step up for the senior jobs. The league structures need ammended now though so teams and inexperienced coaches won't continue to punch above their weight. There is no gain for any team giving out or receiving a tanking.

[podge]

The league structures need amended now though so teams and inexperienced coaches won't continue to punch above their weight. There is no gain for any team giving out or receiving a tanking.

and which restructuring option is it that magically solves those two issues you have mentioned? 

this myth that constantly restructuring leagues (and ambushing teams in the process) will magically cure a lot of problems in the standard of our games and coaches needs to be dispelled. 

As an example- as far as I  can make out, Div 2 was a reasonably competitive league last year. so what happens- the tinkermen decide to relegate 4 or 5 teams out of it- 4 teams who just happen to be the 4 finalists in the IHC and JHC!  so we now have a div 1 league that hasn;t actually changes that much at all, a new div 2 league and a new div 3 league where even more 'tankings' will be handed out.  get a grip.

all these proposals are tinkering at the edges.  they are not going to change anything substantially in a year and should not be pushed through at the cost of disenfranchising several clubs

[Last Man]

"at the cost of disenfranchising several clubs". I sorry fella but what are the costs of disenfranchising a few clubs versus the benefits of a league structure that is representative of where the standard of hurling is at the moment. Who is going to be tanking who in Div.2 and 3, arguably Ardoyne might be up against it in Div.3 but I think they just shade it to be there (hypothetically speaking of course).
You have to look beyond your own back yard, you have your own self serving agenda which in the long term serves no-one.

[milltown row]

Joining in on this debate. With maybe league structures changing this season. For any of the big teams going down it should have no real bearing as if they are as good as they say they are they will I'm sure be back in division one the following season. A bit of humble pie killed no one, and the likes of Rossa who failed to put any effort into the league, well they'll not make that mistake again. We put the league as priority, as the only way we can develop is by playing and staying in the top flight. Winning games of the big teams or coming away with narrow losses or draws give us belief for the following season.   

Waiting to see document sent to clubs for debate. New changes to championship are there as well